Weekend from bad to worse

So I get to Don Pedro yesterday (Friday 24th) and was put into wrong camp site. It was too short for my truck and boat. I finely get to another spot and start setting up. Four other friends arrive for the weekend to wakeboard Some came from a far too. We launch my 2009 Sanger V215 with like 10 hours on it and get 2 people through sets and my boat takes a crap. About every 2 minutes it would die and I’d have to start it back up. If I tried to go fast it would also die. Speedo stopped working and GPS stopped. We limp the boat back to dock and as you see I am now home. I am livid! Disappointed with a new boat! Has anyone ever had that problem?

HAHAHA good one! Stop lying story like that can't be true. Na man sorry to hear it but I have no clue what it could be. Do you have Mercruiser smart tow?

Sorry to hear. At least you got your warranty being it's a new boat. Just out of curiousity, when was the last time you ran it before this trip? I think I caught a glimpse of your boat on another thread....you have the wetsounds setup, right?

Thats pretty strange, was the temp getting up and causing the computer to shut it down? I don't even know if black scorps have a limp mode to go into, maybe your fuel pump took a dump, I know on my dad's old carbed chevy BB when the fuel filter was super clogged it would do the same thing, (shut off for no reason, then start up and run fine til the bowls were empty on the carb then shut off again, but idled fine) but you have fuel injection, maybe you popped a fuse or something... that sucks let us know what the dealer says, what is the GPS on your boat for is that a version of PP?

and welcome to being a boat owner jason, they tend to leave that part out of it when you sign those papers.

my guess is an electrical/computer type issue or like scott said maybe a fuel filter. good luck bro.

The boat has smart tow, the gauge does everything, yeah it is GPS based. The only difference from taking it out last time about 2 weeks ago was that I had a transducer installed to use the depth part of the smartcraft gauge. but like I said I got about 1.5 hours on it before it acted up. I will let you guys know what the outcome is. It does have the Wetsounds.
I almost drove it off a cliff..was so PO'ed

Hate N Pain do you have that new smartcraft gauge?

No, it just sounded like that could have something to do with it as your gauge and GPS were going out and I could see that screwing up the throttle control and run ability.

Hmmm, interesting question...I'm buying a new boat with Smart Tow and now I'm wondering if there's a way to bypass it if you run into a similar problem? Probably not since it's all in one and uses the ECM. I guess you could bypass a PP...

Not trying to bust on you, but keep please keep this in mind next time.

"Four other friends arrive for the weekend"

I would have hung out with my friends and camped for the weekend. So what if a couple of things went wrong. You were at a beautiful lake with good friends. Drink some beer and go for a swim Hook up with someone else and do a little riding. I have pulled many people when their boats were not usable. The good times are what you make of them. FWIW I towed my boat to Don Pedro and left it on the trailer the entire weekend, because the steering cable froze.

If my boat breaks down on a camping trip I'm out...

x2 Patrick unless my camping neighbor has a sacked out boat and invites us to ride.

I didnt just leave, everyone else did so I just packed up myself.

Sounds like a bad earth to the ECM or smart craft module to me. Don't worry it should be an easy fix.

Awesome quote Brock!

Jason, just got back from Liquid Playground/San Jose Boat Center. I went by to pick up a copy of Rewritten. Anyway dude, saw your boat and it's even nicer in person. FWIW, there'll be plenty more good times to be had out at the lake. Pop in a good Wake DVD and crack open a beer...cheers...

Tony

Jason - Sorry about your boat. If you get up to Tulloch I am her all week, I'll give you a pull.

T

(Message edited by trevorg7 on July 26, 2009)

sounds similar to my problem when we first got our boat. After they replaced almost everything finally found air pockets in the fuel rail. No problems since (275hrs).

Still no answers, Was told boat was running fine, but was also told with these new DTS engines the fuel line have been falling apart and clogging fuel filter...I just dont get why Sanger did this and not fix problem...like a recall.
Called Sanger and wow, at this time I regret this dicission..Sanger was just passing the buck to something else

What, are they not planning on covering it under warranty?

Jason, I called you yesterday to make sure you knew I was going to follow up on your issue. The boat was addressed today and nothing unusual was found with fuel system or supply. We did find an after market stereo was installed and a dual battery without isolator. This new DTS motor needs a full battery and when the motor battery is low on voltage, it may cause a problem with the computer. I have talked to the stereo shop and service shop to make sure things are checked out completly and that the boat is taken to the lake for water test before returning it to you. We want to make sure that you don't have another bad weekend at the lake. I also followed up with you today to make sure you knew I was still working on your boat. Sorry for the inconvienence but I hope you know we are always conserned about our customers. Thanks, Scott

Scott,

Nobody takes care their customers like you!!!!

Scott, when you called yesterday you went into telling me that it is not Sangers issue it s the engine. After talking a few minutes I understand your busy you had to go. Today it was to ask me about my post on WW.
So now my boat is at the shop and your telling me nothing is wrong with it. I was also told that the diagnostic cant be done because the computers dont work with the new wiring harness. Maybe it might be my stereo system. So does my boat need an isolator?

jason, you have got to settle down a bit and just chill. your boat is in great hands, im assuming its at kal kustoms with scott now? scott is stand up and willing to go more than the extra mile for all of his customers. just curious as to why this was not handled on a dealer level though? i had multiple dealer issues when i had my sanger that carried on and on, one call to scott and problem was solved.

as much as we want to share our frustrations on here, alot of people read this site and your name can get out there. think about how many boats are made by sanger each year, its not difficult to put a name with a boat for these guys. its summer and its busy for these guys. give them a break.

as for, " its a brand new boat, bla bla" dude, welcome to being a boat owner. thats why you buy a sanger or a mc, mali, etc.. because it will get fixed.

my boats at the dealer getting warranty work right now. i got a thread on ww about the problem just like you. im frustrated, yes. but i know my boat is in good hands. the dealer cant just miricle it over night.

my biggest pice of advice to you brotha is boats are not cars, they are not a dime a dozen. they are hand built and human error will occur. just chill, take it with a smile and know your boat is in good hands. you bought a great boat, one of the best and your obviously in great hands now. good luck and its all good bro.

Jason,
listen to Bryan, he is giving you good info, advice that 99% of us here on wakeworld would give.

Sucks about your trip getting ruined, I'd probably go home too. Is the first new boat you've bought?

Brand new boats always have quirks in the first few hours. There is a reason there is a break in period of 10-20 hours. If the boat has been sitting for awhile at the dealer, things can come loose easier once it gets running around on the water, hence the reason for the immediate 20 hour service. It honestly doesn't sound like it's a major issue, (besides the obvious inconvenience it caused you). I have friends with boats by EVERY manufacturer that have had issues in the first 20 hours. They will get it taken care of and your boat should be fine from here on out with proper love.

Jason you are in good hands all the way....

You think you have it bad, Bryan has some great stories he could tell you... "offline" that would make you feel much better about your situation.

Jason, it sounds like the problem doesn't exist with the boat at all. It sounds like it is because of the incompetence of either you or the stereo shop that installed your stereo by not separating the 2 batteries. Two batteries in parallel is just like 1 battery. It will just have a higher reserve capacity. The problem is if you have a huge stereo that is pulling a bunch of amps your alternator is not going to be able to keep up with the draw. Your battery voltage will keep getting lower and lower. Low voltage will shorten the life of you alternator because it is constantly working at max potential, the starter, CPU, lights and pretty much anything electrical in your boat. It sounds like the computer on the engine needs to see a certain voltage or it will shutoff to protect it from further damage. I would not chalk that up to a problem that has anything to do with Sanger or Mercruiser. It should be very encouraging for you to see Scott and Sanger step up though and do their best to help you.

Either way you need to separate the 2 batteries. There are a few different products out there that work good. I would skip a Perko style selector switch and go with something that is automatic so you don't have to worry about switching anything manually. Sure Power makes a good combiner/separator, I think Blue Sea has a pretty good system as well. You may want to get a better or more batteries on your stereo bank side as well so you have longer play time. Something else I would seriously consider is a dual bank charger to hook up the batteries to every night or at least on a regular basis. Your batteries will last longer as well as all electronics on your boat.

Brett very strong statement without knowing the facts. Learn them and educate your self. I "the stereo shop" and KK "the distributor" as well as Mercrusier "the maker of the motor" are working on resolving this. Rest assured it goes much deeper then a lack of battery power or bad workmanship. It is a new motor and has some things to work out still.

This is not an isolated event, this has been see on another boat with just a basic deck and 4 speakers installed by the factory.

I'm not getting into a pissing match, I have facts that can not be shared until the issue is resolved with all parties involved.

Like it was stated before this happens when new products are introduced into an existing environment.

One key example of a similar (not the same) issue. When Malibu introduced the Black Box radio customers quickly notices noises coming from the system when amps were added. Some claimed installer, some said malibu, others said equipment brand. Now regardless of any of the variables above (installer, product company) you would get mixed results from boat boat. The design company working on the black box project with Malibu has made changes to correct most, not all, of these problems.

Point - Not the installers fault, not malibu's fault, not the fault of the product. The problem lies in the continual evolution of options in the marine industry. New variables are introduced to each of us every year. We all address them and move on to the next.



(Message edited by johnny_jr on July 29, 2009)

All, thanks for all the input on this issue, I didn't post to mud sling. Am I a frustrated new boat owner...yes. Every penny at this moment counts for me and when I take son boating and that doesn't happen its worse. I bought my boat where I bought it because of all the research I did and the men that work there. I had an upgraded radio installed by LT(Johnny) because I was referred there. They did a great job! Very professional and great customer service. Could have something been hooked up different, sure. I understand that the knowledge on this new engine is not widely spread. I hope it does get fixed soon and my doubts about buying a boat go away.

Bryan, I get what your saying. I wish I could have went out riding on Monday. If this issue is resolved for this weekend, you interested in going Saturday? Johnny too? I did just pick up my storage at Orwood..

Jason, glad to see you got the spot at Orwood, I'll be rid'n Friday is your down and Bryan your welcome too.

What time on Friday?

UPDATE, Well very long story short, got boat back friday and Saturday morning got the Delta out at Vics and about an hour into it BAM same thing. I was the 2009 Sanger getting towed all the way back to Orwood.
Bought boat in June I have put 9 hours on it.

Urggg. That's a bummer

Any way you could take the boat out and isolate the stereo completely from it? maybe unhook the blue wires that turn on the amps and just run the deck and stock cabin speaks?? Then at least you could use your boat, and know if the stereo is drawing down your power enough to make the ecm go screwy.....sucks man I feel your pain, I added MSD ignition to an old mustang and had similar nightmarish electrical demons because of a voltage regulator I was told to put in there, super frustrating....hang in there though, sounds like Sanger, the dealer, and the stereo shop are all doing what they can to resolve your problem and not hanging you out to dry

might just be a lemon, witch means a new boat in your future. same problem 3x in a row means a lemon i think. you might want to look into it.

Pull the fuse on the radio and unhook the extra battery that was added. Ride for a couple hours and you'll figure out if that's your problem. You'll be without a radio, but it might be more fun than your having currently.

Jason,
this time as they work on your boat insist on them letting you use a demo boat until yours is fixed. I would probably not feel confortable being on the water in the water with my kids and not know if the boat is going to sheet itself. Have them fix it and run it for like 8 hours straight to ensure its fixed this time, and also they should be more than willing to pay for your first 20 hour service and 50 hour service because of the inconvience (using a nice word)this has caused you. Like I said with my boat and the air in the fuel rail issue it took them over 3 weeks, and 2 times they gave it back to me only to do it again. Each time I did get a demo boat to take the family out in and the service was also taken care of at the 20 and 50 hour mark.

Ok so last week came back from the lake and boat went to shop. There was a rep to hook computers to boat, what they think is that battery for starting got to low. Well they insisted that because of my radio it did that. So LT(thanks for all the help) put a very intense isolator on my boat. I was told that if it did it again that it would not have been my radio. Now I am not on this site to b@tch, I am just trying to find out what is right. All I am told is that this is the boat world, this is how it works. So the Sanger rep said if it happens when I go out on Saturday he would come tow me. Well it happened again and I called the rep and he came out. Now my boat is in his hands. Here are my issues:
I am out money from camping trip
I am out my time on a new boat
I have scratches and dirty carpet on my new boat from workers in and out of boat (rep said would fix)
I had to pay to get that isolator on boat and it wasn’t even the problem
Out the gas I have been using.
I still don’t even have my 20 hour service done, so when I get 10 more hours boat will be gone again. It looks like most of those hours will be from trying to work on it.
NO ONE has offered me any compensation, a shirt, tank of gas?
Bottom line is the name on the side of my boat should I think step up and take care of a new boat costumer more than what has been done, without legal actions. Last year I have never heard of Sanger, that’s who I chose after almost a year of research and hear I am losing sleep, time and money(soldiers don’t make much) because of this debacle.

i had this exact situation happen when i buy my boat (nautique) from the first day the engine would just cut out. took it to a few places and no-one knew what was going on. anyway 3 months later some marine mechanic traced it to a bad earth. but they had to replace the main wiring harness on the engine. that was 4 years ago. wasnt happy when it happen, but im glad i didnt ditch the boat as its been fantastic since. give the boat a chance, it will reward you x100

i had this exact situation happen when i buy my boat (nautique) from the first day the engine would just cut out. took it to a few places and no-one knew what was going on. anyway 3 months later some marine mechanic traced it to a bad earth. but they had to replace the main wiring harness on the engine. that was 4 years ago. wasnt happy when it happen, but im glad i didnt ditch the boat as its been fantastic since. give the boat a chance, it will reward you x100

n_starla, thanks I get what you are saying. I am just living in the now, I may get years of pleasure out of it, but now my summer is slipping away. This also boils down to me getting my son(7) every other week and he calls me to see if boat is fixed, I say no then he'll ask if I'm getting a new one. WTF I have new one. I bought the boat for him and I to create memories.

Kenny, that was cool of them to just help you like that, was that in Wa?

update

Jason,
When my 2006 Supra Launch 21V was new and only had 10hrs on it I pulled it 3 hrs to a lake for Memorial Day weekend. I had run it the nite before and it ran flawlessly. Got it to the lake had to push off trailer due to water level and went to put it in gear and CLUNK the engine died...long story short had a bolt head shear off in the Vdrive. I like you bought my boat to make memories with my family and friends. That weekend is a distant memory and pales in comparison to all the fantastic memories that have been made in the past 3 yrs. Was I PO'd at the time? YES I WAS. Now I don't even think about it.

maybe the boat Gods are just angry with you for not updating your profile picture with a picture of your new boat

Well today, the mercury rep put computers back on boat, and got no bad readings. I was told a possibility that is was operator error..wow. They are going to take boat out today and run it to see if will recreate the problem.
TPyle, I wish I had a known problem and not something that may or may not happen. Hell I'm not sure what to even do?

get on the boat with them - or get someone on the boat with you so both parties are present when it dies on you.
feel your pain bro - itll get resloved and youll be set in no time. Just gotta get the kinks worked out - weve all gone through it.

Operator error, WTF

Miguel, I would like to go but work gets in way thanks for words of encouragement.

thats what I said WTF, I wish I could get out of this boat!

Flaky Kill switch???
Easy thing to bypass and of course would not show up in the ECM as an error code

Nope I bought my Sanger in Sacramento when I was stationed there. The dealorship was small, maybe not even there anymore. But the service I recieved was unbelievable! I never requested that they do what they did, they were more concerened with keeping me and the fam happy and on the water. Would recommend keeping Scott P. informed because he is all about customer service and if the dealorship is not up to par with Sanger's standard he needs to know.

Operator error! I would have blasted him!

Kenny, that is awesome that they took care of you. I dont know what Sangers standard is, I know that I'm not getting that kind of service. I found out that they are taking my boat out tomorrow with Scott and merc guy, I guess shame on me for not doing more research.

I don't think lack of research is a contributing factor to your situation, its pretty unusual for a Sanger to have these types of issues, you could have researched 100% and you would not have found this possibility. I know it is frustrating but a least they are working to resolve the issue.

ya should have did more research cause then you would have found a brand that builds boat by hand involving 1000's of parts thats have motors with thousands of parts that never break or have issues....

take a deep breath man and let people who are trying to help you help you.

pissing people off doesnt help

When I said research I mean the boat industry how it works what happens if something goes wrong, things like that. Not a specific boat maker.

Jason, if Scott is riding your boat, then don't even worry. If the dealorship has not even mentioned about compensating you then I would bring it up in front/with Scott. I would ask because of the issue's, lost fam time etc with a brand new boat, you should get the 20 & 50 hour service free/paid for. you should also get a demo boat for every weekend you are with out yours. If you end up not having your boat for about a month you could instead ask for them to make the first payment since you never got to really use your boat.

Sanger's standard was a major factor in our decision is purchasing ours 215. They are all about keeping you happing and making sure you feel more than just a paying customer. I have had a few minor thing come up that need attention and they quickly resovled them, most of the time paying for the part and shipping. Every boat company will produce a boat that has what I call "gremlins". Unfortunetly you got have one as with I did. Sanger has repeat customers for a reason.

By the way what dealorship did you purchase from?

Where I bought mine is like bank repos..new but taken from closed stores. The same person owns Tracy center and when I called them they said dont take my boat there, take it back where you bought it. In my mind its the same dealership, but this is where I am finding out about the boat industry. Kenny it sounds like your place was the exception. I have talked to Scott for a long time because I was concerned about how F'ed up my new boat is getting in this process ie, stained carpet, huge scratches on boat...

Tracy Marine, I have heard good things about them but never dealt with them myself.

I would definitely talk with scott about the concerns/issues with the carpet, scrathes, etc. Under no circumstance is that acceptable. Mechanics should be treating your boat no different than a BMW, a 50k boat or car no difference! Of course I am not part of the discussions you are having with Scott, but having talked with him while stationed in Wa, he went above and beyond to help me a few times. He made me feel like he was my personal rep for our boat. Trust in him, even tho it may be hard right now. Just make sure you are clear about how you feel and your expectations.

If this makes you feel any better, I work on 50 million aircraft that are new from the factory and they have gremlins that can drive you crazy! When we get settled in, you and your boy are welcome to ride with me and my family, I just hope its not because you are having issue's still.

Jason, if this was not an engine problem, it would have been solved yesterday by Sanger. I imagine Scott has his hands tied because he has to go through merc to get things done; he can't do things directly. Engine issues in the boat world are more or less solely the manufacturer and the dealer issues, not the boat builder.

I would try to stay involved without stepping on toes. For example, when they do the lake test, they should be starting and stopping the boat as if they were towing someone. Starting a motor places a large draw on the electrical system, so running the boat in the shop for 30 minutes straight versus every 10 minutes or so is going to yield different results in voltage. I don't know if they are doing this or not, but I would have taken the sound system out of the loop first thing. I know the guys at LT are top notch, but it's one thing that you could cross off the list. Any computer controlled engine, which is about everything these days, are nightmares when it comes to electrical issues.

You're lucky to have Scott helping you. He truly gets things done.

"If my boat breaks down on a camping trip I'm out..." Me too!

Weird. We found another guy on the delta this wekend that had the same problem with his new sanger 215.

Kenny, yes it was Tracy Marine. When I was coming home from Don P. I figured they own the place where I bought my boat and instead hauling all the way to San Jose, I would be passing Tracy and they could help me out. Not the case. Now let me get something straight, this is a forum, to inform people. As a very new person to boat world if I would have know that the boat industry is not like car or motorcycle industry (what I was told when my issue happened) I would have asked questions about things like this. Kenny it sounds like you had a very good dealership. I get lots of “sorrys”. I get that new things break down; it’s about how it’s handled after that. I know that my boat is in the hands of Scott and that things are being looked at. I am coming up on my third weekend without the boat and two weeks. We all know how much boats costs, more than the average car, and if I bought a new average car, and it had issues I would not be walking around. That is the knowledge I wish I had prior. If this helps that one person that is new like me, to ask those kind of questions then good. Like you said my boat should be treated like a BMW. LOL…when I saw it last week, it looked more like a 1982 civic. BTW thanks for the offer, you are welcome on mine.
Eric, they did isolate my radio from the boat, that’s what went on last week, Johnny and Danny have been great through this process their customer service is way far and beyond what is the norm.

Hmmm... Maybe Merc sent out a bad batch of ecu's?

CIE, are you sure that was not me? I broke down I think right by a C.I.E. boat. at Vics

New boat issues are not fun. I feel for you and for Scott P. Every manufacturer goes through them. Name a company and I can tell you a story or ten.

But you are right, it is how the dealership that sold it to you handles it.

(Message edited by alans on August 04, 2009)

That is what I believe.

UPDATE, Scott and merc guy were on boat after running it for about hour and half, it just died on them. They are going to change the wiring harness along with a few other electrical things.

I feel like folks are being a little hard on Jason. I have a new boat that has performed flawlessly since I got it... now 40 hours later. Do I consider myself lucky? No! That's what I expect. It's what anybody should expect when you make a luxury purchase of $50k.

Good customer service is commendable, but I think Jason deserves more than just good customer service here.

This experience that Jason is going through will shape his next purchase. I would venture to guess it will take more than apologies to fix the bad taste in his mouth. And I doubt this is the last boat he'll ever buy.

So I don't know if it's the dealer or the manufacturer, but somebody needs to do damage control and fast! Get this guy a demo boat ASAP and fix his new boat NOW. Having a brand new boat tied up without a demo right in the middle of the summer just isn't acceptable.... boat industry or not.

It must have been user error!! hahahahahaha

Seriously, Sanger builds a great boat, hopefully now they will figure it out and you and your son can get out on the water and enjoy your new toy!!

I agree with you ixfe, middle of summer and I have nothing, not sure how the demo boat would work but no one has offered. I know people are trying to get my boat fixed, but here I am trying to get a ride for me this week and one for son and I this weekend. Being new to boating and area doesnt help. Bitter!

Jason- wow, sorry this is still going on. Definitely not "normal" new boat issues.

Sounds like a similar problem we had with our previous boat (not a Sanger). It would just randomly die on us, and then run perfectly fine in the shop. The replaced several parts one by one and the problem still continued, and we kept having to get towed in. Finally it happened to the guys during a test drive and they found out it was a simple sensor to the electronic system or fuel gauge or something like that. Cost us like $100 in the end even after weeks of being in and out of the shop.

Don't know if it is the same thing going on with your boat but wanted to throw it out there since it sounds all too familiar to me. Sorry about your experiences with your first new boat, hope it gets resolved asap.

BTW...We use Tracy Marine and DG service department for our Sanger. They have been really good to us.

I bought a repo also, just for that fact I didn't expect the level of service as if I was paying a price close to what they would normally sell for. I don't think I'd expect a demo if my boat did break. I don't have a dealer in my area, so that isn't an option anyways. The rediculous amount of money I saved buying the boat was worth the risk. Luckily for me after 55 hours the only thing wrong is disconected cooler drain. Sounds like you are getting pretty good service, esp cause you prob got a steal on the boat. Crap happens, and it'll get fixed.

Jason, ask them for the things we discussed.

Has it been mentioned that Scott from Sanger went out to tow him in. Lots of hoops are being jumped thru for this guy.

Yes Scott did break up his weekend day to come out and tow me, that was customer service on his part. He is for sure trying to get my boat back to me. I am grateful for this help. What I am not grateful for is that I am out time and money. People are going in and out of my boat(due to this problem) and in my mind are not treating it like it is new and it should come back to customer as such

^^^ How is that being lost in all of this. It sounds like to me they are doing everything they can to get Jason back on the water asap. If the dealer is failing you Sanger sure as hell isn't. I wouldn't expect a demo boat, it'd be nice but not an expectation.

Jason, A chill pill might work well for you. Sanger is working on it at a high level (Scott). People are hearing you and on to the problem. Why the whine? It'll get fixed... Patience my man. Stuff just happens in life (especially on boats!)- it's usually not helpful to take it all personally.

Jason doesn't seem to be complaining too badly more like just venting to guys online that should understand what its like to buy a new boat in the middle of summer then not be able to use it. Let alone have it stop on him more than once and have to be towed in. I'm sure everyone is doing all they can to remedy the situation it just sucks he missing a good chunk of the season. I know we live in Ca but for most of us we limit our season to hot weather. Hang in there bro!

Hey Rich thanks, that is correct kinda just venting and allowing other new boaters more knowledge. Yes I do take it personal when a very costly boat gets dinged up not by me, and due to this issue. Scott is working the boat and he also said he would hook up my 20 hour service when I need it. I have for sure learned a lot about the boat industry.