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Old     (PtownNate)      Join Date: Aug 2019       01-11-2020, 6:16 PM Reply   
Hi, Iím planning to buy my first boat within the year. Would like to stay under $40k. Iím 34yo with 3 kids (2,4,6). I went wake boarding a lot as a teen and in my 20ís, but not since having kids. I want them to grow up with the same great boating memories I had. Iíve never surfed, however Iím sure itís going to be a big part of my boating experience as it is right up my alley. I have not ruled any boats out, after a lot of research, the versatility and price of the Sanger v215 seem most appealing. Iím also interested in a 2017+ Yamaha 212X due to the interior layout and swim deck for the kids. (Also 2017, WakeBoost became available). I realize it wonít surf as well, but my goal (now at least) is to be comfortable going ropeless and carve up and down the wave. Iím 6í4Ē 200#, not exactly a nimble dude built to shred. Plus, i plan to get fatter and less athletic.
Spending $40k on a 10+ year old boat is proving to be a hard pill to swallow, which is where the Yamaha came more into play.
Iím not big on bells / whistles and latest tech. I want reliable, sturdy, built to last. I live in So Cal, I plan to use mostly at the Parker strip, havasu, needles, nacimiento, with some delta trips thrown in. The yamaha is also appealing as the river is shallow in places and may ease some tension as I get reacquainted with the water.
Iíd appreciate any constructive or non-constructive advice/criticism.
Thanks
Old     (tripsw)      Join Date: May 2006       01-12-2020, 3:47 PM Reply   
"Plus, i plan to get fatter and less athletic." Now that's something you don't hear too often!

I never had a good experience in or behind any jetboat. Noisy, terrible holeshot, terrible fuel consumption, tons of spray/foam, bitch to drive, etc etc. Don't know that specific newer Yamaha model though.
So it's clear what I'd choose from these 2. But would also like to mention you can find a Nautique 236 (=230) for that kind of money.
Old     (PtownNate)      Join Date: Aug 2019       01-12-2020, 4:21 PM Reply   
Thank you for the advice and i’ll check those out.
Old     (bstroop)      Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Athens, Alabama       01-13-2020, 1:37 AM Reply   
While I was in between boats I considered a few Yamahas for an all around family application. I did like the layout and it was pretty roomy for its size. The upside of the 212X is that it has the twin 1.8L engines so it will have a great power to weight ratio and considerable top speed. Although they are built to run at high rpms I never felt comfortable enough with the fact that they are constantly revving that high LOL.

I thought it was a cool family runabout, but overpriced for what you get in comparison to a similar year wake boat. I don't need to go 50mph with the engines screaming at 7500rpms. I looked long and hard at the Yamaha.....and I'd take the Sanger every time.
Old     (bstroop)      Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Athens, Alabama       01-13-2020, 2:15 AM Reply   
Edit: not a similar year wake boat......a well cared for older wake boat.
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       01-13-2020, 7:27 AM Reply   
Sanger all day every day
Old     (hal2814)      Join Date: Feb 2006       01-13-2020, 12:44 PM Reply   
I looked at the V215 a couple of years back because I heard the wakeboard wake is the truth. I really like it but passed on it, primarily because the freeboard felt very low, especially for surfing. I personally ended up bumping my budget a little and getting a 230.

I can’t comment about the 212X. I can’t imagine it would outperform the V215 for anything watersports-related.
Old     (83Starsnstripes)      Join Date: Jul 2013       01-14-2020, 5:38 AM Reply   
I've got a 2017 Sanger 215 for sale if you are interested.

https://www.onlyinboards.com/2017-Sa...on-104064.aspx
Old     (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       01-15-2020, 7:43 AM Reply   
If you think you are really going to get back in to the watersports then I'd definitely suggest going with the boat that is meant to do that better which would be the Sanger or others in a vdrive. Some of the older Tige 22ve/24ve would fit in to that budget as well and can be great wave machines as well as perform well for wakeboarding.
Old     (PtownNate)      Join Date: Aug 2019       01-15-2020, 8:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 83Starsnstripes View Post
I've got a 2017 Sanger 215 for sale if you are interested.

https://www.onlyinboards.com/2017-Sa...on-104064.aspx
Why are you selling your boat?
Old     (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       01-15-2020, 10:37 AM Reply   
This is a damn loaded boat: https://www.facebook.com/groups/150526335062185/
Attached Images
 
Old     (mfenton)      Join Date: May 2009       01-15-2020, 11:16 AM Reply   
If you want to stay under 40k look at a 07-08 SAN 210,220,230 Great boats that will throw very nice waves and will still have some resale value. Can't go wrong with a nautique.
Old     (chilidog)      Join Date: Dec 2007       01-17-2020, 12:38 PM Reply   
I had a sanger v215 for 8 seasons. Bullet proof boat but the carpet and possibly floor was deteriorating, however at 10 years old stuff will wear out. Wakeboard wake was killer with 1K in lead, I didn't have any factory ballast. Surf wake with only 1K was not great, but we aren't into surfing to care. We sold it and upgraded and there are times I wish I would have stayed with old faithful.

Having spent some time recently on a friends Yamaha I will say they will cover alot of distance much faster than a sanger, cruising at 40 instead of 30, they have WAY more freeboard for idling through wakesurf wakes etc that would swamp a sanger with a big crew and/or ballast until you really get used to how to drive the sanger through such wakes.

Downsides as mentioned above they are pretty loud from the spray and dual 4 cylinders screaming at 6000rpm when cruising, interior space is pretty limited compared to the sanger. Rear seating area isnt all its cracked up to be on the transom.

Id say if the boat will be for mainly a family or two getting on the water seeing the sights covering alot of water on those big lakes or rivers down south, not much emphasis on core riding then the yamaha may work. If you are more about getting on the water to ride boards then sanger all the way. No comparison for the two wakes. Also the sanger will hold its value if kept up. Yamaha not sure since they are kind of niche boats.
Old     (SoulSurfer)      Join Date: Oct 2016       01-19-2020, 12:55 PM Reply   
I owned a 2011 Yamaha SX210 for 5 years and now have a 16 MB f22 that I've owned since new. Our Yamaha was 100% reliable, super easy to maintain, and all around a good family runabout. That said, I won't be going back to jet drive after owning the v-drive. The watersports performance simply can't be compared. Overall handling is easier with the v-drive as well. Again, our Yamaha was a good boat and served us well but if water sports beyond tubing are part of the equation, I believe you're better off with the Sanger.
Old     (PtownNate)      Join Date: Aug 2019       01-19-2020, 5:35 PM Reply   
Thanks for the input! I know what Iíd prefer, but Iíve got 3 littles and a wife to consider. The lower freeboard on the Sanger seems like it might take some getting used to, as Havasu can get rough in a hurry and I donít want to get sunk. I donít plan to go there a lot, but itís close(ish)...Itís been mentioned a lot on this site, guys trading their V215s for boats that sit higher out of the water. Maybe a bit more free board would be preferred.
I went to the boat show recently, mainly to get a feel for the interior size differences from 21í - 23ís, it was pretty awesome, absurdly expensive boats, but I guess thatís the way it is.
I think Iíve talked myself out of the Yamaha, your info has helped.
I researched some on the Tige 22veís also, that seems like another good option among others you guys have mentioned.

Maybe Iíll put the boat on hold for a year to get the budget up to 50k and see what that gets me, perhaps the market will crash and flood the used boat scene.
Old     (SoulSurfer)      Join Date: Oct 2016       01-20-2020, 12:56 PM Reply   
I know this is probably sacrilege here, but lots and lots of people have a great time on the water in stern drive boats. You could certainly find a nice one of those with plenty of room for a family, a nice deep V and good freeboard to deal with the Havasu chop (I know of what you speak) and good enough wake performance to have fun wakebording and such. Will the watersports performance be the same as a dedicated tow boat? No. Will you still have fun? I bet so!
Old     (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       01-21-2020, 4:39 AM Reply   
^Very true. I grew up using an outboard for wakeboarding. Only downside is surfing is definitely not an option with an I/O or stern drive. Like it or hate it's fun for all ages.
Old     (bstroop)      Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Athens, Alabama       01-21-2020, 7:43 AM Reply   
When new boat prices keep going up the boat you may be looking at this year for 40K will have more hours on it and work 50K LOL.

(Joking......mostly)
Old     (SoulSurfer)      Join Date: Oct 2016       01-21-2020, 12:51 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcrider View Post
^Very true. I grew up using an outboard for wakeboarding. Only downside is surfing is definitely not an option with an I/O or stern drive. Like it or hate it's fun for all ages.
I hear that. We love surfing. That's the primary reason we sold our Yamaha and bought our MB. If you want to surf, you're going to want to save for a v-drive. The Yamaha jets can be pressed into service for surfing with some modificaations, but based on all that I've seen - it's a stretch and a hassle. Most of the folks I've read posts from who have put in the money and effort to make their Yamahas surfable are pleased to have a decent looking wave that they can ride ropeless. I see very little evidence that many people have gotten truly powerful "waves" that support a long pocket and advancing through learning some tricks. At this point, they really can't compare to a purpose-built boat.
Old     (PtownNate)      Join Date: Aug 2019       01-22-2020, 3:09 AM Reply   
I really think surfing is in my future. I havenít given much thought to a stern drive. Back to the freeboard on the Sanger 215. Iím cautious, and hopefully I can learn the tricks to
navigating rough water and my own wake. Do you all think the big lakes down south (havasu) would be out right dangerous for a 215?
Iíve spent most my time driving a 2003 supreme v220, thatís really my only driving experience.
Old     (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       01-22-2020, 5:00 AM Reply   
I'd suspect an 03 Supreme and the Sanger probably sit about the same height off the water.
Old     (tre)      Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: WI       01-22-2020, 7:47 AM Reply   
I don't think you are going to want a Sanger 215 on a busy lake. Ultimately, you will not be able to stop or go slow. When you stop, the large waves will go over the bow. For example, will you ever stop to swim off the boat? When you do, large wave can go over the bow. Do you ever putt around the lake with friends? When you do large waves will go over the bow if you don't speed up to get the bow out of the water.
Old     (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       01-22-2020, 8:02 AM Reply   
^ Based on his budget most older vdrvies are going to sit lower in the water anyway. It's only been the last few years that they have gotten deeper. Even my 09 VE sits low and can't take much rough water.
Old     (PtownNate)      Join Date: Aug 2019       01-22-2020, 9:41 AM Reply   
Thatís surprising about the VE, I looked at one a few months ago and it looks a lot deeper on the trailer at least. I suppose it would something Iíd need to feel out and get used to. Fortunately I donít plan to be on big water on busy weekends and I guess if a monsoon hits, Iíll just pray.
I appreciate all the advice. It seems I canít go wrong if I stay with a V-drive, more a matter of personal preference on manufacturer and how much money I want to part with.
Old     (tre)      Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: WI       01-22-2020, 1:08 PM Reply   
100% stay with the V-drive. That is the easy part of your decision.
Old     (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       01-22-2020, 7:08 PM Reply   
I've had my 215 since 2006. The biggest waves I've driven in through in storms with my family on board were about 55mph winds with 5 foot waves. You have to drive correctly in that weather but the boat handled it very well and was much better than a 20' Glastron that was out it it too. This was on Shuswap Lake where mountain storms come up in a 5 minute timeframe. I would prefer to be in my Sanger than any other wakeboard boat in bad weather. I've taken my teenage daughter out foiling in 2' waves. We had a lot of fun and no one in the boat had any fears. It is a vastly better boat for rough water than any Tige from around 2006. Centurion Avalanche from that time frame is a good rough water hull also.
The newer bathtub boats do have high freeboard so can be better for surfing but you can drop a Sanger 215 in the water further with less weight than you can some newer bigger boats and get a good surf wave.
The Yamaha has been one of the best selling boats in that size range for many years so it obviously has many good features. There are a couple differences that we prefer with a wake boat for our family. First is that the swim deck is right at the water. Very reassuring for young kids and comfortable for me and my wife to climb into the boat. The cruising economy is better in the wake boat so it's a bit cheaper to run at 25-30 mph. Tow sports and tubing are so easy in the wake boat that you will be surprised.

Here are a couple pieces of solid advice without 'owner bias':
Sit in the boats you are interested in with your family. The feel different, and make you feel different when you are in them. How do people move around, and how do the seats fee.?
Demo the boats if you can. The differences are quickly apparent. How do they feel crossing wakes? Do the seat cushions actually stop the bumps, or do they bottom out? How does it handle and how quickly does it get on plane? Is it really windy or really noisy where you are likely to sit?
Can you tow it with your vehicle and can you store it somewhere?

Also, always remember you can sell a used boat and buy another so don't over stress. Or you can just keep it until your find a better one, like I'm doing with my 2006 Sanger 215.

Good Luck. Having a boat can be really enjoyable family time...
Old     (sandm01)      Join Date: May 2010       01-23-2020, 4:07 AM Reply   
my .02 fwiw....

had an '06 supra 20ssv and when surfing the boat had to be sunk to the rubrail. bags everywhere. not the best boat on a lake like havasu that can get some decent rollers with not much notice. spent a minute on a friends sanger 210 and it's the same story. we upgraded to a 22ve and it was much better at the larger waves and especially if you have a rookie driver that when picking up a downed surfer turns the wrong way and runs over your own wave. not to the degree the floating bathtubs are now but the ve hulls will be better than some of the lower freeboatd boats. when we were in the market again in '18 I searched high and low for another ve but nothing fit the bill. our other short list included mb 21tomkat and supreme 226.
I'd try to push your budget to mid-high40's and see if you can pick up a early 2010's from supreme/mb/tige. they will board good, surf great and have a lot more freeboard for a larger wave lake than sanger.

all that said based on the ages of your kids if you are wanting them to learn to wakeboard I'd also look to which boats will have a wakeboard wave that cleans up at low speed. a lot of the wakeboats do not clean up at 18mph and if you are going to teach and watch them progress you are going to want a boat that can clean up and not all washed out.

good luck and shopping is almost as much fun as being on the water. lots of eye candy out there.
Old     (tre)      Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: WI       01-23-2020, 4:40 AM Reply   
My old boat was a 2009 24' Supra. Supra had some of the highest freeboard back then. I connected larger rear bags to the factory system so it had 3k of ballast. With a suction surf device, it had a fantastic surf wake. It also had a good wakeboard wake but was sensitive to movement of people in the boat. It did very well in waves though it could take one over the bow if I was stopped with the engine off and the boat was facing directly into a 2+ foot wave. It was rare but could happen. I traded that boat in so I have zero ownership in it. That said, it is still for sale at the dealer: https://www.boathouseh2o.com/invento...-24ssv-gravity
I think it has 335 hours or so. I changed the oil every year, changed the trans fluid every 2 years, V-drive fluid every 2-3 years, Impeller every year, ballast pump impellers every 2 years. I upgraded the racks so surfboards and wakeboards will fit and I upgraded the rear ballast bags. I left all of the upgrades in the boat when I traded it in and I left my suction surf device in the boat. Again, it is not my boat anymore at this point but could be a good deal for someone. It is in really good condition.

Last edited by tre; 01-23-2020 at 4:42 AM.
Old     (PtownNate)      Join Date: Aug 2019       01-23-2020, 10:11 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by rallyart View Post
I've had my 215 since 2006. The biggest waves I've driven in through in storms with my family on board were about 55mph winds with 5 foot waves. You have to drive correctly in that weather but the boat handled it very well and was much better than a 20' Glastron that was out it it too. This was on Shuswap Lake where mountain storms come up in a 5 minute timeframe. I would prefer to be in my Sanger than any other wakeboard boat in bad weather. I've taken my teenage daughter out foiling in 2' waves. We had a lot of fun and no one in the boat had any fears. It is a vastly better boat for rough water than any Tige from around 2006. Centurion Avalanche from that time frame is a good rough water hull also.
The newer bathtub boats do have high freeboard so can be better for surfing but you can drop a Sanger 215 in the water further with less weight than you can some newer bigger boats and get a good surf wave.
The Yamaha has been one of the best selling boats in that size range for many years so it obviously has many good features. There are a couple differences that we prefer with a wake boat for our family. First is that the swim deck is right at the water. Very reassuring for young kids and comfortable for me and my wife to climb into the boat. The cruising economy is better in the wake boat so it's a bit cheaper to run at 25-30 mph. Tow sports and tubing are so easy in the wake boat that you will be surprised.

Here are a couple pieces of solid advice without 'owner bias':
Sit in the boats you are interested in with your family. The feel different, and make you feel different when you are in them. How do people move around, and how do the seats fee.?
Demo the boats if you can. The differences are quickly apparent. How do they feel crossing wakes? Do the seat cushions actually stop the bumps, or do they bottom out? How does it handle and how quickly does it get on plane? Is it really windy or really noisy where you are likely to sit?
Can you tow it with your vehicle and can you store it somewhere?

Also, always remember you can sell a used boat and buy another so don't over stress. Or you can just keep it until your find a better one, like I'm doing with my 2006 Sanger 215.

Good Luck. Having a boat can be really enjoyable family time...

Thatís encouraging to hear. I plan to at lest try to demo the boats I am interested in if it is an option.
Old     (Jmorlan)      Join Date: May 2013       01-23-2020, 11:47 AM Reply   
The 215 is a great value boat and hard to beat. I had one for a few seasons, and a real close friend of mine actually picks up an 09 215 next week, his decision most likely based on his experience on mine.
The 215 are usually priced below other similar year makes in the v drive class, and can often be had in the mid $20k's. Which makes them absolutely a bang for the buck. They are a solid boat, a versatile boat, and a very good handling boat. If you've noticed, not much has changed on them since 2003 or so. That's a testament either to the old adage "if it ain't broke dont fix it," or sanger has fallen behind the times. I'm sure it's a mixture of the 2, and keeps costs low which keeps sales turning over, most likely.
Would I pay dollar for dollar to some of the others? I would not. Would I pay upwards of $70k for a new one, certainly not. I'd look at other options at that price.
I would not purchase a 215 that did not command a discount to other v drive models relative to its year and length. THAT is where you can really find your medium. In that they are well built, fairly simple and trouble free (in my personal experience) priced right, and they do everything they need to do in a package that is very nimble. They are a VERY surfable boat. I removed the hard tanks and put 1100 pnp bags in the rear compartments, left the mid ship bag stock. Lean that bad boy over and dip that rub rail in the water, you'll be surfing till the cows come home.

I had a lot of weight in my boat, and really liked to sink her down. On top of the mid ship and 1100's I carried 2 600lb bags if we were on a short crew, and also had 6 L16 6v batteries in my rear compartments for my stereo. 3 on each side. That added about 300lb per side, but obviously negated some of the capacity of the 1100s, to keep in mind.
You'll find what's right for you but do remember, you can definitely surf a very nice sized, cleanly shaped wake on the v215.

The only reason for selling mine was I was looking for something a little larger and a little newer. Now looking at it, I probably should have kept mine. I'm very excited for my buddy to pick up his 09 and I cant wait to reminisce in some familiarity and enjoy some days on a 215 again. Very hard package to beat for the price. I know I've said that a few times but it is honest. They arent the flashiest, they dont have the most gizmos, you dont get the oooh's and ahh's, or the street cred of a G series or an X star. But what you do get is a very capable package with a TON of money left over.

I moved away from the water hobbies after 10 years or so of boats and jet skis, and purchased myself a big toy hauler and a side by side to experience some new fun. However I would not hesitate to jump back into a 215.

Last edited by Jmorlan; 01-23-2020 at 11:54 AM.

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