CC is this a good thing or bad thing? You decide.

While I was getting my oil changed on my boat and saw this ad in the waiting area in this months Boating Industry mag.(sorry camera phone pic)Are they expanding or loosing dealers?

hmmm interesting

considering they just completed a new factory that will double production one could possibly assume they are trying to expand. But that is just me.

Brad,

This is a TOTAL play on words from CC! Yes they have a larger facilty capable of producing more boats. That does not mean that they are. If you have access to CC growth over that last couple of years, the ONLY place that CC pulls in market share is in the Orlando and outreaching FL market...thats IT!

The reason is the distribution point is OWNED by the factory. They discount boats like crazy over there. MC, Malibu and others do a great job, an AWESOME job of dealing with the crap that CC puts out over there. No other market has access to this kind of marketing that the Orlando area has. CC does not want to loose share in there own back yard, that is why they do that. Every other US market CC is down... WAY DOWN.

Now back to the factory... CC new factory is nothing special. Just a NEW pretty building that houses all there antiquated boat building equipment from the OLD factory. As a matter of fact OSHA would not let them move all there equipment because it was TO OLD. CC lost many of its good factory employees when they moved because they felt it was to far to drive for the same wages. Wake up everyone. They arn't building there new boats any different than the old ones. They build a good boat no dought about that. Just nothing new from them in YEARS.

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quote:

They arn't building there new boats any different than the old ones. They build a good boat no dought about that. Just nothing new from them in YEARS.

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Finally some good news about a boat manufacturer!!

Actually one of the highest volume dealers for CC is in Southern California. So TK I would be interested where you got your facts. I do a majority of my research on Bloomberg database. As well Moody's ratings of asset backed companies. Although they are a private company, if you have ever done any kind of corporate loan then Moody's will have an analyst review all aspects of the company. I do know that several of your facts are far off. I will leave it at that.

Come on Erik... don't be that way! Erik are you saying that CC uses "new" technology to build boats and that they aren't the same quality they used to be??? Say it ain't so...

TK,

Do your fists get sore from pounding them on the keyboard all day?

Over the past years Bayliner owns the market share of just about every area in the U.S. except Orlando and that would belong to Correct Craft.

Bochepas what ?? ^^^^^^^ where did erik say anything about technology. No more shrooms for you.

...and Erik you say Southern Ca. is "one" of the highest volume dealers ? Then who is "the highest" dealer, not "one" of the highest. Make sure there isnt a difference between a CC dealer and a CC owned distibrution sales center when you talk to Mr Moody . They both sell boats just one isnt held by the short hairs to sell boats at no less than 18% above cost, or risk losing their franchise.


p.s. I do think CC is a well made boat just a little boring in todays market.

Before I right this I would like to say that I'm not and never have been a CC owner; I don't like or dislike them. My comments are from a completely independent perspective when concerning CC.

I think all boat manufacturers are or will be loosing business over the next 3 - 5 years, and already have planned to reduce production. Wakeboard boat manufacturers had a good 5 year run; all industries have their business cycle peaks and valleys. Any smart manufacture is investing all that profit now into infrastructure, so they are ahead of the curve for the next boom in boat production. Investing now also lowers the potential higher cost of future infrastructure, and most importantly lowers taxable revenue right now.

IMO - That ad says they are preparing for hard times. If everything was great, then the dealers would be coming to them; no need for dealer advertising. CC is probably already loosing a few dealers, and are planning to loose some more over the next few years. There are always poeple who will think they can run a dealership better than the last guy. I highly doubt that CC accepts new dealers in just any market. A dealer who fails looks bad on the manufacturer, and depreciates the perceived value of their boats; wether its due to dealer financial errors, or a market that could not sustain. By acquiring new dealer requests now, CC has a better chance at keeping markets open that would have been lost due to a failing dealer; they also potentially find a market that would work for a new dealer.

2008 is going to be a tough year, and expensive lesson for the boat manufacturers who are not prepared. After the upcoming boat shows this year I think you will find many manufacturers in a panic mode to move boats. 2008 will be a buyers boat market. Unfortunately all the people who have newer boats will find that their boat took a huge hit in depreciation.

I also feel that the boat manufactures need a reality check. An example: A 2002 Supra Launch 22SSV fully loaded sold new for less than $40,000 now a 2008 SSV sales for over $60,000. This price jump just does not make sense. I have not done the math, but I would guess that the price difference is probably at least 3 times inflation.

Thanks,

Ken Land
Bullet Lines
www.bulletlines.com

Good post ken, that is an interesting point of view never though of it that way. Boat prices have been steadily going up, just because they can I think. We'll see what happens this year with the high gas prices and all.

I agree that prices seem pretty high these days, but the comparison of an '02 SSV to an '08 22SSV leaves out a few relevant points. I own and '02 and have ridden in and behind an '07. There is a difference in size and a significant difference in content. I'm not saying the upgraded content and higher manufacturing costs account for all the price increase, but there's a big enough difference in features and value to make this an "apples to oranges" comparison.

Jeff,

I can see that argument about that boat.

What happened to decent wakeboard boats in the $30,000 - $40,000 range? they are practically non existent.

I have seen more and more threads on here complain about high boat prices over the last few years, and if the manufacturers dont take notice, there will be a costly lesson learned. There is one thing I know about a free market economy, and that is were there is an opening, someone will take advantage of it. Yamaha is making a move on the wakeboard boat industry; they make a 23' wakeboard boat for MSRP $38,999.00; I know its not an inboard, but I gaurantee a big name like that could make an inboard for not much more... Its going to happen. I'm not sure why Toyota stopped making the Epic because if they mass produced a version of that boat today, and put some money into marketing, Toyota would clean house.

Thanks,

Ken Land
Bullet Lines
www.bulletlines.com

One major manufacturer rep told me that boat prices have sky rocketed because they can sell every boat they can make at that price. Why should they make a lower priced boat when they can sell a higher priced boat and make more money? You can sell a ton of lower priced boats but if you have a good company image you then have to warranty those boats which costs the manufacturer money. Therefore the "free market" says sell less boats at a higher price and make more money and have less boats to warranty.

BTW, I know that one of the Hammers closed shop.

Planet Nautique Thread on Hammers

02 SSV and 08 SSV is a totally different boat. You will see 08 22SSV's going for around $55 about boat shows.

Ken,
kinda like ski and wakeboard ropes/handles. since when is 70ft of rope and a handle worth over a $200 bucks? What happened to the $30-$40 dollar set ups? They are pratically non existent. Even if you call them old school handles they sure arent old school priced.

Dont get me wrong I think everything has gotten overpriced. Things are better, higher quality, new technology etc. Is it as much though as we are paying for things?

(Message edited by woreout on January 08, 2008)

(Message edited by woreout on January 08, 2008)

CC seems to be doing fine so far with the first round of boat shows.

http://www.wakeworld.com/getarticle.asp?articleid=1474

Thank you Billy...glad you pointed that out.

Stones and glass houses Ken.

(Message edited by mikel on January 08, 2008)

that there is a press release....
"it must be true....i saw it on tv"

With the housing market falling, all leisure/recreation items will fall too, and every boat, RV, ATV, etc. mfg/dealer knows this. Nobody can justify spending $60,000 on a boat this year if their house lost most, all or more than the equity it had; and no sight of anything changing in 2008. And for those that don't have a house should probably spend their money on getting one rather than buying a new $60K boat. I know this isn't always the case, being that I have seen several boats that park on the street in front of an apartment complex (thumbs up to them for their commitment) but logic would say that's a bad idea. CC is preparing for the storm and a press release put out by CC is never going to read: "we really suck this year in sales".

(Message edited by pnizzlefoshisel on January 08, 2008)

It's an interesting proposition to consider, that the commanding prices on inboards combined with "the economy" are going to collapse on the big inboard mfrs in the near term.

But the so-called housing crisis affects primarily subprime borrowers - they are NOT the demographic for the inboard boat market.

I agree that inboard price increases on the order of 8% are not sustainable. Small correction maybe, rate of increase probably will slow. It takes a lot of investment to start up a boat company. Even discounting startup - consider an existing mfr of runabouts. Engineering a hull that provides satisfactory wake characteristics for this discriminating crowd is no small feat. Even the major inboard companies have rolled out boats that didn't live up to expectations and ended up being replaced. Look at all the smaller companies making inboards that have remained small - its a tough niche.

At worst, we might see some adjustments of market share between the 5-7 top builders in this segment. The builders who go conservative on pricing may reap the benefit. My $0.02, it's worth what you just paid for it.

Please remember I started my comment about CC as "In My Opinion". I made my opinion on my business back ground and it is truly an educated guess. I do not want to offend anyone here...

Billy,

I dont see your point about ropes and handles... A basic raw 12 strand Spectra rope back in 1998 and 1999 was $100. We sell both our spectra coated ropes and spectra core ropes for $79.99 today. Our coated and core ropes will out perform and out last a raw Spectra rope any day, and we sell them for less. A spectra EVA grip handle with wrap sold for about $90.00 back in 98 and 99, we sell our new spectra EVA old school handle for $64.99. Rope and Handle technology today is much better than 10 years ago, and it is sold for less...

$30 and $40 setups were made with poly e 10 years ago, and you can go to any Walmart and purchase a Airhead Poly E wakeboard rope and handle for under $30.00 today. Bullet Lines will be retailing a Poly E rope with 15" handle combo for $39.99 this season. Bullet Lines will also be selling a raw spectra rope with 15" EVA handle retail for $49.99 this season; I dont think there has ever been a spectra rope and handle combo with a MSRP under $50.00.

Mike...My house is made of steel...

Professional Regards,

Ken Land
Bullet Lines
www.bulletlines.com

coldlake-
I generally agree sub prime is not the demographic but nothing was said regarding lending options for prime or sub prime borrowers, it's the declining home values/equity/cushion that will "bring a storm" not collapse the industry. A rebound will obviously happen eventually but I don't see 2008 as the year for it.

It's an interesting proposition to consider, that the commanding prices on inboards combined with "the economy" are going to collapse on the big inboard mfrs in the near term.

But the so-called housing crisis affects primarily subprime borrowers - they are NOT the demographic for the inboard boat market.

I agree that inboard price increases on the order of 8% are not sustainable. Small correction maybe, rate of increase probably will slow. It takes a lot of investment to start up a boat company. Even discounting startup - consider an existing mfr of runabouts. Engineering a hull that provides satisfactory wake characteristics for this discriminating crowd is no small feat. Even the major inboard companies have rolled out boats that didn't live up to expectations and ended up being replaced. Look at all the smaller companies making inboards that have remained small - its a tough niche.

At worst, we might see some adjustments of market share between the 5-7 top builders in this segment. The builders who go conservative on pricing may reap the benefit. My $0.02, it's worth what you just paid for it.

I truly believe there is a direct corelation between our housing market, general economy, and luxury expenditures (boats are luxury items). One of the first things economists look at in determining the health of an economy is luxury spending. The hardest hit demographic of the housing crisis are middle - upper middle class, which who I believe is the inboard market's true target audience. Here in the Hill Country West of Austin Texas an upper middle class neighborhood has homes ranging from $300,000 - $500,000; I see and here about the homes in this price range selling for way less than what the owner is asking for, and I here all the time about owners willing to do contract for deed... All this tells me is that the upper middle class is strapped for cash right now.

Thanks,

Ken

The economy is going to be just fine... better than fine, in fact. There's a clearance sale on houses! What could be better than that

could it be they are trying to expand their network? With a new plant, maybe they want to build moreboats. OF

correct craft should learn how to make a boat with a good wake without having to add 4000 lbs of ballast before worrying about more dealers and crap. they redesigned the 210 and the wake got worse imo. the old 210 required minimal additional weight and the new one needs to be sacked out.

billy e, Correct Craft wakes are just fine with minimal weight, unless you're planning on going pro soon, or you just want to bust up all your joints before you're even old enough to drink in which case you're going to add huge amounts of weight regardless...

I feel they are looking for "new" and improved dealers, to enhance their coverage and quality throughout the nation. In certain areas, they are picking up new dealers who promise better customer service and maintenance. Didn't MC do this a couple years ago, a restructuring and evaluation of their dealers? Taking a look at who their dealers are and how they represent the brand, thats what companies are becoming overly concerned with these days.

The housing market will affect buying of boats. I think a lot of folks who own a house and want to get a boat will tap their equity line of credit to do so since the loan rate is usually so much lower than a traditional boat loan. Also you get tax benefits from it. If their equity in their house goes away then that will in turn affect how many boat buyers are out there.