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Join Date: Feb 2009
03-23-2010, 6:17 AM
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Began work on some additions for this year,
Here is last years build : http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/672900.html?1240599090
This is the list for this year:
- Upgrade Ballast System
- Install Perfect Pass
- Add Bow Cleat
- Relocate secondary battery and SurePower isolator
- Replace Bilge Pump
- Replace Depth Finder
- Run larger gauge power line from batteries to fuse panel under dash
- Media blast and powder coat vents and pylon bezel
Ballast
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Last season we had a set of V-drive sacs, a cheap ski locker sac, and a bow sac. The ski and bow were filled manually, while the v-drive sacs were filled but the stock pump system, one 800 Tsunami to fill both and one to empty both...boo
So its time for a well needed upgrade. Went through a bunch of designs and decided on sticking with aerator pumps. The bang for the buck is just too hard to pass up. I know everyone swears by jabscos but i still havent been sold on the cost and cost to replace.
So here is the plan
(2) 750's in the rear compartments
(1) V-drive sac in the ski locker
(1) Bow sac
Here is the layout
and the connection diagram
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Join Date: Feb 2009
03-23-2010, 6:46 AM
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First thing was to work on the fill manifolds
Here is the ski locker before cutting down pump inlets and chopping down thru hull
Here is the rear manifold using existing stock brackets.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
03-23-2010, 7:29 AM
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Sweet project. Two considerations that I see. The first is that your flow going into the sacks through a 1inch line is going to be greater than your overflow exiting through a 3/4 inch line. Never a problem unless someone forgets to turn the pumps off once the bags are full. The bags could overfill and burst. This is very unlikely however. The second thing is that the manifolds you are using are the same size as the diameter of the pumps. This will slow down your fill time because only so much water can flow through a one inch tube. Probably not an issue but I could see the pumps competing for the same water. The first pump will probably fill faster than the second.
Good luck with your install. You'll love that extra weight. Do you know how much weight you'll actually be able to fit into that bow sack?
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Join Date: Feb 2009
03-23-2010, 7:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mofreestyle
The first is that your flow going into the sacks through a 1inch line is going to be greater than your overflow exiting through a 3/4 inch line. Never a problem unless someone forgets to turn the pumps off once the bags are full. The bags could overfill and burst. This is very unlikely however.?
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3/4 has a flow rating of 2200 GPH
1 inch is ~3400 GPH
a 1200 pump with a 3/4 vent will be fine
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Join Date: Feb 2009
03-23-2010, 7:55 AM
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Thanks Mark, i have considered both those.
As for bursting the bags it really isnt possible, even in a ideal work that the pumps could actually pump 1200GPH it couldnt exceed the flow rate of a 3/4" dia hose. Also there is going to be a head loss as well with the pumps. With a 3' head flow drops to ~900GPH with the 1200 pumps.
As for the starvation issue the flow rates of 1" dia should be able to sufficiently feed both pump and the difference in fill rate should be very marginal if any.
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Join Date: Feb 2009
03-24-2010, 5:13 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2002
03-24-2010, 8:50 AM
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How come you are using a v-drive sac in the ski locker and not the rear seat sac or a custom sac? You wont be able to fill the v-drive sac to the full 400lbs. Im guessing my locker sac holds ~800lbs and that is ideal. With 750's in the back youre going to have twice as much weight back there as you did before.
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Join Date: Feb 2009
03-24-2010, 8:55 AM
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Well we had the vdrive sacs, and we wont be filling the 750's all the way except for surfing. We played with weighting last season and it dialed in well. If we decide we want more ski locker weight we can just swap it in.
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Join Date: Jun 2004
03-24-2010, 12:32 PM
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Great looking install. Would it be possible to compile a list of the part numbers used?
thank you!
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Join Date: Aug 2002
03-24-2010, 5:46 PM
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Ryan, I'm not really up to speed on ballast systems, but I was wondering why your locker and bow bags have check valves on the way out, but your rear bags don't. Why is this?
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Join Date: Feb 2009
03-25-2010, 5:29 AM
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Tony thats actually a good question. The reasoning behind that is the way the joins are going to be setup on the rear sacs. Going to loop the vent over the exhaust line, and with diameter drop we are expecting to not need a check valve. Going to test w/o check valve, if it doesnt work we will add on to each side of the rear vents.
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Join Date: Aug 2002
03-25-2010, 7:00 AM
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Cool, thanks for the explanation. Makes sense. I'm going to PM you about another (unrelated) question...
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Join Date: Feb 2009
03-29-2010, 6:42 AM
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Received a few things in the mail over the weekend
Tamiya R/C Battery connectors used for quick connectors for the pumps
1" 90 thru hulls for empty lines
In-line fuses for relocating SurePower and secondary battery
and a Attwood popup cleat for the bow.
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Join Date: Feb 2009
03-29-2010, 6:53 AM
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Perfect pass is installed
Had to cut dash to accept new gauge.
Servo and throttle cable installed
paddle wheel installed
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Join Date: Feb 2009
03-29-2010, 7:04 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2009
03-29-2010, 7:16 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2002
03-29-2010, 3:22 PM
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Be careful with that helix tubing, the stuff cracks pretty easily. Both of my vent tubes on my locker sacs cracked in about a year.
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Join Date: Feb 2009
03-29-2010, 4:43 PM
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really? there is helix tube from factory that is still fine. The trident stuff is a pvc helix and seems super durable and un-kinkable. What kind did you get?
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Join Date: Sep 2002
03-29-2010, 7:31 PM
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yeah I thought the same thing. I think it is because the vent hoses in the back compartments move around so much. Both cracked right where they went on the barb of the outlet. It just made me nervous to have them around my stereo and electrical stuff in the front. I keep checking those and they seem ok.
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Join Date: Feb 2006
03-31-2010, 8:51 PM
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Nice project, I am doing much of the same things to my 2000 SAN. In the pictures from last years thread, where does the black wire that was beside the port hard tank hook to? Mine is just laying under the motor. http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/m...921/675004.jpg
Thanks.
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Join Date: Sep 2002
03-31-2010, 10:02 PM
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That looks like a ground to me.
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Join Date: Feb 2009
04-01-2010, 4:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seth
That looks like a ground to me.
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Correct, It grounds to the starter motor.
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Join Date: Apr 2002
04-02-2010, 12:12 PM
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Ryan, Great looking boat and work. I have the same boat. I am curious about how you will wire in all the pumps so that you can use the stock keypad to fill/empty. I tried running just 2 pumps off of one breaker and it will trip every once in awhile.
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Join Date: Feb 2009
04-02-2010, 9:22 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2009
04-02-2010, 9:27 PM
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daniel, i'm sure my pictures answered you question, not using the original switches, all new mounted on starboard panel
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Join Date: Apr 2002
04-03-2010, 4:40 AM
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Thanks, Boat looks great, You really did it right. Let us know how the wake is with all that weight!
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Join Date: Mar 2010
04-04-2010, 7:01 PM
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Where did u find the paddle wheel perfectpass and what was the pricing? On the perfect pass website I only see the stargazer system available. I have an 01 super air also and will be installing. CAn u elaborate on the guage installation? U said it was too large for the factory hole?
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Join Date: Feb 2009
04-04-2010, 7:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superair502
Where did u find the paddle wheel perfectpass and what was the pricing? On the perfect pass website I only see the stargazer system available. I have an 01 super air also and will be installing. CAn u elaborate on the guage installation? U said it was too large for the factory hole?
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We bought the module from a member on here and then pieced the rest of it. Ended up saving quite a bit of money that way. We got all of the parts from Skier to Skier. dave@skiertoskier.com
Our dash had the Nautique logo in the center between the speedo and tach and figured it was just a dummy panel but it ended up being a sticker so Ryan had to dremel a hole for it to fit.
You could just replace the stock speedo if you don't want to do cutting.
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Join Date: Mar 2010
04-05-2010, 5:24 PM
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Yea I will prolly do that, I dont really want the stargazer system since I do alot of riding on the river as well and I heard its not very accurate in current. What was the total price on the ballast setup if you dont mind me asking? Im thinking I may follow your diagram and thread and set it up the same since I was planning on the exact same sacs and placement you decided to go with with the exception of a larger ski locker sack.
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Join Date: Feb 2009
04-05-2010, 6:55 PM
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Mason i will post a parts list and you can price it out yourself, but obviously the bags are half of the cost.
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Join Date: Sep 2007
04-11-2010, 3:14 PM
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I mimicked your setup to a T and I had some self filling issues. The only difference I have is I kept my scoop through hulls, except I cut the scoops off and kept the base. Have you had any issues at all?
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Join Date: Jan 2010
04-12-2010, 6:01 AM
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lots of good information in here
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Join Date: Mar 2007
04-12-2010, 6:11 AM
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Great job! .... looks amazing
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Join Date: Apr 2010
04-14-2010, 6:51 AM
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im not brave enough to cut thru my hull
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Join Date: Aug 2006
04-14-2010, 7:11 AM
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Damn dude your gonna have 3k in ballast if those sacks fill to full. I'm interested to see the wake with that much weight.
Excellent job on redoing this one your skills show.
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Join Date: Feb 2009
04-14-2010, 12:10 PM
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I will get final pics and wake pics up soon, still waiting on a back ordered switch. Did do a full pulls last week, the fill worked great, but did notice it wouldnt be a bad idea to run check valves on the vdrive vents for more efficiency. Will put them on this week and i'll snap some pictures
Perfect pass worked perfect right out of the box, have only used it twice now, but dont know how we lived without it already
Pete, we were very nervous to cut holes in the hull, but once you do you first one and get everything glued in all that anxiety goes away. When i was all said and done, we drilled 2 new holes and enlarged 3.
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Join Date: Nov 2009
04-15-2010, 6:35 AM
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monoprice rcas?
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Join Date: May 2005
04-15-2010, 6:39 AM
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Couple of q's for you Ryan,
When you cut down the through hull did you have any problems with the threads seating in the valve?
Where would one find that 4 switch panel you put it your dash.
Great mods btw. Looks neat and clean.
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Join Date: Feb 2009
04-15-2010, 7:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy
monoprice rcas?
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yup
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Join Date: Feb 2009
04-15-2010, 7:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newty
Couple of q's for you Ryan,
When you cut down the through hull did you have any problems with the threads seating in the valve?
Where would one find that 4 switch panel you put it your dash.
Great mods btw. Looks neat and clean.
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after cutting the thru hull i had to de-bur and grind it a little, but after that it threaded on perfect.
as for the switch panel, the switches are Carling rockers, and the bezel can be found at west marine (2 center and 2 ends) http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...classNum=14711
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Join Date: Feb 2009
04-15-2010, 8:31 AM
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The ski locker will auto-fill some if the valve is open since this sits lowest below the water line. I knew this during construction, thus the positioning of the ball valve, which i can reach from drivers seat. We fill the ski locker bag all the way every time so just need to close when emptying or cruising. Vdrive sacs are higher and you dont see this.
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Join Date: May 2005
04-15-2010, 8:32 AM
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Perfect! Thanks brutha.
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Join Date: Mar 2007
04-15-2010, 2:56 PM
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Those carling bezels can be purchased from genuinedealz on ebay for under $2 shipped.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mount...r#ht_773wt_786
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Join Date: Mar 2008
04-16-2010, 6:02 AM
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Strong work
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Join Date: Mar 2010
04-23-2010, 8:53 PM
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wake pics? How many feet of tubing did you need total?
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Join Date: Mar 2007
04-26-2010, 7:48 AM
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I bought 20' of 1" when I did my bags and had about 4' left over. I only did 2 rear sacs.
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Join Date: Aug 2007
05-23-2010, 6:48 PM
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Why the shut off valves on the overflow lines? Also, will this fill while underway if you don't shut off the intake?
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Join Date: Feb 2009
05-24-2010, 4:18 AM
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We were going to add a shut off valve on the surf side rear bag so we could fill it completely and not have any be forced out but never actually installed it. We can get the bag to fill and only lose a little bit of water under acceleration.
Rear bags do not autofill but the ski locker does due to it being below the waterline.
The only valve we have to keep closed is the one in the ski locker when we don't want it to fill.
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Join Date: Aug 2007
05-28-2010, 5:21 PM
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Any estimate on the total feet of hose you used?
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Join Date: Mar 2007
06-01-2010, 8:32 AM
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Fantastic post!!!
A simple question on the aerator pumps. These MUST be below the water line to prime and work correct?
Thanks!
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Join Date: Feb 2009
06-01-2010, 8:34 AM
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John we ordered 50' of 3/4 and 1"
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Join Date: Feb 2009
06-01-2010, 8:35 AM
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Matt, yes the pumps must be below the water line
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Join Date: Aug 2007
06-06-2010, 7:59 PM
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Are two pumps on the bow sac a must?
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Join Date: Feb 2009
06-06-2010, 8:30 PM
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Jon, do u mean 2 empty pumps? I think just because the orientation of the fingers of the bow sac having only one empty pump might not be able to remove all the water in the opposite finger.
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Join Date: Sep 2009
07-06-2010, 7:35 PM
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How significant is the change in wake with the new sacks?
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Join Date: Sep 2009
07-06-2010, 7:38 PM
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At this point is there anything you wish you would have done differently?
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Join Date: Feb 2009
07-08-2010, 7:40 AM
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Sorry since the weather has been so nice i havent completed this thread. The wake came out awesome! II would not change one think about the wake. Iwill ry to g some pics. As for the design there really isnt anything i would change. For some reason the starbord vdrive empty pump doesnt always work w/o pulling on the bag, but it is probably just binding up somewhere. 1 last thing that didnt work out, is the R/C pump connectors, they will rot out so just used butt connectors and tape. I'll try to finish tis thread soon.
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Join Date: Feb 2009
05-27-2011, 8:37 AM
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Join Date: May 2010
05-27-2011, 8:56 AM
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I'm using the 800 GPH Tsunamis and went with individual 3/4" thru hulls for each intake pump and have had no priming issues so far.
I also used these fittings from Flow Rite to eliminate the 90s coming off of the pumps in all but one pumps (Starboard bow sac drain) and it gives you a quick disconnect:
https://www.flow-rite.com/product/ad...ht-pipe-thread
Those won't work on the 1200 though.
Before I was getting 12-13 minute fill times on the 750s. We will see if the lack of 90s improves fill time any.
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Join Date: May 2010
05-27-2011, 9:01 AM
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Oh, are the ball valves on your vent/drain to keep the bags from emptying? I'm assuming that because some of your thru hulls are really low. You may have already considered this but but you could eliminate those by putting in a vented loop and mounting it higher than the top of the bag. It might have a little bit of an affect on your drain times but would save you the time/effort of opening and closing the valves.
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Join Date: Feb 2009
05-27-2011, 10:15 AM
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Hey Jeff, we just have the ball valve on the surf side so that we can really expand the bag to get as much weight as possible when we surf.
Normally the bag fills up "most of the way" and water starts to come out through the drain.
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Join Date: Jan 2010
05-29-2011, 3:39 PM
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where's the wake pics??? can't get enough slammed wake pics from the super sport/super air!
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Join Date: Mar 2010
05-29-2011, 7:22 PM
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here you go this is my 01 210 with about 2500 lbs. Normally I run about 3300 but the guy in the pic had never ridden a loaded down wakeboat and was a little nervous about all that weight. I think he is like 6 foot 1. I normally run this
750x2 in each rear compartment
1100 Supra gravity games sack as full as it will get in the locker
650(?) Integrated bow sack
and another 400 sack in the nose
total the way I fill it is usually close to 3200 lbs
I ran the same setup as this guy and pretty much followed his diagram.
All the sacks fill in about 6 minutes
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Join Date: Apr 2008
05-29-2011, 8:36 PM
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Damn Ryan nice job.How did your engine compartment panels turn out?
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Join Date: Jul 2008
06-01-2011, 7:04 AM
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Here is a pic of the wake from the side. Super steep and large.
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Join Date: Jul 2008
06-01-2011, 7:06 AM
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One more of just the boat -
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Join Date: Jun 2004
06-01-2011, 8:37 PM
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I just bought a 2003 SAN LE and will be doing a lot of similiar mods to the ballast.
Just read through your thread from last year. Really wish I had the garage to take everything apart like you did for the interior to redo the crappy speakers and clean the crap out of everything. Everything you have done is so clean! Love it just cant wait to do similar projects myself.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
02-20-2012, 10:10 AM
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Sorry to bring up an older thread, but what prop do you use with all that weight?
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Join Date: Apr 2011
02-20-2012, 11:07 AM
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Acme 644 is what his profile says.
Ryan- Did you have to cut the cooler out on the starboard side of the bow?
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Join Date: Jun 2004
02-20-2012, 11:59 AM
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I cut that thing out about two weeks ago. That stuck major. Good luck with it! I used a dremel and way too much force...
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Join Date: Apr 2011
02-20-2012, 12:13 PM
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something tells me that didn't end well, John...
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Join Date: Jun 2004
02-20-2012, 12:17 PM
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I was able to get it out, but my hands look like I had a cutting obsession... In my 03, there was foam that stabilized the back of the cooler to the interior wall of the seat base. I had to cut that out in 6'' square sections till I just ended up breaking it all out and then cleaned it up....
yes, it sucked...
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Join Date: Feb 2009
02-20-2012, 12:32 PM
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Brett your right we use a 644 Acme, it made a big difference. As for a bow cooler, in a 2001 there is no cooler up front, so now cutting needed.
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Join Date: Dec 2009
02-20-2012, 12:32 PM
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I know this is rather off topic but you guys are discussing your nautiques. Are there any major differences in the SAN 210's from 02 to 05 besides the rainbow tower in 04? I used to hate the SAN's but as I've gotten older I think they are SHARP!! Thanks!
Chase
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NJ
02-20-2012, 3:25 PM
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I would be concerned about that cleat up front. From the pic it doesn't look like you glassed in any new wood underneath. Even if not glassing it in I'd at least want some wood or an aluminum plate underneath to spread the load and clamping force, and prevent damage from horizontal force. Ballast setup looks killer!
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Join Date: Feb 2009
02-20-2012, 3:39 PM
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The front cleat is actually reinforced with a aluminum plate actually, its just not in the pic
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