differnce between pin tail and diamond tail ?

what is the major difference between the pin tail and diamond tail surf boards?

thanks,

mike

How do they ride different? Or How do they look different?

If your asking how they ride different i would say not super different. The reason for points near the tail of the board are to release the water differently. A pin tail uses one point at the very end of the board moving up to the middle with a smooth transition. The diamond has three points. One at very rear and two more just up from that on either side of the board. I would say the extra points on the diamond help release the water fast allowing the board to go faster and turn better.

This is just my educated guess. Anyone else have a view?

The Super Galactic One "07 San Diego Mission bay

LOL - Chip, can't wait for the SG 1 in '07

IMO, the major difference in tails is the width or volume. A wider tail with rocker catches waves easier, because it lifts up with the wave, and provides a quicker plane and start. Narrower tails give more control and holding power especially in steeper waves, but can drag in smaller weaker surf.

The two basic tail shapes are pintails and square tails. Everything else is a variation on these. Round tails, rounded pins, swallow tails and diamond tails are just designs that try to go in between.

People who prefer pintails claim that they get very smooth turns and cutbacks and also much more hold in steeper/hollower and bigger waves. Again pin tails will get in the way on smaller, mushier surf, IMO.

Square, squash, round, rounded pin, pin tails are foremost a progression from most to least tail volume and planing area. The more volume and planing surface you have back there, the more there is to push against to do fast, precision flicky turns. Vice-versa, the less you've got, the more you'll need to turn from the rails.

In laymans terms a diamondtail is slightly more stable (but also a bit more sluggish IMO)then a pintail of the same dimensions.

(Message edited by caskimmer on August 23, 2006)

(Message edited by caskimmer on August 23, 2006)

Imagine water encountering a surfboard. First before it comes into contact with the board it's free to move. Then, bang! It runs into, or is run into, by the board. Friction slows the water's passage beneath, around and past the board (hydrodynamic tests show the water moves slowest halfway along the object with which it's come into contact). Then, as it approaches the tail, the water sniffs freedom. Yesss! It accelerates out and away.

Here's what that tells us: water is moving at its quickest at the beginning and end of its journey past our board. And thus, the board's outline is most like to have its greatest effect on waterflow at those beginning and end points.

Thus! The tail shape is a seriously important piece of the surfboard's overall design.

Here's a very crude series of explanations of the effects of the basic tail shapes on waterflow, and how they affect a board's performance.

a) The SQUARETAIL. Water moves straight off the rail line, which is cut off, boom, just like that. It also moves abruptly straight off the square edge behind the back fin. The squaretail gets rid of a lot of water very quickly, which makes it a very fast tail shape; but since the water's all dumping off a straight edge with no modulation of the flow, the squaretail tends to turn awkwardly in "jumps" from rail to rail, with little subtlety in between. The squaretail also permits a wider tail, preserving volume well behind the forward fins, which helps flotation. WK believes this shape suits a beginner surfer or one who's experimenting with short, wide boards for small waves.

b) The SQUASHTAIL. This is an adapted squaretail, with some of the benefits of quick release and width for flotation, but the rounded curves off the rails provide some subtle modulation in turns. A "tradeoff" tail, well suited to a wide range of surfers in most waves between two and eight feet.

c) The PINTAIL, or round pin. Water moves off the tail and rails in a diffuse fashion, in a wide range of angles. Since it has a lot of options in that nice curve toward the final pin, the water takes more time to break free. Thus the pintail doesn't have the raw acceleration of a square or squashtail, but what it lacks in off-the-mark speed it gains immensely in control and subtlety of turning angles, and the generally narrower immediate tail area fits better into barrels than either square or squash. A common tail shape among elite pros, particularly in surf over six feet.

d) The SWALLOWTAIL. Referred to as a "double pin" by at least one of its pioneers (Bob McTavish), the swallow blends a square's instant rail fall-off with some of the pin's tube-fitting and turning subtlety. Swallows release concave bottoms better than most other tail shapes and also allow a wider tail shape, which makes 'em popular among some high performance surfers in the nitro-small-wave hotdogger range.

e) The DIAMOND is a largely superseded attempt to soften the square's hard edges and preserve some of its release speed. Its job is now done more effectively by the SQUASH.


Pintail :A tail shape in which the two sides of the board come together in smooth curves to form a point. The pintail is a sensitive controlling shape, ideal for powerful hollow surf.

Roundtail:A tail shape in which the two sides of the board come together in smooth curves to form a semicircle. The round tail is a neutral tail shape, not resisting or adding to any turn.

Squaretail:A surfboard tail shape in which the rails end suddenly, forming a box shape; the squaretail floats well and is usually part of a small-wave surfboard design.

Squashtail:A modified squaretail in which the square tips are softened; the squashtail combines squaretail flotation with some of the pintail's sensitivity.

Swallowtail: A tail shape in which the rails end suddenly and a vee is cut back in toward the stringer; the swallowtail combines the rail drive of the squaretail with the sensitivity of the pintail.

Diamond tails aren't widely used anymore.
Board More/Work Less!
J$

(Message edited by surfnfury65 on August 23, 2006)

Diamond tails aren't widely used anymore-in the ocean

I can think of at least 3 companies off the top of my head that use a diamond or modified diamond tail design for at least 1 model-Shoreline, XBC, and Walzer

(Message edited by caskimmer on August 23, 2006)

Jerry Price had a sweet Thresher with a diamond nose that Chase rode, so that when Chase threw a shuv and was riding backwards on the board he'd have some additional stability.

I am going back to the drawing board for a board for me. I sucked this year at the world's and tried to assess my riding style. I can't see without my glasses and so that limits me on things like a 3...I can't see the boat or even the wake when I come around, so...unless I nail it I'm out the back. At 50, I am SSSSOOOO not going to catch any air and that leaves me pretty much just sliding the tail around and riding backside switch to be competitive.

With those restrictions, I think that I'm going back to a square tail combined with a more fish like outline to get that skaty style back.

Jeff, I wear disposable contacts, they cost less than $1 each and I rarely lose one. When I'm done wakeboarding and wakesurfing I just pitch them. Being able to see helps confidence a lot.

Ed, I have NEVER worn contacts, always glasses for...shoot, 30 years now. Lordy, you stick them in your EYE?!?!

I've always said that being able to see WTH you are doing is a HUGE confidence builder.

Well that explains the contact i got stuck in my throat last week.

I checked with my girlfriend on the whole diamond, pintail thing. She still prefers the diamond. Especially the ones that go on her left hand.?!?... what?

Never say never Jeff. Airs are easy (I'm sure James tells you the same thing).

(Message edited by caskimmer on August 23, 2006)

Hey Mike,

I know what has spurred you to ask such a question. I have recently become a fan of diamond tails, and my inspiration was my shaper who suggested I try one and after watching Any Irons ride one in Hunnington Beach, I decided to try it. For wakesurfing, and for surfing small waves in the ocean, a diamond tail releases more than a squash or a pin tail yet has more drive than a fish. I revert to using my diamond tail when the wave is weak because I want the flashy tail slides yet I still want the power drives off the bottom. I use a pin in bigger waves so that I may hold more of an edge and create power two top to bottom turns.

jessica,

yep...your right !!! Thank you everyone for the info !!

(Message edited by clubmyke on August 24, 2006)