Selling boat prices vs. NADA

I've been looking at boats recently and a lot of these guys listing prices are completely blowing NADA blue book out of the water. Thousands of dollars above what NADA suggests. Granted some of them have extra's like tower, speakers, ballasts, but not enough to justify thousands over blue book. So who's wrong? NADA or the sellers? I'm mostly talking about older MC Prostars, Supra Sunsports, CC sports, etc. I don't see how anyone could get a loan for a lot of these boats without putting a considerable amount down. A bank isn't going to give you a note for a boat that's $6k+ over it's suggested value.

boats that are ten yrs old or older in good shape typically sell well above nada.

Most people are trying to sell for what they owe.

IMO NADA is not very accurate. but unfortunately it's what loan values are based on...

Banks/nada are much more conservative in their lending/pricing on luxury items.....like they should have been years ago.

I've found that Nada values are only good for newer boats &/or boats that haven't been modifed (slalom). Also NADA doesn't tend to look at things like aftermarket stereos, rims & tires, LEDs, interior mods, ballast systems, etc.

Boats that have had a gain in popularity (MC 205s, CC Sports & 2001s, Supras, etc.) tend to come in much higher. So you will need to do some research to make sure it's a fair price in comparison to others in your market.

I just bought a 205 for over NADA. I would be the first to whine about it, but NADA doesn't seem to know anything about these boats. If it's in good condition, low hours, maintenance records, NADA doesn't take any of this into consideration. I used to think the sellers were wrong, but now looking at my "new" boat with low hours on an LT-1 and only one imperfection in the upholstery, NADA can't measure the smile on my face.

Vehicle prices usually don't go up with aftermarket add ons.

With the economy the way it is I don't see how some of these boats are selling...if they are.

NADA does not refer to actual sales on boats as it does on automobiles. It is a formula. Specialized lenders know this, mainline lenders without marine expertise may not.

Valuing older boats is tough. A bunch of the older models have had their values inflated because new boats have gotten so expensive. The condition of boats varies dramatically too. I've tried for years to figure out how to determine value on these things, and I haven't made any progress.

I am asking 2500 over NADA for my 10 year old boat (1999 Supra Launch) and so far I have had 3 buyers want to buy the boat in 3 weeks. In the end none of them were able to qualify for a loan for reasons other then the NADA value. The fact that 3 different people made me an offer over NADA in just 3 weeks tells me that NADA is incorrect and my price may in fact be too low. (at least on my boat). You better believe my asking price is going to go up in the spring (if it does not sell now). Value is determined by the market. If a buyer and a seller agree on a price, then that is the market price.

(Message edited by tre on September 23, 2009)

(Message edited by tre on September 23, 2009)

Nada is worthless other that trying to get a loan. Some boats are way high and some are way low. For example Nautiques aren't worth crap on NADA but Calabria's are so over valued it is insane. If you nada out a 2006 Cal Air Pro V it will probably be valued over 50k and possibly close to 60k. That is about 15-20k more than they actually sell for in the real world. There are certain ways to manipulate the NADA value in your favor if you are negotiating or trying to get a loan.

It would make sense that Calabria's may be overvalued. They are a relatively low volume boat. So a few high sales will cause the values to be skewed. I kind of disagree that the NADA is worthless other than purposes of loans. I'd say NADA is likely to be closer to market value than is the amount owed on a 20 year loan made on a 10 year old boat (which seems to be a favorite valuation method for sellers).

Well, I would say what someone owes on their boat is the worst method ever to value a boat. It has nothing to do with what it is actually worth other than what the seller is willing to sell their boat for. Remember, a boat is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, not what the seller thinks it is worth.

As a future seller, my sales price will be based off what I owe...I'll drop it untill it sells.

Brett, how would you manipulate NADA to be in a buyers favor to aquire a loan that has a selling price higher than NADA??

You can manipulate it some depending on how much your bank knows about boats. You just have to add every little thing the boat has.

EX:

FI
custom cover
bimini
dual batteries
depth sounder
4 blade prop
teak platform
trim tabs or trim plate(depending on if your boat has something like this)
trim gauge
tournament pylon
ballast
tower
racks
speakers
docking lights
tower lights

When I say adding stuff I mean everything. Maybe most people do this though anyway. I don't just add what was an option on the boat. Like an Xstar I would still add ballast, tower, racks, PP even though that stuff is all standard on that boat. What I have noticed though is that recently boat values on NADA have dropped like a rock. 6 months ago they were a lot higher on NADA. It seems NADA has caught up to actual values or gone below. There is always someone who thinks their boat is worth more that it is. Those people get to wait a year to sell their boat or never sell it. If you owe more than your boat is worth than I guess you are just screwed. It also depends on where you live. In general boats in the NW are worth 10% more than boats in CALI. They get used less up here and there aren't quite as many boats. In Cali you better be way ahead of what you think your boat is worth because boats aren't worth squat in Cali right now.

Sam you may have enough cash lying around or are not upside down in your boat so you may be fine. The problem is there are so many people that bought new boats 2, 3 or 4 years ago at a premium and now those boats are worth half of what they paid. A lot of those people financed the whole or close to the whole price of the boat. On a 50k boat they may be 10 or 15k upside down. Someone like this can put their boat up for sale for what they owe but there is no way they are getting anywhere close to it and might as well go drop the keys off at the bank.

Ben, I am not sure if I actually answered your question. I think both are wrong depending on the situation. You are probably correct about the older boats. When I have booked them on NADA I have noticed that NADA is quite a bit less than what I believe the boat to be worth in the market.

If you want to get a loan you may be able to fudge this a little. The Credit Union I bank with here in Washington doesn't even have someone look at the boat if it is under 25k. If you wanted to you could probably say there is a lot of stuff that isn't necessarily on the boat. I suppose this is fraud and not a wise choice in some respects though.

Whether it is right or wrong banks want you to put down a significant amount when buying a boat. They have been completely screwed by boat, home and car buyers in the last few years. Although I wouldn't blame that completely on the buyer. The bank has to have some fault for loaning people money when they shouldn't have.

I want to meet NADA and find out how he's calculating his prices.

I've been saving up for awhile. I don't want to spend over $13k on a boat. I know that's not a lot for a wakeboard boat, but I'm young and it's all I can afford. I plan to have at least half of the $13k saved up by next spring when I'm ready to buy. Hopefully I can find something decent. I just want to be on a boat like those guys in the "I'm on a boat" video...lol

Brett, thanks a lot...very informative posts

NADA seems to be geared more toward intercoastal boats. From the options I could pick their average retail value is 6k less than I have an offer for. Although I don't think I will sell yet as I can't afford the replacement quite yet.

nada doesn't always include the trailer does it? there's 2-4k+ right there

I've always felt I got a great deal if I bought it for around NADA....

on most boats it includes trailer (see the * )

NADA doesn't take into consideration condition, but neither do many lending and insurance companies. After market accessories like lights and stereo equipment matter very litte to the actual value from a lenders perspective.

Bottom line is a boat is worth what someone will pay for it. I personally would never pay more than a couple thousand over NADA and for most >500 hour average condition wakeboard boats, I feel NADA is pretty close most of the time. Sellers can ask what they want, but if you notice, those who are asking way over NADA are still asking a few months later.

Nick, I would say less then 15% of the wake boats include the trailer. Most of them you add it after the fact. Not that it matters much though because a 5 year old tandem tournament boat trailer adds about 1200-1500. Not a big difference. On the older stuff from the 80's and 90's might only add 250-500.

(Message edited by polarbill on September 23, 2009)

Benjamin save your money until you can write a check for the whole thing!

Calabria's are high because they don't sell enough to track real value.Instead of taking recent sales into account they just guestimate the depreciation unlike a nautique that sells a thousand times a year.Problem with nada on a nautique is that the info is one to two years old giving you sales figures from when the market crashed.Nada in my opinion is a total pile of gorilla poo thats good for nothing.

Cash is king for toys, that's how I play.

I paid under NADA last spring for an 11 y.o. V drive in great shape.

Nada is done based on dealer feedback as well as a formula for depreciation. The dealer feedback takes into consideration what boats are selling for all over the country. The problem with this is a boat in the northeast where you can boat only a few months a year will usually sell for less then a boat in the south, etc. Based on that nada gives multiple values from Trade up to High retail. On the consumer site you only get low retail and average retail so a boat in above average condition can warrant a much higher value and if you are trading your dealer may offer you a lower value. It is a guide as it does not cover all options, etc. For example it just has one price for "wakeboard tower" which does not work if you have a boat that you added a $3,000 - $4,000.00 factory tower or a less expensive aftermarket tower. For example I was pricing out a boat one day and hit tower on the option sheet. The boat had a monster tower, but according to nada it was worth $1600.00. Obviously the tower is not worth more then it was new. I also put tower speakers in when finding a value to sell my last boat and it added $800.00, which I felt was low for 4 pairs of Bullet hollowpoints and a amp so I raised my asking price based on that. Overall it is a good guide to get a idea on price in the current market, but you have to take into account the specifics of the boat you are looking for and base your value on that. I know another good source is abos. They give another reference and sometimes if you use both in conjunction you can get a very good estimate. I did this for my last boat and then added about $2,500 for condition and my extra equipment. I ended up selling the boat for what I was asking within a week.

When I was searching high and low for boats 9 months ago (believe me, I searched hard), the boats that were selling for above NADA were for sale forever and those that were lower or the same seemed to get sold.

Just an observation. The only conclusion I can draw is that it is a rarity to sell a later model boat for more than NADA.

I think older model boats (5+ years) are a different story because there is so much more variation in how well cared for the boat can be.

Many of these boats are ridiculously overpriced because that is what the owners owe.

I really wanted to buy a beautiful X-30. The guy assured me he could sell in the spring for the price he was asking (above NADA). Guess what? I see it in the local classifieds now 10 months later with a new ad. Still asking too much.

The variation is on OLD boats ie; 2001, 205, Sunsports, DD launches, super sports ect. NADA has no idea what old inboards are in high demand with wakeboarders, and thus the higher than NADA prices. Free market, the best price is what the buyer and seller are willing to agree on on that day.

Brett,

I'm very surprised by that number. Perhaps that number is more accurate in the northwest where you live. I spend a lot of time in Seattle and it wouldn't suprise me at all that people don't own trailers, but here in Illinois, the loading ramps are full every weekend with boats being trailered. Also, 95 percent of the used boats I've looked at have trailers, but they are all based in the midwest.

Your number may be correct, I'm not disputing it, but I'd say a very large portion of that 15 percent of trailered WB boats, are within purchasing distance of me.

I would argue that maybe 15% DON'T include the trailer. Even in Florida, at most 1 in 8 or so may not have the trailer.

i think maybe there was a misunderstanding on the trailer. what brett and i were saying is that nada doesn't always take the value of the trailer into consideration when calculating it's prices. it didn't for mine. not that only 15% of boat sales include the trailer. it's early though, maybe i'm misunderstanding.

Ahh. No NADA does not do trailers, and especially account for nice ones

Blue book – NADA, this is only good for new boats somewhat, If you finance your boat, the bank needs something to go by, if they don’t, then what do they base a value of your purchase on, selling a boat is a different story, you can ask whatever you thinks it’s worth, but in reality it’s all about what the market value is at the time of selling your item….IMO.

I would think with the recession and boats being a luxury item they would be a whole lot closer to NADA value than what they are

NADA dropped used boat prices a TON because of the economy. I think NADA overdid it a bit which is why the actual prices are a bit higher.