Calabria Pro V or Sanger V-215

Hello there,
Me and my dad are looking at these two boats, We were wondering if anyone could give some pro's or con's of them. They are both used boats.

The first is a 2007 Sanger V-215,with only 25 hours. Black Scorpion 330HP engine, ballast (Don't know how much yet), depth finder, board racks, cover, fiberglass swim platform, tandem trailer, CD stereo, and more.

The next is a 2006 Calabria Pro-V with only 66 hours and 330HP Black Scorpion engine,Bimini,700# Ballast,Wake Plate,Perfect Pass,Heater,Shower,Cover, and more.

We are trying to stay under the 30,000 mark.
Mostly just looking for some opinions on them currently, Which will be best for wakeboarding and wakesurfing?

Thanks for your time,
Mike.

Sanger v-215 hands down. The sanger will have two rear ballast tanks (250lbs each) and 1 optional front tank (500lbs) for a total of 1000 lbs of ballast.

I have a v215, I love it, outstanding boat.

As far as build quality take a look at the videos on sanger's website. http://sangerboats.com/craftsmanship.html It shows you exactly how well sanger boats are built!

Sanger!!! Those boats are sweet with the chubby tower on them.

I've never ridden behind a Pro-V, but the amount of room in that boat is incredible! It's nice to be able to stretch out in any direction. It's one of my favorite layouts of any boat. Remember, you spend like 80% of your time in the boat, not behind it.

That being said, the 215's wake is pretty darn good. The first time I ever rode behind one, I was expecting to be disappointed, but I was pleasantly surprised instead. Good size and great shape.

I can't compare the two but I love my Sanger and and there is tons of space in them especially for the size of the boat. They are extremely well built boats and you get killer support from the company. As mentioned above the wake is excellent for boarding and even better for surfing. I have a buddy with an 07 Pro-V and he seems to like it but he doesnt ride or surf at all and I haven't spent much time in it.

The sage around here always recommend spending some time in and around the boat.

I've been in a couple of Pro V's and second what Sly said above. Although it's only 750lbs the below floor pumpless ballast (pure vert) is outstanding. There's soo much room in the rear storage also. I've seen a complete Sky Ski, cooler, and gear on one side alone, and stuff wasn't even on top of each other. Absolutely zero bow rise when the boat is coming out of the hole (ballast full). It's one of my favorite boats.

The Pro-V has a much flatter bottom. It's wider and a bit heavier than the V215. That makes it roomy and stable feeling.
The deep V on the Sanger makes it better on rough water and helps it make a good surf wake.
Those are the unbiased answers from me. The biased one is that I picked the Sanger.
You'd enjoy either immensely. Good Luck.

'Calabria all the way. Yes I do own one (Pro v2).

The room in them are outstanding, the wake is great, the purvert ballast are so fast. the surfwake is awsome. I have friends with malibu's and when we go surfing, they all want to surf behind the calabria. If you want pictures let me know. But keep in mind the V215 is a good boat. Overall with the Calabria you will get a better wakeboard wake, better surfwake and more storage.

In case you missed it...

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/769614.html?1263877569

I'd have to say Sanger also.

I have never been in a Sanger so I can't speak for them. but I do own a 08 Calabria team v. You can not beat the ballast on these boat mine feels 1200# in just over a minute. and the interior is huge I have had fifteen people in the boat comfortably. It puts out a great wakeboard wake and a very good surf wake. I have had a couple of issues with some small stuff and Calabria has taken care of the issues ever time. Again I have never been in a Sanger but I would not hesitate to by a Calabria again.

I personally would rather have the Sanger because of the very high recommendations from everybody on this site. From what I can tell though, the Sanger will be better if wakeboarding and Surfing are your highest priority and the Calabria will be better if Partying/hanging out is your main priority. The Calabria ProV is like a living room. The cockpit is huge. They both use Mercruiser and would most likely have the 330hp Black Scorpion so no advantage either way there. I wouldn't be surprised if both used similar gauges as well.

Michael, I know which 2 boats you are looking at. I would probably go with the Sanger because it is black with white flames vs the Calabria that is all red with white flames. If you like the red though it may be a tougher choice. You really need to head down to see those boats in person and take them out before you make a decision.

Thanks for all the info guys. We will definately be checking them both out before a purchase is made. Sounds like the Sanger will be a bit better for wakeboarding and surfing. Brett we have seen that Sanger and are considering it to but there is a Sanger up here in Vancouver that I was referinng to. The colours are even more similiar to the Calabria it is also red and white but just not as much red. We are going to see the Sanger this weekend hopefully.

bought our boat from ocm they are great guys the sanger looks to be a repo and is missing the stereo ocm will be there for you after the sale where as the repo dealer in salem might not be also i think sanger still uses wood in there boats but not positive

Harold, Most people who have been in a Sanger would tell you that wood in the boat is a positive. It is what gives Sangers the best ride in the business. I am not sure I have ever even heard of a Sanger rotting out either. They don't use the junk "waterproof" wood that was used in a lot of boats in the 70's and 80's. Because of the misconception that wood is bad in a boat I believe Sanger now offers their boats with wood stringers or without.

Hey just my.02 but my cousin has a pro v and it is very solid and a great ride. but i do know that in the first year of ownership the gelcoat around the tower started to crack, spidering out around the posts and they had told him this was unavoidable.
On another note, Wood is obviously not a great idea on a boat if avoidable,why do you think cc,mc, and skiers choice dont use any wood.
I am not saying sangers are a bad boat. just like i said my.02

Drew, the reason those companies aren't using wood is because that is what the public wants. You mention wood and people freak out. The best offshore fishing and racing boats are built with wood. If it is done right it is the best way to build a boat.

^^^2nd that. It's all people being misinformed.

yes, people are misinformed about using wood. Sanger has been making boats for 54 years. If building a boat with wood was a bad idea, they would have changed it by now.

Again, look at the videos, they explain all about the wood in the boats. Not only is there wood stringers, all the areas where parts are bolted to the boat are backed up with wood for extra strength.

http://sangerboats.com/factory-tour-4-lamination.html

http://sangerboats.com/factory-tour-9-Sanger-boats-durability.html

Wood is good, glass is cheaper. You can't even compare the feel of a boat built with wood stringers to one with all composite. Like Brett says, the best of the best boat builders all use wood. One of the reasons I chose a Sanger is BECAUSE they wood stringers.

Misinformation on the web is always hilarious..

My friend has a Pro-V and when we put extra weight in it really comes alive ! And you just can't beat the room inside that thing either.

I've heard many many good things about the 215 but never ridden one.

Good Luck either way...

Chris, do not call me misinformed, I have been skiing and owned or my father owned a professional tow boat my entire life so don't go ranting about misinformed. If for some reason your would stringers have the fibreglass casing wear through and water and elements are able toget at the wood it will rot, now this mostly depends on the owner and the care given to the boats. Now as I was saying correct craft build the cadilac of ski boats and if you deny that that piss off. they have gone to solid stringers aswell.your engine is mounted to these stringers and they supply the structural support to the boat,as the horsepower has gone up in these boats over the years and the weight of ballasts, towers and speakers, the extra support is welcome.it has piss all to do with anything else, get your head out of your bum, again I am not bashing sanger I am stating that both of the boats on this thread are very comparable and I would probably go with the sanger.
But if I had 80000.00 to throw away on a boat I would get a nauti in two seconds flat. My father had a 76 nauti 79 nauti and a 89 silver anniversary addition 2001 nauti, then he baught a 92 supra ts6m, and then I was old enough to afford my own boat, I am on to my fifth boat of mine,most boat brands deliver quality and I am not bashing ANYBODY. I have watched the vidio on the sanger site and am actualy going to have another look.Have a great day guy's
CHEERS

Drew, I did not call you misinformed.
Hate used the term in general, and so did John, I was simply agreeing with them that there is a school of thought out there that a boat with any wood in it is somehow inferior.
Have a good day, and your dad sounds like a cool guy, probably my generation

Here is a great sanger v-230 for sale in seattle.

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/1549987876.html

"^^^2nd that. It's all people being misinformed." Yeah I must have been misinformed when I ripped out a floor to fix wood stringers and motor mounts. You do that once and you will forsake wood construction. Sure wood has some benefits and the new wood construction seems to be holding up better, but we will have to see what shape these hulls are in after 15 to 20 in years in a range of environments to be truly informed. Not saying they will rot, but the the long term data is still out.

Having said that, people do love their Sangers. It is rare to see someone complain about them. The Calab sounds like it is a little better equipped (you will def want PP) and leave a couple thousand to get a few options it if you go that route.

The wood in a Sanger is manufactured by Affiliated Resources, INC. under the name Aqua Tech. The wood comes with a Lifetime warranty against fungal decay, termite damage and manufacturing defects such as delamination. As Scott Pellaton says in the video "the wood can not rot". The solid feel the wood provides in rough water along with several other features is the reason I went with Sanger and probably always will.

The stuff Sanger uses in there stringers isn't really "wood", it may have started out that way but it is processed with chemicals and heat to turn it in to something else. It doesn't rot, and it soaks up vibration.

I love the size, style and finish of the Pro-V but haven't ever got to ride behind one. The V215 has legendary performance status around here.

Wood is good, but I think most of the V215's from 08 on up are composite stringers. Last time I talked about it with them you had to request the wood stringers. Which I will do on my next one. I know in 2008 they made both and you could only tell from the 4th-5th digits in the Vin #. They also are chemically treated before encapsulation. I read somewhere that Greenwood XL panels have never had a claim for rotting.

Sanger still uses wood stringers. This was taken directly from a recent Sanger ad. Here are your Composite stringers

"What does it mean when we say our boats are "Built for Life"? It means we pay attention to the details. The proven power, performance and reliability of our Mercury Mercruiser is rooted in the hundreds of items we manufacture in-house to ensure quality, like the moisture-sealed wood/glass composite structure we use inside our hulls. Our hand-fabricated and hand-finished Aqua-beam-cored fiberglass composite stringers are critical components of each hull. It takes time and dedication to build a boat that lasts a lifetime."

They just changed the wording so people don't focus on the word "WOOD" and all the previous experiences associated with it.

(Message edited by yubasanger on January 19, 2010)

(Message edited by yubasanger on January 19, 2010)

I just talked to Brian at Sanger, and stand corrected. Sounds like they had played around with it,and the new V215 XTZ is the only one with the glass floor. You could order a std V215 with the glass but it would be more and why would you? If the seriel # is RX then it is wood floor and RF is fiberglass. Doesn't sound like there was that many that had it. The stringers are the same they have always been. That is different than what I had been told,maybe it was our EX KK rep but it doesn't really matter. Thanks for the accurate info Brandon. Nice boat too.

Looks like less and less people are going to be misinformed. I'm sorry but I'll attribute that to anyone who makes a blanket statement that wood is bad. If you had done some research into what Sanger uses and had something resembling proof that the stringers in Sangers fail then I'd be wrong.

I found it funny when I was looking into what boat my family should get. EVERY competing boat rep loved to bring up the "fact" that it is a negative that Sanger uses wood; that was there go to argument if I ever asked their opinion on the brand.

I can understand why so many people are misinformed on this, their dealers are spreading bad information.

Thankfully for the internet, you can learn for yourself - rather than taking what salespeople tell you as the uncontested truth.

I got wood!

Nothing wrong with a Beaver-retriever... The Sangers are great boats. Wood or no wood. The wood they use WONT rot. It's chemically treated and "dead" from what I've been told.

As for the wakes, both the Calabria and Sanger can have a great wake. It's all how you weight them. Both will require a fair amount of weight. Actually, I've been very happy with the Pro V wake in the past. Lots of fun. Big and wide with a great transition.

My Sanger cracked the gel around the tower, too. I never thought that was right, but I've seen boats from every manufacture with Gel cracks. I think a lot of it has to do with how it was applied (i.e. temps, humidity, thickness, etc.)

I'd take the Calabria for several reasons:

1) huge interior

2) huge swim platform

3) gravity fed ballast

4) lockers doors open inwards making them easy to load from outside the boat (most boats are opposite).

Always liked calabria's. Don't know why they are not more popular. I heard they take quite a bit of weight.

Calabria is a custom boat builder. They do not mass produce like most boat building companies. They do not need allot of weight. Then again it depends on the rider. They also do not advertise or force propoganda(spelling?) as much as other boat builders. They are a very strong and solid boat.

I agree with you rob but I also think that it is one of calabria's down falls is that they don't put there name out there thus a lot of people just don't hear about them. I talk to Bob Jensen all the time at Calabria they are a great company and they make great boats. but I also own one so of corse I like them.

Preparing the boat after it comes out of the mold........This is the part of the sanger build video that gets me, watch it, there is a lot of wood in there if you ask me.

Thats awesome those hatches open inward.

Drew - Don't worry about the wood. If there were issues with it you'd hear about it on this site. I guess they know what they are doing when it comes to using different materials in boats.

Let's put that argument to bed now. (unless some Sanger owners want to jump in with wood problems). Wood may be an issue with companies that don't treat it correctly, but that isn't the case with Sanger boats like everyone is trying to tell you.

I've yet to hear of anyone who has owned a Sanger that wouldn't own another one... and most prefer them after owning one.

Like that link that I posted early on in this string, buying a Sanger makes you part of the family. I'm not sure that is the case with Calabria, but I don't have anything negative to say about Calabria...Just that I will probably never buy another brand of boat other than Sanger.

Drew, you are so wrong it isn't even funny. If all composite stringers were the best way to build boats and make them the strongest why do 40 foot offshore boats with twin 1000hp big blocks and 50 foot Jersey sport fishing boats that pound through 7 foot seas use wood?

You are basing your statement that wood rots on how other manufacturer's built their boats back in the day. I don't think I have ever even heard of a Sanger having wood rot. Maybe some from the 80's or early 90's but I haven't even heard those stories. Correct craft use to use wood stringers and they sucked at pulling it off correctly. When they stayed dry the boat has a very solid feel but they didn't treat the wood correctly so it rotted. Don't lump Sanger in with all the other inboard manufacturer's that use to use wood. The other manufacturer's chose to go this route because of the negative connotations associated with wood(improperly treated) and cost.

Now this line I find funny and shows your immaturity. "Now as I was saying correct craft build the cadilac of ski boats and if you deny that that piss off."

Are you saying they are built better or built with more bling? I am assuming you meant quality and to that I would say there are a few and maybe most of the boat builders who make just as high a quality of a boat. Maybe less bling, but the quality is there. In my opinion quality and luxury directly associated.

I actually use to own a 2003 Calabria and I thought the boat was very nice. It didn't fit my needs as it was a direct drive but it was a nice boat. The Calabria, already having some of those great options might swing me in that direction. The ballast on the Calabria is awesome. You will probably need extra sacks upgraded sacks in either boat if you really get into surfing.

Lifetime, you beat me to it.

(Message edited by polarbill on January 20, 2010)

If you went with the Calabria, i would see if there is something you can do about that platform. That thing looks like it'd chew up the surf wave it's so big.

Andrew, Nope the surfwake is big. The platform really does not get in the way.

Funny,
Those calabria pics are nice. I like the looks and the ballast concept. I don't like the hatches opening the other way. I am always on the middle pad when I reach into my lockers. It looks hard to get stuff out when you are on the water

Rob - I'm surprised the platform doesn't cut in, it is very wide and rectangular. Not saying it would decrease the size, but most platforms that size/shape keep the wave from being as clean as possible.

My old Supra was like that, after enough weight/lean the edge of the platform would be under the water.

Nickster - It's easy if you walk on water

Andrew, well I guess it might cut into it but take a look, it really does not effect it too much

Another thing I like about the Pro -V is the fact they have a 12v plug in each locker, That makes it really nice to fill sacks if you don't have them plumbed in.

I did not realize the hatches on the Calabria opened inward. Tige does that as well, to me personally its the wrong way and only makes it hard to do anything with them while in the boat, especially on the water. I think thats a poor design "feature"

12v plug in each locker, good idea.
hinge the hatch so you can't get to the 12v plug...

(Message edited by rio_sanger on January 20, 2010)

Looks like a fun wave Rob

I find it hard looking at pictures like that right now, April/May can't come soon enough

I love getting into wood arguments with CC, MC, and Bu salesmen. The reason they dont use wood is simple. It takes a lot of effort to do it right, and ......When you mass produce a boat, it is easier to do all fiberglass for cost, and mass production. That is why they dont use wood. I had a CC salesman ask me once, "Why would Sanger use wood in this day and age." Because they build them the right way, just like off shore racing boats, and multi million dollar yachts. The wood takes vibration better along with a load of other plusses.

Not saying Bu, CC, or MC dont make a quality boat..they obviously do. Although I have seen some MAJOR CC issues.

End Highjack.. I obviously own a Sanger, and would never hesitate to own another. That being said, I also am a fan of the Calabria, lots of space for the price..

(Message edited by stillstandin on January 20, 2010)

please don't compare wood in a 50 ft boat to wood in a wake boat. totally different construction and conditions. when is the last time someone took a garden hose of water and sprayed down the inside cuddy of a 50footer. i couldn't care is it had wood or not, i don't keep a boat for more than 3 or 4 years, but conditioning is the key, any construction that help control long term stability will win over buyers who are looking for value. its not always about cost in construction, but expectations of the buyer. wood is great and so in composite, both have advantages. pick the boat that you like the most and don't worry about the wood. chances are you will have a new boat way before it has an affect even if you don't take care of it.

How wide is the beam on the Calabria ? They are great looking boats for sure. I've never rode behind one but they look really wide. I've have wondered how much weight it would take to get a respectable wake with the wide beam.

I'm a Sanger lover too.

Calabria Pro-V = 102" beam

Calabria Pro-V2 = 100" beam

WCW- It does not take that much. Pictures I posted above, This is the formula:

Port side ballast full, trim plate all the way up, one 350 pound bag beside engine and 4 people in boat. Thats is, simple.

lots of people do not understand that you do not need that much weight in a Calabria.

My Team V is 102" wide With the stock ballast 1200#you can get a decent wake out of it I also put 500# along the back seat, and to me it makes a great wake to ride on Calabria also comes with the adjustable wake plate so you can shape the wake to your liking. For surfing we put 500# in the rear locker 500#along the seat plus stock ballast and it puts out a huge wake. We have two 80# dogs in the boat with us all the time so when you are wakeboarding and they decide to move around the boat the ballast empties so quick that you can adjust the wake on the fly in a couple seconds to even out the boat.

Any shots of the wake while wakeboarding ?

I had some but I deleted them by mistake. sorry

here is a couple with stock ballast. sorry not the best pics.

i've ridden behind the Pro-V and I thought it was a great boat and great wake. If i had a family i would pick the Pro-V hands down! There is so much room inside its silly

Jarod- What rope length are you riding at?

I was riding a 65ft At 22mph I have started to ride at 70ft the wake behind the calabria is pretty wide.

I started out looking at the Pro V, which I liked very much and have spent some time on.

I bought the MB TWB because it reminded me of Pro V... wide beam, huge cockpit, pure vert ballast. I picked it over the Pro V because it fits better in my garage (a little shorter).

Bottom line, the Pro V is a great boat that doesn't get the pub it probably deserves.

I know nothing about Sanger, except lots of WW folks love it.

Obviously im partial to Sanger. I dont have one single complaint about mine. I actually looked hard at Calabria also. Heres my 215 wake...

I own a Pro-V and have only ridden behind a Sanger once, but remember thinking it was a smaller and flatter wake.

I love the room in my Pro-V and could go to about 1200lbs before feeling the boat drag. Once I re-propped it wasn't an issue. When possible, I run the stock ballast, 540 in the nose and about 500 lbs divided along the sides (1750 ish total).

Very happy with that setup and no power issues... Good luck with your search...

I can't comment on the wakeboarding ability of the 215, but its wakesurfing ability is outstanding. It surfs so evenly, and with little extra weight on both sides. The shape and size of the wave is among the very best for a 21ft boat. I'd think the Centurion Avalanche is the only one better.

That 215 wake looks similar to the Pro V.

Not sure how much weight is in that Sanger but the wake looks good.

I don't know exactly how much my friend runs in his Pro V but it is a nice wake. Good shape with a bit of a lip at the top.

Sanger V215 all the way, however I'm biased. The wake and quality of my 2008 V215 are great, with that being said I would seriously look at the Pro-V, they look like top of the notch boats, we just don't see a lot of them down here in South Texas.

pro v sanger makes a nice boat but they are narrow only 96" the extra 6"makes a world of differance.andrew your statement only the avy is better is way off every centurion model will out surf the sanger they have been doing it for years.my 20"8"falcon v puts out a way better wave than my buddys 215.i do like the sangers though they were my second choice but based on size buy the pro-v fit and finish is great they are very nice and you wont pull up with the same boat as the next guy jmo.

You better just ride in them. A demo will show the differences and let you decide what's important for you.
I always had fun on demo drives, but my wife got tired of it after a while.

Harold, I'm sure you would like to think the Cent lineup is the best for surfing, through and through, but it has been over hyped and under analyzed. They put out great waves, that's for sure, but if you weight a Sanger 215/237 properly you'll see some amazing results on both sides.

If Centurion used the Avy hull in all their boats, then I would agree with you.

The Avy is not as good as a properly weighted Sanger. Both sides that is. The Centurion is not as good on both sides.

Dennis I have to argue, a properly weighted Avy is equal to a properly weighted V215. Each has advantages over the other. Also my centurion avy is amazing on both sides. Sangers are awesome boats, and it shows with how loyal owners are! There are tons of calabrias in my area, and I know they are also great boats properly weighted. They also have better freeboard than the v215.

Duffy,
The Avy is good as you have shown. You have had to modify your boat to cleanup the wake am I correct. The Sanger doesn't need any modification to produce a clean wake. Yes the freeboard is greater on the Avy.

Duffy, are you saying the calabria has more freeboard than the Sanger or the Centurion has more freeboard than the Sanger. I ask because the calabria boats have to have the lowest freeboard of any current vdrive besides the V210. They are super shallow.

The calabrias in my area all seem to have decent freeboard? I could be wrong I guess I only see them in the water and most likely not weighted very heavily.

(Message edited by duffymahoney on January 22, 2010)

Dennis,

You don't need to modify it, I have done alot but to be honest the only thing that is really needed is the avy sac(1400-1500) pounds and thats it. The avy also needs more freeboard. I wish I could tell all boat manu's to add freeboard, just for safety.

"They also have better freeboard than the v215."

should have said "higher", or "more" freeboard, because lower is better for many of us...