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Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-24-2017, 2:43 PM Reply   
http://abc7news.com/politics/full-li...llies/2335406/

So the news is Hyping a series of up coming counter protest's & rally's here in the Bay Aera this weekend. I'm so glad I will be at the Lake enjoying a beer while taking in the outdoors not paying attention to MSM. In sharp contrast to these people you can bet that their is going to be violence and some sort of conflict, & the News will be on hand to capture it all im sure.


QUESTION
What kind of people want to attend this type of event. IMO it's people both Left and Right with no life, bored and looking to let off some steam and or take out anger one each other. I mean on one hand i can understand a Rally. Going to a event to hang out with like minded people. But to go to a event with the soul idea to disrupt and or have conflict with the other side seems so stupid,

EXAMPLE. I hate country music. I cant stand it, But I don't go to a country music concert to complain and yell at others that went to attend, You don't like country music? fine stay home don't go. I just find it crazy that counter protesters (either side) are allowed to attend with the soul focus is to disrupt and cause drama speaking of Drama stay tuned Milo will be speaking a Berkley in a few weeks
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       08-24-2017, 3:04 PM Reply   
Could t agree more. The only reason counter protestors show up is to create mayhem . Much like they did in Charlottesville .


You don't like the message ,go get a permit and hold you own event the following weekend . Problem solved. The intolerance from the left is tiresome. The " if you don't agree with us , we will **** it down " mantra has got to stop. But the media and the social justice talking heads keep glorifying it .
Old     (deneng)      Join Date: Feb 2005       08-25-2017, 6:38 AM Reply   
I do not know if I will attend this rally. I am asking myself why would i attend? Who will be there and what will the message be? I attended both of the Stickman base rally's and loved it because there was such a semi large group that represented all ethnic groups supporting our new President. I think parking alone would be a nightmare and if i take Bart ? Love the fact that a permit was issued and that it may be a safer Free Speech Rally, but it is in SF so who knows? The previous 8 years with Obama were so frustrating because there was no hope and I could see America crumbling as the Communist/Socialist were about to finish off our society. There is now hope that America can once again be America.
Could not agree more that the left should get there own permit and rally. MAGA!

Last edited by deneng; 08-25-2017 at 6:44 AM.
Old     (deneng)      Join Date: Feb 2005       08-25-2017, 6:52 AM Reply   
Ben Shapiro will be at Berkeley September 14.
http://sfist.com/2017/07/21/ben_shap...rkeley_wit.php
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-25-2017, 8:36 AM Reply   
Deneng: I can see the lefts tactic of making attending the event un comfortable for people like you or me stay home is their way of winning setting fire to things and causing mayhem and getting the event shut down like they did in Berkeley is another way they win. Hopefully they will figure out a compromise. Example you want to protest speech you dream hate ! Fine keep the 2 different rally's separate. Don't let the 2 different rally's be any where each other.

Example the Berkeley milo event was indoors. Counter protesters should not be allowed into the event to disrupt and cause mayhem. They should not be allowed to gather and taunt as people are going into the entrance. This is just my opinion but Berkeley never wanted milo or any conservative views and they let people destroy. Hopefully they have Learned a few lessons from the last go around, and they can have a event without all the destruction and chaos
Old     (deneng)      Join Date: Feb 2005       08-25-2017, 12:23 PM Reply   
Agreed . This rally looks like it will be a prayer/free speech rally. Will Antifa attack a bunch of peaceful non racist folk?
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-25-2017, 4:02 PM Reply   
I read some stuff this morning on what or how would be the best/better way to protest or more correct, counter protest. If Antifa is fighting the KKK, neo-Nazi... coverage fuels them direct and indirect thru media. Its a chance for ...say an liberal hating news organization to make liberals look guilty/foolish because they came to fight. Not very tolerant of you libbies. The goal of liberal hating news is to make liberals look bad... forget the fact they are fighting Neo Nazis and KKK. Now liberal hating news organization is fueling KKK/Nazi because the left hate is the immediate goal. The liberals look bad, and Nazis are getting more pub, the liberal hating news organization is now distrusted more and more hate by liberals. The only winner is KKK/Nazis. Efficiency fail.
Politics is dividing America. "F" politicians.
So the idea,
The KKK has a big rally/protest planned. Instead of Antifa showing up and fighting a better approach would to make fun of them. Dress up in white robes with big red clown noses and clown make-up. If Neo-Nazi are at a rally, don't fight show up in neon colored Nazi uniforms and march in exaggerated goose step and salute Hiel! No violence, Nazis look foolish less ammo for liberal hating media and there is a uniting of left and 99% of the right who are anti Nazi/KKK. Probably better than not showing up to make their rally silent or to fight. Any other alternative ideas?
also dislike Country music, and I just avoid it too. If we have been listening to it for more than a couple hours on the river, I will ever so politely request a change.
Old    deltahoosier            08-25-2017, 4:57 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
I read some stuff this morning on what or how would be the best/better way to protest or more correct, counter protest. If Antifa is fighting the KKK, neo-Nazi... coverage fuels them direct and indirect thru media. Its a chance for ...say an liberal hating news organization to make liberals look guilty/foolish because they came to fight. Not very tolerant of you libbies. The goal of liberal hating news is to make liberals look bad... forget the fact they are fighting Neo Nazis and KKK. Now liberal hating news organization is fueling KKK/Nazi because the left hate is the immediate goal. The liberals look bad, and Nazis are getting more pub, the liberal hating news organization is now distrusted more and more hate by liberals. The only winner is KKK/Nazis. Efficiency fail.
Politics is dividing America. "F" politicians.
So the idea,
The KKK has a big rally/protest planned. Instead of Antifa showing up and fighting a better approach would to make fun of them. Dress up in white robes with big red clown noses and clown make-up. If Neo-Nazi are at a rally, don't fight show up in neon colored Nazi uniforms and march in exaggerated goose step and salute Hiel! No violence, Nazis look foolish less ammo for liberal hating media and there is a uniting of left and 99% of the right who are anti Nazi/KKK. Probably better than not showing up to make their rally silent or to fight. Any other alternative ideas?
also dislike Country music, and I just avoid it too. If we have been listening to it for more than a couple hours on the river, I will ever so politely request a change.
Still need to get rid off that Rose Bowl too.

It would be interesting but it was a funny meme. There were just a few hundred nazi/ kkk types that showed up for a "huge" rally in Virginia. Supposedly there were 7,000 that showed up for a Brony Show (where dude dress up as my little pony). Do we really have a nazi/kkk problem?
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-28-2017, 2:06 PM Reply   
If you want to rid us of the rose bowl, start a petition, i'll even sign it for you. I reserve the right to watch THE GAME tho.
I don't think the numbers of KKK/Nazi is anywhere near the numbers decades ago at the same time I don't wish for them to gain steam or presidential support. We have a problem that will get bigger if allowed to.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-29-2017, 9:36 AM Reply   
Looks like the Patriot Prayer group, was way outnumbered and forced to move from even sight to event sight in order to avoid counter protesters and the Paitriot Prayer event fell apart. O well as long as the city didn't burn and people were not beating each other all is well. The City held many Peace rally's at the same time to encourage people to avoid the Patriot Prayer event. What ever works!
Old    deltahoosier            08-29-2017, 9:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
If you want to rid us of the rose bowl, start a petition, i'll even sign it for you. I reserve the right to watch THE GAME tho.
I don't think the numbers of KKK/Nazi is anywhere near the numbers decades ago at the same time I don't wish for them to gain steam or presidential support. We have a problem that will get bigger if allowed to.
Haha. down with the Rose Bowl. !!!!! I will start a rumor that there is a conservative going to speak there and the democrats will burn it down in 10 minutes. Pac 12 playing in Michigan in winter would be priceless.

As far as kkk and nazi's? I don't think either is getting any steam. What the left is considering nazi/ kkk speak is people saying to uphold the law of the land on immigration and yes, watch out for radical islam.

Antifa chants at Berkeley: “No Trump, no wall, no USA at all”

http://hotair.com/archives/2017/08/2...o-wall-no-usa/
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-29-2017, 2:34 PM Reply   
Quote:
Haha. down with the Rose Bowl. !!!!! I will start a rumor that there is a conservative going to speak there and the democrats will burn it down in 10 minutes. Pac 12 playing in Michigan in winter would be priceless.
pac12 is more than just so cal teams, snows in Washington, Utah, Colorado and Oregon right.. SC plays every other year in South Bend, is it colder in Michigan? All the fans of any team who play in the rosebowl and comes from anywhere cold in the country will hate you if they cant come out to Pasadena.

I cant fully support any antifa, I'm just not a big violence fan. Eventually the left will distance itself (my guess) from them. Smarter people than me will come up with better ideas to combat KKK/Nazis.
Old    deltahoosier            08-29-2017, 3:51 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
pac12 is more than just so cal teams, snows in Washington, Utah, Colorado and Oregon right.. SC plays every other year in South Bend, is it colder in Michigan? All the fans of any team who play in the rosebowl and comes from anywhere cold in the country will hate you if they cant come out to Pasadena.

I cant fully support any antifa, I'm just not a big violence fan. Eventually the left will distance itself (my guess) from them. Smarter people than me will come up with better ideas to combat KKK/Nazis.
Michigan is a little colder. Not much. People would be salty as heck if they had to go to Michigan in January. However, historically most midwest teams were built to fight it out in cold windy weather which dampens success playing different styles of ball against high flying warm weather teams.

I can not support Anifa at all. zero percent. I rate them with kkk and nazi's. Matter of fact, I rate them worse as they are the only ones I have seen doing violence and destruction in my lifetime. I don't think the left will distance themselves. As you can see by talking to people on this board, they believe in some of the stuff antifa is saying (even though antifa they are marxists). This whole antifa thing is a marxist cover. It is a continuation of occupy wallstreet and all the other movements of late. Same idea, same people but with violence this time. Only difference is they are changing the label of peoples speech so they can attack it and then saying they are for the greater good. Just like the book 1984.

We don't have a nazi or kkk problem. The democrats have changed their backing to antifa now so the kkk is without it's funding. Put it this way:

While there were only accounts of hundreds on the pro confederate side of the rally ( I doubt that many actual kkk or nazi's), there were 7600 people at the 2016 Brony con. Think about that. Do we really have a problem? How many have burned, looted, and terrorized cities in the last few years. Can we mobilize a army of citizens to go into those towns and beat them down?

https://community.bronycon.org/t/bro...ance-2016/4739
Old    TheWakeIsReal            08-29-2017, 3:57 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
Michigan is a little colder. Not much. People would be salty as heck if they had to go to Michigan in January. However, historically most midwest teams were built to fight it out in cold windy weather which dampens success playing different styles of ball against high flying warm weather teams.

I can not support Anifa at all. zero percent. I rate them with kkk and nazi's. Matter of fact, I rate them worse as they are the only ones I have seen doing violence and destruction in my lifetime. I don't think the left will distance themselves. As you can see by talking to people on this board, they believe in some of the stuff antifa is saying (even though antifa they are marxists). This whole antifa thing is a marxist cover. It is a continuation of occupy wallstreet and all the other movements of late. Same idea, same people but with violence this time. Only difference is they are changing the label of peoples speech so they can attack it and then saying they are for the greater good. Just like the book 1984.

We don't have a nazi or kkk problem. The democrats have changed their backing to antifa now so the kkk is without it's funding. Put it this way:

While there were only accounts of hundreds on the pro confederate side of the rally ( I doubt that many actual kkk or nazi's), there were 7600 people at the 2016 Brony con. Think about that. Do we really have a problem? How many have burned, looted, and terrorized cities in the last few years. Can we mobilize a army of citizens to go into those towns and beat them down?

https://community.bronycon.org/t/bro...ance-2016/4739
I agree, **** ANTIFA. But you are seriously misguided in history if you think some protestors who haven't even killed anybody are worse than Nazis.
Old    deltahoosier            08-29-2017, 4:14 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
Looks like the Patriot Prayer group, was way outnumbered and forced to move from even sight to event sight in order to avoid counter protesters and the Paitriot Prayer event fell apart. O well as long as the city didn't burn and people were not beating each other all is well. The City held many Peace rally's at the same time to encourage people to avoid the Patriot Prayer event. What ever works!
the leftists still found them and beat them up anyway:

Antifa chants at Berkeley: “No Trump, no wall, no USA at all”
http://hotair.com/archives/2017/08/2...o-wall-no-usa/
Old    deltahoosier            08-29-2017, 4:32 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWakeIsReal View Post
I agree, **** ANTIFA. But you are seriously misguided in history if you think some protestors who haven't even killed anybody are worse than Nazis.
Now you are trying to get caught up in labels. yes. I think these protestors are worse than nazi's and kkk. Yes. 100%.

What is a nazi? Nazi's are socialists who want the government to have people conform to their version of identity politics. Marxists? BLM and antifa. Both are marxists groups. They want the government to make people conform to their version of identity politics.

Do any American nazi's have anything to do with hitler? No they don't. Marxists have killed way more than hilter ever could dream in history. However, none of these marxists in America have killed anyone like stalin. History: communists well over 100,000 million people killed. nazi's 30,000 million people killed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_k...munist_regimes

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/mosl...mes-world.html

I say murderous pasts are deplorable for any of these groups. I think their views on people and government are deplorable. So where does that leave us. We have two idiotic socialist/ communist groups who want the government to bend to their version of the truth. Only difference I see is A) all Americans pretty much hate the nazi's. The left and the right hate them. B) the left does not hate marxists, but the right does. C) Only groups I see out in masks out terrorizing and beating up people are the leftists. I have seen at least two dozen episodes with 30 minutes from where I live with people doing things from closing down highways, destroying buildings, fighting with police, beating up trump supporters and so on. That is just in my area alone. I have seen just as much around the country. Baltimore. Ferguson. Washington D.C. and many more. Where have a I seen kkk and nazi's out disrupting the public and beating up people? Then we have BLM setring up cops to be shot in Dallas. They moved off the agreed route to move the police into a sniper trap from events that I read. They also shot at cops in follow up protests in Fergeson.

So, yes. the leftists are way worse in history and in modern day America.
Old     (tweeder)      Join Date: Aug 2015       08-29-2017, 4:46 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWakeIsReal View Post
I agree, **** ANTIFA. But you are seriously misguided in history if you think some protestors who haven't even killed anybody are worse than Nazis.
I've tried to stay out of the **** show that is this topic but lets stop dignifying these morons as Nazis. They are not even close to being capable of committing the atrocities that Nazis did in WW2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBuQLeVHt90
Old    TheWakeIsReal            08-29-2017, 5:09 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
Now you are trying to get caught up in labels. yes. I think these protestors are worse than nazi's and kkk. Yes. 100%.

What is a nazi? Nazi's are socialists who want the government to have people conform to their version of identity politics. Marxists? BLM and antifa. Both are marxists groups. They want the government to make people conform to their version of identity politics.

Do any American nazi's have anything to do with hitler? No they don't. Marxists have killed way more than hilter ever could dream in history. However, none of these marxists in America have killed anyone like stalin. History: communists well over 100,000 million people killed. nazi's 30,000 million people killed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_k...munist_regimes

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/mosl...mes-world.html

I say murderous pasts are deplorable for any of these groups. I think their views on people and government are deplorable. So where does that leave us. We have two idiotic socialist/ communist groups who want the government to bend to their version of the truth. Only difference I see is A) all Americans pretty much hate the nazi's. The left and the right hate them. B) the left does not hate marxists, but the right does. C) Only groups I see out in masks out terrorizing and beating up people are the leftists. I have seen at least two dozen episodes with 30 minutes from where I live with people doing things from closing down highways, destroying buildings, fighting with police, beating up trump supporters and so on. That is just in my area alone. I have seen just as much around the country. Baltimore. Ferguson. Washington D.C. and many more. Where have a I seen kkk and nazi's out disrupting the public and beating up people? Then we have BLM setring up cops to be shot in Dallas. They moved off the agreed route to move the police into a sniper trap from events that I read. They also shot at cops in follow up protests in Fergeson.

So, yes. the leftists are way worse in history and in modern day America.

Just to be clear, you're comparing the American left to Stalin? Just because you say words like Marxism doesn't mean you have any ****ing clue what it is. You really think the Nazis walking around America are socialists? Ha

Last edited by TheWakeIsReal; 08-29-2017 at 5:15 PM.
Old    deltahoosier            08-29-2017, 6:08 PM Reply   
nazi's walking around anywhere are socialists. Even the ones in Germany in 1930's. IT IS IN THE NAME!!!


a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.

Nazism:

National Socialism (German: Nationalsozialismus), more commonly known as Nazism (/ˈnɑːtsɪzəm, ˈnæ-/[1])

Yes. The American Nazi's are like the German ones. They do not value our constitution and want government control in such a way as to allow their version of crap they want.

As far as the American left and Stalin? They are getting there. We already have people on this board saying that people do not have the freedom of speech if the speech is not the right kind of speech. Who does that sound like? We have thousands in this country running around in hoods beating up people and burning buildings chanting "no more America", carrying Soviet flags. Who does that sound like?

This flag look familiar:



Antifaschistische Aktion (ANTIFA) was founded to ensure that the Communists still had a militant wing to rival the paramilitary organizations of the Nazis.

This flag is carried by the ANTIFA here in America. It is also the same communist flag from 1930's Germany.

I know what marxists are and the American left is starting to get in lock step. Communism is the end game. The final step of Marxism. Where there is no class system and no country states. Sound familiar with wanting illegals and open boarders? Socialism is the next step after the people over through the ruling class. What is ANTIFA About? Over throwing the ruling class. Same with occupy wall street. The leaders of the DNC consider themselves to be progressives. This is just a slightly less abrupt means to socialism. They just want to play class envy to get the working class to vote for a controlled means of production.

What you have right now, is your militant wing becoming unhinged because the marxists in colleges are out pacing your progressives. The radicals are starting to take over the ship on the left.
Old     (magicr)      Join Date: May 2004       08-29-2017, 8:01 PM Reply   
So then North Korea is really not a Totalitarian Dictatorship? Now I'm confused.


Democratic People's Republic of Korea
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       08-29-2017, 9:01 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicr View Post
So then North Korea is really not a Totalitarian Dictatorship? Now I'm confused.


Democratic People's Republic of Korea
XD
Old    TheWakeIsReal            08-29-2017, 10:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicr View Post
So then North Korea is really not a Totalitarian Dictatorship? Now I'm confused.


Democratic People's Republic of Korea
This times a million. People get so caught up in what things are named that they don't even look at the ideologies behind them.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-30-2017, 2:57 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWakeIsReal View Post
This times a million. People get so caught up in what things are named that they don't even look at the ideologies behind them.
Yep, simply looking at the name would mean the US and China have the same sort of govt. The official name is the People's Republic of China.
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       08-30-2017, 7:10 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
nazi's walking around anywhere are socialists. Even the ones in Germany in 1930's. IT IS IN THE NAME!!!


a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.

Nazism:

National Socialism (German: Nationalsozialismus), more commonly known as Nazism (/ˈnɑːtsɪzəm, ˈnæ-/[1])






I know what marxists are and the American left is starting to get in lock step. Communism is the end game. The final step of Marxism. Where there is no class system and no country states. Sound familiar with wanting illegals and open boarders? Socialism is the next step after the people over through the ruling class. What is ANTIFA About? Over throwing the ruling class. Same with occupy wall street. The leaders of the DNC consider themselves to be progressives. This is just a slightly less abrupt means to socialism. They just want to play class envy to get the working class to vote for a controlled means of production.

t.
There is still classes in communism, except instead of the 1% you have the .001%. Look at current communist countries. The haves have their own cities the poor aren't supposed to know about. The American communists don't give two craps about the people & their end game isn't to promote equality it is for the rulers to have a firm grip on power that they don't risk losing every 4 to 8 years
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-30-2017, 9:04 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
the leftists still found them and beat them up anyway:

Antifa chants at Berkeley: “No Trump, no wall, no USA at all”
http://hotair.com/archives/2017/08/2...o-wall-no-usa/
And Pelosi has condemned the actions of Antifa.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...-condemnation/
Old    deltahoosier            08-30-2017, 9:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWakeIsReal View Post
This times a million. People get so caught up in what things are named that they don't even look at the ideologies behind them.
Yep and nazi's are well documented as to what they were in Germany. They controlled means of production. So the name fits.
Old    TheWakeIsReal            08-30-2017, 9:33 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
Yep and nazi's are well documented as to what they were in Germany. They controlled means of production. So the name fits.
North Korea had an election. Democracy.
Old    deltahoosier            08-30-2017, 10:18 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWakeIsReal View Post
North Korea had an election. Democracy.
Tell me where he does not say socialism and talk of socialist ideas.


Quotes from Hitler Speeches:

Socialism as the final concept of duty, the ethical duty of work, not just for oneself but also for one’s fellow man’s sake, and above all the principle: Common good before own good, a struggle against all parasitism and especially against easy and unearned income. And we were aware that in this fight we can rely on no one but our own people. We are convinced that socialism in the right sense will only be possible in nations and races that are Aryan, and there in the first place we hope for our own people and are convinced that socialism is inseparable from nationalism.
"Why We Are Anti-Semites," August 15, 1920 speech in Munich at the Hofbräuhaus. Speech also known as "Why Are We Anti-Semites?" Translated from Vierteljahrshefte für Zeitgeschichte, 16. Jahrg., 4. H. (Oct., 1968), pp. 390-420. Edited by Carolyn Yeager. [1]

The common good before the individual good. (Gemeinnutz geht vor Eigennutz)
“The Nazi 25-point Programme,” Hitler’s speech on party's program (February 24, 1920) in Munich, Germany. Nazi Ideology Before 1933: A Documentation, Barbara Miller Lane, ‎Leila J. Rupp, introduction and translation, Manchester University Press (1978) p. 43.

Since we are socialists, we must necessarily also be antisemites because we want to fight against the very opposite: materialism and mammonism… How can you not be an antisemite, being a socialist!
"Why We Are Anti-Semites," August 15, 1920 speech in Munich at the Hofbräuhaus. Translated from Vierteljahrshefte für Zeitgeschichte, 16. Jahrg., 4. H. (Oct., 1968), pp. 390-420. Edited by Carolyn Yeager. [2]

Because it seems inseparable from the social idea and we do not believe that there could ever exist a state with lasting inner health if it is not built on internal social justice, and so we have joined forces with this knowledge.
"Why We Are Anti-Semites," August 15, 1920 speech in Munich at the Hofbräuhaus. Translated from Vierteljahrshefte für Zeitgeschichte, 16. Jahrg., 4. H. (Oct., 1968), pp. 390-420. Edited by Carolyn Yeager. [3]

There are no such things as classes: they cannot be. Class means caste and caste means race.

April 12, 1922 Hitler Speech, Munich [4]

What matters is to emphasize the fundamental idea in my party's economic program clearly; the idea of authority. I want the authority; I want everyone to keep the property he has acquired for himself according to the principle: *'*Benefit to the community precedes benefit to the individual.*'* But the state should retain supervision and each property owner should consider himself appointed by the state. It is his duty not to use his property against the interests of others among his own people. This is the crucial matter. The Third Reich will always retain its right to control the owners of property.

In 1931, as quoted in Nazi Economics: Ideology, Theory, and Policy (1990), by Avraham Barkai, pp. 26–27

Whenever I stand up for the German peasant, it is for the sake of the Volk. I have neither ancestral estate nor manor… I believe I am the only statesman in the world who does not have a bank account. I hold no stock, I have no shares in any companies. I do not draw any dividends.

As quoted in The Third Reich: A New History, Michael Burleigh, Hill and Wang, 2001, p. 246. Speech to the Krupp Locomotive factory workers in Essen, March 27, 1936.



There is a difference between the theoretical knowledge of socialism and the practical life of socialism. People are not born socialists, but must first be taught how to become them.
As quoted in The Third Reich: A New History by Michael Burleigh [6]

The main plank in the National Socialist program is to abolish the liberalistic concept of the individual and the Marxist concept of humanity and to substitute therefore the folk community, rooted in the soil and bound together by the bond of its common blood.
On National Socialism and World Relations, speech delivered by Hitler in the German Reichstag, (January 30, 1937). German translation published by H. Müller & Sohn in Berlin.

Is there a nobler or more excellent kind of Socialism and is there a truer form of Democracy than this National Socialism which is so organized that through it each one among the millions of German boys is given the possibility of finding his way to the highest office in the nation, should it please Providence to come to his aid.
On National Socialism and World Relations, delivered in the German Reichstag, January 30, 1937. German translation published by H. Müller & Sohn in Berlin.

And numerous people whose families belong to the peasantry and working classes are now filling prominent positions in this National Socialist State. Some of them actually hold the highest offices in the leadership of the nation, as Cabinet Ministers, Reichsstatthalter and Gauleiter. But National Socialism always bears in mind the interests of the people as a whole and not the interests of one class or another. The National Socialist Revolution has not aimed at turning a privileged class into a class which will have no rights in the future. Its aim has been to grant equal rights to those social strata that hitherto were denied such rights.
Speech by Adolf Hitler, On National Socialism and World Relations, delivered in the German Reichstag, January 30, 1937. German translation published by H. Müller & Sohn in Berlin.
Old    TheWakeIsReal            08-30-2017, 10:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
Tell me where he does not say socialism and talk of socialist ideas.


Quotes from Hitler Speeches:

Socialism as the final concept of duty, the ethical duty of work, not just for oneself but also for one’s fellow man’s sake, and above all the principle: Common good before own good, a struggle against all parasitism and especially against easy and unearned income. And we were aware that in this fight we can rely on no one but our own people. We are convinced that socialism in the right sense will only be possible in nations and races that are Aryan, and there in the first place we hope for our own people and are convinced that socialism is inseparable from nationalism.
"Why We Are Anti-Semites," August 15, 1920 speech in Munich at the Hofbräuhaus. Speech also known as "Why Are We Anti-Semites?" Translated from Vierteljahrshefte für Zeitgeschichte, 16. Jahrg., 4. H. (Oct., 1968), pp. 390-420. Edited by Carolyn Yeager. [1]

The common good before the individual good. (Gemeinnutz geht vor Eigennutz)
“The Nazi 25-point Programme,” Hitler’s speech on party's program (February 24, 1920) in Munich, Germany. Nazi Ideology Before 1933: A Documentation, Barbara Miller Lane, ‎Leila J. Rupp, introduction and translation, Manchester University Press (1978) p. 43.

Since we are socialists, we must necessarily also be antisemites because we want to fight against the very opposite: materialism and mammonism… How can you not be an antisemite, being a socialist!
"Why We Are Anti-Semites," August 15, 1920 speech in Munich at the Hofbräuhaus. Translated from Vierteljahrshefte für Zeitgeschichte, 16. Jahrg., 4. H. (Oct., 1968), pp. 390-420. Edited by Carolyn Yeager. [2]

Because it seems inseparable from the social idea and we do not believe that there could ever exist a state with lasting inner health if it is not built on internal social justice, and so we have joined forces with this knowledge.
"Why We Are Anti-Semites," August 15, 1920 speech in Munich at the Hofbräuhaus. Translated from Vierteljahrshefte für Zeitgeschichte, 16. Jahrg., 4. H. (Oct., 1968), pp. 390-420. Edited by Carolyn Yeager. [3]

There are no such things as classes: they cannot be. Class means caste and caste means race.

April 12, 1922 Hitler Speech, Munich [4]

What matters is to emphasize the fundamental idea in my party's economic program clearly; the idea of authority. I want the authority; I want everyone to keep the property he has acquired for himself according to the principle: *'*Benefit to the community precedes benefit to the individual.*'* But the state should retain supervision and each property owner should consider himself appointed by the state. It is his duty not to use his property against the interests of others among his own people. This is the crucial matter. The Third Reich will always retain its right to control the owners of property.

In 1931, as quoted in Nazi Economics: Ideology, Theory, and Policy (1990), by Avraham Barkai, pp. 26–27

Whenever I stand up for the German peasant, it is for the sake of the Volk. I have neither ancestral estate nor manor… I believe I am the only statesman in the world who does not have a bank account. I hold no stock, I have no shares in any companies. I do not draw any dividends.

As quoted in The Third Reich: A New History, Michael Burleigh, Hill and Wang, 2001, p. 246. Speech to the Krupp Locomotive factory workers in Essen, March 27, 1936.



There is a difference between the theoretical knowledge of socialism and the practical life of socialism. People are not born socialists, but must first be taught how to become them.
As quoted in The Third Reich: A New History by Michael Burleigh [6]

The main plank in the National Socialist program is to abolish the liberalistic concept of the individual and the Marxist concept of humanity and to substitute therefore the folk community, rooted in the soil and bound together by the bond of its common blood.
On National Socialism and World Relations, speech delivered by Hitler in the German Reichstag, (January 30, 1937). German translation published by H. Müller & Sohn in Berlin.

Is there a nobler or more excellent kind of Socialism and is there a truer form of Democracy than this National Socialism which is so organized that through it each one among the millions of German boys is given the possibility of finding his way to the highest office in the nation, should it please Providence to come to his aid.
On National Socialism and World Relations, delivered in the German Reichstag, January 30, 1937. German translation published by H. Müller & Sohn in Berlin.

And numerous people whose families belong to the peasantry and working classes are now filling prominent positions in this National Socialist State. Some of them actually hold the highest offices in the leadership of the nation, as Cabinet Ministers, Reichsstatthalter and Gauleiter. But National Socialism always bears in mind the interests of the people as a whole and not the interests of one class or another. The National Socialist Revolution has not aimed at turning a privileged class into a class which will have no rights in the future. Its aim has been to grant equal rights to those social strata that hitherto were denied such rights.
Speech by Adolf Hitler, On National Socialism and World Relations, delivered in the German Reichstag, January 30, 1937. German translation published by H. Müller & Sohn in Berlin.
I gave you the benefit of the doubt of being brighter than to take words at face value as truth. Leaders lie all the time, especially Hitler. So far in this post you have grouped people into far reaching expanses of Marxism, Communism, and Socialism. Those are the most broad terms and really have no meaning unless you have a specific as a certain type of Marxism can be so far off another type of Marxism that it is laughable you use them that way.

Again, Kim uses words to describe his government as a democracy, is it a democracy? Was Russia a true communist state? No. Was Germany a socialist state in Nazi times? No. Is America a TRUE capitalist country? No.
Old    deltahoosier            08-30-2017, 11:36 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWakeIsReal View Post
I gave you the benefit of the doubt of being brighter than to take words at face value as truth. Leaders lie all the time, especially Hitler. So far in this post you have grouped people into far reaching expanses of Marxism, Communism, and Socialism. Those are the most broad terms and really have no meaning unless you have a specific as a certain type of Marxism can be so far off another type of Marxism that it is laughable you use them that way.

Again, Kim uses words to describe his government as a democracy, is it a democracy? Was Russia a true communist state? No. Was Germany a socialist state in Nazi times? No. Is America a TRUE capitalist country? No.
Marxism is a path. The leftist in the Progressive movements want to put us into the socialist portion of the programming. The ANTIFA/ George Soros types want our boarders removed as does the UN dream. That vision is very consistent with the Communist websites vision statements and so on.

On Hitlers words. How can you not take his word for him being a socialist. Those quotes were his body of work since the early 1920's through the 1940's. That is 20 years of being consistent on what he was about. I brought his mindset and his quotes to this discussion. You bring the proof that the Nazi party was not? Bernie Sanders is a socialist. He in our form of government may not be able to mandate a instant switch to socialism, however that does not mean he is not a socialist.
Old    deltahoosier            08-30-2017, 11:46 AM Reply   
This is parts of the official 25 points of the Nazi Party. There were the official points of the party as ratified in 1920.

Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of debt (interest)-slavery.
In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people, personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore, we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

We demand the nationalisation of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).

We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.

We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.

We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality.

We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land.

We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers, profiteers and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of confession or race.

We demand substitution of a German common law in place of the Roman Law serving a materialistic world-order.

The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school [Staatsbürgerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.

The State is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young.
We demand abolition of the mercenary troops and formation of a national army.

We demand legal opposition to known lies and their promulgation through the press. In order to enable the provision of a German press, we demand, that:

a. All writers and employees of the newspapers appearing in the German language be members of the race;
b. Non-German newspapers be required to have the express permission of the State to be published. They may not be printed in the German language;
c. Non-Germans are forbidden by law any financial interest in German publications, or any influence on them, and as punishment for violations the closing of such a publication as well as the immediate expulsion from the Reich of the non-German concerned. Publications which are counter to the general good are to be forbidden. We demand legal prosecution of artistic and literary forms which exert a destructive influence on our national life, and the closure of organizations opposing the above made demands.

We demand freedom of religion for all religious denominations within the state so long as they do not endanger its existence or oppose the moral senses of the Germanic race. The Party as such advocates the standpoint of a positive Christianity without binding itself confessionally to any one denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit within and around us, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our nation can only succeed from within on the framework: The common good before the individual good. (Gemeinnutz geht vor Eigennutz).[10] Has also been translated as "The good of the state before the good of the individual."[11]
For the execution of all of this we demand the formation of a strong central power in the Reich. Unlimited authority of the central parliament over the whole Reich and its organizations in general. The forming of state and profession chambers for the execution of the laws made by the Reich within the various states of the confederation. The leaders of the Party promise, if necessary by sacrificing their own lives, to support by the execution of the points set forth above without consideration.
Old    deltahoosier            08-30-2017, 11:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWakeIsReal View Post
I gave you the benefit of the doubt of being brighter than to take words at face value as truth. Leaders lie all the time, especially Hitler. So far in this post you have grouped people into far reaching expanses of Marxism, Communism, and Socialism. Those are the most broad terms and really have no meaning unless you have a specific as a certain type of Marxism can be so far off another type of Marxism that it is laughable you use them that way.

Again, Kim uses words to describe his government as a democracy, is it a democracy? Was Russia a true communist state? No. Was Germany a socialist state in Nazi times? No. Is America a TRUE capitalist country? No.
Regardless if these other countries are True this and that, the march to communism and Socialism historically collapses when you run out of other peoples money, when the workers notice there is still a ruling glass when they wre promised everyone is equal and historically has come through violence as most sane people do not want to vote their rights away.

Right now, we have leftist out beating people up? Why? Their ideas are losing at the ballot box so it is on to the violence. The progressives would like everyone to vote it away quietly, however the children are unhinged as the brain washing is working.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-30-2017, 12:14 PM Reply   
Quote:
And Pelosi has condemned the actions of Antifa.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...-condemnation/
O Paleezzzze! The Libra Tards have been showing up and VIOLENTLY attacking conservatives that have a different opinion for MONTHS. This old hag Pelosi finally says's after months of saying NOTHING they condemn it!!!. No one care's or believes you. These ANTIFA people have no lives, And protesting is a Hobby to them, Artists Students, Burn Outs, and do you love how the media rushes into cover it 24/7 Reminds me of Black Friday coverage
Old    TheWakeIsReal            08-30-2017, 12:30 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
This is parts of the official 25 points of the Nazi Party. There were the official points of the party as ratified in 1920.

Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of debt (interest)-slavery.
In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people, personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore, we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

We demand the nationalisation of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).

We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.

We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.

We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality.

We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land.

We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers, profiteers and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of confession or race.

We demand substitution of a German common law in place of the Roman Law serving a materialistic world-order.

The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school [Staatsbürgerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.

The State is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young.
We demand abolition of the mercenary troops and formation of a national army.

We demand legal opposition to known lies and their promulgation through the press. In order to enable the provision of a German press, we demand, that:

a. All writers and employees of the newspapers appearing in the German language be members of the race;
b. Non-German newspapers be required to have the express permission of the State to be published. They may not be printed in the German language;
c. Non-Germans are forbidden by law any financial interest in German publications, or any influence on them, and as punishment for violations the closing of such a publication as well as the immediate expulsion from the Reich of the non-German concerned. Publications which are counter to the general good are to be forbidden. We demand legal prosecution of artistic and literary forms which exert a destructive influence on our national life, and the closure of organizations opposing the above made demands.

We demand freedom of religion for all religious denominations within the state so long as they do not endanger its existence or oppose the moral senses of the Germanic race. The Party as such advocates the standpoint of a positive Christianity without binding itself confessionally to any one denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit within and around us, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our nation can only succeed from within on the framework: The common good before the individual good. (Gemeinnutz geht vor Eigennutz).[10] Has also been translated as "The good of the state before the good of the individual."[11]
For the execution of all of this we demand the formation of a strong central power in the Reich. Unlimited authority of the central parliament over the whole Reich and its organizations in general. The forming of state and profession chambers for the execution of the laws made by the Reich within the various states of the confederation. The leaders of the Party promise, if necessary by sacrificing their own lives, to support by the execution of the points set forth above without consideration.

You ever read the North Korea constitution? It's all bull****. Just like Hitler's points. It looks exactly the same, a bunch of things on paper that aren't fulfilled, just like Hitler's. He didn't fulfill any of them. You're forgetting I'm anti-socialist. You're forgetting I didn't vote for Bernie, I'm just trying to enlighten you on the idea that Nazis were socialists. You can say anything you want, if you don't do it then it doesn't mean anything.
Old    deltahoosier            08-30-2017, 2:29 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWakeIsReal View Post
You ever read the North Korea constitution? It's all bull****. Just like Hitler's points. It looks exactly the same, a bunch of things on paper that aren't fulfilled, just like Hitler's. He didn't fulfill any of them. You're forgetting I'm anti-socialist. You're forgetting I didn't vote for Bernie, I'm just trying to enlighten you on the idea that Nazis were socialists. You can say anything you want, if you don't do it then it doesn't mean anything.
" I'm just trying to enlighten you on the idea that Nazis were socialists."

Is that a typo or are you agreeing with me?

Sure many people speak a bunch of words and document them, but they don't work out. Obama and others say he was a good president, but that did not work out. I get the concept.

Nazi's are socialists. They are democratic socialists. They do not like communist because they do not like single party rule. They both want profits to the people and government control of production. Communists want government ownership of production on top of that. Gernany did control production pretty well but had private ownership Though private parties owned the factories, the profits were socialiized and pricing set. Industrialists who increased profits were jailed. Bernie Sanders is a Social Democrat. He does not want to end private ownership of corporations. He wants the profits socialized through democratic means (taxes).

One thing with the Nazi's is they also did not care about the people. The people were the tools to the state. Also as I posted above, Hilter was able to push for hatred against the Jews by pushing that Jews were materialistic, thus against his democratic socialist agenda where greed and materialism were bad. Jews were inherently materialist, thus they were against the state.

One apparent theme of socialists is pushing classes against each other. Always talking about class systems. Pushing envy all the time.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-30-2017, 3:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
Marxism is a path. The leftist in the Progressive movements want to put us into the socialist portion of the programming. The ANTIFA/ George Soros types want our boarders removed as does the UN dream. That vision is very consistent with the Communist websites vision statements and so on.

On Hitlers words. How can you not take his word for him being a socialist. Those quotes were his body of work since the early 1920's through the 1940's. That is 20 years of being consistent on what he was about. I brought his mindset and his quotes to this discussion. You bring the proof that the Nazi party was not? Bernie Sanders is a socialist. He in our form of government may not be able to mandate a instant switch to socialism, however that does not mean he is not a socialist.
If I'm not mistaken, communist nations have always had strict immigration policies and border crossers were typically shot dead on the spot. "Open borders" has never been a policy of communist countries.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-30-2017, 3:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
O Paleezzzze! The Libra Tards have been showing up and VIOLENTLY attacking conservatives that have a different opinion for MONTHS. This old hag Pelosi finally says's after months of saying NOTHING they condemn it!!!. No one care's or believes you. These ANTIFA people have no lives, And protesting is a Hobby to them, Artists Students, Burn Outs, and do you love how the media rushes into cover it 24/7 Reminds me of Black Friday coverage
Just to make sure I understand, Trump waits "months" to criticize the white-power movement and that's okay, but Pelosi waits and she is insincere?

So how about this, since you, Delta, and the other right-wingers want to lump all leftists with Antifa, then I guess you won't mind if I lump all right-wingers in with white supremacists.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-30-2017, 3:09 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
This is parts of the official 25 points of the Nazi Party. There were the official points of the party as ratified in 1920.

Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of debt (interest)-slavery.
In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people, personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore, we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

We demand the nationalisation of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).

We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.

We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.

We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality.

We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land.

We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers, profiteers and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of confession or race.

We demand substitution of a German common law in place of the Roman Law serving a materialistic world-order.

The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school [Staatsbürgerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.

The State is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young.
We demand abolition of the mercenary troops and formation of a national army.

We demand legal opposition to known lies and their promulgation through the press. In order to enable the provision of a German press, we demand, that:

a. All writers and employees of the newspapers appearing in the German language be members of the race;
b. Non-German newspapers be required to have the express permission of the State to be published. They may not be printed in the German language;
c. Non-Germans are forbidden by law any financial interest in German publications, or any influence on them, and as punishment for violations the closing of such a publication as well as the immediate expulsion from the Reich of the non-German concerned. Publications which are counter to the general good are to be forbidden. We demand legal prosecution of artistic and literary forms which exert a destructive influence on our national life, and the closure of organizations opposing the above made demands.

We demand freedom of religion for all religious denominations within the state so long as they do not endanger its existence or oppose the moral senses of the Germanic race. The Party as such advocates the standpoint of a positive Christianity without binding itself confessionally to any one denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit within and around us, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our nation can only succeed from within on the framework: The common good before the individual good. (Gemeinnutz geht vor Eigennutz).[10] Has also been translated as "The good of the state before the good of the individual."[11]
For the execution of all of this we demand the formation of a strong central power in the Reich. Unlimited authority of the central parliament over the whole Reich and its organizations in general. The forming of state and profession chambers for the execution of the laws made by the Reich within the various states of the confederation. The leaders of the Party promise, if necessary by sacrificing their own lives, to support by the execution of the points set forth above without consideration.
Who cares what Hitler said? He blamed all of Germany's economic problems on the Jews and non-Aryans. I didn't see that in any of the bullet points you listed.
Old    deltahoosier            08-31-2017, 10:02 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
If I'm not mistaken, communist nations have always had strict immigration policies and border crossers were typically shot dead on the spot. "Open borders" has never been a policy of communist countries.
That is the tricky portion of this. Some of the themes seem to blend. The more research I do, it seem things like fascism is ill defined to a certain degree. There is no real economic theory it seems (Italy).

If you look at mission statements of some of this modern communist web pages, they want the boarder destroyed so workers have free access. Also boarders lend to to a certain class structure so they want them destroyed. Our constitution is a big hurdle to these types of folks, however if they can get enough people who don't agree with the constitution, they can eventually start voting down provisions and vote in democratic socialism where they openly vote for to remove wealth and power from the industrialists. Odd thing is, the industrialists are socialized in my opinion. It is not one person or family who is holding onto all profits. The profits are shared in the stock market where everyone in the world has equal opportunity to invest and share in the profits.
Old    TheWakeIsReal            08-31-2017, 10:29 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
That is the tricky portion of this. Some of the themes seem to blend. The more research I do, it seem things like fascism is ill defined to a certain degree. There is no real economic theory it seems (Italy).
You're starting to understand what I've been telling you for a while. You can't just blanket groups of people and call them Communists, Socialists, fascists because every one of those is so broad, and then there is the case that many of them didn't follow anything they preached, like at all. So what are those? Are they truly a socialist country if they don't do anything socialist but label themselves socialists? No. Just like calling a group of leftists communists has no ****ing meaning whatsoever.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-31-2017, 10:46 AM Reply   
^^^^^^^^
"Ahhhh the chickens have come home to Roost"

But it's OK for the Libratards to label the right. Conservatives have always been labeled racist, fascist, nazis insert your own label here.

So what I find so incredibly hypocritical is you find these liberals calling conservatives fascist. Let's think about this the conservatives want less government, less regulation, less taxes. The list go's on. The liberals want the opposite more government oversight more government regulation more social programs. Do you liberals know what Fascism is ? I think you guys may be confused. Fascism by definition is more government control,regulation and oversight. So how can the conservative party that wants less of it be constantly accused of what the other party is pushing. Oh wait they've been doing that with racism this whole time. Liberals are the biggest racists out there but yet they constantly redirect.
Old    deltahoosier            08-31-2017, 11:55 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWakeIsReal View Post
You're starting to understand what I've been telling you for a while. You can't just blanket groups of people and call them Communists, Socialists, fascists because every one of those is so broad, and then there is the case that many of them didn't follow anything they preached, like at all. So what are those? Are they truly a socialist country if they don't do anything socialist but label themselves socialists? No. Just like calling a group of leftists communists has no ****ing meaning whatsoever.
It has plenty of meaning. Most people do not know the difference in nuance. Simple language allows the masses to understand the direction people are coming from. While you have an engineering background and deal in detail and nuance, the masses only deal in straight easy language.

You also have to understand that many of these political leaders believe in cultural shifts in the long haul. It is done by small manipulations of policy now in order to set up end game policies in the future. That is why people try to warn the masses about policy changes like giving illegals drivers licenses and voter motor bills. Immediately these policies may not matter, but later on you change one policy that takes away the check that these people are not voting and wala, they are absolutely voting. That is how that works. That is how that has always worked. Just like 9/11. The months leading up to that, racial profiling was the big issue The charge was lead by CAIR. Law enforcement was afraid to question people. Next thing you know, 12 muslims get on a few planes and everyone is afraid to flag it. You know what happened after that.

Outside forces are always looking for angles to take down America. If you don't acknowledge that, then we really have nothing to speak about because there will be no convincing you or anyone in the mater.

Many of the these "Communist" countries are socialist, but only for the underclass while the ruling class always has the lavish lifestyle. Are they really communist or even socialist in the ruling class? No, however their policies are for the others.

Calling the ANTIFA communists absolutely has meaning because that is who they are. That is what they strive to be. Just because they do not live in a communist country and have power does not mean they are not communists. Why do we want their ideas and methods?
Old    deltahoosier            08-31-2017, 12:09 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
^^^^^^^^
"Ahhhh the chickens have come home to Roost"

But it's OK for the Libratards to label the right. Conservatives have always been labeled racist, fascist, nazis insert your own label here.

So what I find so incredibly hypocritical is you find these liberals calling conservatives fascist. Let's think about this the conservatives want less government, less regulation, less taxes. The list go's on. The liberals want the opposite more government oversight more government regulation more social programs. Do you liberals know what Fascism is ? I think you guys may be confused. Fascism by definition is more government control,regulation and oversight. So how can the conservative party that wants less of it be constantly accused of what the other party is pushing. Oh wait they've been doing that with racism this whole time. Liberals are the biggest racists out there but yet they constantly redirect.
Grant. Simple tactic proven by history, is to accuse the other of being what you are. The Brown ****s perfected that technique. That is why the German communists worked with Hitler because they were in lock step and came to the next logical conclusion that when the people saw the good done by the socialization of the country that they would take the next step in the revolution where people would want to be equal. Instead, Hitler stabbed them in the back. He outlawed the communist party and arrested their leaders (who helped Hitler get into power). ANITFA was the violent resistance arm of the communist party of Germany to combat the Nazi's. The Nazi's socialized the profits of production but did not fully take of the means of production. They did however socialized the workers, but instead of the marxist communist dream coming to pass, they forced the workers to be equal high performers to keep the workers social contract with the state. If they were not able to keep up, they became defacto slaves in concentration camps as it appears. That is against the workers rights portion of the communist manifesto. Only certain types of people were equal (not all the pigs are equal said the pigs after they got rid of the farmer). That seems to be the portions that brought them to odds with the communist dreams. The communists loved the take over of industry and socialization of profits. They loved the talk of all people being equal that the nazi's spoke about (though it was pretty clear that Hitler already spoke about Jews and others not being equal because they loved money).
Old    TheWakeIsReal            08-31-2017, 12:12 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
^^^^^^^^
"Ahhhh the chickens have come home to Roost"

But it's OK for the Libratards to label the right. Conservatives have always been labeled racist, fascist, nazis insert your own label here.

So what I find so incredibly hypocritical is you find these liberals calling conservatives fascist. Let's think about this the conservatives want less government, less regulation, less taxes. The list go's on. The liberals want the opposite more government oversight more government regulation more social programs. Do you liberals know what Fascism is ? I think you guys may be confused. Fascism by definition is more government control,regulation and oversight. So how can the conservative party that wants less of it be constantly accused of what the other party is pushing. Oh wait they've been doing that with racism this whole time. Liberals are the biggest racists out there but yet they constantly redirect.
This is my point.

THERE IS MORE THAN ONE TYPE OF FASCISM.

This is what you, Delta, and Dennis cannot ****ing comprehend for some reason. Trump checks off MANY things on the fascism check list.

POPULISM
NATIONALISM
PATRIOTISM
MILITARISM
CORPORATISM

He checks all of this. Another heavy fascist idea is attacking the media and trying to hush your opponents. He does this as well. I haven't labeled any of you Nazi's, Fascists or anything. Racists? A number of people on here walk that line.

You're missing Trumps logic completely and you're correct, a normal conservative isn't economically fascist, but you must not have followed what Trump is preaching. He is anti-capitalist in many of his moves and wants government regulation on where you can have factories, tarrifs, import/export taxes. You might not be able to comprehend this, but forcing jobs to stay in the country IS NOT CAPITALISM.
Old    deltahoosier            08-31-2017, 12:30 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWakeIsReal View Post
This is my point.

THERE IS MORE THAN ONE TYPE OF FASCISM.

This is what you, Delta, and Dennis cannot ****ing comprehend for some reason. Trump checks off MANY things on the fascism check list.

POPULISM
NATIONALISM
PATRIOTISM
MILITARISM
CORPORATISM

He checks all of this. Another heavy fascist idea is attacking the media and trying to hush your opponents. He does this as well. I haven't labeled any of you Nazi's, Fascists or anything. Racists? A number of people on here walk that line.

Militarism? We have had a strong military since the 1940's as we learned the lesson of allowing dictators getting hold in the world by not having a strong active presence. we also had the threat of communist spread that could happen in a moments notice to our allies. We have a social contract through NATO and the UN.

Let me ask you this. Was Obama checking off fascism when he said that boarders must be secure and when he kept the wars going and kept a relatively strong military?

You're missing Trumps logic completely and you're correct, a normal conservative isn't economically fascist, but you must not have followed what Trump is preaching. He is anti-capitalist in many of his moves and wants government regulation on where you can have factories, tarrifs, import/export taxes. You might not be able to comprehend this, but forcing jobs to stay in the country IS NOT CAPITALISM.
We were never capitalist so there is that. We have always had tariffs and certain protections for our workers. They tried the grand experiment with NAFTA and the results are mixed, however it has shifted our economy and many argue for the worse as predicted by that little big eared guy (Perot) that ran for president.

We have been nationalists since forever. Having boarder by definition is nationalist. You always had to come to the country legals even when you could just get on a boat, you had to stop at Ellis Island to get documented. We have since moved to a country with more social contracts so you have to limit what type of worker can come in because economically you can not have un- mitigated monetary payouts. That is a fact.

As far as the press goes? That would be an issue if the press was actually the press. The press is not the press anymore. They are not interested in facts, they are paid hit machines of the left for the most part. The bias is so alarming that I do not trust a single word they are saying anymore if it has anything to do with politics. I firmly believe that someone should call them out on their lies and why not the person who is being lied about? IF not, then who?

For the reason you say Trump checks the boxes, I think Obama and the democrats check of the box for communism.
Central Authority (UN)
Open boarders for America so they can become part of the central authority (the UN)
American Wealth distribution
Class Warfare
Removal of religion to be replaced by the state
Old    deltahoosier            08-31-2017, 12:38 PM Reply   
We are not a pure anything in this country however we as Americans should be for our way of life and our survival. You are never going to succeed in anything in life if you are constantly brought down to the lowest common denominator. That is a bit like Hitler right? However it is a simple truth. Question is, do you allow the least common denominator to exist? Hitler said no. We in America say yes.

That is why you need private industry and government. Private industry allows for quick reaction to changing markets, however government provides the social contract and the compassion to a certain degree. The world would never work with complete capitalism, nor would be work with strict government control. Absolute power has always ended in a repressive ruling class.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-31-2017, 1:53 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
^^^^^^^^
"Ahhhh the chickens have come home to Roost"

But it's OK for the Libratards to label the right. Conservatives have always been labeled racist, fascist, nazis insert your own label here.

So what I find so incredibly hypocritical is you find these liberals calling conservatives fascist. Let's think about this the conservatives want less government, less regulation, less taxes. The list go's on. The liberals want the opposite more government oversight more government regulation more social programs. Do you liberals know what Fascism is ? I think you guys may be confused. Fascism by definition is more government control,regulation and oversight. So how can the conservative party that wants less of it be constantly accused of what the other party is pushing. Oh wait they've been doing that with racism this whole time. Liberals are the biggest racists out there but yet they constantly redirect.
Yeah, and conservatives also like to shove their Christianity down people's throats and try to force it on everyone by placing their beliefs into their legislation. The conservatives in TN are attempting to pass a bill that makes the Holy Bible the state book.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-31-2017, 2:02 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
That is the tricky portion of this. Some of the themes seem to blend. The more research I do, it seem things like fascism is ill defined to a certain degree. There is no real economic theory it seems (Italy).

If you look at mission statements of some of this modern communist web pages, they want the boarder destroyed so workers have free access. Also boarders lend to to a certain class structure so they want them destroyed. Our constitution is a big hurdle to these types of folks, however if they can get enough people who don't agree with the constitution, they can eventually start voting down provisions and vote in democratic socialism where they openly vote for to remove wealth and power from the industrialists. Odd thing is, the industrialists are socialized in my opinion. It is not one person or family who is holding onto all profits. The profits are shared in the stock market where everyone in the world has equal opportunity to invest and share in the profits.
Okay, who cares about the "mission statements of modern communists" when that crap has a 0% chance of being anything more than the theme of a social club. I am telling you that when you look back at actual real life Communist countries, they would either kill or sentence you to 25 years in the gulag for illegal border crossings. I don't care what the internet ramblings of some loser say about "open borders".
Old    deltahoosier            08-31-2017, 2:17 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Okay, who cares about the "mission statements of modern communists" when that crap has a 0% chance of being anything more than the theme of a social club. I am telling you that when you look back at actual real life Communist countries, they would either kill or sentence you to 25 years in the gulag for illegal border crossings. I don't care what the internet ramblings of some loser say about "open borders".
Uh.... The democrat party has been actively pursuing open boarders through illegal immigration for some time.

Only reason real life communist countries kill people who cross the boarder is outsides bring descention (sp?) from the group think that has been cultivated from the top down. It is through paranoia not ideology. Also, those communist countries never really made it into communism if you go by what Marxist teaching. They were in a intermediate socialist authoritarian phase. The communist seem to believe that people will phase through that and into a socialist utopia.

If you listen to some of these ANTIFA interviews, these people always want communism and state that communism has never really existed so they want to try it basically. One of these interviews, that this guy named Fleeca (sp??) who goes to these rallies to interview people, actually quoted Start Trek as an example of how it could work.

As far as mission statements of modern communists (who are quoting actual all time communist doctrine), they are trying to do things that usher in revolution so America will move into the socialist phase. You have two methods. The progressives who want it though the vote. Then you have this new breed of activist who are out beating up people who want revolution though violence. These techniques they are using have been proven effective in history and they are trying to act them out right now.
Old    deltahoosier            08-31-2017, 2:22 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Okay, who cares about the "mission statements of modern communists" when that crap has a 0% chance of being anything more than the theme of a social club. I am telling you that when you look back at actual real life Communist countries, they would either kill or sentence you to 25 years in the gulag for illegal border crossings. I don't care what the internet ramblings of some loser say about "open borders".
also, you say zero change of our boarder being desolved? California has defacto made non citizens and regular citizens not distiguishable. Besides the pesky feds, there is nothing that stands in a illegal aliens way of performing any duty and gaining rights and benefits of any citizen. So, without the feds, California is exactly what you described as a zero chance. Now illegals have enough standing that we will never be able to vote them off the state funds even though 70 plus % voted over a decade ago to make it illegal for them to get funds, they own the judges who said it is not constitutional to not allow them to have funds from the tax payer.

This will keep spreading.
Old    deltahoosier            08-31-2017, 2:25 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Yeah, and conservatives also like to shove their Christianity down people's throats and try to force it on everyone by placing their beliefs into their legislation. The conservatives in TN are attempting to pass a bill that makes the Holy Bible the state book.
If they did that, then they would be going back to the original federalist ideas. Tell me what is being forced down your throat from a religious principle. I keep hearing that, but I don't see you forced into a church. You are allowed to not worship a god.

If people such as yourself believe the bible is fiction, then it is just a book like Huck Fin. So, what is the issue?
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       08-31-2017, 2:35 PM Reply   
Please don't dissolve any boarders. They tend to be good people for the most part in my experience.

Delineation of countries are borders.
Old    deltahoosier            08-31-2017, 2:38 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
Please don't dissolve any boarders. They tend to be good people for the most part in my experience.

Delineation of countries are borders.
Yes. Good catch on the spelling. well played.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-31-2017, 5:09 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
If they did that, then they would be going back to the original federalist ideas. Tell me what is being forced down your throat from a religious principle. I keep hearing that, but I don't see you forced into a church. You are allowed to not worship a god.

If people such as yourself believe the bible is fiction, then it is just a book like Huck Fin. So, what is the issue?
Gay people not being able to marry is strictly a biblical thing. Give me a break Delta, I said nothing about being "forced into a church". But to say that Conservatives don't try to make Christianity more a part of how the legislate is very dishonest. I don't force my non-belief on people, why can't they offer the same courtesy? I don't see atheists going door to door or passing out pamphlets in the park.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-31-2017, 5:15 PM Reply   
Delta, How many illegals is trump deporting and how many illegals was Obama deporting?
I don't understand why you say
Quote:
The democrat party has been actively pursuing open boarders through illegal immigration for some time.
I'd do the search but you wont believe mine.

As I kinda predicted a few days ago, Dems distancing themselves and denouncing Antifa. I'm glad.
Old     (deneng)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-03-2017, 5:38 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
Delta, How many illegals is trump deporting and how many illegals was Obama deporting?
I don't understand why you say

I'd do the search but you wont believe mine.

As I kinda predicted a few days ago, Dems distancing themselves and denouncing Antifa. I'm glad.
Yes, and so did Adolph Hitler with the Brown Shirts or SA.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-05-2017, 7:26 PM Reply   
those who do not fight real evil fight statues
100% Agree, I love it " The left does not fight radical Islam the left fights Islamaphobia"

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2017/...fight-statues/
Old    TheWakeIsReal            09-06-2017, 7:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
those who do not fight real evil fight statues
100% Agree, I love it " The left does not fight radical Islam the left fights Islamaphobia"

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2017/...fight-statues/
Yeah cause Obama never did anything to combat radical Islam? Do you think before you type?
Old    deltahoosier            09-12-2017, 10:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Gay people not being able to marry is strictly a biblical thing. Give me a break Delta, I said nothing about being "forced into a church". But to say that Conservatives don't try to make Christianity more a part of how the legislate is very dishonest. I don't force my non-belief on people, why can't they offer the same courtesy? I don't see atheists going door to door or passing out pamphlets in the park.
Gay people marrying is biblical and the state should be out of marriage except for trying to give incentives for people to marry and have children. Having children is necessary to replenishing the work force and the military for a government. Other than that, it is a religious pact and the state should be out of it.
Passing out pamphlets is not legislation. I see liberals trying to wipe out the existence of Christianity all the time. Hell. One can not even post a pro Christian stance on this board without all you atheists jumping in to hate on it. So, I would say that you and others constantly try and force your beliefs on others. Heck, that is the whole point of the current American liberalism. They want the government to tell you how to live.

Last edited by deltahoosier; 09-12-2017 at 10:49 AM.
Old    deltahoosier            09-12-2017, 10:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
Delta, How many illegals is trump deporting and how many illegals was Obama deporting?
I don't understand why you say

I'd do the search but you wont believe mine.

As I kinda predicted a few days ago, Dems distancing themselves and denouncing Antifa. I'm glad.
Obama has done little to deport illegals. He changed a policy that changes the way they count deportations. Simple adminstrative window dressing to fool the people.

Dems distancing themselves? Someone must have rang the bell telling them what to say. Only heard a couple of them denounce it and that was only because they were directly confronted with the question. Are you saying Trump was correct in denouncing both sides in Virginia? How do you guys walk that back?
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       09-12-2017, 12:51 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
Obama has done little to deport illegals. He changed a policy that changes the way they count deportations. Simple adminstrative window dressing to fool the people.

Dems distancing themselves? Someone must have rang the bell telling them what to say. Only heard a couple of them denounce it and that was only because they were directly confronted with the question. Are you saying Trump was correct in denouncing both sides in Virginia? How do you guys walk that back?
ok, don't use "his" policy to count.... so based on your research using fair numbers, How many is trump deporting and how many was Obama deporting? How many more Border Patrol officers have been hired? Simple questions.

Yes, they are doing the right thing. Trump/GOP on the other hand,,,when they were confronted directly (and had time to compose themselves) still support white nationalists. BTW, trump said "there were good people on both sides" Please point out the "good" Nazis. lol
Antifa are independent radicals. They do not campaign for dems, they do not vote dem, they don't run for office as dems and dems do not appear at their events or support them. They openly denounced them.
On the other hand...Alt right/white nationalists do campaign for Trump/GOP they donate $$. They celebrate GOP victories. They voted for trump and GOP and GOP representatives are at their rallies. Trump administration has coddled, courted and defended them.
So, no need to walk anything back while trump is rolling out the red carpet for the klan.
Old    deltahoosier            09-12-2017, 2:09 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
ok, don't use "his" policy to count.... so based on your research using fair numbers, How many is trump deporting and how many was Obama deporting? How many more Border Patrol officers have been hired? Simple questions.

Yes, they are doing the right thing. Trump/GOP on the other hand,,,when they were confronted directly (and had time to compose themselves) still support white nationalists. BTW, trump said "there were good people on both sides" Please point out the "good" Nazis. lol
Antifa are independent radicals. They do not campaign for dems, they do not vote dem, they don't run for office as dems and dems do not appear at their events or support them. They openly denounced them.
On the other hand...Alt right/white nationalists do campaign for Trump/GOP they donate $$. They celebrate GOP victories. They voted for trump and GOP and GOP representatives are at their rallies. Trump administration has coddled, courted and defended them.
So, no need to walk anything back while trump is rolling out the red carpet for the klan.
No one has ever supported white nationalists. That is a made up meme. If I were in Virginia, I would have been there supporting keeping the statue. Actually, I support keeping the statue from where I sit in California. I am certainly not a nazi. Just like every person for taking down the statue was not a communist like ANTIFA. There were good hearted people on both sides. If you can't see that, then you are part of the issue. Very few people there were nazi's. Ever notice the pictures of the "nazi's" at the rally. Notice how they were tight shots and not wide shots? If they were all nazi's, there would have been great big crowd view photo's of it. Fact is they were not all nazi's and i resent that you would consider people who want to keep their statues as nazi's. You sound like the ANTIFA *******s. we are here to fight fascists, however, we label you are all fascists.

ANTIFA is a democrat organization who just so happens to be replacing the other democrat organization (KKK). They are funded by democrat donors. Funny how they have a budget to bused into all these rallies from around the country.

On people supporting a candidate, there are only two candidates. The people pretty much end up voting for one or the other. Democrats elected an actual KKK member all the way up until 2010 when he got to old and sick/ died. Bill Clinton even tried to justify his relationship with the democrat party. You don't even know what alt right is as it was a made up term just recently. According to you leftists, I am alt right. JFK would be alt right if he were to run today.

On deportation:

Donald Trump was the self-described “law and order candidate,” who vowed five days after he won the U.S. presidential election to immediately deport 2 to 3 million undocumented immigrants who had committed crimes. Now, 91 days into his presidency, new figures show he has fallen far short of that promise.

Between Trump taking office on January 20 and March 13, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement arrested 21,362 undocumented immigrants and deported 54,741 people. Compared to the same period last year, this marks both an increase and a decrease. Under Trump, arrests are up by 33 percent, but deportations are down by 1.2 percent.

This is how Trump’s deportations differ from Obama’s

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.3e6bd7d8a23a

The Washington Post’s Maria Sacchetti found that ICE arrested 21,362 immigrants since Trump took office; immigration arrests are up more than 32.6 percent from the same period last year. However, deportations are slightly lower, down by 1.2 percent.

Why the difference? Arrests and deportations aren’t simultaneous. Before immigrants can be deported, their cases must wind through the sprawling immigration bureaucracy. That bureaucracy is severely backlogged, with more than 530,000 cases pending. Some immigration courts are scheduling hearings six years from now. Once arrested, an immigrant may not show up as a deportation statistic for months or years.

http://www.migrationpolicy.org/artic...r-chief-or-not

The Obama Record on Deportations: Deporter in Chief or Not?

Border apprehensions and removals increased in FY 2016 compared to the prior year, DHS reported. In FY 2016, DHS carried out 530,250 apprehensions and 344,354 removals, compared to 462,388 apprehensions and 333,341 removals a year earlier. Despite the increase, these numbers were far lower than the peak of enforcement operations at the beginning of the Obama years, after he inherited a robust enforcement regime from his predecessors. These numbers dipped as new enforcement priorities were put in place, before rebounding slightly at the end of the Obama presidency.

As a result of these resources and strategies, noncitizen removals increased significantly, while apprehensions and overall deportations both remained far lower than the numbers seen under the Bush and Clinton administrations.



Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       09-12-2017, 3:00 PM Reply   
Delta that's interesting data. The apprehensions number is a good point as it primes the pipeline for deportations.

Two things jump out to me from the table:

1. Border arrests are at least in part a function of attempted border crossings. So the significant drop in 09-10 seems to continue the trend from 07-08. Could it be that immigrants quit coming in when economy soured? Dunno. But the data isn't really meaningful without the context of attempted crossings.

2. What are "removals" vs. "returns"? Are these "deported by force of law" and "went back on my own" or something different?
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       09-12-2017, 3:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Why the difference? Arrests and deportations aren’t simultaneous. Before immigrants can be deported, their cases must wind through the sprawling immigration bureaucracy. That bureaucracy is severely backlogged, with more than 530,000 cases pending. Some immigration courts are scheduling hearings six years from now. Once arrested, an immigrant may not show up as a deportation statistic for months or years.
Damn, less than the guy before.
Appears trump should working on a way fix the bureaucracy, create a better funnel, than blowing tax dollars on a inefficient and expensive wall. An experienced businessman or apparently a community organizer would.

Quote:
On people supporting a candidate, there are only two candidates. The people pretty much end up voting for one or the other. Democrats elected an actual KKK member all the way up until 2010 when he got to old and sick/ died. Bill Clinton even tried to justify his relationship with the democrat party. You don't even know what alt right is as it was a made up term just recently. According to you leftists, I am alt right. JFK would be alt right if he were to run today.
It sucks when instead of responding with a reasonable explanation the answer is... Yeah but what about...
GOP is much more in bed with alt-right/kkk/Nazi/white nationalist... than Dems support antifa in any way, shape, or form.

I goggled "Charlottesville" images. There are plenty of big pics showing hundreds with lit torches chanting. Looked pretty racist. I looked up a couple videos, sure enough they were chanting and saying some highly racist things. Its pretty clear who was there and what the goal is. Not so sure about their good hearts.

Where you been man? If on Vaca, hope you enjoyed it.
Old    deltahoosier            09-12-2017, 3:41 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
Damn, less than the guy before.
Appears trump should working on a way fix the bureaucracy, create a better funnel, than blowing tax dollars on a inefficient and expensive wall. An experienced businessman or apparently a community organizer would.



It sucks when instead of responding with a reasonable explanation the answer is... Yeah but what about...
GOP is much more in bed with alt-right/kkk/Nazi/white nationalist... than Dems support antifa in any way, shape, or form.

I goggled "Charlottesville" images. There are plenty of big pics showing hundreds with lit torches chanting. Looked pretty racist. I looked up a couple videos, sure enough they were chanting and saying some highly racist things. Its pretty clear who was there and what the goal is. Not so sure about their good hearts.

Where you been man? If on Vaca, hope you enjoyed it.
Pretty sure that is not what the words mean. They are up by 32% Illegal immigration is reported to be down by 70%. Not sure how that meets with your version of truth.

Not sure that torches equals racism. I am sure a some where chanting, just like you democrats were chanting to take down the USA in a different video. Should I bring up the images of burned out police cars, dead cops and burned out buildings that you democrats did? Again, a few hundred nazi's at best, 7600 democrats at a brony show. I say democrats, because republicans are not that lite in the shorts as to be a brony. I am sure the counter protestors were there at night with the rest of the democrat kkk types. During the day, that is when violence occured, there were all sorts of different people there. Sure, you democrats came out with your torches at night like you usually do.

Dems absolutely support ANTIFA. Where do they get their budget from? The progressives have taken over the democrat party and the ANTIFA's are progressive democrats.

Ask again. You going to walk back the comments about Trump now that your democrat hero's are slowly walking back there hero of the left comments about ANTIFA? Or do you still support ANTIFA?

Yep. Been on vacation. Did 9 days in Hawaii visiting my daughter.
Old    deltahoosier            09-13-2017, 10:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Delta that's interesting data. The apprehensions number is a good point as it primes the pipeline for deportations.

Two things jump out to me from the table:

1. Border arrests are at least in part a function of attempted border crossings. So the significant drop in 09-10 seems to continue the trend from 07-08. Could it be that immigrants quit coming in when economy soured? Dunno. But the data isn't really meaningful without the context of attempted crossings.

2. What are "removals" vs. "returns"? Are these "deported by force of law" and "went back on my own" or something different?
Sorry. Did not notice your reply. I am sure as the economy soured there was a certain amount not coming. They seem to come in support of the construction industry when housing is booming. There also can be an order to move resources and so on.

Found this. Deportations are no longer categorized as deportations anymore. They now have two subsections as described by policy.

Removals vs returns: how to think about Obama’s deportation record

https://bipartisanpolicy.org/article...tation-record/

Some critics took issue with that characterization — and the dispute here hinges on the fact that there’s no longer any official definition of “deportation.” The terminology has changed as policy has changed, and that’s creating some confusion today as to what should count as a deportation…

These days, the term “removal” includes everything that used to be considered a deportation or exclusion.

“Returns,” meanwhile, are a very specific immigration enforcement action. According to Theresa Brown of the Bipartisan Policy Center, returns refer to Canadians or Mexicans who were trying to enter illegally and were apprehended at their own border. These people, instead of being formally placed into proceedings, are simply turned around and prevented from entering the United States. (Before 2006, this was known as a “voluntary departure.”)


Full Article:

https://www.vox.com/2014/4/11/560227...of-immigration

'Deportation' is no longer an official legal term
Old    deltahoosier            09-13-2017, 10:51 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Delta that's interesting data. The apprehensions number is a good point as it primes the pipeline for deportations.

Two things jump out to me from the table:

1. Border arrests are at least in part a function of attempted border crossings. So the significant drop in 09-10 seems to continue the trend from 07-08. Could it be that immigrants quit coming in when economy soured? Dunno. But the data isn't really meaningful without the context of attempted crossings.

2. What are "removals" vs. "returns"? Are these "deported by force of law" and "went back on my own" or something different?
Basically if you look at the "Returns" column, you will notice the amount steadily goes down and down through Obama's presidency. While he does have a few more removals, there is significantly less stops at the border. I doubt those folks stopped coming in, so they are in country as we speak. Their children will be voting in the next few years as to the plan.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       09-13-2017, 4:07 PM Reply   
QUOTE=deltahoosier;1967191]Pretty sure that is not what the words mean. They are up by 32% Illegal immigration is reported to be down by 70%. Not sure how that meets with your version of truth.

Not sure that torches equals racism. I am sure a some where chanting, just like you democrats were chanting to take down the USA in a different video. Should I bring up the images of burned out police cars, dead cops and burned out buildings that you democrats did? Again, a few hundred nazi's at best, 7600 democrats at a brony show. I say democrats, because republicans are not that lite in the shorts as to be a brony. I am sure the counter protestors were there at night with the rest of the democrat kkk types. During the day, that is when violence occured, there were all sorts of different people there. Sure, you democrats came out with your torches at night like you usually do.

Dems absolutely support ANTIFA. Where do they get their budget from? The progressives have taken over the democrat party and the ANTIFA's are progressive democrats.

Ask again. You going to walk back the comments about Trump now that your democrat hero's are slowly walking back there hero of the left comments about ANTIFA? Or do you still support ANTIFA?

Yep. Been on vacation. Did 9 days in Hawaii visiting my daughter.[/QUOTE]

No. 1, seriously jealous/envious of your Hawaii trip, I cant even remember the last time I got away even for a weekend and dipped my boat in the water. I guess you could have lined me up a nice trip to the BVI last week
Agree, Immigration is down SIGNIFICANTLY. Continue beefing up border thru added agents and automation, make DACA law. Immigration now should not be a major US problem.

I'm fairly confident that torches and chanting things like "Blood and Soil" , "Jews will not replace us" and making statements to the press like "This city is run by Jewish communists and criminal ******s". (site blocks the "N" word ending in ers) Rod do you think that qualifies as racist?
I thought I read somewhere that democrats not only denounced antifa publicly they filed suit to declare them a gang so that enhanced gang violence laws would apply to them. That my friend is slightly more than trumps "nice people on both sides" load of crapola.
Scroll up, I denounced antifa a while ago, in this thread and the other one G started. In fact I asked for new non violent remedys and provided an idea. I didn't understand who they were at Berkley. I was happy they showed up at Charlottesville because I don't agree with racists. I quickly came to my senses. Answered again.
I had to google what a brony was. What % is old enough to vote? Seems like kids? pony cartoons? Odd thing to rally around. Still, labeling them all democrats is irrational. By that pattern...wouldn't everyone at most any concert, museum, art exhibit and everyone in california....be a democrat? There are plenty of gay republicans too. You got kaitlin jenner wearing a MAGA hat too, remember
Old     (deneng)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-14-2017, 10:49 AM Reply   
Why are citizens standing up against the left? Because they are Anarchists, Communists, Socialist and anti American.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yp2eE7hxD0s
Old     (deneng)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-14-2017, 11:00 AM Reply   
What did Killary really say? I am so glad she did not win the election.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY9zpv7nZYo
Old    deltahoosier            09-14-2017, 11:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
No. 1, seriously jealous/envious of your Hawaii trip, I cant even remember the last time I got away even for a weekend and dipped my boat in the water. I guess you could have lined me up a nice trip to the BVI last week
Agree, Immigration is down SIGNIFICANTLY. Continue beefing up border thru added agents and automation, make DACA law. Immigration now should not be a major US problem.

I'm fairly confident that torches and chanting things like "Blood and Soil" , "Jews will not replace us" and making statements to the press like "This city is run by Jewish communists and criminal ******s". (site blocks the "N" word ending in ers) Rod do you think that qualifies as racist?
I thought I read somewhere that democrats not only denounced antifa publicly they filed suit to declare them a gang so that enhanced gang violence laws would apply to them. That my friend is slightly more than trumps "nice people on both sides" load of crapola.
Scroll up, I denounced antifa a while ago, in this thread and the other one G started. In fact I asked for new non violent remedys and provided an idea. I didn't understand who they were at Berkley. I was happy they showed up at Charlottesville because I don't agree with racists. I quickly came to my senses. Answered again.
I had to google what a brony was. What % is old enough to vote? Seems like kids? pony cartoons? Odd thing to rally around. Still, labeling them all democrats is irrational. By that pattern...wouldn't everyone at most any concert, museum, art exhibit and everyone in california....be a democrat? There are plenty of gay republicans too. You got kaitlin jenner wearing a MAGA hat too, remember
Oh course it is racist. It sounds like they got part of it right. I am sure that town is ran by communist wanna be's.

I don't think the democrats filed anything on ANTIFA. Certain states already declared them a terror organization. Berkeley now has permission to use pepper spray on the terrorist for the Ben Shapiro talk.

Only reason anyone from the democrats are denouncing them, is they are off the plantation. The liberal professors have created the monster that the democrats were not able to completely able to control yet. Add a little funding from Sorros and you continue to lose elections. If the ANTIFA were helping democrats win elections, they would not say a word.

They thought they had a winner after Virginia. Things that happen on the west coast do not get much coverage on the east coast. They have not paid attention to what these terrorists do. A bunch of democrat/ occupy wall street guys organize a keep the confederate statues march in Virginia. You better believe that is going to attract a few nazi types (including the ones that were bussed in by Sorros to play nazi. Notice the new out of the box nazi flags iun those pitures?). All you have to say is nazi and kkk and no matter what, everyone is for beating them up. ANTIFA was a hero for a minute to the mentally weak. Now the east coast press is watching. Then ANTIFA did what ANTIFA does. They label everyone a nazi and they beat up some other regular people with the press watching this time. They were now out of the closet nationally and the democrats are feeling the heat. That is why a couple democrats denounced them.

WIth that said, not everyone at the rally was kkk or ANFITA. So the fact remains. There were good people there and there were people there to start trouble on both sides. Those are facts.

Sorry. I don't care that you denounced ANTIFA earlier. You did not denounce them when I wanted you to so it does not count. In my mind you are now part of their organization. May as well get your hood on. Sound rational? Trump had denounce KKK and nazi's a long time ago. It is even on film. Why does he need to do it over and over? The expectations are unreasonable when dealing with people who want you to not exist.

Brony's are defined as men that enjoy My Little Pony Cartoons and like the coos play with it as far as I can tell. I don't know if they are democrats, but it sure feels like it. haha. That is the point though. You have 10 times the amount of men who will stop what they are doing to find their way to a brony convention then you do kkk and nazi's that had months to plan for the "big show down" in Virginia. Do we really have a nazi problem?

On the Hawaii front. First time ever getting to go on a vacation. Only reason I could do it is because my daughter and son in law live there. Good time. Got to go where the tourist were not for the most part.
Old     (deneng)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-14-2017, 11:17 AM Reply   
Top democrat law man calls for violence
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZGr-dUtMyY
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       09-14-2017, 3:18 PM Reply   
Quote:
Brony's are defined as men that enjoy My Little Pony Cartoons and like the coos play with it as far as I can tell. I don't know if they are democrats, but it sure feels like it. haha.
Dude, that's just weird. Maybe what an emo does when they grow up? I'm too old to understand. I don't get any of that brony...coos play...none of it.
Quote:
Only reason anyone from the democrats are denouncing them, is they are off the plantation
They got out of control and cant tell right from wrong.
Quote:
On the Hawaii front. First time ever getting to go on a vacation. Only reason I could do it is because my daughter and son in law live there. Good time. Got to go where the tourist were not for the most part.
For sure its the BEST way. I have been on several trips and stayed with friends family, they took us around to do what they liked...not the touristy stuff, way better, more fun less expensive plus you meet more locals that enrich the experience.
Old    deltahoosier            09-15-2017, 11:18 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
Dude, that's just weird. Maybe what an emo does when they grow up? I'm too old to understand. I don't get any of that brony...coos play...none of it.

They got out of control and cant tell right from wrong.

For sure its the BEST way. I have been on several trips and stayed with friends family, they took us around to do what they liked...not the touristy stuff, way better, more fun less expensive plus you meet more locals that enrich the experience.
I feel you on the brony and coos play stuff. Lots of odd people out there. Unfortunately the internet gives all a somewhat equal sound board.

The Bay Area is an odd echo chamber to begin with. That is why it is dangerous to have California leading the national politics for the democrats. These people still believe it is the 50's and 60's socially. Many of the locals like to lecture on "how people are" and have no idea where the other states even are. My wife worked with a liberal lady who actually wanted to argue that people from India were not Asian. One of the people she was having the argument with family was actually from India. Could not make this stuff up if I tried.

I was fortunate to be able to go over to Hawaii. Very midwest vibe (minus the snow and lack of beaches). People were supper nice. I guess there is some local beaches on the north side that are not so nice people (to non locals). Over all really dig the people. Don't dig the prices. whew. Lucky for us we could go to the store and cook at home. Waikiki beach reminds me of Vegas strip in a way. High prices, lots of hotels, mass humanity, and the person paid to hassle you to come into their shop.
Old     (deneng)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-16-2017, 7:53 AM Reply   
Liberals voicing their concerns against white supremecists . Very similar words voiced by liberals on this web site.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyfDQlBHR8s
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       09-18-2017, 10:14 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deneng View Post
Liberals voicing their concerns against white supremecists . Very similar words voiced by liberals on this web site.
Wow, people using words, especially similar ones. That must be really grinding your gears.
Old    deltahoosier            09-20-2017, 9:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
Wow, people using words, especially similar ones. That must be really grinding your gears.
I think the words being used in the video are not favorable to liberals on this site.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       09-20-2017, 10:39 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
I think the words being used in the video are not favorable to liberals on this site.
Which liberals on this site were in the video?
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       09-20-2017, 12:45 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deneng View Post
Top democrat law man calls for violence
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZGr-dUtMyY

The thought of a civil war between the left and the right is funny in a way. I hope they have more than hula hoops and yoga mats to to fight against conservatives.

The democratic leaders have an interesting strategy for taking back the white house.....Create wide spread hate for Trump and his supporters. Meanwhile democratic sheep are out waive anti-hate signs while hating everyone and everything.
Old    deltahoosier            09-20-2017, 1:00 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
Which liberals on this site were in the video?
It was uncanny. I was like I was reading the words of the people off this site but it was like a puppet master was making the same words come out of these 18 year old mouths. Who knew there was so much talent for puppetry with the people on this website.

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