New MB Boats......What the duck?????

Disclaimer to the sensitive.....I'm in no way bashing MB boats...just observations...I'm not an engineer or a subject matter expert in regards to fiberglass/gelcoat.


Was checking out a variety of new boats with a buddy today. I was shocked when I was able push in the side of the MB hull much more than expected. To be honest....I've never seen a hull with so much flex. First thing that came to mind is would it spider crack down the road. Also, wonder how bad the damage would be if the boat slammed against the dock. Who knows...maybe it will fine but made me think a little.

what were you pushing with a forklift?

seems like some obvious trolling to me......

Not a troll. Was just pushing with my hand. Go try it for yourself. Larsons in Rancho Cordova has 2 of them on the show room floor....pick one. The boats are sweet....just makes you wonder if MB is cutting back just a little to much to keep costs down. But then again, it may be just fine.

It is easy to get strength with mass. Just keep piling it on. You can see the brute force approach with bridges and old stone buildings. Then, you see great engineering where mass and weight is kept to a minimum and the result is a very strong, lightweight Porsche that out-performs most everything else. You also have really cheap stuff were the build quality and engineering are substandard and it simply does not last or can take the punishment it needs to (cheap ratchets and sockets at the surplus store). I don't know anything about MB, but I would not discount a design or a build from an established, reputable company without some hard data to base it upon.

http://www.mbsports.net/accessory_vi...y=factory_tour

This should give you a better idea of build quality. Ive tested a few 2012 MB's and while I cant relate to what you've experienced I can say that I have taken the boat through its paces in super chop, double ups, etc and it remained solid and smooth. Furthermore I have not seen anyone have the same issue you have brought up.

Maybe it has dent resistant panels... Like a Saturn [car].

I noticed that the Malibu's and Axis boats have a bit more flex on the sides of the hull compared to other manufacturers, but you don't hear of any problems from their owners either.

Originally Posted by Preston

I noticed that the Malibu's and Axis boats have a bit more flex on the sides of the hull compared to other manufacturers, but you don't hear of any problems from their owners either.

The side of my 2011 Axis A22 appears to have more flex than my 08' Moomba XLV but yet the Axis has a far superior ride in chop and is solid as well through chop and double up type rollers whereas my previous rattled and slapped.

While I am an engineer and yet I haven't been thumb testing my hull much, I can tell you that my MB feels rock solid and handles chop and huge chop much better than my previous 2000 BU VLX. I can also let you know that I accidentally tested my MB rub-rail when my boat tagged a cement dock due to a "new boat" driving error. I went back expecting to find a nightmare but I found ZERO damage. So, I would say my MB is built as good as any if not better.

Its the same with every boat on the planet although in varying degrees,thicker where they need to be and not so thick where they don't need to be.

Malibu had referred to that as their Flex Hull

I have had (8) MB's in the last (6) years. Not one had a spider crack or did I feel the flex you speak of. We put a fair amount of hours on them every year with no issues. Like GD, we drove double ups, chop, yacht wakes and misc stuff with no issues. I have spent a fair amount of time in the factory and the last thing MB ever would do is skimp. When everyone else is going to plastic parts, they went to billet. There is a ton of places they could save money and choose not so I doubt they would start by skimping on the hull.

I've just never seen that type of flex before. None of my Nautiques or Mastercrafts flexed like the MB. I'm glad to hear the flex doesn't seem to be a problem. I'll be on the market for a new boat in a couple of years and MB seems to be on the top of the list along with Sanger. I really love the ballast system and the layout. I usually keep my boats for many years so long term durability is very important.....along with price, thus why Nautique & Mastercraft are now out of the question.

MB hulls have a lifetime warranty and a 2 year, yes two year, gelcoat warranty. Stop worrying and go buy one.

I was chasing this MB F21 but couldn't catch it to thumb test it...

Originally Posted by downfortheride

I was chasing this MB F21 but couldn't catch it to thumb test it...

greaet wake. can't resist asking, is that stock or with add'l ballast. if stock, how many people in the boat)?

Originally Posted by dhill

greaet wake. can't resist asking, is that stock or with add'l ballast. if stock, how many people in the boat)?

^ ditto

wave looks redonkulus

We had 4 adults and 2 small kids in the boat with an extra 450 in the nose. BOOM! This MB is dialed for sure!!!

I love all the people who question MB (hull flex does that really matter?), If you have not ridden the wake, you must try it. The flex you are referring to in the hull? Wow?!?! Boats have warranties for a reason. Yes you are correct it is not a 1991 Nautique Excel, the hull flex is not the same either. Come out and ride my wake, I can almost guarantee you a knee injury if you wanted one

There is no boat out there which is the same size with a wake that can even come close to an MB. That's right I said it. Burn me at the stake. Who wants to buy one? I know of a few for sale for a big discount from new. We're all getting 2012s, they are that good.

Boat show season is almost here kids time to buy used and save yourselves some money

23' with wake sized for mere mortals (ballast half full and a four adult crew):

I can understand people questioning MB.

I sit in my 2012 21WB shaking my head thinking how did I get such a nice boat for such a low price. Quality, functionalty, custom style and value all in one.

Originally Posted by downfortheride

We had 4 adults and 2 small kids in the boat with an extra 450 in the nose. BOOM! This MB is dialed for sure!!!

YES IT IS!! congrats. that wake looks perfect. i''d make those same persons go with me everytime and sit in the exact same spots

Another for scale (23' with half full ballast):

Josh, that wake looks photoshopped! Thats a beautiful wake!

Originally Posted by shawndoggy

Another for scale (23' with half full ballast):

That's great but aren't you like 5'5"?

Originally Posted by 05mobiuslsv

That's great but aren't you like 5'5"?

5'9", 6' with the afro.

Lol

GD ~ MB is at the top of the game for sure! My bro's F21 is solid and the wake is consistent day to day, lake to lake. Photoshopped... No way! I have been a fan of MB since another bro of mine picked up a 2007 B52 23' and the wake is AWESOME. All we do is stock on both boats and 400 - 500 in the bow and its perfect. Fit, finish and price they can't be beat... Can't wait for the boat show to check out the new MB's!

Different day... 2 adults, 450 nose, 300 on the floor and stock full. 25 MPH

To me the wake says it all,with top o the line fit and finish to boot?BUY BABY BUY!!!

I love how DFTR always posts a picture of a tantrum. every single time....

Cause that 's the only pics that I look cool and shows the wake at the same time. See this isn't as cool, LOL.

Come on bro, you still look cool.

Originally Posted by slowwwflowww

To me the wake says it all,with top o the line fit and finish to boot?BUY BABY BUY!!!

They aren't quite there yet, when they are I'm in. Waiting on a couple more changes.

right now MB is absolutely killing it, i think they have bright things coming if they can keep prices down without loosing quality

granted ive never seen one... but these pics make them look damn fine and that wake looks great!

Originally Posted by 05mobiuslsv

They aren't quite there yet, when they are I'm in. Waiting on a couple more changes.

what things are you waiting on?

Josh, your wake pic is one of the finest wake pics I have ever seen. That wake is awesome looking.

I have 390 in 6 lead bars and 200 in 2 leadwake bags so I should be able to reproduce that in my 2012 21WB.

I'm not a mb owner, but I'm a big fan. The pics don't lie; the wakes are huge and clean. I have never ridden behind a boat that has a wake as clean as MB's i've ridden the last few years. I'm not saying a picture perfect wake is necessarily better for boarding, but there is just a different look to the MB wakes.

Originally Posted by smitty1258

what things are you waiting on?

Redesign of the driver seat/dash area, I hear it's in the works.

BTW, I only got my MB recently so this is why I have not tuned the wake yet. Now that the boat is broken in and minor kinks are worked out, it's time to tune the wake.

Originally Posted by 05mobiuslsv

Redesign of the driver seat/dash area, I hear it's in the works.

Cool, I actually kinda like the drivers seat, but the dash could use a rework for sure

GD ~ Dustin Nell just posted up top and this is his boat. The pic don't lie and his is dialed in!!! We fill the sock plump full, 450 in the nose and depending on how many people if we fill the 300 lbs on the floor. 24 - 25 mph with the plate all the way up and the wake will send you to the moon. Give it a go and let us know what you think! You have one good looking TWB by the way... Congrats.
Here's another pic I got the same day... This shows you how the wake can really BOOT ya...

Originally Posted by 05mobiuslsv

Redesign of the driver seat/dash area, I hear it's in the works.

The driver seat was redesigned with the 2012 model. I have owned both... the new one is great. It doesn't wrap around the side nearly as much as the old one making entry and exit much easier.

Here is the old one, followed by several new ones...

That's not the change I'm talking about, knew about the seat. I like that seat but even with the bolster down the windshield cuts me off at the shoulders and I'm only 6'2". I heard the cockpit will be redesigned.

Originally Posted by 05mobiuslsv

That's not the change I'm talking about, knew about the seat. I like that seat but even with the bolster down the windshield cuts me off at the shoulders and I'm only 6'2". I heard the cockpit will be redesigned.

I don't understand. You want the seat lower?

Anyone have pics of the wake with the boat completely slammed? Talking like 1100 sacks in each rear compartment and 1000 triangle now sack? Ive never been in one so idk if that's possible in these boats. From the pics the wake is scary big with 450 in the bow. I couldn't imagine the wake with all that weight in it!

Originally Posted by tn_rider

Anyone have pics of the wake with the boat completely slammed? Talking like 1100 sacks in each rear compartment and 1000 triangle now sack? Ive never been in one so idk if that's possible in these boats. From the pics the wake is scary big with 450 in the bow. I couldn't imagine the wake with all that weight in it!

I want to see that as well but maybe something closer to 600's in each rear locker with 1000-1200 in the bow. Like you said, maybe it would jsut be too much weight and the wake wouldn't clean up but I would like to see someone try.

I was in Larson's last night, getting winterizing supplies...Thought I'd try the "thumb to hull flex test"! Did'nt work for me? No different than any other boat? I tell you what though...These just might be my next boat!

Oh ya, a Green Axis had just showed up! Still on the trailer...Still in wraps! Gotta check this one out too!

The funny thing is that "new" seat is very close to the seat that I have in my 2000 MB. Only difference is the new one has a bit more of a peak on top and the flip up.

Originally Posted by ixfe

I don't understand. You want the seat lower?

I'd rather the dash be more than 3' off the floor.

Originally Posted by tn_rider

Anyone have pics of the wake with the boat completely slammed? Talking like 1100 sacks in each rear compartment and 1000 triangle now sack? Ive never been in one so idk if that's possible in these boats. From the pics the wake is scary big with 450 in the bow. I couldn't imagine the wake with all that weight in it!

the Ennen brothers run 7000 I think

7000 Holy hell... We put 3200 in my bro's and it wouldn't get on plane with the 409 engine. I'm sure it don't have the low end prop and high altitude but 7000 WOW! Let's see a decent pic of that wake...

Yes when I ride/shoot with Mikey, he loads up his 21 with 6-7k and it is the gnarliest wake ever! I love that boat! Propped with the big engine it get's on plane pretty quick and that wake is mackin! I'll throw up some pics

No where near the weight he throws in it at home he didn't have all his lead because this was on his way back home from picking up his new boat so we decided to meet up with Schwenne at Shasta. I love the look of the MB's the look like p-51 mustangs to me!

Not bad for a lake that's only 8 feet deep!

Right on Riley... Can't wait to see this wake! Thanks for posting up.

D.F.T.R josh and myself are going to post some groups of shots of the wake from my F21 tomcat. with any luck it will happen this weekend. We will do stock photos, ballast and give all the info as far as weight, speed, and any other piece of info we can provide to help those of you get the most from your MB boats. Feel free to post any and all comments as we are trying to help everyone get booted to the moon. If you love your sport live it! and always be D.F.T.R!

Originally Posted by steezyshots

Not bad for a lake that's only 8 feet deep!

Isn't that a double up? I would expect atleast that kind of air from any decent wake boat. In the other pics the wake looks sick!

Originally Posted by 05mobiuslsv

I'd rather the dash be more than 3' off the floor.

I agree. The dash is really low which makes the steering wheel low. Might not help that I'm over 6 feet and everything is usually built for someone 5'6" to 5'7". For me, the drivers seat is set to far away from the side of the boat making it uncomfortable to place my arm on the rest.

Originally Posted by badhabit

I agree. The dash is really low which makes the steering wheel low. Might not help that I'm over 6 feet and everything is usually built for someone 5'6" to 5'7". For me, the drivers seat is set to far away from the side of the boat making it uncomfortable to place my arm on the rest.

Shoot... all these comments about the seat, dash height, etc. have me scratching my head. I've been behind the wheel of both TWB and F21 for 300 hours over the past three seasons and none of this ever occured to me once. I'm 5'11" if that matters. With the booster down, I can actually see the water through the windshield. I like this position for cruising at 30+ mph. With the booster up my view is above the windshield, which I like when I'm pulling a rider and watching for debris on the river.

But I understand how frustrating the wrong seating position can be. I almost bought a VTX twice. I wanted to like the boat so badly because I like Malibu and i wanted a decent ski wake for my wife. But I just couldn't get over the seat position relative to the top of the windshield. Even with the booster down, my head (at least part of it) was above the windshield. I assumed this was due to the really low windshield on the Bu. Whatever it was, it was annoying.

On the 2012 F21 the entire top deck was redesigned. One of many improvements they made was a deeper, more comfortable arm rest for the driver. It is also covered in padded vinyl (on my '09 it was just bare).

It's funny how on some boats people complain the dash is too high and impedes visibility. On others it's too low. Can't please 'em all, I guess. Maybe the solution is an adjustable seat (up/down) like Supra has.

Just saw these pics on Facebook. New carpet options on the MB's.

MB's keep looking better by the day. That carpet looks nice. Something different then just a single color but not too crazy. Is the carpet fixed in there or is it some sort of removable carpet section?

If I heard right that carpet kit is held in by magnets...

yep, drop in carpet with magnets instead of snaps. magnets are under the fiberglass so you can't see them.

Originally Posted by ixfe

Shoot... all these comments about the seat, dash height, etc. have me scratching my head. I've been behind the wheel of both TWB and F21 for 300 hours over the past three seasons and none of this ever occured to me once. I'm 5'11" if that matters. With the booster down, I can actually see the water through the windshield. I like this position for cruising at 30+ mph. With the booster up my view is above the windshield, which I like when I'm pulling a rider and watching for debris on the river.

But I understand how frustrating the wrong seating position can be. I almost bought a VTX twice. I wanted to like the boat so badly because I like Malibu and i wanted a decent ski wake for my wife. But I just couldn't get over the seat position relative to the top of the windshield. Even with the booster down, my head (at least part of it) was above the windshield. I assumed this was due to the really low windshield on the Bu. Whatever it was, it was annoying.

On the 2012 F21 the entire top deck was redesigned. One of many improvements they made was a deeper, more comfortable arm rest for the driver. It is also covered in padded vinyl (on my '09 it was just bare).

It's funny how on some boats people complain the dash is too high and impedes visibility. On others it's too low. Can't please 'em all, I guess. Maybe the solution is an adjustable seat (up/down) like Supra has.

I gotta say my comments were about the 23 twb only never been in the 21. The 23 is the only boat I'd even consider from MB. It weird how two guys views can be 180, I've spent ALOT of time in VTX's and never noticed what you describe. I do know it's not the case on my 23.

So here is a thought for you. The price of a F21 tomcat in Utah as of February 2011 was around $56k loaded up quite nice. In October 1st 2011 the price for the new 2012 is around $66k. Amazing boats, yes. But at what point does MB say " our price's are getting out of controll, can the average family buy our boat?" is the new MB's with all the changes worth the increasing price? In february if you wanted a NEW wake boat and you did not want to completely break the bank you had 2 options. A MB or the Axis. At $66k I would be out, they hit $70k+ there are hundreds of nice low hr wake boats out there. So my thought is MB should keep there prices in check for the average family. Just sayin'

Dustin, how much of that is that the new MB's are gaining traction and they can make a larger Margin?

Originally Posted by 05mobiuslsv

I gotta say my comments were about the 23 twb only never been in the 21. The 23 is the only boat I'd even consider from MB. It weird how two guys views can be 180, I've spent ALOT of time in VTX's and never noticed what you describe. I do know it's not the case on my 23.

You must love the malibu factory seat height then? Judging from all of the "how to raise your seat height" threads on TMC there are others who think it's too low (IXFE's experience seems to be an outlier). One of my favorite things about the MB vs our vride is the higher seating position. At 5'9" I can drive with the bolster down and be looking through the windshield and also see where I'm going which wasn't possible in the 'bu.

As for the dash height I don't think it's actually that much lower. If memory serves the bottom of my steering rack on the vride was 16" from the floor. On the MB it's 15" (though the bottom of the dash itself is 14").

Seems like to make the dash higher you have to bring the windshield up, or the lower. Higher windshield = higher freeboard = higher folded tower. Lower floor cuts in to ballast.

Yeah I really do like the seat height on my current boat, for me it's perfect maybe not so much for the next guy. The dash on my current boat is 20" to the steering rack, 18" to bottom vinyl on the dash. IXFE is the first person I've ever seen say the seats on a malibu are "too high", like you say they are saying it's to low compared to windshield.

Steering rack as in underneath the dash, more like 24+" to the center of steering wheel.

Originally Posted by dnell

So here is a thought for you. The price of a F21 tomcat in Utah as of February 2011 was around $56k loaded up quite nice. In October 1st 2011 the price for the new 2012 is around $66k. Amazing boats, yes. But at what point does MB say " our price's are getting out of controll, can the average family buy our boat?" is the new MB's with all the changes worth the increasing price? In february if you wanted a NEW wake boat and you did not want to completely break the bank you had 2 options. A MB or the Axis. At $66k I would be out, they hit $70k+ there are hundreds of nice low hr wake boats out there. So my thought is MB should keep there prices in check for the average family. Just sayin'

Totally agree. I love my MB but a lot of that is because of the value. At $10k more there are lots of other options.

Originally Posted by polarbill

Dustin, how much of that is that the new MB's are gaining traction and they can make a larger Margin?

They are gaining traction because all of the changes they are making IMO, I'd have to guess all those changes do add cost. They are quite nice changes...

You should be able to pick up a new well appointed 2012 MB 21WB or 21TC for a price in the mid $50Ks.

Regarding the carpets with the model names... Am I the only one who thinks "tomcat" is a much better name than "B52"?

Originally Posted by dnell

So here is a thought for you. The price of a F21 tomcat in Utah as of February 2011 was around $56k loaded up quite nice. In October 1st 2011 the price for the new 2012 is around $66k. Amazing boats, yes. But at what point does MB say " our price's are getting out of controll, can the average family buy our boat?" is the new MB's with all the changes worth the increasing price? In february if you wanted a NEW wake boat and you did not want to completely break the bank you had 2 options. A MB or the Axis. At $66k I would be out, they hit $70k+ there are hundreds of nice low hr wake boats out there. So my thought is MB should keep there prices in check for the average family. Just sayin'

My local dealer advertises the 2012 Tomcat for $55K including heater (normally an factory option). The only add on to that price is freight and prep. My guess is that you could get them to come down another $2K. Then all you'd have to add is your own tower speakers/amp and you are good to go.

Many things might be happening with that dealer in Utah:

• The are ordering their boats with tons of pricey options: WetSounds tower ($3K), Trim Tab ($1.5K), Metal Flake ($800), Heater ($700), Underwater LED's ($500), Logo carpet, etc.
  
• They have 2011's on the lot so they are pricing the 2012's artificially high.
  
• They are price gouging... trying to take advantage of all the MB buzz, figuring they can get a bigger profit.
  
• Utah in general is a very expensive inboard market. I don't know why. But I travel there often and have been to MB, MC, and Bu dealers and noticed they all expect crazy high prices. They only list MSRP (usually north of $100K), whereas the inboard dealers in Portland list "boat show" pricing year around. You don't have to ask. It's is printed next to the boats on the showroom. Then you negotiate from there. I just think Utah is an expensive inboard market.

Bottom line... I don't think MB's invoice price to the dealers has gone up too much with these changes. Maybe a few G's, but I'm almost positive it's not $10 G's.

Frankly, I don't blame MB for small increases in invoice cost. The driver is not all these new features. It's things like resin, freight, etc. All is more expensive for them today than it was last year. I'm sure every boat company is in the same boat.

There are two pretty loaded up F21s at my local dealer and both of them are priced at $59,999. They don't have tower speakers or a heater but they do have the trim plate and the flake gel coat. They have a 23 TWB B52 for $69,999 with the flake gel coat, trim plate and upgraded engine. For me it would be a no brainer to spend the extra 10k and get the bigger boat and the upgraded engine. I spent about 30-40 minutes crawling around in the 23 and was very impressed.

A few years back i convinced one of my exs dads to purchase a 23 foot B 52, and that boat was super solid! it could tank through triple up rollers no problem! also the wake was very large just stock and got on plane with ease, i love boats with a ton of factory ballast!

unfortunately the girls family were quite the party people and ended up not taking care of it. the boat ended up trashed then sold :'(

i miss that boat

I have been reading this thread for the last few days and since I am trying to pick between 23 MB WB and 23 Malibu this has been very informative. IS the Ski wake on the MB that Bad. I like to Ski some and Wakboard and I want to learn to surf. My kids Board and I am sure they will learn to surf as soon as I buy a new boat. I am 47 and Kids are 11 and 14 and my wife just likes to ride in the boat and not get beat up. Here is my questions?
1. How do both boats handle in chop I have been told Malibu does not handle rough water as well as M. We boat at Shaver Lake and Pine Flat in Central California.
2. All Around Boat? IS the Malibu worth the extra 15+k?
3. Ski Wake and Board and Surf Wake. I dont want to buy more bags I want to make what is in the boat work for me. Is the Malibu system better or worse thant he MB simple fill sytem?
4. The fit and Finish is great on Malibu and MB is the best I have seen next to Malibu. How do they look in 5 years after use?
5. Does MB weigh so much more than the Malibu and is the fuel milage as poor as the Malibui Dealers claim?


Just a few questions for the board. If anyone owns a MB or Malibu on this board inCentral California would love to talk to you. Tal 559-285-2638

You could get a LSV 23' with a diamond hull and that WILL ski better than an MB.

The surf wave on the Malibu can be great, but it takes weight. It's not very good without extra weight. The MB is very surfable with factory ballast only (four adults, no sacks):



Sortof an apples and oranges comparo on the intangibles. Is a Lexus worth more than a Toyota? There is a LOT more content to the Malibus than MB. And that content costs (maliview, power wedge, etc). Gotta decide if it's worth it to you.

The MB 23' is good in chop. AFAIK, so is the 'bu. Good as far as inboards go. Neither is a Cobalt.

I've demo'd the 23 MB and the 23 LSV Malibu both in the past few weeks.

The MB cuts through choppy waters significantly better than the Malibu

The MB surf wave, at least how we had it weighted, was significantly better than the Malibu. On both we added 750 of external ballast to the rear locker and 400 on the surfside seat in addition to filling the rear locker, mid & front. On the MB, we added the same weight in addition to the stock ballast. the MB surf wave was significantly better than the malibu in this configuration. The Malibu ski wake was better to our eyes, although we didn't have a chance to ski either boat. The 23 MB surf wave looks pretty scary. The wakeboard wave on both looked good, but we didn't have a chance to board it so I can't really say.

Malibu fit & finish is superior. Malibu captains chair and helm area are more ergonomically pleasing to me. Is this worth a 10-15k price gap? That's too personal for me to decide for you.

Personally, I don't like digital gauges, so personal preference edge to the MB.