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Old    TheWakeIsReal            10-14-2016, 9:00 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
The poll was taken by Rassmusen (sp?)
Classic.

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes...rmed-strongly/
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       10-14-2016, 9:14 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by meathead65 View Post



I'm 51 years old and on the downhill side of my journey, so I'll do what I can to be right for my friends, family, and community. What causes me the most worry is what this country holds in store for my kids.

Great post meathead. Agree with you on almost everything you wrote!

Only objection is to the last point -- don't give up now. You are at your most powerful politically now. Your influence as a worker and job creator is high.

While I identify as a dem, I too yearn for a common sense moderate. I don't want your guns, and I do want some controls put on HI costs.
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       10-14-2016, 9:18 AM Reply   
Meathead with the win!
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-14-2016, 9:20 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by meathead65 View Post
We've lost the desire to find common ground to solve issues, and have devolved into the lowest form of blind partisanship in history.
Yep. One of the biggest issues with all of us is HC/HI. Yet this election hasn't even touched on the subject other than the right wanting to repeal ACA and the left wanting to keep it. Probably the biggest concerns among Americans is HC and yet it isn't addressed at all. Even though the only possible solution that's in the radar is UHC we rejected the only candidate that espoused it.

All of the other 1st world countries have UHC. If you look at the per capita cost of HC in those other countries it's about half what we spend here, even though their life expectancies are higher. Going back to a discriminatory HC system like we had before the ACA doesn't adequately address the hyper inflated system we have in the US, while at the same time denying people access to HC.

We only want to address problems that have easy solutions. But there are no problems with easy solutions. That's why they are problems. For example Trump supporters believe that you can just declare a 45% tariff on chinese goods and it's that simple. So I guess they haven't thought of the fact that every item on the shelf at the retail store will instantly increase in price by probably 60%-80% at the retail level. And that the opposition by corp America will go into overdrive promoting that fact if Trump ever tried to actually do that.

Trump supporters think that you can just drastically cut taxes and the budget will magically balance itself, in spite of analysis showing Trump's plans as doubling or more from the current deficit. IOW Trump is telling everyone that fixing America is simple by just doing things that make little sense.

Yeah, Hillary offers up the status quo. But the status quo is what we need until Americans actually start demanding the politicians address serious issues in a reasonable manner. The ball is in our court. It always has been. But we are too lame to grab it and go. The politicians that we have to choose from are our own doing. Not the mysterious backroom cabals. They only have power because we refuse to take it. And we refuse to take it because there is no common ground in treating politics as a way to get what you want without consideration of others.
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       10-14-2016, 9:26 AM Reply   
Listen, I'm not going to change your mind and you're not going to change mine.

If Hillary's emails bother you but the 22 million deleted emails during the Bush/Cheney administration – also on a private server - don't, I can't argue with that.

http://www.pbs.org/weta/washingtonwe...e-house-emails

If Benghazi bothers you, and the 13 embassy attacks during Bush (where 60 people were killed) doesn't bother you, I have no argument for that.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...embassies-and/

If you think the Clinton's running their charity (a charity with an “A” rating with CharityWatch.org, that has 88% of its contributions going out to charity and not overhead and has a higher rating than the Red Cross and United Way) is a conflict of interest, while having no desire to know where Trump's money comes from – which is now from all foreign sources, because no US bank will loan him money anymore – AND if you had no problem with the conflict of interest with Dick Cheney running Halliburton and making BILLIONS during the war in Iraq, then I have no argument for that.

https://www.charitywatch.org/ratings...foundation/478

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/06/whe...tion-money-go/

If you have women and girls in your life who you want treated with respect and don't have a problem with Trump's rampant misogyny, I have no argument for that.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b07addcb442023

If you don't find Trump's praising of Putin and Kim Jong-un alarming, I have no argument for that.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/contr...ry?id=40373481

If you're OK with voting for someone who is against LGBT rights and has stated that his supreme court pick(s) could overturn marriage equality, I have no argument for that.

http://www.hrc.org/2016RepublicanFac...riage-equality

If you have no problem with someone who has gone on and on and on about Bill Clinton's infidelity while he has cheated on his first wife with his second and his second wife with his third, then I have no argument for that. ALSO, BILL CLINTON ISN'T RUNNING FOR OFFICE, HIS WIFE IS.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...97f_story.html

If the list of proposed Supreme Court nominees that Trump put forth doesn't scare you enough to crap your pants, I have no argument for that.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/elliot..._12196556.html

If Trumps history of racial inequality doesn't bother you. I have no argument for that.

http://fortune.com/2016/06/07/donald...racism-quotes/

If you have no problem when you hear Trump go on about how companies are shipping their jobs overseas and how he will stop this, while his suits are made in Mexico and his ties in China, I have no argument for that.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...complete-list/

If Trump's use of his charity's funds to pay personal debts and buy paintings of himself don't give you pause, then I have no argument for that.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...dc7_story.html

I you think that Trump's a good businessman and will be good for our county's economics, when knowing about how many of his companies failed, I have no argument for that.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...lures-20160314

If the charges of fraud on Trump University and the scandal of his “donation” of $25,000 to Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi, after which she stopped her investigation into Trump University don't bother you, then I have no argument for that.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-c...than-you-think

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...orney-general/

If you buy into the smear campaign against Hillary and don't get that so many on the right have - and have HAD - a hardon to get Clinton for what... 30 years now? And have spent MILLIONS of tax dollars to get her on something and have gotten NOTHING, NADA, ZILCH, ZERO. 30 years of half truths, lies and some bat **** crazy lies (my favorite being the one where she has killed so many people that it would make Hannibal Lector seem lazy!) repeated incessantly until the gullible and uneducated take it as truth, then I have no argument for that.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/6...rty-Year-Smear

And if you think Trump is the better candidate, I have no argument for that either.

And the reason I have no argument with that? Because as I wrote earlier… I'm not going to change your mind, and you're not going to change mine.

I will however think that you are not spending enough time OBJECTIVELY looking at FACTS and EVIDENCE when making your decisions.
Old     (meathead65)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-14-2016, 9:26 AM Reply   
^^^^
I'll get labeled as a Trump guy for saying this, but whatever:

John, I agree. Is the current support for Trump simply a rebellion against the status quo? Is it so bad that folks will consider him to roll the dice that a non-politician might stand a chance of getting something done?
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       10-14-2016, 9:41 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by meathead65 View Post
^^^^
I'll get labeled as a Trump guy for saying this, but whatever:

John, I agree. Is the current support for Trump simply a rebellion against the status quo? Is it so bad that folks will consider him to roll the dice that a non-politician might stand a chance of getting something done?
Man, TOTALLY. If we could have someone who is as plainspoken as Trump but we could trade the narcissism/self interest/willful ignorance of the issues with someone who replaces those traits with policy wonkyness, he or she would be really hard to beat.

I've said (pages and pages and pages ago now in this thread) that there are things to like about trump: he's not beholden to establishment structure or donors (as the past week has clearly demonstrated), he's pretty socially liberal (note his response to bathroom controversy), and he's definitely not morally sanctimonious (like Cruz, who seems to just beg for a kick me sign on his back** or a pie in the face).

Unfortunately he opened his campaign with the mexicans-are-rapists theme and has only gotten more extreme since. There's room for an anti-establishment candidate, but he or she needs to be more moderate, more common sense.

**DELTA -- please note "kick me sign" is meant rhetorically only and I'm not advocating violence.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-14-2016, 9:55 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by meathead65 View Post
^^^^
I'll get labeled as a Trump guy for saying this, but whatever:

John, I agree. Is the current support for Trump simply a rebellion against the status quo? Is it so bad that folks will consider him to roll the dice that a non-politician might stand a chance of getting something done?
Yes, it is incredibly bad. Rolling the dice is just another example of abdicating our duties as citizens to speak with a common voice on topics of importance.
Old     (fouroheight68)      Join Date: May 2006       10-14-2016, 9:57 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Man, TOTALLY. If we could have someone who is as plainspoken as Trump but we could trade the narcissism/self interest/willful ignorance of the issues with someone who replaces those traits with policy wonkyness, he or she would be really hard to beat.

I've said (pages and pages and pages ago now in this thread) that there are things to like about trump: he's not beholden to establishment structure or donors (as the past week has clearly demonstrated), he's pretty socially liberal (note his response to bathroom controversy), and he's definitely not morally sanctimonious (like Cruz, who seems to just beg for a kick me sign on his back** or a pie in the face).

Unfortunately he opened his campaign with the mexicans-are-rapists theme and has only gotten more extreme since. There's room for an anti-establishment candidate, but he or she needs to be more moderate, more common sense.

**DELTA -- please note "kick me sign" is meant rhetorically only and I'm not advocating violence.
You just described Gary Johnson, you realize that right? The 2 term republican Governor who is on every ballot this election.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       10-14-2016, 10:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
You're welcome. I don't get the association of smarts with farts. I guess that's one of those infantile Trump supporter things.
I failed to mention smug too. It's a South Park reference.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       10-14-2016, 10:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fouroheight68 View Post
You just described Gary Johnson, you realize that right? The 2 term republican Governor who is on every ballot this election.
Yeah man I've listened to him. Wonk he is not. His Aleppo moment should've been a wakeup call but it hasn't been.

I also think that there's a lot of dogma that goes along with being a libertarian. Some of those positions are too extreme for me, personally.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       10-14-2016, 10:13 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by meathead65 View Post
^^^^
I'll get labeled as a Trump guy for saying this, but whatever:

John, I agree. Is the current support for Trump simply a rebellion against the status quo? Is it so bad that folks will consider him to roll the dice that a non-politician might stand a chance of getting something done?
You nailed it.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-14-2016, 10:52 AM Reply   
Doesn't everyone smell their own farts? I always give it a good sniff before deciding to claim it or blame the dog.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       10-14-2016, 11:28 AM Reply   
Hasn't anyone watched the south park episode called smug alert? It's a classic.
Old     (allzway)      Join Date: Feb 2014       10-14-2016, 11:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
"no conscious" voting! LOL that made my day allzway!
LOL...not exactly what I meant when I typed it.. but it works either way.

conscience
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       10-14-2016, 12:38 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
Hasn't anyone watched the south park episode called smug alert? It's a classic.
We finally agree on something!

Now go read up on your Rasmussen "poll:"
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes...rmed-strongly/

Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       10-14-2016, 12:43 PM Reply   
Things could be looking up for Trump in New Hampshire though...

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...rump-comeback/
Old    TheWakeIsReal            10-14-2016, 2:40 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
We finally agree on something!

Now go read up on your Rasmussen "poll:"
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes...rmed-strongly/

He already skipped over my post about it with the same link. He will come back with some other rightwingwatch.org article now.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-14-2016, 3:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
I failed to mention smug too.
Yeah, us smug people like to debate the issues, while you common folk like to debate the latest media flap.
Old     (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       10-14-2016, 3:40 PM Reply   
reasons why I would vote for Trump....just based on the issues, no buffoonery considered from either side

against legally requiring the hiring of women and minorities

considers EPA regulations to restrictive

Believes in stiffer punishment for certain crimes

in favor of gun ownership

against expanding oblummercare

believes that a market led recovery is better than a stimulus led recovery

against a pathway for citizenship for illegals

not against expansion of the military

supports American exceptionalism

believes we ought to avoid foreign entanglements

against higher taxes on the wealthy


Clinton has the exact opposite views on each of these.....from what I can surmise
Old    TheWakeIsReal            10-14-2016, 5:39 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ord27 View Post
reasons why I would vote for Trump....just based on the issues, no buffoonery considered from either side

against legally requiring the hiring of women and minorities

considers EPA regulations to restrictive

Believes in stiffer punishment for certain crimes

in favor of gun ownership

against expanding oblummercare

believes that a market led recovery is better than a stimulus led recovery

against a pathway for citizenship for illegals

not against expansion of the military

supports American exceptionalism

believes we ought to avoid foreign entanglements

against higher taxes on the wealthy


Clinton has the exact opposite views on each of these.....from what I can surmise
Expansion of military, but wants to avoid foreign entanglements. Why in the world does that make sense to you. Let's spend more money to stuff Americas crotch and flex but not use it for anything.

Trump is FOR private prisons and mass incarceration. Anybody who agrees with that is out of their mind. You are for a system that puts an even more dangerous product back on the street? Private prisons treat their inmates(well American prisons in general) like absolute sh*t so they're a more damaged product when they leave so they come right back in there. Why does having a system where it is in the interest of the prison to have the guy come back make any sense to you?

Yes, lets kill the planet even further.
Old     (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       10-14-2016, 5:50 PM Reply   
yall wanted to discuss the issues. There are mine. yours?
Old     (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       10-14-2016, 5:52 PM Reply   
oh, quickly
That's what the military ought to be....a deterrent. Powerful, swift, and not needed
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-14-2016, 6:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ord27 View Post
against legally requiring the hiring of women and minorities
Agree
Quote:
Originally Posted by ord27 View Post
considers EPA regulations to restrictive
Disagree
Quote:
Originally Posted by ord27 View Post
Believes in stiffer punishment for certain crimes
Can't say without knowing which crimes
Quote:
Originally Posted by ord27 View Post
in favor of gun ownership
Disagree
Quote:
Originally Posted by ord27 View Post
against expanding oblummercare
Can't say without understanding the system better
Quote:
Originally Posted by ord27 View Post
believes that a market led recovery is better than a stimulus led recovery
Agree but specfically how does the gov support this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ord27 View Post
against a pathway for citizenship for illegals
Agree
Quote:
Originally Posted by ord27 View Post
not against expansion of the military
Disagree, if you are not going to invade so many countries then the military should scaled back
Quote:
Originally Posted by ord27 View Post
supports American exceptionalism
Ha ha,I thought the concept was a joke until i looked it up. Does anybody believe it is an actual thing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ord27 View Post
believes we ought to avoid foreign entanglements
Agree
Quote:
Originally Posted by ord27 View Post
against higher taxes on the wealthy
The whole tax system is a joke, if your only comment is "don't tax the rich anymore" then he has no grasp on what reform is required.
Old     (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       10-14-2016, 6:19 PM Reply   
valid points Darren, and I agree with your questions...

but if just compared to his counterpart , if generically opposite ....then I have to lean his way
Old    TheWakeIsReal            10-14-2016, 6:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ord27 View Post
yall wanted to discuss the issues. There are mine. yours?
Can you just explain to me your take on prisons? Have you done much research in the issue of the American prison system?
Old     (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       10-14-2016, 6:58 PM Reply   
my college major is actually in criminal justice. I would actually like to see more consistency in punishments, a more uniform structure. The articles that I have read about policy differences between the two candidates, addressed the issue of tougher sentencing in relation to deterrence. trump apparently believes that tougher, more consistent punishment will lead to less crime, and Clinton doesn't. If this is truly their stance, I have to side with Trump.
I do, however, think that deterrence shouldn't be the only goal.

As far as privatizing goes, I'm in favor as long as it's not across the board, and isn't left un-watched. I am not in favor of less incarceration, just because we don't have the space. Privatization seems to be a viable option for increasing prison space, without taxing the public. I'm only in favor if certain criteria are met, much like voter ID. Programs for the sake of programs, isn't good enough. There needs to be a fairly lofty standard.

not worded very well, but you get the point
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       10-14-2016, 7:27 PM Reply   
Classic... Matthews interviewing Trump about Bill Clinton... then at 45 seconds asks him about running for President and he foretells all the women now coming out about him sexually abusing them - should have listened to his own advice lol

Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-15-2016, 8:06 AM Reply   
Now the Trump supporting dumba$$es are posting pics of Florance Henderson grabbing a guy's crotch and trying to pass it off as Hillary. Naturally the Trump supporters are too stupid to actually look at the pic. Here's the link they are sharing on FB.

http://www.tdtalliance.com/2016/10/w...photos-of.html
Old    TheWakeIsReal            10-15-2016, 8:21 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ord27 View Post
my college major is actually in criminal justice. I would actually like to see more consistency in punishments, a more uniform structure. The articles that I have read about policy differences between the two candidates, addressed the issue of tougher sentencing in relation to deterrence. trump apparently believes that tougher, more consistent punishment will lead to less crime, and Clinton doesn't. If this is truly their stance, I have to side with Trump.
I do, however, think that deterrence shouldn't be the only goal.

As far as privatizing goes, I'm in favor as long as it's not across the board, and isn't left un-watched. I am not in favor of less incarceration, just because we don't have the space. Privatization seems to be a viable option for increasing prison space, without taxing the public. I'm only in favor if certain criteria are met, much like voter ID. Programs for the sake of programs, isn't good enough. There needs to be a fairly lofty standard.

not worded very well, but you get the point
As a major in criminal justice I'm interested in your takes on this then. Were you in support of the 3 strikes rule with your NRA buddies?

Our recidivism rates are off the charts. I'm sure you have studied other models around the world that actual believe in the name "rehabilitation center". What do you think of those? Don't you think it is a bit crazy we could take a pot dealer, put him in prison and him come out a murderer?

Privatizing, the absolute worst thing you could imagine. How this makes sense to anybody is beyond me. You're asking a company to rehabilitate a person who is a money maker for them. Do you think that is in the companies best interest? I actually want an answer on that one. Because anytime I have asked it when this topic comes up the answer is no. And if you answer no then hopefully you can see the point of why privatizing prisons are a bad idea to save money. You guys are releasing a more dangerous criminal back into society to save tax dollars? Crazy talk. Those private prisons want those guys right back in their system.
Old     (tweeder)      Join Date: Aug 2015       10-16-2016, 1:59 PM Reply   
^^ Have you watched the Netflix documentary the 13th? Really really good and really hammers both democrats and republicans for this privatized prison system we have. Watching it makes me really scared of both candidates.
Old    TheWakeIsReal            10-16-2016, 3:45 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweeder View Post
^^ Have you watched the Netflix documentary the 13th? Really really good and really hammers both democrats and republicans for this privatized prison system we have. Watching it makes me really scared of both candidates.
I have. And while I completely agree both sides have made mistakes, Hillary is 100% trying to end private prisons. How can people think it is ok to own stock in a prison? lol. It is absolute insanity.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-16-2016, 3:49 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweeder View Post
^^ Have you watched the Netflix documentary the 13th? Really really good and really hammers both democrats and republicans for this privatized prison system we have. Watching it makes me really scared of both candidates.
Awesome I will check it out. Watch Dhamma Brothers if you want an uplifting look at the prison system:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKUr-hhy0Es
Old     (tweeder)      Join Date: Aug 2015       10-16-2016, 4:01 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWakeIsReal View Post
I have. And while I completely agree both sides have made mistakes, Hillary is 100% trying to end private prisons. How can people think it is ok to own stock in a prison? lol. It is absolute insanity.
With the caveat of big money in the GPS tracking thing. Hillary is also playing on fear to continue with gun regulation.
Old     (tweeder)      Join Date: Aug 2015       10-16-2016, 4:02 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Awesome I will check it out. Watch Dhamma Brothers if you want an uplifting look at the prison system:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKUr-hhy0Es
I will give that a watch too, always good to seem something positive when it comes to politics.
Old     (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       10-17-2016, 12:17 AM Reply   
ok wake. I will respond in a day or two,....it's been couple of decades.....
Old     (doublemwa)      Join Date: May 2016       10-17-2016, 6:24 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ord27 View Post
reasons why I would vote for Trump....just based on the issues, no buffoonery considered from either side

against legally requiring the hiring of women and minorities

considers EPA regulations to restrictive

Believes in stiffer punishment for certain crimes

in favor of gun ownership

against expanding oblummercare

believes that a market led recovery is better than a stimulus led recovery

against a pathway for citizenship for illegals

not against expansion of the military

supports American exceptionalism

believes we ought to avoid foreign entanglements

against higher taxes on the wealthy


Clinton has the exact opposite views on each of these.....from what I can surmise
Cliff you've had some well thought out post so I don't mind asking you how you think the above will benefit anyone. But in doing so can you give hard facts and figures and not just "feelings".

I ask because in part its a set up. With out searching the times and dates I can think of bipartisan efforts that contradict every point you made above. Everything has no quantitative base or support.
Old    TheWakeIsReal            10-17-2016, 7:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweeder View Post
With the caveat of big money in the GPS tracking thing. Hillary is also playing on fear to continue with gun regulation.
I'm going to assume you're talking about house arrest? Or a version of it in the future with ankle bracelet?

Wouldn't you agree that is a better thing to invest in than private prisons? Or what is your issue with it I should be asking.

It isn't the first time prisons and guns have come into a political play. Remember the 3 strikes rule and the NRA? I don't know how much Hillary has to play on fear with gun regulation. I think the mass murders are doing that itself. But is there any proof you can show on that?
Old    TheWakeIsReal            10-17-2016, 7:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ord27 View Post
ok wake. I will respond in a day or two,....it's been couple of decades.....
Haha gotta hit the books. I just feel pretty strongly about the privatized prisons and ridiculous sentences for non-violent offenders in general. You can also see the psychologic damage it does to the prison guards in the system we have.
Old     (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       10-17-2016, 7:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublemwa View Post
Cliff you've had some well thought out post so I don't mind asking you how you think the above will benefit anyone. But in doing so can you give hard facts and figures and not just "feelings".

I ask because in part its a set up. With out searching the times and dates I can think of bipartisan efforts that contradict every point you made above. Everything has no quantitative base or support.
You can't give real contradictions. You can only give opinions. The state of the union is the proof in the pudding that nothing done in the last few decades has worked.
Old     (doublemwa)      Join Date: May 2016       10-17-2016, 8:29 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
You can't give real contradictions. You can only give opinions. The state of the union is the proof in the pudding that nothing done in the last few decades has worked.
I've given you quantifiable reasons multiple times in this thread. Didn't you get a new boat around 2011? Why did you wait till then? Is because you could have made the purchase in 2009?

Side note, don't deflect. I want a quantifiable reason why a wall, or any of Trumps other policies will help.

If you were not so short sided you would realize this question is a full set-up because Republican's are not known for their statics or tangible reasoning. Case and point, your answer above is only to what I can/can't do.
Old     (tweeder)      Join Date: Aug 2015       10-17-2016, 10:02 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWakeIsReal View Post
I'm going to assume you're talking about house arrest? Or a version of it in the future with ankle bracelet?

Wouldn't you agree that is a better thing to invest in than private prisons? Or what is your issue with it I should be asking.

It isn't the first time prisons and guns have come into a political play. Remember the 3 strikes rule and the NRA? I don't know how much Hillary has to play on fear with gun regulation. I think the mass murders are doing that itself. But is there any proof you can show on that?
Going from Privatized prisons to an increase privatized GPS/Ankle Bracelet is just refraining imprisonment while still allowing corporations to capitalize on crime. You won't see this reverse the effects of the crime bills from Clintons Era. You will still see high arrests, oversized/militarized police departments, and people still removed from society.

It's all deception, aimed to make society believe that the government is really doing something for the people.

As for gun regulation and mass shootings. You have a higher chance of getting shot by handgun in Chicago than an AR-15 in a movie theater, night club, mall, or college campus. There are 847 victims from mass shootings in 50 years in America. There was 468 murders in chicago alone in 2015. Mass shootings are such a blip on the radar for gun crime yet the media sensationalizes it. So we go after the AR15 with no real logic but just emotion.

My problem with clinton and this situation is, she is reactive. In the 90's it was supper predators and all for crime bills over media sensationalism. Now she is all about gun control because of media sensation. Will she strip all our guns away and in 10 years apologize because she made a mistake like she did with the crime bills?
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       10-17-2016, 2:00 PM Reply   
Called it.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN12H1F2

Although I don't think Trump Network fits. Wouldn't Trump News America or Trump Network America be better? I mean it's be TnA for short - perfect...
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       10-17-2016, 5:37 PM Reply   
As bad as TRUMP has been "charged" at being (insert all your allegations here) I'm not saying he is innocent of anything! He had said some pretty brutal things to date. But what I'm so suprised is He is still running very close with the Beast! How is that possible??


Is the beast so bad that it's even close between trump and the Devil
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-17-2016, 7:39 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
Is the beast so bad that it's even close between trump and the Devil
Yes, she is that bad. You guys are just real lucky she cheated Bernie out of the nomination, I could only imagine your dilemma if someone as left Bernie was the other choice.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       10-17-2016, 10:51 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
As bad as TRUMP has been "charged" at being (insert all your allegations here) I'm not saying he is innocent of anything! He had said some pretty brutal things to date. But what I'm so suprised is He is still running very close with the Beast! How is that possible??


Is the beast so bad that it's even close between trump and the Devil
EXACTLY! She is that bad. I'm holding my nose and voting for Trump. "Warts and all." At least he's not corrupt like the beast. The depth of her corruption grows deeper every day with each press release. We can't even see the bottom of it any more.
Old     (doublemwa)      Join Date: May 2016       10-18-2016, 4:52 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
As bad as TRUMP has been "charged" at being (insert all your allegations here) I'm not saying he is innocent of anything! He had said some pretty brutal things to date. But what I'm so suprised is He is still running very close with the Beast! How is that possible??


Is the beast so bad that it's even close between trump and the Devil
Is this your stir the pot topic? He's not even close.......

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/...tion-forecast/

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...nton-5491.html

https://electionbettingodds.com/

Analyst are saying that no candidate has ever come back from being this far behind.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       10-18-2016, 8:43 AM Reply   
^double^
So let me get this straight. The media outlets that have deliberately manipulated or tryed to effect the outcome of the election are telling us THE BEAST is so far in the Leed it's over! Hummmm do you mind if I don't believe them!
That said The Donald has done a great job of sinking his own ship. He has always been the guy in the Acesss Hollywood tapes, A playboy millionaire not a politician
If he was a seasoned politician like the beast he would have NEVER said and acted the way he has publicly.
Old    TheWakeIsReal            10-18-2016, 8:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweeder View Post
Going from Privatized prisons to an increase privatized GPS/Ankle Bracelet is just refraining imprisonment while still allowing corporations to capitalize on crime. You won't see this reverse the effects of the crime bills from Clintons Era. You will still see high arrests, oversized/militarized police departments, and people still removed from society.

It's all deception, aimed to make society believe that the government is really doing something for the people.

As for gun regulation and mass shootings. You have a higher chance of getting shot by handgun in Chicago than an AR-15 in a movie theater, night club, mall, or college campus. There are 847 victims from mass shootings in 50 years in America. There was 468 murders in chicago alone in 2015. Mass shootings are such a blip on the radar for gun crime yet the media sensationalizes it. So we go after the AR15 with no real logic but just emotion.

My problem with clinton and this situation is, she is reactive. In the 90's it was supper predators and all for crime bills over media sensationalism. Now she is all about gun control because of media sensation. Will she strip all our guns away and in 10 years apologize because she made a mistake like she did with the crime bills?
I'm a bit confused. Do you have any topics pertaining to the idea of house arrest?

I fully agree with you that their stance on tough crime was one of the worst moves in recent history for this country. With that said, she is admitting it was wrong and is trying to fix it. With the first step in removing private prisons which is huge to me.

I mentioned nothing of being scared of being shot. That is the last thing I worry about. But to others, it is a very real fear and one that doesn't need the help of Hillary to push. I do think it needs to be tougher to get them. There is a reason why most concealed weapons people are rather stable with their weapons outside of the nut job in Houston. That should be standard across the board for gun ownership to me. That is besides the point of private prisons though.

Trump has come out and said he will lock everybody up. Hillary has said she will soften her stance and shut down private prisons. Trump supports private prisons. There really is no argument on this topic that will change my mind on a candidates stance. I'm still dumbfounded by people who think private prisons are releasing a bettered citizen of the community when they're done serving time. The hypocrisy of the American rehabilitation center.
Old     (doublemwa)      Join Date: May 2016       10-18-2016, 9:00 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
^double^
So let me get this straight. The media outlets that have deliberately manipulated or tryed to effect the outcome of the election are telling us THE BEAST is so far in the Leed it's over! Hummmm do you mind if I don't believe them!
That said The Donald has done a great job of sinking his own ship. He has always been the guy in the Acesss Hollywood tapes, A playboy millionaire not a politician
If he was a seasoned politician like the beast he would have NEVER said and acted the way he has publicly.
Your absolutely correct in that the Don is leading his own demise. I like Tervor Noah's comment about the "rigged media' where he says; "The media isn't rigged, they are just recording [the don] and playing it back." And yes, you have every right to not believe the polls. A lot of them are not worth the URL they are written under.

However, I will defend the links that I gave to you in that they are forecast models that takes into account a lot of white noise, speculation, opinions, motives and historical data to make an accurate prediction. Assuming those are not good enough I would point to the betting lines, of which have an entirely different, and separate, set of motives of setting odds one way or the other. IE: paying out 8-1 on Trump although he is the favored wouldn't make much sense.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       10-18-2016, 9:06 AM Reply   
My point being is it "Plausible" the media is telling possible Trump supporters "it's over" & The beast is so far in the Leed don't bother going out and vote? I'm not a tin foil hat guy and see the writing on the wall I don't think Trump is doing well but it seems like a media dog pile game.
Old     (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       10-18-2016, 9:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublemwa View Post
I've given you quantifiable reasons multiple times in this thread. Didn't you get a new boat around 2011? Why did you wait till then? Is because you could have made the purchase in 2009?

Side note, don't deflect. I want a quantifiable reason why a wall, or any of Trumps other policies will help.

If you were not so short sided you would realize this question is a full set-up because Republican's are not known for their statics or tangible reasoning. Case and point, your answer above is only to what I can/can't do.
I could have bought a new boat in 2009 but I waited till 2010 December to get a deal on a 2011. What does the fact I bought a new boat have to do with anything? I had a 2007 that I sold myself,so 2009 there wasn't much difference in the boats. I'm only 1 person in a country of millions. Defending Trumps policies doesn't matter to me. Voting for someone who hasn't been involved in the corrupt system we call government is most important to me. I think he has the courage to expose the corruption in our government. Now you can have your rebuttal with all your reasons why i'm stupid because i'm not voting like you. Hello? No one on this thread is going to change an opposing posters view.So keep on posting because it's free entertainment.
Old    TheWakeIsReal            10-18-2016, 9:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
I could have bought a new boat in 2009 but I waited till 2010 December to get a deal on a 2011. What does the fact I bought a new boat have to do with anything? I had a 2007 that I sold myself,so 2009 there wasn't much difference in the boats. I'm only 1 person in a country of millions. Defending Trumps policies doesn't matter to me. Voting for someone who hasn't been involved in the corrupt system we call government is most important to me. I think he has the courage to expose the corruption in our government. Now you can have your rebuttal with all your reasons why i'm stupid because i'm not voting like you. Hello? No one on this thread is going to change an opposing posters view.So keep on posting because it's free entertainment.
It's most likely due to the fact most people couldn't buy boats because of the economy in 2009. Remember that whole deal from the last president? Screw Obama though!
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       10-18-2016, 11:21 AM Reply   
Lol groups in Las Vegas are "building a wall" of taco trucks around Trump's hotel:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/adriancarra...YNK#.sbG8Lw4el
Old     (allzway)      Join Date: Feb 2014       10-18-2016, 11:37 AM Reply   
Probably an awesome place to go eat.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       10-18-2016, 1:03 PM Reply   
Yes Grant, every single media outlet and polling company, including the republican leaning ones, are in the tank for Hillary, lol. "I'm not a tinfoil hat guy but..." Maybe you kinda are?

http://www.npr.org/2016/10/18/498406...m_content=2044

While pretty sure of a Clinton win, it also seems fairly unanimous that Repubs will keep control of the house, but the senate is up for grabs:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...linton-to-win/
Old     (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       10-18-2016, 8:43 PM Reply   
I'm not sure that I can post the type of comments that would satisfy your need for specifics.
I have been out of college for a few decades....

thinking about end results...
we need more prison space. Criminals are being released, or not incarcerated, because the existing space is needed for worse criminals. I don't agree with this method.
On paper anyway, private prisons seemed like the fastest way to get more beds, to house more inmates, as populations soar.

I'm in favor of fixing what went wrong, instead of trashing the system, and not building new, government controlled facilities.

This, you understand, is a complex issue that can't really be typed out on a chat board....

random thoughts
other countries, like Australia and some countries under the Queen's reach, have a societal culture that views it's population as ....we are all in this together.
The US, has the culture of Us against Them

This culture is huge when it comes to rehabilitation. It needs fixed. Obama etal, has not only failed to heal this disease, he's made it worse.

two types of criminals.....those that can be rehabilitated, and those that cant. Separate the two groups. Not an easy task, but necessary if you want the system to work

The court system and punishment phase is broken. Create more standardization. A three strikes offender for the more mild "felonies" should not get more time than a murderer......create your own example

yes, I do believe in the 3 strikes rule, but not as it's implemented. This should apply to violent career criminals. Ones that society can't rehab. Criminals that are an extreme danger....

Immigration/borders need secured, school systems improved, jobs created, make it more difficult to get the gov't handouts.....I'm sure that the list of improving the pathway to a productive citizen/society goes on and on. It is soooo inter- related

private prisons. I'm not a fan of how they currently work.
they are understaffed
under skilled with regard to inmate governing
subject to corruption
costly
etc...etc

My thought was to morph the two systems.
House only inmates that are deemed to be rehabilitable (sp?)
The private segment of the prison, teaches inmates a trade. Creates a product that the private party can sell and profit from. This party owns the land and building, and the goods created. Could be agricultural, machined goods....etc.

Inmate leaves with a skill

Government employs the guards. They run the disciplinary part of the system
This is the most costly aspect of a prison, so smarter guys than me would need to brainstorm where the money trail comes and goes.

Private prisons are under contract. Make these contracts shorter. Watchdog service needs to hold it accountable. Minimum guard to inmate ratios. Approval on trades taught, products created....etc

Trump, to me, would think more outside the box and pursue and end result

Clinton would be more of the same, letting prisoners out of the facility.

I want inmates in, if they deserve to be there, regardless of volume. If it's to small.....build a bigger boat

also, for more controversy, I'm in favor of the death penalty, but not with 20 year stays....It has proven to have the most favorable recidivism rate.....:-)

I haven't proof read this. My managers want to gather and let me buy them some beers
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-18-2016, 9:02 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ord27 View Post
thinking about end results...
we need more prison space.
IMO, no we don't need more prison space, we need to stop locking people up for drug offences.

Look and see what has happened to incarceration rates since 1980 when the "war on drugs" started. Taking away somebody's freedom for growing and consuming a plant is morally bankrupt IMO. I see no reason to tell somebody else what they can and can't put in there body. Alcohol good pot bad is retarded thinking.
Old    TheWakeIsReal            10-18-2016, 9:19 PM Reply   
Cliff, we actually see eye to eye on some of stuff you mentioned. I vehemently disagree with the notion that Trump is going fix anything that you find wrong with the prison institution. I fully agree with the ones that can be treated need be given incentive to do so and have a completely different environment to thrive in.

I 100% agree with that on the idea of us against them within our society compared to other nations.

I still haven't gotten an answer from anybody on why a private prison would want to release a prisoner that was better for society? That is just bad for business.

The death penalty is an entirely different animal that would further detract from this thread. But getting just one wrong(and there has been more than one) is too many.
Old     (doublemwa)      Join Date: May 2016       10-19-2016, 8:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
My point being is it "Plausible" the media is telling possible Trump supporters "it's over" & The beast is so far in the Leed don't bother going out and vote? I'm not a tin foil hat guy and see the writing on the wall I don't think Trump is doing well but it seems like a media dog pile game.
It is very plausible, but to me that seems like a low ROI. For the record, the links i provided are not mainstream media outlets. The networks get higher ratings when the race is, at least, perceived as close. If it were a blowout one way or the other it would be hard to fill hour content blocks and sell ads for a during debate coverage.

Reputable forecast models don't get a lot of coverage when compared to any news network.
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       10-19-2016, 9:31 AM Reply   
You guys keep saying how corrupt Hillary is but I have yet to see a single example mentioned in this thread that isn't dismissed as complete BS with a quick internet search.

You guys got any real examples of her "corruption"? Keep in mind, she is far from my favorite person, just MILES above Trump.
Old    deltahoosier            10-19-2016, 9:45 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhorn View Post
You guys keep saying how corrupt Hillary is but I have yet to see a single example mentioned in this thread that isn't dismissed as complete BS with a quick internet search.

You guys got any real examples of her "corruption"? Keep in mind, she is far from my favorite person, just MILES above Trump.
Start with a simple one. Why did she say an internet video was the cause for the "terror" attack in bengahzi? Why did they arrest the video maker when it was clear that a video did not cause anything. Why would she come right out and lie to the public quickly and directly?
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       10-19-2016, 9:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhorn View Post
You guys keep saying how corrupt Hillary is but I have yet to see a single example mentioned in this thread that isn't dismissed as complete BS with a quick internet search.

You guys got any real examples of her "corruption"? Keep in mind, she is far from my favorite person, just MILES above Trump.
You're kidding right???
Old    deltahoosier            10-19-2016, 9:52 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
IMO, no we don't need more prison space, we need to stop locking people up for drug offences.

Look and see what has happened to incarceration rates since 1980 when the "war on drugs" started. Taking away somebody's freedom for growing and consuming a plant is morally bankrupt IMO. I see no reason to tell somebody else what they can and can't put in there body. Alcohol good pot bad is retarded thinking.
Putting people in prison for smoking weed is a lie. It is barely a ticket offense. Weed smokers like to tell them this over and over until they believe it is true.

Two points:
1) Weed smokers say it is not addictive yet are convinced that they will go to prison for smoking weed. I'm sorry. If I am convinced that I am going to prison for an activity, I don't care what it does. I am not going to prison for getting high unless I was addicted. Either that, or they are lying about going to prison for smoking weed.

2) People are risking life and limb to generate the stuff and smuggle it, yet there is a market for it and we still say people are not addicted to it? Sorry man. I am not joining a gang or drug smuggling ring or going to give financial support to those murderous organizations because I want to get high.
Old    deltahoosier            10-19-2016, 10:09 AM Reply   
On your prison topic. Not a fan of private prisons, however private prisons can come to market quicker as government has so many purchasing laws/ requirements that it is almost impossible for an organization to keep up. You can fire poor performers easier in private vs government. Private keeps guards from being part of the freedom of information act. So a person can not simply look up who the guards are and go to their houses and so on. The way the government does it now is you can find police departments salary information and so on, however because they are sworn officers, they have confidential status with the DMV but non sworn do not.

I am also concerned because it gives private businesses an incentive to lobby for certain laws to be passed to criminalize every day activities so they can keep a steady stream of inmates.

It is not a simple topic and more goes into it.

As far as the types of prisoners and laws. People who do these things for a living will tell you that young offenders that do not have a strong family structure will be turned over to the system those who do have strong family structure will most likely be given a change outside the legal system. I got to sit down and talk with a guy who did just that as a psychologist. He said exactly that. He would be called in to assess the family for offenders. They know that statistically the offenders will go back to what they know and who they know when they get out. We see it over and over in society. He said if there was no support structure, the state was given that responsibility.

This goes back to the destruction of the family. Welfare laws where a man can not be in the household? We say drugs are not a problem however there is a large percentage of the population that supports the trade and the violence around it that also will put smoking weed over supporting themselves with a proper job (can't pass the piss test). What is it 75% of black children do not have a father in their lives?
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       10-19-2016, 11:23 AM Reply   
Delta, replace "weed" with "guns" or "children" or "Christ" or "transfats" in your post above.

The argument is that the end user has a liberty interest in "taking care of head." Grant's alternate reality is his business, as long as it doesn't harm me.

Totally get what you are saying about addiction, which is why legalization is a great answer. You won't get rid of addiction through legalization, but you'll at least curtail the rampant crime involved in cultivation and distribution. Sure, according the Sopranos the mob still robs cigarette trucks, and I'm sure there are still some backwoods moonshiners, but with legal tobacco and alcohol readily available those don't seem like huge crime issues to me.
Old    deltahoosier            10-19-2016, 11:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Delta, replace "weed" with "guns" or "children" or "Christ" or "transfats" in your post above.

The argument is that the end user has a liberty interest in "taking care of head." Grant's alternate reality is his business, as long as it doesn't harm me.

Totally get what you are saying about addiction, which is why legalization is a great answer. You won't get rid of addiction through legalization, but you'll at least curtail the rampant crime involved in cultivation and distribution. Sure, according the Sopranos the mob still robs cigarette trucks, and I'm sure there are still some backwoods moonshiners, but with legal tobacco and alcohol readily available those don't seem like huge crime issues to me.
I don't think it is easy to replace all those things with weed as no one is spreading that people are going to jail for simply having any of those things (though the democrats are trying with guns).

I say legalize weed in pill form or liquid form and give it out as a medicine. Isn't that the argument that people want it for medicinal uses? I don't think they want that because they want to get high. People say it is not dangerous, however people are murdering each other by the thousands in the streets to control the drug trade.

A guy I play xbox with sells weed pretty much for a living back east. He gets all his supply from the legally grown weed from the dispensries (sp?) that did not meet quality control. They get it to secondary illegal sellers to distribution because it is cheaper to sell than at the store and they can sell more of it.

A guy next door to me had 3 big plants outside. He has a card but local ordinance states he is only allowed to grow indoors and no more than 50 sq ft. That stuff stinks up the whole block. I literally can pull up to my house and smell it in my truck out front. It also got into the walls of my house with the previous owners who would leave the windows open. Took about a year for the smell to get out of the side bedrooms upstairs. If we leave the windows open, it ruins the house. Next year the city is getting involved because I am not dealing with it.

All this still does not change the fact if is not allowed in the workplace just like pain pills among others are not allowed in the workplace. You are on certain medication, you will be put on disability or fired if you are not able to get off as their are no accommodations in the workplace for being on drugs.
Old     (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       10-19-2016, 12:39 PM Reply   
It's all a moot point at this stage. Hillary will win....and win big.

I'm hoping for two things

1) She is the leader that Obama wasn't. She doesn't try to reinvent America with an extreme left wing agenda. I hope that she gets the right to work with her, by being more in the center of the ideology spectrum
I hope that she nominates some court justices that are acceptable to both sides

2)I hope that this finally motivates the right to become a party that truly represents mainstream republicans.

I seriously doubt that either will actually happen
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       10-19-2016, 12:45 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
I don't think they want that because they want to get high. People say it is not dangerous, however people are murdering each other by the thousands in the streets to control the drug trade.
Regarding the criminality -- how many liquor distribution shootouts or cigarette distribution murders have you heard about lately? Blood in the streets from those? Not that I'm aware of. Take the crime out of production, distribution, and sale, and you're going to take the criminals out of the business.
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       10-19-2016, 12:50 PM Reply   
Markj: I'm not kidding. The only answer I got to my question was "Bengazi" which was investigated to death without any findings of wrong doing. Even Condelezza Rice says that Clinton did nothing wrong.

What would you have done differently? Sent in troops right away? The ambassador would be dead long before anyone got there and you'd have additional dead troops, and the invasion of a sovereign nation and the political turmoil that that would generate (the government was not by the way responsible for the attack)

Do you have any actual FACTS?
Old    deltahoosier            10-19-2016, 12:55 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Regarding the criminality -- how many liquor distribution shootouts or cigarette distribution murders have you heard about lately? Blood in the streets from those? Not that I'm aware of. Take the crime out of production, distribution, and sale, and you're going to take the criminals out of the business.
My point with the guy back east. It has not taken the criminality out of it. people are addicted enough that they will get it as cheap as possible as often as possible. That is why the guy I know still deal weed when people can go down and buy it at the legal store.

I agree with you on a first order principle however addiction is a different beast. It may clean up some of it but not all over it. You still have heroin, coke, crack, meth and so on.
Old    deltahoosier            10-19-2016, 12:58 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhorn View Post
Markj: I'm not kidding. The only answer I got to my question was "Bengazi" which was investigated to death without any findings of wrong doing. Even Condelezza Rice says that Clinton did nothing wrong.

What would you have done differently? Sent in troops right away? The ambassador would be dead long before anyone got there and you'd have additional dead troops, and the invasion of a sovereign nation and the political turmoil that that would generate (the government was not by the way responsible for the attack)

Do you have any actual FACTS?
I started with a simple question on bengahzi that you did not answer. I don't care for the basis of this discussion if she should have sent troops. She should have but everyone knows that they were there running guns to Syrian rebels that later were ISIS. With that out of the question, why did she go unprompted on national television and say the attack was because of a youtube video? She knew that was a lie. Why did she have the video maker arrested and trotted out in front of the press?
Old    deltahoosier            10-19-2016, 1:02 PM Reply   
What do you think of the democrat operative caught on tape admitting to causing riots at trump rallies? I need to watch myself though I have seen some text around it.

http://ijr.com/2016/10/715882-dem-op...thats-not-all/
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       10-19-2016, 1:40 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
My point with the guy back east. It has not taken the criminality out of it. people are addicted enough that they will get it as cheap as possible as often as possible. That is why the guy I know still deal weed when people can go down and buy it at the legal store.

I agree with you on a first order principle however addiction is a different beast. It may clean up some of it but not all over it. You still have heroin, coke, crack, meth and so on.
Your back east guy lives where rec MJ is legal?
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-19-2016, 2:40 PM Reply   
IMO legalize all drugs and tax them according with the social harm they do. Control them just like cigarettes and alcohol, with age limit and education. The only reason someone smokes crack is because it is the best option they have, there are far less harmful drugs which give the user a better experience but they are not available. If these drugs were run through the FDA and sold commercially the social harm of users physical and mental health and the reduction in crime/prison population would be massive.

Also from a moral point of view I just don't see the collective have the right to outlaw what an individual chooses to put in their body, especially if they can produce it themselves.

Politicians have no vision IMO, Maybe I am too libertarian for my own good.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-19-2016, 2:44 PM Reply   
Guess what happened in 1980? The "War on drugs" has been about as successful as the "War on terror".
Attached Images
 
Old    TheWakeIsReal            10-19-2016, 2:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
My point with the guy back east. It has not taken the criminality out of it. people are addicted enough that they will get it as cheap as possible as often as possible. That is why the guy I know still deal weed when people can go down and buy it at the legal store.

I agree with you on a first order principle however addiction is a different beast. It may clean up some of it but not all over it. You still have heroin, coke, crack, meth and so on.
Again. You're just blowing smoke. Of course your guy goes to buy it from a dealer. Because it is illegal back east.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
What do you think of the democrat operative caught on tape admitting to causing riots at trump rallies? I need to watch myself though I have seen some text around it.

http://ijr.com/2016/10/715882-dem-op...thats-not-all/
Do you know who James O'keefe is? I said it in the other thread. Google him and learn about him and his videos before you put your word on the line posting a video of his for truth.
Old    deltahoosier            10-19-2016, 2:50 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Your back east guy lives where rec MJ is legal?
I think he said where he is, it is with a card.
Old    deltahoosier            10-19-2016, 2:56 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Guess what happened in 1980? The "War on drugs" has been about as successful as the "War on terror".
Not absolute causation however with that stat, everyone knows it is illegal yet they still want to do them? The drugs were not legal before 1980 as well. Besides the fact that you are saying the since 1980 that the powers at be decided to enforce the law, can you explain why people are so dead set on going to prison?
Old    deltahoosier            10-19-2016, 2:58 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWakeIsReal View Post
Again. You're just blowing smoke. Of course your guy goes to buy it from a dealer. Because it is illegal back east.



Do you know who James O'keefe is? I said it in the other thread. Google him and learn about him and his videos before you put your word on the line posting a video of his for truth.
He gets his weed from people who are allowed to sell it legally.

Does it matter who he is if he people on the tape are admitting to placing homeless people and so on in a crowd with lines to cause issues and place people in strategic places to film it once they do?
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