Biden for Prez

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

Duty cycle is too low for them to be useful for transportation without doubling the fleet to compensate

What do you mean by duty cycle?

Originally Posted by ralph

What do you mean by duty cycle?

As you said, for a light car even driven in the most pristine unload condition as possible (trust me, they say your gas vehicle gets such and such then you find out they put on plastic high roll tires that last 10,000 miles and drive 35 with a tail wind to get the numbers). Even under these conditions, you get at best 4 hours of operation and 1.5 hours of down time. That is an extremely low duty cycle especially in businesses that are on just in time delivery for production. Operators are loosing money if their machine is not running. 1.5 hours down or longer for trucks is not acceptable. My feeling the duty cycle will be even lower.

Like I said. probably great for causal driving. Just scared what the cost is going to be in a few years and what the used market will look like for a car that is going to need a $10 battery replacement shortly. Few house fires for battery pack shorts and so on. How much to get rid of the car due to the environmental disaster it will be (at least the batteries).

biggest issue of all is the hold the chinese will hold over us for rare earth metals. They already are doing it over metals used in our F35 program. Heck you see it which NBA players and the hold China has over them. They don't even dare say anything about human rights for fear.

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

As you said, for a light car even driven in the most pristine unload condition as possible (trust me, they say your gas vehicle gets such and such then you find out they put on plastic high roll tires that last 10,000 miles and drive 35 with a tail wind to get the numbers). Even under these conditions, you get at best 4 hours of operation and 1.5 hours of down time. That is an extremely low duty cycle especially in businesses that are on just in time delivery for production. Operators are loosing money if their machine is not running. 1.5 hours down or longer for trucks is not acceptable. My feeling the duty cycle will be even lower.

Like I said. probably great for causal driving. Just scared what the cost is going to be in a few years and what the used market will look like for a car that is going to need a $10 battery replacement shortly. Few house fires for battery pack shorts and so on. How much to get rid of the car due to the environmental disaster it will be (at least the batteries).

biggest issue of all is the hold the chinese will hold over us for rare earth metals. They already are doing it over metals used in our F35 program. Heck you see it which NBA players and the hold China has over them. They don't even dare say anything about human rights for fear.

As a contractor, the thing that kills it for me is not just the limited range, there's slim room for contingencies in your schedule. I frequently have to modify my schedule or make unplanned trips throughout the day. It would suck to have to tell a customer I can't take care of them or get to them because my truck doesn't have enough charge.

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

As you said, for a light car even driven in the most pristine unload condition as possible (trust me, they say your gas vehicle gets such and such then you find out they put on plastic high roll tires that last 10,000 miles and drive 35 with a tail wind to get the numbers). Even under these conditions, you get at best 4 hours of operation and 1.5 hours of down time. That is an extremely low duty cycle especially in businesses that are on just in time delivery for production. Operators are loosing money if their machine is not running. 1.5 hours down or longer for trucks is not acceptable. My feeling the duty cycle will be even lower.

Maybe I wasn't clear, with my car on a trip I can drive for 4hrs and then can recharge in 20min. Round town you could probably drive for 8 hrs, they are more efficient slower and obviously cover less distance so can drive longer. 90% of your charging is done slow charging while you are sleeping, I spend less time at a charger than I used to at a petrol station.

The average commute for an American is 30 mins, range or duty cycle is not limitation for a current EV.

Commercially the technology hasn't been released for tradesmen to operate effectively with EV's but it's coming, Tesla cybertruck and Rivian RT1 are being released this year, they have twice the battery storage a car has.

Originally Posted by ralph

Maybe I wasn't clear, with my car on a trip I can drive for 4hrs and then can recharge in 20min. Round town you could probably drive for 8 hrs, they are more efficient slower and obviously cover less distance so can drive longer. 90% of your charging is done slow charging while you are sleeping, I spend less time at a charger than I used to at a petrol station.

The average commute for an American is 30 mins, range or duty cycle is not limitation for a current EV.

Commercially the technology hasn't been released for tradesmen to operate effectively with EV's but it's coming, Tesla cybertruck and Rivian RT1 are being released this year, they have twice the battery storage a car has.

Well, in California we commute minimum of 1hr and many are at 2 hours each way. Granted that is idle speeds. Typical driving in the California during non congestion is around 75 to 80mph.

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

Well, in California we commute minimum of 1hr and many are at 2 hours each way. Granted that is idle speeds. Typical driving in the California during non congestion is around 75 to 80mph.

While it's probably fair to say that many Californians have commutes that long, it's certainly not the norm. But even so, "idle speed" for two hours to work, turn around and do it home, plug car back in when you get home, repeat. Never visit a charging station during "normal" use.

Originally Posted by shawndoggy

While it's probably fair to say that many Californians have commutes that long, it's certainly not the norm. But even so, "idle speed" for two hours to work, turn around and do it home, plug car back in when you get home, repeat. Never visit a charging station during "normal" use.

...and no room for contingencies. Don’t step out of line and enjoy the idea of freedom either. Hey, what happens when the windmill freezes up and you can’t charge your car anywhere? What happens when there are planned rolling blackouts? How bout unplanned blackouts?

Originally Posted by markj

...and no room for contingencies. Don’t step out of line and enjoy the idea of freedom either. Hey, what happens when the windmill freezes up and you can’t charge your car anywhere? What happens when there are planned rolling blackouts? How bout unplanned blackouts?

What happens when a fuel pipeline breaks, or a refinery blows up?

Your points are well taken and certainly justify some future upgrades to the grid in coming decades.

I’m not really sure what freedom has to do with it?

Originally Posted by ralph

Maybe I wasn't clear, with my car on a trip I can drive for 4hrs and then can recharge in 20min. Round town you could probably drive for 8 hrs, they are more efficient slower and obviously cover less distance so can drive longer. 90% of your charging is done slow charging while you are sleeping, I spend less time at a charger than I used to at a petrol station.

The average commute for an American is 30 mins, range or duty cycle is not limitation for a current EV.

Commercially the technology hasn't been released for tradesmen to operate effectively with EV's but it's coming, Tesla cybertruck and Rivian RT1 are being released this year, they have twice the battery storage a car has.

Like I said, if this is the better wheel then so be it. However, Go by any high density housing area (which they are building like gang busters in California, there are 3 or more cars per household. People are parking everywhere and anywhere. Even in the suburbs housing is so expensive, it is routine to see 3 or more cars in the household. Just going to be a mess. Lots of fights and so on. Maybe they figure it out but society is going to have to get better with each other not worse. High commute times is already hi pressure on people. Never mind having to come home and find someone is in your spot, move things around and so on.

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

Like I said, if this is the better wheel then so be it. However, Go by any high density housing area (which they are building like gang busters in California, there are 3 or more cars per household. People are parking everywhere and anywhere. Even in the suburbs housing is so expensive, it is routine to see 3 or more cars in the household. Just going to be a mess. Lots of fights and so on. Maybe they figure it out but society is going to have to get better with each other not worse. High commute times is already hi pressure on people. Never mind having to come home and find someone is in your spot, move things around and so on.

For sure that is definitely a problem to solve, home charging only works well if you have off street parking.

Originally Posted by ralph

For sure that is definitely a problem to solve, home charging only works well if you have off street parking.

Extremely little of that in big cities.