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Old     (brycejb328)      Join Date: Aug 2009       12-09-2014, 7:44 AM Reply   
Hey Everyone, so my head is spinning trying to narrow down what AWD sedan I want. Feel free to throw out your ideas.. maybe I am missing something. Just not to sure about the offerings from BMW or infiniti.... thoughts??

WRX wagon/sedan - Thinking 2010 plus model year. Love the WRX as a wagon. Always hated the interiors, feels cheap inside. I have driven a couple of the early 2000's and enjoyed them. Still need to get in a newer one to see how it feels.

S4 - I couldn't love these cars enough, until I spoke with a specialty audi shop and they are really against the V8's in that car, sounds like the engine can be a grenade... I don't know that I want to dish out the cash for the 2010+ model

S6 - I hear the engine is more solid that the v8 s4's. A little bigger, working on lining up a test drive soon.

IS250 AWD - on paper, it kinda looks like a slouch compared to the others... on the flip side, it seems to be the newest I can get for the price.

R32 - had a co-worker who owned one for many years so I have spent some time in one. Awesome car, obviously it isn't a sedan though.. so... the fact its a 2 door is definitely a turn off
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       12-09-2014, 8:13 AM Reply   
if you like the R32, the audi A3 could be had with the exact same drivetrain in a 4 door.
Old     (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: SF Bay Area       12-09-2014, 8:17 AM Reply   
2015 WRX - interior is all new & plush.
Old     (iShredSAN)      Join Date: Apr 2012       12-09-2014, 9:08 AM Reply   
I have a 2010 A4 for sale... Black with back leather, LED headlights, all the bells and whistles, 60k miles. It's been a great car but the wife is having a baby so its time to get a SUV...
Old     (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       12-09-2014, 9:26 AM Reply   
One of the funnest wagons I have owned is a BMW 535xi. Fast as all heck with twin turbos and still luxury and looks like a sleeper. They have had some issues with high pressure fuel pumps on the 35 motor, but they are warrantied til 2016 by BMW on all of them. Some class action suit. Pick one up and then go have them replaced. Really sweet car. Not real easy to find a nice one.
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013 Location: Vancouver WA       12-09-2014, 10:03 AM Reply   
I used to have an Audi A6 Avant with the 2.8 dog of a motor. I upgraded last year to a 2002 S6 Avant. I also have a well modded 1998 BMW M3 Cabrio for frame of reference.

As far as the S6 goes, I love to quote the Car and Driver article on it:

Quote:
If BMW's M5 is the ultimate sedan (Any argument on that? No? Good.), then the S6 Avant is the ultimate wagon. End of discussion.
I had thought about going Allroad, but I honestly couldn't get past the two-toned thing. I hated it. Sure, they made allroads that were mostly single color, but still. I decided that the things I was Meh on with the allroad were all non-issues on the S6. It already had the sport seats in a solid color. It has the sport suspension with no airbags to leak. Like I'm really going to USE multiheight suspension anyway, right? It doesn't have turbos to go out. It has the 340hp V8 that is quite fun with no modding required. So for me, the choice made a lot of sense.

I tend to get cars that are a decade or more old and have the luxury and performance that still measures up decently for 1/4 the price.

I am an avid BMW fan. I am treasurer of the BMW Oregon CCA and surround myself with BMW enthusiasts. The BMW tourings are great cars, and in many ways BMW's are more "reliable" than Audi. But the AWD Avant is an Audi niche. it's what they specialize in. Also, the BMW Touring cars tend to command a higher price in the market. I've found that without question, the resale value of an Audi plummets as they get higher in mileage? Why? Because there is no free lunch with these cars. The Audis require maintenance. Oil leaks, expensive timing belt service and parts that tend to be even more expensive than their BMW counterparts. Go figure.

But I still love them. Here in the PNW, Subaru's command ridiculous resale. it's like they're plated in gold. The Audi's most certainly have the German luxury, performance, and style. And I can't resist them.

The weak point (if there is one) on the S6 might be the transmission. The idea of "lifetime fluid" is a JOKE. My A6 had to be sold as a high mileage fixer when the tranny took a dump last spring. The cost of repairing or replacing it was more than made sense for a car with 220k miles. The S6 had 105k miles and the previous owner had just had the tranny rebuilt and it was still under warranty for that rebuild. Should I ever have transmission problems again, there's a shop down in AZ that specializes in swapping in a 6-speed manual for less than the price of a rebuild on the tiptronic. However, for the time being, my wife loves the auto, and it's got tip mode and sport mode so it keeps me happy enough. (my M3 is my FUN car anyway, and I have a Kawi ZX6R if that's not enough).

The S6 is my rain/snow/utility car. the M3 doesn't get driven in the rain. I have more than one vehicle so I can justify downtime on one of them while I have the other to drive. I can take my time and get better deals on parts and research small problems myself. It helps justify the cost of ownership of the German machines. (My wife on the other hand has an 09 Honda Ridgeline!)

As far as performance, the 4.2L 340hp V8 is fast. it's mostly noticeable from a roll. Like freeway passing and the like. The car crusies GREAT at 70 to 80mph and just feels like it was meant to keep those kind of speeds. If I want to pass someone, I DO. because it's got it where it needs it. As far as MPG, well.... City I get 14 to 16. On the highway I've seen above 20mpg on a road trip, but that's about the best I ever see. I could milk more MPG out of it, but I have FUN driving it. It's just too fun to mash that skinny pedal and have the V8 come to life. I justify it like this: I get the exact same MPG as my wife's Honda V6 SUV. I get "SUV" gas mileage and I drive a sportscar that's dressed like a euro wagon. I can live with that.

Luxury, it has it. for a 2002, I have a lot. Dual power seats with dual memories. power telescoping/tilt wheel. heated Front AND REAR seats. homelink, digital dual climate control, etc. The Bose stereo is Meh. Eventually I'll yank out all the bose crap and put in aftermarket. My FAVORITE luxury though is the Heated STEERING WHEEL. God, I love that feature.

For the winter, I will be running 17" studless snow tires, a Thule rack with a Yakima cartop box. I rally up to the ski hill every weekend and will do a few roadtrips (whistler, baker, bachelor). In the springtime, the Avant is awesome for tailgating in the ski area parking lot.


In the summer I plan on putting 19's on the S6. I can't resist the look of 19's.

Here is how it sits right now. I just put a set of RS3 replica 17's on it:


This summer I was running it with Stock wheels and racks on top for surf/wakeboards!


Let me know if you have any questions. I'm obviously more than willing to share my thoughts.
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013 Location: Vancouver WA       12-09-2014, 10:10 AM Reply   
And screw the AWD sedans. the wagon is where it's at. SO much more useful than the sedan.

I can't count the number of times I've been STOKED to have a wagon.

Goodwill run


8 tires!


Road Bike, no rack needed


Cargo Space!


4 tires without folding down the rear seats.

Last edited by trayson; 12-09-2014 at 10:14 AM.
Old     (LouZahr)      Join Date: Aug 2011       12-09-2014, 10:35 AM Reply   
My next vehicle will be the 328d Sports Wagon.
43 mpg hwy
180 horsepower
2.0 liter, 4-cylinder TwinPower Turbo Diesel
xDrive, intelligent all-wheel drive
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Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013 Location: Vancouver WA       12-09-2014, 10:39 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by LouZahr View Post
My next vehicle will be the 328d Sports Wagon.
43 mpg hwy
180 horsepower
2.0 liter, 4-cylinder TwinPower Turbo Diesel
xDrive, intelligent all-wheel drive
AWESOME.

I drove the 35d and it was awesome. I'd be more than happy to rock that BMW wagon, but it's too rich for my blood (my Avant is 12 years old and over 100k miles)
Old     (brycejb328)      Join Date: Aug 2009       12-09-2014, 10:42 AM Reply   
Great information. Completely agree on the wagon. From a styling standpoint, Audi and Subaru do a great job pulling it off, IMO. I had a Mazda3 wagon that I loved. Completely different segment that anything discussed here, but a wagon regardless.

I am going to test drive a S6 this afternoon!!

Good suggestion on the A3 wagon, looks like a simple ECU swap and premium fuel it can make great power. Usually not a big fan of modifications like that, but it would sure make it a blast to drive with it making as much power as a r32
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013 Location: Vancouver WA       12-09-2014, 10:44 AM Reply   
My sister has a new Mazda3. I was pretty blown away. the tech that is in those is pretty nice. it had the fit and finish of an A3. not AWD, but I was really impressed at how Mazda stepped up its game.
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013 Location: Vancouver WA       12-09-2014, 10:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by brycejb328 View Post

I am going to test drive a S6 this afternoon!!
It should go without saying to see when the timing belt service has been done, and to make sure it doesn't have any CEL's or ABS/BRAKE warning lights lit up...

When I bought mine, I got the VCDS Lite scan software and the USB/OBD2 cable and read the codes on mine. I got burned on my first Audi that way when codes popped up a day after I drove it home.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       12-09-2014, 10:50 AM Reply   
Sure wish VW was bringing the Golf R sportwagen here next year.

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/201...-and-info-news

Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013 Location: Vancouver WA       12-09-2014, 10:52 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Sure wish VW was bringing the Golf R sportwagen here next year.

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/201...-and-info-news

Same idea times eleventy billion for Audi bringing the RS6 Avant into the USA. I would sell my father into slavery for that car... :drool

Old     (brycejb328)      Join Date: Aug 2009       12-09-2014, 10:55 AM Reply   
That wagon.... Gorgeous.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       12-09-2014, 10:59 AM Reply   
The Golf R I could theoretically justify purchasing.... RS6.... too rich for my blood.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       12-09-2014, 11:59 AM Reply   
Having just gotten rid of my E66, I will tell you to stay the hell away from BMW unless you have a full warranty and sell it as soon as it reaches its end. When mine came out, all hell broke loose. It was like the damn car knew.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-09-2014, 12:26 PM Reply   
Lookie lookie what I just got
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Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       12-09-2014, 12:28 PM Reply   
Quote:
IS250 AWD - on paper, it kinda looks like a slouch compared to the others... on the flip side, it seems to be the newest I can get for the price.
Do yourself a favor and go straight for the IS350 > IS250

I've owned one IS250 and two IS350s, and the IS350 is SOOOO much more fun to drive, like not even close.

I test drove a few of the things you mentioned when I was shopping (G37 / 335i / S4 / WRX STI ) ... The IS350 wasnt the fastest, but for cosmetics, reliability, and "funness" to drive it won out... enough so I've bought three (all used and purchased around 50k miles).

First was the IS250 awd - drove it to ~135k miles, zero problems
Second was IS350 AWD - drove it to ~120k miles, zero problems
Current - IS350 RWD - sitting at 103k, zero problems.

Honestly only have ever put money into tires, brakes, spark plugs, oil changes .... the cars run great with just basic maintenance.

Also FWIW:

IS350 RWD + Snow Tires > IS350 AWD + All-season. .... and the RWD one I have now is lowered like 1.25" and still is a trooper in snow.

AWD drive makes less of a difference than the tires by a big margin. The traction systems in the car (and most newer cars) are amazing and with the right tires should do fine in the snow. I've lived in Minneapolis / Wisco over the course of the past few years with these cars and the RWD IS350 and it does great in the snow.

Cons of the Lexus - small back seat and trunk

With my sales pitch over, the S4 maintenance scared me away since I was looking for something with 40-60k miles.... sounds like the 2005.5+ would require a ~$4k timing chain tensioner fix at like 80k. I agree on the Subaru feeling cheap... another car I would throw in the mix given your list would be a Acura TL 2010+ or G37x

Last edited by sidekicknicholas; 12-09-2014 at 12:31 PM.
Old     (83Starsnstripes)      Join Date: Jul 2013       12-09-2014, 12:28 PM Reply   
Dang that Audi is sweet. Same with the red BMW above.

I had a 2007 A3 with the 3.2L, AWD, S-Line. Super fun to drive but guzzled gas and resale was pretty brutal. Next time I'd go TDI and bigger, maybe A4 or A6.
Good luck on the purchase. I'd say all those look like good options but go wagon. You won't regret it.
Old     (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       12-09-2014, 12:40 PM Reply   
Mercedes can set you up in an E class with 550 HP and carbon brakes in your AWD wagon. It's well over $100k but that's a bit of power and performance. Just remember to put the little family stickers on the back window.
Old     (LouZahr)      Join Date: Aug 2011       12-09-2014, 12:41 PM Reply   
We had a 2003 VW Passat wagon with the v6. After the experience we had with that vehicle I will never buy another VW/Audi product. Like Paul had with BMW the car knew when the warranty was up. Good thing I paid $2500 for the 50k extra miles on the warranty. Three days after I paid for the extended warranty some gasket failed during a -35 F day and it was a $2,800 fix. Then the heater core started to fail as well as the fans and dampers in the HVAC system. As soon as we hit 100k in miles we traded it in on a Land Rover Evoque. Which by the way is awesome!
Old     (Cabledog)      Join Date: Dec 2013       12-09-2014, 1:05 PM Reply   
Do you want all wheel drive or a true sports seadan/wagon? Unless you live in an area where you want all wheel drive for winter or ski resorts rear wheel drive is always going to provide a better sport driving experience. AWD cars typically have more weight over the front tires and tend to have more understeer than RWD cars. The power to weight ratio is also more favorable to a RWD car due to less weight and powertrain losses other than some of the in house tuner variants like the M’s S, RS, AMG, etc.

The spectrum of cars you mentioned spans quite a price range. What is most important? Is price your deciding factor?

Here’s my .02,
• Subrau = cheap but gets the job done in winter. Tree hugger (lower models) or boy racer wanna be rally driver (WRX sti) is what comes to mind when I think Subaru.
• Audi = Expensive but nice. Be prepared to pony up for the newer ones or pay maintenance & repairs on older models. Stay away from gen 1 MMI. Newer S models can be had with a supercharged V6 with positive reviews. Or dump serious cash (100K) on an RS7 with the 560hp V8. You gotta dream right,
• BMW = newer models have lost their soul but are still very fast. Not the best AWD system but the absolute best for a RWD performance sedan and a great daily driver.
• Vee Dub = R32 is a niche car. Cool, but boring. Just like every other Golf on the road other than the powertrain. Buy this if you have to have a German car but can’t afford a upmarket brand.
• Lexus = Lexus and sports/ performance sedan do not go together regardless of what the commercials say. IS250 AWD is a dog.
• Porsche = there is no substitute.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       12-09-2014, 1:07 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by rallyart View Post
Mercedes can set you up in an E class with 550 HP and carbon brakes in your AWD wagon. It's well over $100k but that's a bit of power and performance. Just remember to put the little family stickers on the back window.
And they get DESTROYED in depreciation too. I've been seeing 6-7 year old ones in the under $20k price range.
Old     (onlyinboards)      Join Date: Oct 2014       12-09-2014, 1:41 PM Reply   
Darren... .SWEET!
Old     (blackstang)      Join Date: Dec 2013       12-09-2014, 1:53 PM Reply   
I know it's not as classy as a Audi or a Mercedes but have you thought about the Taurus SHO?
They are a fun car, very reliable and pretty cheap,/easy to mod.
Old     (stealthall)      Join Date: Aug 2014       12-09-2014, 2:36 PM Reply   
Audi Quattro is the best AWD system. Period.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       12-09-2014, 2:47 PM Reply   
Unless things have changed, the Audi A3 with Quattro is extremely hard to find if not impossible. I leased a new A3 for my wife in 2013, and at the time, AWD A3s were not available new. Hers is front wheel drive. Maybe that has changed with the intro of the sedan and elimination of the hatchback for 2015.

Prior to the Audi, I bought her a Subaru Outback Turbo in 2006. The car was AMAZING in the snow. So much damn fun. But after a year the suspension turned to mush and at 80 mph it felt like the driver was going to lose control. Also, I fought with Subaru over the warped brake rotors twice after the dealer insisted that they were in spec, and I insisted that the car was unsafe to drive for my pregnant wife. The second time I emailed Subaru USA and told them I was going to trade it in for an Audi. Two days later my dealer called me to set up an appointment. Six months later, the rotors failed again and we gave up on the brand. I still believe you get a lot of car for the money, but I question the performance in certain areas. With that said, I recently sat in 2015 WRX and DAMN....I would rock it!

It really depends on what is important to you. Personally I love the performance of the German cars, and the feel of the interior. But I wouldn't count on a used one as a daily driver that is out of warranty. I have an E39 M5 that I drive mostly on the weekends only as my fun car. The rest of the time I'm making minor repairs on it in the garage. The alternator at 75,000 miles was $1000 for a refurbished one, and another $1200 for a water pump. (This is all parts ONLY) Oil changes are $125.......and that's doing them myself at home! At 80,000 miles it currently needs the steering rebuilt. That will be $2000. The rear CV is clicking....$500! It never ends but I still love her.

If I was buying a used AWD daily driver, I don't think it would be a German.
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013 Location: Vancouver WA       12-09-2014, 4:02 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
Unless things have changed, the Audi A3 with Quattro is extremely hard to find if not impossible. I leased a new A3 for my wife in 2013, and at the time, AWD A3s were not available new. Hers is front wheel drive. Maybe that has changed with the intro of the sedan and elimination of the hatchback for 2015.

Prior to the Audi, I bought her a Subaru Outback Turbo in 2006. The car was AMAZING in the snow. So much damn fun. But after a year the suspension turned to mush and at 80 mph it felt like the driver was going to lose control. Also, I fought with Subaru over the warped brake rotors twice after the dealer insisted that they were in spec, and I insisted that the car was unsafe to drive for my pregnant wife. The second time I emailed Subaru USA and told them I was going to trade it in for an Audi. Two days later my dealer called me to set up an appointment. Six months later, the rotors failed again and we gave up on the brand. I still believe you get a lot of car for the money, but I question the performance in certain areas. With that said, I recently sat in 2015 WRX and DAMN....I would rock it!

It really depends on what is important to you. Personally I love the performance of the German cars, and the feel of the interior. But I wouldn't count on a used one as a daily driver that is out of warranty. I have an E39 M5 that I drive mostly on the weekends only as my fun car. The rest of the time I'm making minor repairs on it in the garage. The alternator at 75,000 miles was $1000 for a refurbished one, and another $1200 for a water pump. (This is all parts ONLY) Oil changes are $125.......and that's doing them myself at home! At 80,000 miles it currently needs the steering rebuilt. That will be $2000. The rear CV is clicking....$500! It never ends but I still love her.

If I was buying a used AWD daily driver, I don't think it would be a German.
Who are you letting rape you for parts????

I found 2 alternators on BMAparts.com for your car for $250 - $300 and even Pelican parts had a reman bosch for $400. I got the best of the best higher output new Bosch alternator in CANADA when I got stranded in Whistler with my M3 and it was MAYBE $500 new.

Again, Pelican Parts has a brand new water pump for your car for $537 and BMA has one for $400.


I have a 98 M3 and I'm no stranger to BMW maintenance, but I find WAY better prices on parts than you're quoting.
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       12-09-2014, 5:07 PM Reply   
For what it's worth, I bought a brand new 2015 STi about 2 months ago. Thought it would be perfect for what I wanted. Drove it for 3 weeks and traded it....... Absolutely hated that thing. I had an S4 in the past, so maybe my expectations were too high..... Found a nice used 2013 RS5, and I am in love. Incredible car.
Old     (brycejb328)      Join Date: Aug 2009       12-09-2014, 7:41 PM Reply   
The test drive on the 07 S6 fell through today... re-scheduled for thursday. Has 72K miles on it, one owner... seems like it may be a good car!

I did drive a 2014 Subaru WRX wagon tonight. I can say that getting into the gas on that thing is a lot of fun, the rumble of that engine is beautiful sound!
.
Old     (brycejb328)      Join Date: Aug 2009       12-09-2014, 7:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixable View Post
For what it's worth, I bought a brand new 2015 STi about 2 months ago. Thought it would be perfect for what I wanted. Drove it for 3 weeks and traded it....... Absolutely hated that thing. I had an S4 in the past, so maybe my expectations were too high..... Found a nice used 2013 RS5, and I am in love. Incredible car.
Did you have issues with the WRX?

There is a 2013 WRX wagon locally with VERY low miles and the premium package... I guess I will see how I feel about it after driving some Audi's.

Thanks everyone for the feedback thus far.
Old     (bass10after)      Join Date: Feb 2010       12-09-2014, 8:42 PM Reply   
i'm surprised nobody suggested the cts wagon. Its not my cup of tea in wagon attire but it sure had great reviews when it came out. Its not short on power by any means and nothing rides like a cadillac.

Last edited by bass10after; 12-09-2014 at 8:47 PM.
Old     (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       12-10-2014, 7:03 AM Reply   
I don't get the whole wagon deal but some people don't get lifted truck so I under stand. But what's wrong with a sportier SUV. Like a SRT-8 Cherokee or audi Q7 or the newer Durango RT not a big dinosaur like a suburban.

Just asking.
Old     (brycejb328)      Join Date: Aug 2009       12-10-2014, 7:20 AM Reply   
funny you mention the sportier SUV, depending on how some things shake out... I may be a single car person in the future possible. The reason being is that I am going back to a townhouse at some point and would likely just get a "sporty suv" that can easily handle an axis a20.

I guess there is no way around the fact that even a sporty suv still feels like... well... a SUV.
Old     (brycejb328)      Join Date: Aug 2009       12-10-2014, 7:27 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass10after View Post
i'm surprised nobody suggested the cts wagon. Its not my cup of tea in wagon attire but it sure had great reviews when it came out. Its not short on power by any means and nothing rides like a cadillac.
Never even though of it..., I knew it existed, but didn't realize there was a AWD or a higher hp engine option. Looking at some pictures online, with a more European influenced rim selection... its pretty damn sharp.
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Old     (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       12-10-2014, 8:17 AM Reply   
I don't see anything wrong with this. Plus have you seen what their 1/4 miles times are stock!!!! low 13"s
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Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013 Location: Vancouver WA       12-10-2014, 8:24 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonblarc7 View Post
I don't get the whole wagon deal but some people don't get lifted truck so I under stand. But what's wrong with a sportier SUV. Like a SRT-8 Cherokee or audi Q7 or the newer Durango RT not a big dinosaur like a suburban.

Just asking.
I love my Euro Wagon. I've had plenty of SUV's and the only advantage of them is sometimes ground clearance and towing ability. That often comes at the expense of weight and MPG. if you don't need that, the car is a better fit. My Audi S6 Avant has more passenger and cargo space than most SUV's. It's also nice that since I have the typical 7' tall garage at my house that I can put a cartop box on for skiing and still go in and out the garage (and most parking garages) no problem. We go to Whistler every year and once I did it with an SUV and a cartop box and we had to take the box off to fit in the parking garage. that was a serious PITA.

Typically, the sportswagon will have better handling than most SUV's, even the sporty ones. I'm driving mine as a "car" the vast majority of the time and don't benefit from the robustness an SUV would provide.

I'm also one that has ZERO desire to have a big lifted truck. Sure, I get that trucks tow well. But beyond that, I see little use (outside of maybe mud boggin') for a big lifted truck. Don't get me wrong, I have been addicted to wheelin' for a LONG time and have a built rockcrawling Jeep that's on 35" beadlocks with air lockers front and rear and about every modification you can think of. But it's mods accomplishes a purpose--to make it more capable in extreme offroad conditions. (i.e. I've done the Rubicon, most of the awesome stuff in Moab, Fordyce Creek, etc.)

So I'm sure the fact I have zero want to have a truck contributes to me wanting a sportscar (or a purpose built wheelin' machine) over a "jack of all trades" type option. I don't want one size fits all. I have an M3 convertible for my sporty/fun/sunshine driving. I have my S6 Avant for rain/snow/utility/roadtrips/daily. I have my Jeep as my offroad playtoy. And I have my sportbike for when the M3 isn't aggressive enough tearing up the twisties or the track. I guess I'm all about specialization. (and FWIW, the wife has a Ridgeline (SUV/girl-truck) that is enough to get the job done towing the boat 10 miles to/from the launch. it's enough to get us by so we don't have to buy a 'real' truck)
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       12-10-2014, 10:12 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by brycejb328 View Post
Did you have issues with the WRX?

There is a 2013 WRX wagon locally with VERY low miles and the premium package... I guess I will see how I feel about it after driving some Audi's.

Thanks everyone for the feedback thus far.

No issues whatsoever. It just severely lacked refinement. Tons of little things that made the driving experience inferior. Most notably general comfort especially the seats.

Had I never owned an Audi or Bimmer, I probably would have been happy with it.
Old     (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: SF Bay Area       12-10-2014, 10:37 AM Reply   
^^take a look at the 2015's. especially the outback which is brand new from the ground up. The WRX interior on the 2015 is SIKKKKKKKKK
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Old     (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       12-10-2014, 10:42 AM Reply   
2015 Outback is nice, but no decent engine options. 0-60 in 9+, no thanks, make that 12+ at altitude. I am baffled by how many I see around Denver metro. Maybe they never go to the mountains??? Nothing worse than paying $30k plus for a new car and get smoked by a '82 Corolla on the way to Costco.
Old     (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: SF Bay Area       12-10-2014, 10:46 AM Reply   
They wont be the fastest, but they'll outperform anything in the deep snow or off-road.
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013 Location: Vancouver WA       12-10-2014, 11:06 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by alans View Post
2015 Outback is nice, but no decent engine options. 0-60 in 9+, no thanks, make that 12+ at altitude. I am baffled by how many I see around Denver metro. Maybe they never go to the mountains??? Nothing worse than paying $30k plus for a new car and get smoked by a '82 Corolla on the way to Costco.
It's probably just like here in the PNW (where like Subaru is the official car of about everyone). People around here don't care about going fast. Most people accelerate on freeway onramps at the "speed of government". it's pathetic and downright dangerous--especially since they just think that everyone else should yield to their slow approach. But that's driving in the PNW.
Old     (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       12-10-2014, 11:44 AM Reply   
For snow cars, I have had a '99 A4 2.8(PES Supercharged), '04 S4, '08 Outback XT, '10 WRX, '10 Forrester, and now a F-150 Ecoboost. On a snowy day headed over Berthoud pass, I would rank them in this order.
1. F-150 (4WD+Locking Rear Diff)
2. S4 / WRX
3. Forrester / Outback / A4
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013 Location: Vancouver WA       12-10-2014, 11:52 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by alans View Post
For snow cars, I have had a '99 A4 2.8(PES Supercharged), '04 S4, '08 Outback XT, '10 WRX, '10 Forrester, and now a F-150 Ecoboost. On a snowy day headed over Berthoud pass, I would rank them in this order.
1. F-150 (4WD+Locking Rear Diff)
2. S4 / WRX
3. Forrester / Outback / A4
Interesting perspective. the locking diff would only come into play if you get stuck. Certainly one of those things that isn't a big deal UNTIL you NEED it. (I have air lockers front and rear on my jeep).

But your post only speaks to snow capability. What insight do you have for them when you factor in the whole package?

Performance, luxury, enjoyment, utility, snow capability, style, aesthetics, cost of ownership, etc.
Old     (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       12-10-2014, 11:59 AM Reply   
I am in the boat business, so the F-150 is a necessity right now. If it wasn't for the whole towing thing, I would be in an S4 Avant. I owned mine from 5k-49k miles. I traded it when a CEL would not go away and my warranty was about to. It was my wife's car and we ended up with an '08 v8 4 Runner, which was also a really nice snow vehicle.

Yes, the rear locking diff is awesome if you get in a jam, but it is also awesome for rescuing people out of ditches. I would never even think about it with the S4.
Old     (Redheadd)      Join Date: Apr 2014       12-10-2014, 12:08 PM Reply   
2014 subaru crosstrek is a dog but with blizzacks it handles almost as good as my dodge ram in heavy snow. As a matter of fact throw blizzacks on anything and your good.
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013 Location: Vancouver WA       12-10-2014, 12:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by alans View Post
I am in the boat business, so the F-150 is a necessity right now. If it wasn't for the whole towing thing, I would be in an S4 Avant. I owned mine from 5k-49k miles. I traded it when a CEL would not go away and my warranty was about to. It was my wife's car and we ended up with an '08 v8 4 Runner, which was also a really nice snow vehicle.

Yes, the rear locking diff is awesome if you get in a jam, but it is also awesome for rescuing people out of ditches. I would never even think about it with the S4.
I think I recognize your username from the Audiworld (and now Quattroworld) days... I was "IGOZOOM97A4" back then with a brilliant yellow A4 1.8t.

I'm now just "trayson" and have happily upgraded to my S6 Avant. :-)
Old     (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       12-10-2014, 12:47 PM Reply   
Haha, yep I was JAlanS11 and S4SNOW on those forums
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       12-10-2014, 4:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by migs View Post
^^take a look at the 2015's. especially the outback which is brand new from the ground up. The WRX interior on the 2015 is SIKKKKKKKKK
My STi was a 2015........ Interior was good.....for an Impreza. It was crap compared to my RS5 though. My 5 is also much better in snow. The STi was way too front biased unless I manually locked the center diff. Problem is, it would push really bad with the diff locked. The Audi controls the center and rear diff to balance handling on slippery conditions...... I noticed a huge difference. Same snow tires on both cars, only they are wider on the audi. (Which doesn't help)
Old     (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: SF Bay Area       12-10-2014, 8:43 PM Reply   
You're comparing an STI to a RS5, c'mon man. That's like comparing a Supra to a Nautique


Just kidiiiiiiiiiinnngggggggggg
Old     (alcarlaw1)      Join Date: Jun 2007       12-11-2014, 2:33 AM Reply   
Do you guys get the Audi A6 3.0tdi biturbo? Absolutely awesome car. 60mph in 5 seconds, 310hp, 44mpg (real mpg not the American version!) and being a diesel sooooooo much torque. I've got its older brother, the c6 3.0tdi, which can be remapped up to around 2985bhp, which would be plenty quick enough for me. Plus it pulls the boat ('00 Xstar) so much better than the X5 it replaced.

Last edited by alcarlaw1; 12-11-2014 at 2:35 AM. Reason: .
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013 Location: Vancouver WA       12-11-2014, 9:50 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by alcarlaw1 View Post
Do you guys get the Audi A6 3.0tdi biturbo? Absolutely awesome car. 60mph in 5 seconds, 310hp, 44mpg (real mpg not the American version!) and being a diesel sooooooo much torque. I've got its older brother, the c6 3.0tdi, which can be remapped up to around 2985bhp, which would be plenty quick enough for me. Plus it pulls the boat ('00 Xstar) so much better than the X5 it replaced.
I want to see pics of the Audi pulling the boat!!!
Old     (cbarguy1)      Join Date: Dec 2012       12-11-2014, 12:02 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by brycejb328 View Post
Never even though of it..., I knew it existed, but didn't realize there was a AWD or a higher hp engine option. Looking at some pictures online, with a more European influenced rim selection... its pretty damn sharp.
That was going to be my suggestion but someone beat me to it. That picture is of the "V" model which is crazy fast (560 hp) but not AWD. The standard V6 is decent and comes in AWD. Darn nice car really. And I like Audi's and BMW's but I don't like the high cost of ownership. Especially on older ones. I'd steer clear unless cost isn't an issue.
Old     (rottenland)      Join Date: Sep 2013       12-11-2014, 2:01 PM Reply   
Volvo V70R is a sweet AWD wagon that you rarely see. It stopped production in 2007 so it may be older/less expensive than you were thinking, and the new 2015.5 V60 T6 R-Design AWD may be too new and expensive.

Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       12-12-2014, 6:00 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by migs View Post
You're comparing an STI to a RS5, c'mon man. That's like comparing a Supra to a Nautique


Just kidiiiiiiiiiinnngggggggggg
Absolutely unfair comparison for sure..... I was mostly pointing out that there IS a difference, and a WRX is no Audi. The price obviously reflects it as well. Seems the OP is open to either option, just like I was. I tried to take the smart/cheaper option, but I had been spoiled with an Audi in the past. WRX is a nice car.
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       12-12-2014, 6:18 AM Reply   
if you want long term and are not totally concerned about the car being "track capable" the certified mercedes program is really good. I bought an e350 bluetec for my work car (there wagon with the v8 in all wheel drive is a nice car) and it came with a 5yr unlimited mile bumper to bumper. I drive 65k a year, so it was a no brainer and got it 2012 28k for 34 k you may find a great deal on a certified for a great price.

I would find an m5 wagon if everything else didn't matter. my buddy has one, not sure of the year, killer car and uber cool in the wagon i think its a 2013
Old     (Greeko)      Join Date: May 2013       12-12-2014, 9:31 AM Reply   
Loved my 07 Audi S4 and my 11 Audi S4.

07 had an amazing V8 that sucked fuel like an evil doer..mind you at $2.50 a gallon..who cares!

the 2011 is a great vehicle, good fuel economy, cheaper interior than the previous generation...

Overall I loved both of them. The v8 was a slightly higher maintenance including the oil consumption issue...
Old     (rottenland)      Join Date: Sep 2013       12-12-2014, 4:00 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
I would find an m5 wagon if everything else didn't matter. my buddy has one, not sure of the year, killer car and uber cool in the wagon i think its a 2013
Not sure what country you are in, but the current body style M5 (same as 2013) was never produced as a wagon, and the previous generation M5 wagon was never sold in north america.

The V10 M5 Touring is a sweet car, but you would have to wait until 2032 to register it in the US.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       12-12-2014, 5:35 PM Reply   
The WRX is NOT a premium car.

I am not surprised that people complain and trade them in. I just picked up a 15 and it is NOT more premium despite its appearance. If you want cheap performance literally nothing compares, but they take special maintenance and a special type to enjoy. I would not reccomend unless you're outting performance 1st. If you were expecting an upscale ride an interior you are in for a big shock(that will be filled with rattles)
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       12-12-2014, 5:56 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixable View Post
My STi was a 2015........ Interior was good.....for an Impreza. It was crap compared to my RS5 though. My 5 is also much better in snow. The STi was way too front biased unless I manually locked the center diff. Problem is, it would push really bad with the diff locked. The Audi controls the center and rear diff to balance handling on slippery conditions...... I noticed a huge difference. Same snow tires on both cars, only they are wider on the audi. (Which doesn't help)
I find it interesting that you are complaining about the STi's snow handling. It has 3 LSD's a 4th with manual lock, vs the audi with 2(or is it one? They use too many damn electronics) open differentials and 1 LSD. Really the audi should be no better than my WRX in the snow from a dead stop aside from the added weight for traction. Nevermind steering or stopping though, that thing is a freakin battleship.

For normal snow driving auto + should be used. There is almost no reason to lock to the differential unless you are stuck. The car will push like a pig because you've bound the c.diff to a 50/50 ratio so the car cannot send power elsewhere and compensate for any understeer. Auto + for very slick roads, auto for normal driving and all weather situations, auto - for hard driving. Full lock for getting out of snow banks. There is almost no reason to mess with the settings outside of auto unless you are at the track or very stuck.
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       12-13-2014, 7:43 AM Reply   
that m5 wagon is a 2010, talked to him last night, my bad, thought it was newer, he bought it used, and it was imported from europe, he bought it in 2013, so i guess its not an option.
Old     (magic)      Join Date: Mar 2002       12-18-2014, 8:39 PM Reply   
We had an Audi S4 Avant (wagon) with the 4.2L V8 engine. Loved loved loved that car. Drove it to over 110K miles with only oil changes, scheduled maintenance, and the recall for the coils. Those cars are a bit front heavy and will understeer when being pushed along, but when the front wheels grip it's kinda fun to recover the turn I'd love an RS6 Wagon, maybe in a few years.
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       12-19-2014, 4:37 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by magic View Post
I'd love an RS6 Wagon, maybe in a few years.
RS6 avant is such an awesome car.

I wish they sold them in the US.
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013 Location: Vancouver WA       12-19-2014, 12:55 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by brycejb328 View Post

I am going to test drive a S6 this afternoon!!
So, how did the test drive go?

I went to a local "Audi Beer Night" where a bunch of local Audi enthusiasts got together to eat, drink, and talk cars...

I continue to be surprised and impressed with the amount of love and respect that the S6 Avant gets. The enthusiasts in the Audi community have a ton of love for the S6, and it really feels good to own something that's sought after and respected. It just confirms and ratifies that I made a good choice.
Old     (brycejb328)      Join Date: Aug 2009       12-22-2014, 3:14 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by trayson View Post
So, how did the test drive go?

I went to a local "Audi Beer Night" where a bunch of local Audi enthusiasts got together to eat, drink, and talk cars...

I continue to be surprised and impressed with the amount of love and respect that the S6 Avant gets. The enthusiasts in the Audi community have a ton of love for the S6, and it really feels good to own something that's sought after and respected. It just confirms and ratifies that I made a good choice.
Due to some unfortunate circumstances, I actually had to call it off and won't be picking up a new car until some things change... pretty bummed.. was looking forward to doing some test driving!
Old     (aricsx15)      Join Date: Jan 2014       12-22-2014, 8:28 PM Reply   
trayson you seriously have drank the Audi S6 kool-aid.. lol

If i was getting a wagon, it'd be a E91 2011 335i x drive BMW. I have a 2011 e90 328 and I love it, but lacks power and AWD. I wouldn't recommend any older german car unless you have deep pockets for repair, or have mechanical knowledge. Not a fan of audis AWD at ALL. Way to front biased to me, and understeers like a mofo. My mom has a Q5 Quattro, and test drove an A4 before getting my 328. I drive my buddies 2015 STi all the time, and with the diff in auto mode there is no understeer at all. May not be the most luxurious car, but man its a blast to drive. There are obviously a lot of choices, but like we say for boats go drive em.


With that being said, my brother has a 2014 IS250 and it has NO BALLS. Sorry for the unforeseen circumstances, at least this thread has given you some food for thought and a LOT of audi boners. haha
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       12-22-2014, 9:16 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by aricsx15 View Post
If i was getting a wagon, it'd be a E91 2011 335i x drive BMW.
no such thing.
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013 Location: Vancouver WA       12-22-2014, 9:17 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by aricsx15 View Post
trayson you seriously have drank the Audi S6 kool-aid.. lol

If i was getting a wagon, it'd be a E91 2011 335i x drive BMW. I have a 2011 e90 328 and I love it, but lacks power and AWD. I wouldn't recommend any older german car unless you have deep pockets for repair, or have mechanical knowledge. Not a fan of audis AWD at ALL. Way to front biased to me, and understeers like a mofo. My mom has a Q5 Quattro, and test drove an A4 before getting my 328. I drive my buddies 2015 STi all the time, and with the diff in auto mode there is no understeer at all. May not be the most luxurious car, but man its a blast to drive. There are obviously a lot of choices, but like we say for boats go drive em.


With that being said, my brother has a 2014 IS250 and it has NO BALLS. Sorry for the unforeseen circumstances, at least this thread has given you some food for thought and a LOT of audi boners. haha
Um, can you say PRICE????? I can't afford an E9x ANYTHING. I got my S6 with 110k miles and a freshly rebuilt warrantied transmission for under $15k. I like the BMW wagons, but anything halfway decent was well out of my financial means.

As far as owning an older Audi, yes, I have a reasonable amount of mechanical knowledge. I justify owning one because I can research problems with the help of all the forums and online resources. I can fix a lot of things on my own, and I have great relationships with people at indy shops and the like for the things I can't handle myself. Also, I can afford to have downtime because it's not my only vehicle. So I can take the time to research, to find better deals on parts and to fix what I can myself while I drive my other vehicles.

Yes, there's a reason why Audis take a serious dive in resale as they get over 100k miles. it's because most don't have the ability to take on the risk of ownership during that season of the car's life. to match the size of the s6, the only thing Subaru has to offer is their Legacy GT or Outback. I tried to talk myself into one, but they're dogs and have their own set of problems. Additionally, in the Pacific NW, the subarus might as well be made of GOLD. they hold their resale value so well it's ridiculous. They'll run WAY more money for a lot less car. And the BMW's, I simply can't afford one that would in any way compare with the S6.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure I could be happy in a 535xi Touring. But then I wouldn't be able to afford my boat!!!


And as far as Audi's AWD, it handles great in the snow and that's really all I care about. I never drive it agressively in the twisties because I have my M3 and my sportbike. so I could really care less about how it might handle on spirited driving. It's a road trip car and the snow/rain wagon for me.

the S6 Avant is a very unique car. there weren't that many of them brought into the USA and they're probably not for everyone. I happen to be a good fit for one though. Doesn't sound like it'd be a good match for you.

Last edited by trayson; 12-22-2014 at 9:23 PM.
Old     (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: SF Bay Area       12-23-2014, 5:23 PM Reply   
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