Recycle This!! - A Work in Progress

This is my latest entry in alternative surfboard materials competition, in part a response to SurfDad's latest Surf This!!!!, (Surf Door). So far only Jeff, Denis, and I have submitted entries - anyone else?

So this year Jeff and the AWSA sent a bunch of demo and prize boards to me for competitions and clinics, plus I bought a few boards. I had several Inland Surfer boxes and Trick Boardz box, I kept these boxes through the season incase I needed to ship any boards. What do you do with all of those boxes the boards are shipped in? How about recycling them?

I cut the boxes in to long two inch wide strips. I also trimmed a left over 8-foot, 1 by ¾ pine board down to down to a 56 inch 1 by ¼ stringer. Then I cut a bunch of 2 by 2 inch cardboard pads. My plan is to stack the 2-inch cardboard strips in parallel with the center wooden stringer. Each strip will be separated from the next strip by the 2-inch squares.

Each individual strip should have good compression strength, but will be wobbly from side to side. Stacking and gluing (more resin) the strips with the spacers should improve the side to side strength. I coated each strip and each spacer with resin to further improve compression strength, but more importantly to provide some protection from water.

I traced a Walker Project F-18, which is a little small for me, so when I traced the board I moved it 6 inches, adding to the overall length. I also traced the fins from the Walker Project board.

I placed the outline on a work table then placed the stringer, strips, and spacers over the Walker F-18 pattern. I trimmed the strips so they are just larger than the pattern.

That’s where I left off this evening. Next steps are to glue the pieces together, saw the assembly to the same size as the model, carve rocker in to the nose of the board, fine shaping and smoothing, cover with a combination of recycled materials, resin over and sand the finish the top coat.

It’s been a lot of work so far, I expect it will take a while to finish this project, but it will longer before its warm enough to ride.

So far I have about $45 in resin, paint brushes, and rubber gloves.

Raw Materials

Cutting strips

A stack of strips

2 inch spacers

Tracing the Walker board

The model

The model and Walker board

Resin coated strips laid out to dry

Spacers laid out to dry

The stringer, strip, and spacers before trimming


After trimming

OMG you have way too much time on your hands!

Too much time, hmmmm, let's see, I'm also working on planning three wakesurfing competitions next year and several clinics (wakesurf gatherings). I've been invited to add a wakesurfing competition to the NWL wakeboard nationals to be held in Dayton, Ohio, this coming season.

If I wasn’t wakesurfing obsessed it would be some other kind of boat related obsession, you’ve got to have a hobby

I enlisted Ed's assistance a year ago to assist in bringing Wakesurfing to the midwest under the banner of the AWSA, for a number of reasons. One is obviously his passion for the sport, but the other and probably more importantly is his ability to get things done. Always makes me laugh when people speak negatively about a trait they can't master. Ed has the ability to manage his time, delegate to and motivate others.

Always helps to be obsessed I guess too

Ed, I'm confused about the thickness. We found with the plywood flyer and all of the skimboard products that thickness wasn't needed. You've laid your Recycle This!! (2 exclamation points? ) at 2 inches thick - just to follow the design of the F-18? I played with a sheet of cardboard and glassed it. With two layers of 7 oz glass you can eliminate the tendency to crush the cardboard. I also noticed that the cardboard didn't absorp much resin. What other materials/chemicals did you consider for waterproofing/gluing?

Will you be routing in fin boxes for FCS or Futures fins or?????

What is the secret skinning material!!!!!!

Sick buildup. Keep us posted.

Jeff,

I think you’re right, you don’t need thickness to make a board surfable. Very buoyant boards can in fact be difficult for beginners to manage from a deep water start. I’m starting out with 2 inches which should give some working depth to carve a little rocker in the nose. I’m planning to add some angled spacers in the nose giving more height at the nose and more material to shape some rocker.

I’m also unsure how strong this will be, I think pretty strong, depth adds strength.

I coated both sides of the cardboard. It looks like the card board is fairly well saturated with resin, the folds in the center of the card board are probably not saturated, I think that’s OK, I’ll at least have about 40, 2-sided stringers, that should be pretty strong.

I work with some research polymer chemists. I didn’t bother asking them for any advice on chemicals. I bet I could get some pretty good advice to improve saturation. I’m guessing that a resin with a longer working time would help.

I wasn’t planning on building in fin boxes, at least not the commercial kind that are in the Walker board. Fin boxes would represent a material cost which I’m trying to avoid. What I’m planning to do is saturate the cardboard fins with resin. I’ll insert those fins in-between the cardboard strips as a special spacer. The fins on the Walker board are canted out a bit, I think that’s what gives those boards so much drive up the wake and also what makes the Walker boards so fast from rail to rail. My fins won’t be canted. If I want a really good Walker board I should probably buy one from Mike, this is a fun winter project.

Jeff, maybe I could step up to a real fin box, which maybe worth while since I’m putting all of this effort in to this board. Where do you recommend looking for fin boxes?

I can also router in door hinge mountings and I could install a door knob, maybe two?

I’m planning on using paper shopping bags for a skin, plus I have a few other interesting things I’m thinking about glassing in.

Also, you are correct two exclamation points in "Recycle This!!"

You're stealing my idea!!!!!!!!! No hinge mounts or door knobs or you're disqualified!

If you want a true recycle this!! for fin boxes, I have at least "one" prototype board that was less than stellar. I could rough cut the boxes out and then you can salvage them - TRULY recycle this!! Let me know and I'll start hacking.

I love the paper bag skin!!!!!!!! I wonder if it would be possible to use paper as the core material, either folding like oragami or layered like a sandwich? Challenge redux?

Keep your carving knife in the tool box, I’ll either go with my original plan or I’ll come up with something. At one end all I need is a dowel glued in place. The other end isn't much more complicated.

I was thinking of trying to draw Kroger’s in as a Wakefest sponsor by placing the Kroger’s shopping bag logo in the center of the board. I could do the same with Lowe’s lawn leaf bags, again placing the Lowe’s logo in the center of the board.

I need find the Ohio Department of Natural Resources, or someplace else to see if I can get some recycling stickers to glass in.

I’m certain you could do this with paper. I think one significant advancement would be a spray on coating over the paper, maybe a polyurethane or something else. The paper is there for tensile strength and to provide shape to hold the resin. There are differences in paper, you wouldn’t want a paper with any wax content. Some papers have higher tensile strength; I’d have to do a little research to take the idea any further. It would be interesting to get some one at Miami of Ohio, interested in a paper pulp, senior project, I think there’s a lot that you could do.

A minor update; the core of the board has been glued together. This evening I completed coarse shaping on the bottom of the board, starting to add rocker to the nose. I cut kerfs with a table saw and then cut and chiseled between the kerfs. The bottom of the board now has a stepped rocker.

I need to level the top of the core, I’ll probably do that with a radial arm saw.

The core is off the assembly table and on the table saw

Marking areas for planning

Tools for cutting between the kerfs

The first level of rocker is complete

Stepped rocker

Why? How many hungry people could you have helped with this time? Could you have used this time to better your career and get a bigger boat, for a bigger wake? Could you have used this time working, and have had a real shaper make you a perfect board? Sorry to sound so rude, but this seems out of hand unless it'll be hung in MOMA (NYC).

I laughed so hard at you Curtis - your blatant prejudical remarks coming from on high - which would be on top of your boat, with recently finished dry stacks, or the planned hot tub?!...you're background simply must be as either a pot or kettle? LOLOLOLOL!

Ed, you are shaping in the rocker? So you could have chosen to make the length of the nose any length, or really lack of length more importantly for speed. The deck of the nose will be flat however. Do you intend to use anything for the rails? Or will you just shape them from the existing material?

Uhm.... ya Curtis is the King of way out projects, though I'd love to surf behind his boat sometime.

Time wise I might have 40 hours in so far.

Yes, shaping rocker. I chose to start rocker about where I saw it on the Walker board, though I don't think I'm going to have as much rocker as Mike's F-18. I did make the board longer than Mike's board, hoping for more speed.

I'm planning to keep the bottom on the board pretty flat, but keep bottom to side edge a sharp 90 degree angle.

This evening I'm going to router the edge of the core.

I'm going to borrow a belt sander to finish the shaping. I'm concerned about shaping the front tip; I might replace vertical stringers with a layer of horizontal card board.

Curtis,
So whats wrong with using a work of art. Then hang it up in a gallery somewhere. In fact, I think Jeff rehung the surfdoor at his house. Looks great with the pink color. Just have to be careful not to trip over the fin.

I routered the tail of the core this evening.



Here's what the fins will look like, they install in open spaces between stringers.



Here's my covering material

haha that thing is sick

Dennis I am not THAT redneck! Although, James did want to replace the door to his bedroom with the Surfdoor! Judy wasn't thrilled with that idea for some reason. Women can be so difficult to understand sometimes.

Ed Sullivan had a great idea for the use of surfdoor around Thanksgiving - bring in 2 saw horses, lay the surfdoor on top and viola a TABLE - the fin could be used for hanging a bread basket on!

Ed, the Recycle This!! is really taking shape. Tell me does the board have any flex? I'm wondering what the rtide characteristics will be compared to a Poly U core board.

There's side to side flex, but I think the outer skin will firm that up. There's little flex in the vertical plane - all those stringers.

I'm a little worried about shaping the nose of the board, but as I said I have a backup plan - a horizontal sheet of cardboard at the nose.

Mike Walker's board is incredibly light, Recycle This will be comparatively heavy.

A word of warning about using doors and saw horses for tables; the ladies won't let you use the bathroom door, especially if there's only one bathroom in the house

Ok Ed, if it's art, rad. perhaps I read this wrong, and was assuming it was to actually used. And Jeff, how can you compare this project to mine! I'll agree my boat's not practical for most, and I'm not like most people. Neither is Ed. Jeff some how live in a bubble thinking everyone wants to ride a 50k boat which only kicks a 4' wake. In reality, everyone wants a big wake. Ed, are you getting constant e-mails and phone calls of people wanting to ride on your board when it's completed? By the way, you're still welcome to come out. Ed, way to follow your dream, I admire that. I mistakenly applied this project to my own ideals and spoke out.

Curtis, how could I not compare the two projects? Tell me how yours is in anyway different, better or anything. Also, please direct me to your assertion: "In reality, everyone wants a big wake." I'm happy with mine, and don't consider it in the realm of what you are contemplating...even without the hottub.

PLUS, why would you speak negatively about another man's passion and project when you do the same thing? Seems BEYOND hypocritical to me.

As wild and unusual these projects are they have taught us alot in wakesurf board design. I am sure that many thought, like Curtis has, that Wilber and Orville Wright were wasting their time.

Curtis,

"Why? How many hungry people could you have helped with this time? Could you have used this time to better your career and get a bigger boat, for a bigger wake? Could you have used this time working, and have had a real shaper make you a perfect board? Sorry to sound so rude, but this seems out of hand unless it'll be hung in MOMA (NYC)."

You seem to consider your time and effort pursuing your passion a more noble effort. Maybe Ed is happy with his career and doesn't "want a better one" Maybe he is glad that his boat won't swamp other boats with a 6' wake. Not everyone lives in an area where large wakes are common. And yes I think your comments are rude and elitist.

The primary motivation behind this project is fun, one of my many pursuits of happiness. I had never thought of this board as art, though I appreciate the air brush art on the Walker board, the model for this Recycle This. I appreciate art that I’ve seen on other boards too. I’ll take any reference of this board to art as a complement.

I’m an engineer, my father was an engineer, what I do, how I do it, how think, I can’t help it, I’m an engineer. I build stuff, or at least I used to, now a write proposals, performance specifications, test plans, and test reports. This year I increased my built in ballast by 1,500 pounds, I built simple tower ballast weight mount, I built an overhead wakesurf board rack, I built (if you can call it building)” Surf This”, I built “Skim That”, I built and tested a mechanism that improves surfing wakes (Surf Switch),
I’ve reviewed a sketch for a wakesurfing apparatus that was faxed to me, I’ve reviewed a patent for another wakesurfing apparatus, I’ve freely given technical advice on this other apparatus. I have several other wakesurfing related ideas that I’d like to put a little time in to. Since I don’t build things at work anymore; maybe I’m meeting that need with these projects. My boating season is over; building this board is as close as I can get to boating until April.

Engineering is necessarily a creative undertaking, many engineers have other artistic endeavors, many engineers that I work with are musicians, I play a little guitar( but I suck). Clark Foam stopped making cores this year. Some manufactures are exploring alternative materials; I think that includes both Waltzer and the Walker Project, probably others too. I don’t expect this technique to go beyond a web posting or two. However, I bet someone in the paper industry has the tooling to pre cut stringers, maybe with interlocking horizontal pieces. With the right tooling this might be a viable approach.

Like “Skim This” and “Surf That” I intend to surf this board. My performance expectations are not high, I expect a purely recreational ride for my amusement and anyone else that might likewise be amused.

I wouldn’t call this my dream, for me boating is a passion. Wakesurfing has become a large part of my boating related activities, and something I enjoy quite a bit. I’ve always enjoyed sharing my boating experiences and in this last year have reached out and found many others with the same passion as mine. This next year I’m planning a number of social boating events, running three competitions, organizing informal wakesurf gatherings, in addition to my normal routine - riding with my family and friends.

I could be more charitable with my time and other resources, many if us could. I donate through the United Way at work, is that enough, I’m sure I could do more. I work in a one of a kind world class organization; I have the opportunity to work on a wide array of engineering projects and with many other bright individuals with diverse range of skills. The people I work with are very talented, great to be around and work with, I feel very fortunate to be where I’m at.

I’ve really enjoyed reading about Curtis’ boat. I wouldn’t want Curtis or anyone else to stop posting because some one didn’t appreciate what they were sharing. It’s all about communications, Curtis may have over reacted on his first post, or his reaction was misinterpreted, I can deal with it, and I can say that I’ve d it before and I’ll probably do it again.

Enough, let’s have fun and surf. Given an opportunity I’d be thrilled to surf behind Curtis’ boat, and though it’s probably not as exciting, he’d be welcome to surf “Recycle This” any time.

I didn't say this clear enough- sorry Ed. Didn't intend to offend you, and it took me a second too late to understand.

My skin is pretty thick, it takes a lot more to offend me. My long monolog is an attempt to say who I am and why I'm doing what I'm doing.

Like many others I do think what you’re doing with your boat is fascinating - a one of a kind machine and like you said not typical. I look forward to reading more and seeing a few more pictures of surfers riding the monster wake.

Regards

I just LOVE this!!!
Keep on. Cant wait for results

I had a disaster this weekend, the leg of my work table wasn't secured and so as I was sanding in some tail rocker the board crashed to the ground, landing on its nose.

I've been working on salvaging the board. By next weekend I should be back to where I was last weekend.

I'll post pictures of the disaster and recovery tonight.

Oh no!

Is it done yet? lol

Originally Posted by Pad1Tai

Is it done yet? lol

Dude, forum foul. No digging up threads from 8 years ago. I mean after I read it, I was curious if it was finished and if it was updated, but this thread is already in the grave, 6 feet under, pushing up daisies.