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Old     (dirwoody)      Join Date: Apr 2003       05-04-2011, 11:13 AM Reply   
Doing research into a new ballast system, and I've got it all nailed down, except for the thru hulls. I've seen and heard of a bunch of different methods with these, but we're not completely sold on anything yet. We're planning on currently running 3 - 1200 Tsunami's, and possibly expanding to 4 this winter. Looking at a couple of options, and wanting an opinion on them:
1: Using two 3/4" with 2 pumps off each
2: using two 1" mushroom type thru hulls and running 2 pumps off each
(not sure if I need the extra 1/4 inch - but I know the flow would be nice)
3: One 1.5" thru hull with a manifold system for the pumps
4: using the pump(s) as a thru-hull as in the attached picture (taken from WakeMakers). I know there would be more holes in the boat, but this seems like a pretty simple solution to any of the ones above. Thoughts on using this?
Oh, and because I know it will be asked, this is going in an '89 Maristar 240 (old school, but the wake is very nice)
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Old     (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       05-04-2011, 11:45 AM Reply   
Pumps as the tru hulls would obviously be the cheapest/easiest option but I wouldn't do it. If a pump cracks or a hose comes off then it will start filling the boat with no way to shut it off. Also, you won't be able to change a pump cartridge with the boat in the water if you can't shut it off.

My ballast parts from WakeMakers are on the UPS truck for delivery right now. The cheapest and safest option was to do individual 3/4" bronze thru hulls with bronze ball valves. The pumps will be screwed right into the ball valves. I'm using the 800 GPH pumps though due to the easier/cheaper plumbing though. For the 1200s I would do individual 3/4" thu hulls. I'd probably go with the Rule 1100 GPH pumps instead of the Tsunami 1200 because the Rule will screw into a regular 3/4" NPT valve with no adapter needed.
Old     (dirwoody)      Join Date: Apr 2003       05-04-2011, 1:05 PM Reply   
Was doing a little more research, and I know EPIC uses the system above.
Jeff - I completely understand what you're saying about not being able to shut them off if something breaks, but aren't that worried about it I guess....I mean, if boats are coming from the factory fitted like that, how big of an issue is it.....but you're right, would be best if I just went with individual holes for each pump....I'll have to crunch some numbers
Old     (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       05-04-2011, 1:34 PM Reply   
It seems like even the OEMs will only do the plastic thru hulls horizontally through the bottom of the transom and not vertically through the bottom of the hull. The only reasoning I can think of behind that is if you ran over a log or something it would be more likely to damage the plastic thru hull on the bottom. You wouldn't be very likely to impact an object at high speed on the rear face of the transom.

You definitely won't be able to fill while underway with them poking out through the transom but aerator pumps connected to a mushroom fitting on the bottom probably wouldn't work very well at speed anyway.
Old     (roomservice)      Join Date: Dec 2006       05-04-2011, 1:39 PM Reply   
Yes, Epic used to use the 3 tsunami 1200 for fill and another 3 to drain. (all new models are fast fill waste gate system now) tsunamis took about 10 minutes to fill 1500 lbs per tank. Never had a single leak issue at all. They go thru the hull and have screens on the outside to keep debris out. how are you planning to drain? Just know that if you reverse polarity on the tsunamis it will work but bench testing showed pump life will decrease significantly when you do that. Tsunamis are cheap enough to go with 3 in and 3 out, makes it faster to go reg. to goofy when surfing too. When running the hoses, make sure you put an arch that goes above the top of the tank full level so water wont seep into the tank when the pump is not running.
Old     (dirwoody)      Join Date: Apr 2003       05-04-2011, 2:19 PM Reply   
Greg - Was planning on running 3 more pumps to drain, just seems best. I was planning on using check valves, but if running an arch above the top of the bag works, I can just do it that way too. What do you suggest? I know Wakemakers has the vented loup piece, but check valves are much cheaper, so I was planning on going that route, unless there is a better way.
Old     (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       05-04-2011, 2:22 PM Reply   
2 or 3 1" mushroom intakes with a bronze valve connected, then out to the hose....
Old     (twelve02)      Join Date: Aug 2010       05-04-2011, 5:01 PM Reply   
I am building an automated ballast into my Sanger V230 as we speak. I'm using 1" Bronze Thru-hull Intakes connected to a 1" Bronze Street Elbow that a 1" Bronze Ball Valve screws onto. I'm using Johnson Ultra Ballast Reversible Pumps so that I only have to use 1 pump and 1 switch per side. The pumps are reversible so the water will drain out the same hole as they were pulled up. I'm using the 1100 lb. Fly High Pro X Series Jumbo V-Drive Surf Sacs.

I spoke with the guys at wakemakers about the best setup and this is what they recommended as one of the cleanest setups for my boat. This is a commonly used setup for new boats as well.
Old     (twelve02)      Join Date: Aug 2010       05-04-2011, 5:03 PM Reply   
I am building an automated ballast into my Sanger V230 as we speak. I'm using 1" Bronze Thru-hull Intakes connected to a 1" Bronze Street Elbow that a 1" Bronze Ball Valve screws onto. I'm using Johnson Ultra Ballast Reversible Pumps so that I only have to use 1 pump and 1 switch per side. The pumps are reversible so the water will drain out the same hole as they were pulled up. I'm using the 1100 lb. Fly High Pro X Series Jumbo V-Drive Surf Sacs.

I spoke with the guys at wakemakers about the best setup and this is what they recommended as one of the cleanest setups for my boat. This is a commonly used setup for new boats as well.
Old     (epic1)      Join Date: Oct 2006       05-04-2011, 10:50 PM Reply   
so my understanding of a check valve might be wrong. But in the above situation, the vent loop serves as a stop to a syphon, right? A check valve only allows water flow in one direction? How could a check valve be used in place of a vent loop? Not doubting, just trying to figure this out.
Old     (Bumpass1)      Join Date: Oct 2010       05-05-2011, 3:55 AM Reply   
Check it this thread from the Supra forums. They go into detail about check valves and vent loops

http://www.supraboats.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=4595
Old     (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       05-05-2011, 6:04 AM Reply   
Simple a check valve serves two purposes one to keep water out when the overboard is submerged and also locks water in the sack and two it stops air from entering the system when draining so the sack completely empties and raisins
Old     (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       05-05-2011, 6:07 AM Reply   
In short vented loops are necessary for bags below the water line (i.e. Ski locker) and will prevent both passive filling and emptying. Check valves are sufficient and easier to plumb for bags that sit above the water line (i.e. bags that sit on the floor) since they won't fill passively (You can't siphon up hill) and all you have to worry about is them emptying. You could use vented loops for bags above the waterline too if you prefer.

BTW a vented loop is just a molded piece of hose with a small check valve at the peak. The check valve lets air in but doesn't let water out to break the siphon effect. A loop above bag height in the hose without a "vent" will not completely prevent the siphon effect but it will make it less likely to get started to begin with. It depends on how much positive pressure is created in your system when your underway. If you have a scupper thru-hull you will generate a lot of pressure underway and it will be tough to prevent it so you will likely need a vented loop. With a plain mushroom thru-hull there are a lot of variables involved so you may be able to get away with just a high loop in the hose or you may need a vented loop.

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