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Old     (BurnMac42)      Join Date: May 2015       08-17-2016, 9:30 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
Yep. It isn't the only job killer. It's part of a bigger picture of a time when the model was to tie HC to employment for the benefit of a large part of the population. Back when the burden of giving HC to the poor was smaller. Then when we decided to export the jobs to other countries. The jobs that we previously had that could support HI benefits went away, and so did access to HC for a large part of the population. Two things significantly contributed to the problem. 1) the economics of the govt pushing people into a market, and 2) the diminishing number of people who benefited from the employment/HI policy because those jobs disappeared.
You do also realize high tax rates pushes jobs overseas too.....right?

And robotics has eliminated way more jobs than outsourcing....right? And robotics are actually making outsourcing less attractive...
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       08-17-2016, 9:32 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnMac42 View Post
It would "save" OCO money for sure but again if you think it won't be spent else where you have another thing coming..Congress changes the color of money all the time to suit their pet projects...
I never said I thought it wasn't spent elsewhere. My input reduced the cost of the contract by about $5M. It was awarded to GE for $20. Our cost was $5M lower specifically because of a requirement I put on the design that overrode our company's initial much costlier design decision. We protested over the price difference and the award to GE was overturned and given to us. If it wasn't for me, our company's price would have been much higher and the $20M contract to GE would have been the end of it.

But I'm coming around to your argument. You've never seen anyone in your history at the DOD save the taxpayer anything, so it's safe to assume I didn't as well. Makes sense to me. Same argument I make about God. No one has ever seen him do anything, so it's safe to say he doesn't exist.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       08-17-2016, 9:38 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnMac42 View Post
You do also realize high tax rates pushes jobs overseas too.....right?
I realize pretty much everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnMac42 View Post
And robotics has eliminated way more jobs than outsourcing....right? And robotics are actually making outsourcing less attractive...
You do realize that all of your arguments so far are based on why we shouldn't give a crap if people get HC?

One of the problems with our economy is that we are sending over a $1/2T in the trade deficit alone overseas. Now if we are to go back to elementary level math that only requires addition and subtraction then you would see that (value of economy) - $0.5T annual loss is not going to end well or be sustainable.

Not disputing your claim but I would really like to see the research you've done on job loss by robotics vs importing products from overseas that we previously used to make here.
Old     (BurnMac42)      Join Date: May 2015       08-17-2016, 10:20 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
I realize pretty much everything.

You do realize that all of your arguments so far are based on why we shouldn't give a crap if people get HC?
.
Alright dude....strike 3 on making assumptions and jumping straight to extremes.

Not once have I said "I don't give a crap if people get HC". I have said the USG running HC will NOT be cost effective which is why this entire thread started due to the ACA bleeding into the red and most (probably soon to be all) major HC providers bailing.

I initially stated the ACA was not structured well to begin with and should be re-evaluated as a viable option for HC. You interpreted that as "I don't think people deserve HC"

You then tried to "impress" me by mentioning you worked on AC sims and "saved" $5M....Meh..who cares....because in response to that I still put forth the fact that the USG (along with any major Prime contractor like GE) will waste it else where.

Then lots more drivel, strawman arguments, and jumping to conclusions and extremes....

I'm taking my toys and going to the other sandbox about boats because some of us still have real jobs.....enjoy that SS check I'm sure your cashing every month....Lord knows your generation's decisions royally F'ed ours away

(See what I did there...assumptions and extremes)
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       08-17-2016, 11:10 AM Reply   
LOL. Mission Accomplished. A govt teat sucker chased away. I'm sure that you'll be rejecting your pension and retirement HC benefits that you probably never actually paid a dime for. And yes you are exactly correct in saying that my generation paved the way for f**king up the economy.

Just out of curiosity... does your govt paycheck have a spot where they show deductions from your earnings that you choose to go into your pension and HI? Because on my paycheck (yes, got a "real" job, not sure what the fake ones are. Maybe that's govt jobs) has a spot where I choose yea or nay WRT paying for my HI and retirement savings. Of course I also have the spot where they take some for mandatory retirement savings that you imply I don't deserve to get anything back for.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       08-17-2016, 11:25 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnMac42 View Post
You then tried to "impress" me by mentioning you worked on AC sims and "saved" $5M....Meh..who cares....
Context is everything. This was in response to you trying to impress me by claiming working for the DOD somehow means you understand the economics of HC.
Old     (Laker1234)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-17-2016, 11:26 AM Reply   
Unless Trump can turn his campaign around, looks as though there is a good chance we'll see the public option. Personally, I'd like to see it repealed, if that's possible, and start from scratch.
Old     (Laker1234)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-17-2016, 11:27 AM Reply   
Forgot to post the link http://www.marketwatch.com/video/tru...B8D6CB088.html
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       08-17-2016, 11:29 AM Reply   
Personally what I would like to see is start from scratch, present it to the public as a better alternative, then repeal the ACA at the same time you pass the new HC law. Minor difference, but it makes all the world a difference.
Old     (BurnMac42)      Join Date: May 2015       08-17-2016, 11:39 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
LOL. Mission Accomplished. A govt teat sucker chased away. I'm sure that you'll be rejecting your pension and retirement HC benefits that you probably never actually paid a dime for. And yes you are exactly correct in saying that my generation paved the way for f**king up the economy..
You mean besides being shot at on final while performing an NVG assault landing in pitch black in ISIS controlled areas to drop off some shooters out the back and then turn around and take off again while taking lead up the tail?

Dude your a keyboard warrior.....my operator comment in the other thread was a nice way of saying let the real men worry about those issues. You keep on keeping on


Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
Just out of curiosity... does your govt paycheck have a spot where they show deductions from your earnings that you choose to go into your pension and HI? Because on my paycheck (yes, got a "real" job, not sure what the fake ones are. Maybe that's govt jobs) has a spot where I choose yea or nay WRT paying for my HI and retirement savings. Of course I also have the spot where they take some for mandatory retirement savings that you imply I don't deserve to get anything back for.
uuhhh dude...you work(ed) for a PRIME contractor for the USG....your on the teat as much as I am

And yes....I have to pay into my pension and HI .... The cushy Government GS jobs aren't what they were back in 1985. They revamped the retirement systems to reflect private industry a long, long time ago....

Last edited by BurnMac42; 08-17-2016 at 11:48 AM.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       08-17-2016, 11:55 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnMac42 View Post
You mean besides being shot at on final while landing in an ISIS controlled area to drop off some shooters out the back and then turn around and take off again while taking lead up the tail?

Dude your a keyboard warrior.....my operator comment in the other thread was a nice way of saying let the real men worry about those issues. You keep on keeping on
I will never believe that soldiers should decide where we should be going to war or how HC should be handled. That's an absurd notion. We are all entitled to expressing an opinion. But your credibility goes down the drain when you put forth the notion you are expressing here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnMac42 View Post
uuhhh dude...you work(ed) for a PRIME contractor for the USG....your on the teat as much as I am
I haven't worked for a govt contractor for over 16 years. So... fail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnMac42 View Post
And yes....I have to pay into my pension and HI .... The cushy Government GS jobs aren't what they were back in 1985. They revamped the retirement systems to reflect private industry a long, long time ago....
So you guys have 401Ks, pay into SS, and HC benefits that end when you retire? Because that's where the "real" private industry is going.

If so, then that's a good thing. Because I'm still under the impression that most govt fed, state, and local is still on a defined benefit pension model and retirement HC benefits.
Old     (BurnMac42)      Join Date: May 2015       08-17-2016, 12:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
I will never believe that soldiers should decide where we should be going to war or how HC should be handled. That's an absurd notion. We are all entitled to expressing an opinion. But your credibility goes down the drain when you put forth the notion you are expressing here.
Lol dude when will you get it thru your head I do not care one iota about my "credibility" to some random 55-60 yr old hanging out on the "off-topic" section of a wakeboarding forum.

I will yet again clarify for you since you like to make wild assumptions and change what people said...
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
"Staying in Afghanistan hoping to "change" them was also a wasted effort."

Afghanistan was a blunder as well. We should have invaded, got Bin Laden, f**k'd up the Taliban good for harboring them, and then let them clean up their own mess. That war should have lasted less than a year with zero dollars spent trying to win "hearts and minds".
That statement is not "deciding to go to war" that statement is a grossly oversimplified and ignorant statement on how to execute a war.

Good job, yet again, of jumping to the wrong conclusion....you don't still work on anything as complex as a sim do you?


Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
I haven't worked for a govt contractor for over 16 years. So... fail.

So you guys have 401Ks, pay into SS, and HC benefits that end when you retire? Because that's where the "real" private industry is going.

If so, then that's a good thing. Because I'm still under the impression that most govt fed, state, and local is still on a defined benefit pension model and retirement HC benefits.
Yes...again shows how dated your information is and stop referring to everyone as a "soldier" it just further shows how out of your element you are discussing the military... As a civilian I pay into HC ( BCBS in my case), I have to pay into SS (everyone does and always has), and the Thrift Savings Plan or TSP is a 401k based retirement.

The entire reason I brought up the fact that I work in contracting was that the USG is NOT the most efficient means of running a huge program such as Health Care. You for 10th time came to the wrong conclusion in saying I think I'm a HC expert. I'm not however I am in expert in Government expenditures and how we run our program offices....IT WILL NOT LOWER COSTS.

I'm sure there are some very, very smart people out there who can come up with a plan that is both attainable and sustainable without destroying the average American's QoL in regard to discretionary income levels

Last edited by BurnMac42; 08-17-2016 at 12:40 PM.
Old     (Laker1234)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-17-2016, 1:48 PM Reply   
John, I can't believe we actually agree on something--scratch it and do something different. Unfortunately, a Hillary win will not let that happen.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       08-17-2016, 2:05 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnMac42 View Post
Lol dude when will you get it thru your head I do not care one iota about my "credibility" to some random 55-60 yr old hanging out on the "off-topic" section of a wakeboarding forum.
When? LOL, you know nothing about this forum. Nobody gives a crap about what you or I believe. Nobody wins arguments. We just like discussing stuff and poking people till they crack when they disagree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnMac42 View Post
That statement is not "deciding to go to war" that statement is a grossly oversimplified and ignorant statement on how to execute a war.
Well, we did exactly what I said in the first part. So it wasn't the deciding part that I differed with, it was the sticking around and nation rebuilding part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnMac42 View Post
Good job, yet again, of jumping to the wrong conclusion....you don't still work on anything as complex as a sim do you?
Yes, you are confused.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnMac42 View Post
Yes...again shows how dated your information is and stop referring to everyone as a "soldier" it just further shows how out of your element you are discussing the military... As a civilian I pay into HC ( BCBS in my case), I have to pay into SS (everyone does and always has), and the Thrift Savings Plan or TSP is a 401k based retirement.
Good for you. As you might have noticed I didn't assume anything about your benefits. I asked you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnMac42 View Post
The entire reason I brought up the fact that I work in contracting was that the USG is NOT the most efficient means of running a huge program such as Health Care. You for 10th time came to the wrong conclusion in saying I think I'm a HC expert. I'm not however I am in expert in Government expenditures and how we run our program offices....IT WILL NOT LOWER COSTS.
OK, but my main complaint as to your position was that you are only focused on how it can't be done. And had absolutely nothing to add as to how it could be done. Since there are already existing universal HC models out there that have everyone insured, I'm suggesting that we should examine them and approach the solution with that information at hand.

At least you did say there are some (Trumpism inserted here) smart people who can figure it out.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       08-17-2016, 2:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laker1234 View Post
John, I can't believe we actually agree on something--scratch it and do something different. Unfortunately, a Hillary win will not let that happen.
Well you've been around long enough to know that I've characterized the ACA as a flip of the coin. I.E. people who couldn't get HI before now able to get it at the expense of those who've had it. I've always said it doesn't fix the problem of hyper inflation and is only a temporary solution that forces us to deal with the issue. It's hard to ignore a thorn in your side.

I actually have no freak'n idea what Trump or Hillary would do WRT HC/HI.

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