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Old     (tjb1080)      Join Date: Jun 2010       11-19-2015, 6:55 AM Reply   
I need to get an order in this month for a 2016 Model (Production slots are filling up)
And I'm torn between a G21 or G23.
There really is not much difference (cooler in the floor, dash board "cubby" on Drivers side in the 23)
The G21 is 2 feet shorter but has the same ballast tanks.
So in theory it sits deeper in the water and throws a "peakier" wake.

I have spoke with two people that ride behind a 23 and a 21 regularly and they both swear the 21 wake is actually better then the 23 wake.

I'm reaching out the Wakeworld community because I'm curious to see if anyone else has this same opinion.

Also if you do have a G21 I'm curious what engine you have and how it planes out fully loaded.

G21 Pros over a G23
Shorter
15k cheaper
Better wakeboard wake. ???
Old     (YYCBoarder)      Join Date: Apr 2013       11-19-2015, 8:40 AM Reply   
I tested the G21 and G23 in the spring before buying the G23 (2015 model). I'm not an advanced rider by any means but personally I preferred the G23. The G21 felt more abrupt than the G23 which is more rampy. It wasn't a massive difference but was noticeable (even to me.) I mentioned this to the dealer when picking up our boat and he said that this all can be adjusted with the NCRS anyways. Not to sound like a broken record, but test both and see if you prefer one over the other.

The 23 might cost a bit more up front but resale will probably be better on it so you won't lose as much over the long run. It's also nice to have the extra space. It was only about $10K for us, although that was a 2015 model and things may have changed.

We have the 450 in ours and it's fine running stock weight at 3,500 ft elevation. It takes a bit more time getting to speed with full ballast and 8-10 people but not bad still. If you plan on running more weight wakeboarding you might want to go to the supercharged engine. Surfing should be ok with whatever you use.
Old     (tjb1080)      Join Date: Jun 2010       11-19-2015, 8:51 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by YYCBoarder View Post
I tested the G21 and G23 in the spring before buying the G23 (2015 model). I'm not an advanced rider by any means but personally I preferred the G23. The G21 felt more abrupt than the G23 which is more rampy. It wasn't a massive difference but was noticeable (even to me.) I mentioned this to the dealer when picking up our boat and he said that this all can be adjusted with the NCRS anyways. Not to sound like a broken record, but test both and see if you prefer one over the other.

The 23 might cost a bit more up front but resale will probably be better on it so you won't lose as much over the long run. It's also nice to have the extra space. It was only about $10K for us, although that was a 2015 model and things may have changed.

We have the 450 in ours and it's fine running stock weight at 3,500 ft elevation. It takes a bit more time getting to speed with full ballast and 8-10 people but not bad still. If you plan on running more weight wakeboarding you might want to go to the supercharged engine. Surfing should be ok with whatever you use.

Im with you on resale value, Im sure there will be more demand for a used G23
The price on the G23 has increased 5.5% this year but the G21 has stayed the same so that's why there is a little more savings on the G21 for 2016.
I would love to ride a 21 and a 23 back-to-back on the same day, but that has proven to be difficult to coordinate and I need to order one of them ASAP.
Thanks for your insight.
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       11-19-2015, 9:05 AM Reply   
I had a 2015 G21, and now have a '16 G23. I can't tell you how much I would be bumming if I went back to the G21..... It's not like a night and day difference, but the G21 wakeboard wake is a little more peaky/vert, and it has kind of a funky lip on top, but that can be managed with NCRS setting. That said, there is no question that I prefer the G23 wake. As for surf wake, the G21 is steeper than I like (some like this, but I do not). I actually did not like the evenly weighted surf wake much at all on my G21. Listing it, even a little bit, made a huge difference though. I loved the G21 surf wave with a slight list. It took that super steepness down a notch and elongated the wave.

I also wouldn't want to live with less cabin room after being used to the 23 now. And I love the cooler in the floor.

Both have great wakes/waves, but I certainly give the edge to the 23.
Old     (Bdillon1)      Join Date: Sep 2015       11-19-2015, 10:27 AM Reply   
As a G21 owner and someone who rides a g23 at least once a week, I can tell you that the wakeboard wake is a very easy transition between the two as it is very similar. The steepness of a G21 is not all that bad.. until you have a boat full of people and then it becomes something you pay more attention to when riding. I find riding behind the G23 is much more effortless and less abrupt pop. However, to throw a twist in here a guy I ride with has been attempting double tantrums and he prefers to throw them behind the G21.

After saying all that I would prefer the G23 wake myself and plan to upgrade in a year to the G23. Main reason for upgrade though is the interior space... That extra 2 feet is a big deal, anymore than 6 people in a G21 and it just feels crowded.

To answer the question about a G21 engine.. my dealer promised a 409 would be all that's necessary.. FALSE!! Fully weighted and more than 2 people in the boat seems to be the breaking point as anything over that and it takes much longer to get on plane.

I personally have never heard anyone wanting a G21 after owning a G23, but I can speak from experience that once you own a G21 you will want a G23!
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       11-19-2015, 10:51 AM Reply   
Bryan- did your G21 have the 2:1 setup? (Although if I remember right, all G21s had the 2:1 unless it had a 550)

I am mostly curious because my G21 had a 409 with 2:1, and I had loaded that thing up with 3k extra ballast and 5+ people, and it had absolutely no problem at all...... On top of that, my buddy has a 2013 G23 with only the 409 and 1.5:1 gearbox and he can get up to wakeboard speed with that kind of weight, although in his, it is probably 20+ seconds to get to 22.5. It does struggle in his boat, but he still gets there. The G21, however, would get there like nothing.

Only other thing I can think of, is if you had too much rear weight? i am honestly surprised to hear you say that on a G21 with a 2:1 box.
Old     (Bdillon1)      Join Date: Sep 2015       11-19-2015, 11:00 AM Reply   
Eric - yes its the 2:1 setup. I may make it sound worse than it is but I know the 409 does not impress me in the time it takes to get on plane. i honestly don't think my boat could handle an extra 3k in ballast at all.

I will say i am guilty of allowing people to sit in the rear instead of pushing some upfront so there is more rear weight than there could be.
Old     (beg4wake)      Join Date: Aug 2012       11-19-2015, 12:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bdillon1 View Post
As a G21 owner and someone who rides a g23 at least once a week, I can tell you that the wakeboard wake is a very easy transition between the two as it is very similar. The steepness of a G21 is not all that bad.. until you have a boat full of people and then it becomes something you pay more attention to when riding. I find riding behind the G23 is much more effortless and less abrupt pop. However, to throw a twist in here a guy I ride with has been attempting double tantrums and he prefers to throw them behind the G21.

After saying all that I would prefer the G23 wake myself and plan to upgrade in a year to the G23. Main reason for upgrade though is the interior space... That extra 2 feet is a big deal, anymore than 6 people in a G21 and it just feels crowded.

To answer the question about a G21 engine.. my dealer promised a 409 would be all that's necessary.. FALSE!! Fully weighted and more than 2 people in the boat seems to be the breaking point as anything over that and it takes much longer to get on plane.

I personally have never heard anyone wanting a G21 after owning a G23, but I can speak from experience that once you own a G21 you will want a G23!

Bryan...WHO at SML is throwing double tantrums?!! Gotta meet him! Oh and PS...you should definitely join up next summer for the Wake the World event that Ken Hayes over at SML Wake Co puts on. You'd enjoy it!

To the OP....I agree with all the above statements. While I would still take a G21's wake over much of the competition, I too prefer the G23. To me, the G21 fully loaded on a stock ballast, reminds me a lot of a 230 fully loaded with about 3k in extra ballast. IMO, it is GREAT when learning a new invert such as spins or flips because it gives you a lot of straight up pop. And if you use the NCRS you can calm that abruptness down a bit and you would have the same basic wake as a G23's except a touch smaller. But like Bryan said, the extra room is a BIG difference! Fully agree that if you get a G21, you may eventually want to upgrade to a G23, but if you get a G23, I'm pretty sure you'll be 100% satisfied! Both are great boats though!
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-19-2015, 2:10 PM Reply   
The price difference is negligible so to speak as I think the G23 will be much easy to move down the road and bridge that initial gap long term.

There are only a couple reasons to choose the 21 over 23 for some. Storage area, trailing, riding in tight places or shallower water. The 21 is much easier to handle in tight turning areas like rivers and smaller lakes. The fact that the boat as mentioned packs ballast in a smaller surface also helps it produce a little better wake in shallower water. The G23 needs much deeper water to get the wakes maxed on the surf side. You can get away in 8 ft with the 21.

Other than that I see no reason not to step up to the 23. There are plenty of other 21ft options out the for buyers to choose from. You're competing with a huge span of boats when you go to sell. The g21 dry weight in size are in a league of its own quite possibly could be paired w/ the X20 which makes it a hard sell in my opinion as people looking for 21ft boats usually are towing them or are there for the size. The g21 doesn't fit that. The G23 specs fall in line with lot of other 23 ft options. Way more desire for the size and will be easy to sell down the road. It's not such a " niche" boat so to speak like an x20 or G21
Old     (tjb1080)      Join Date: Jun 2010       11-19-2015, 7:09 PM Reply   
I have posted numerous times on WW and this is the first time I have received great straight forward responses. No MC bashing or someone trying to get me to buy an Axis.
Anyway, thanks Brian and Aaron for your input,
And great points Xstarrider regarding resale.
looks like G23 wins again. Pretty amazing how perfect that boat really is and how EVERYBODY is trying to copy it! I'm not interested in the new Malibu for 2016 but I'm definitely looking forward to riding behind one this Summer. Ill admit I'm a HUGE MasterCraft fan. Ive had every model of the Xstar. If they ever decide to make a deep hull Wakeboard boat Ill be first in line. But for now the G is king.
Old     (laptom)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-20-2015, 5:45 AM Reply   
Good choice. Enjoy the g23. Which engine you are going to choose?
Old     (Bdillon1)      Join Date: Sep 2015       11-20-2015, 6:38 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by beg4wake View Post
Bryan...WHO at SML is throwing double tantrums?!! Gotta meet him! Oh and PS...you should definitely join up next summer for the Wake the World event that Ken Hayes over at SML Wake Co puts on. You'd enjoy it!

To the OP....I agree with all the above statements. While I would still take a G21's wake over much of the competition, I too prefer the G23. To me, the G21 fully loaded on a stock ballast, reminds me a lot of a 230 fully loaded with about 3k in extra ballast. IMO, it is GREAT when learning a new invert such as spins or flips because it gives you a lot of straight up pop. And if you use the NCRS you can calm that abruptness down a bit and you would have the same basic wake as a G23's except a touch smaller. But like Bryan said, the extra room is a BIG difference! Fully agree that if you get a G21, you may eventually want to upgrade to a G23, but if you get a G23, I'm pretty sure you'll be 100% satisfied! Both are great boats though!
Brian... It's my buddy Chris Bittinger he was about 3/4 through the second rotation when the season ended . Completely agree with wake the world Ken has mentioned it before, just never actually participated! You need to make some SML trips next year and I can get some guys together to ride!

Very good comparison using the 230 wake btw! Very similar shape!
Old     (tjb1080)      Join Date: Jun 2010       11-20-2015, 8:03 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by laptom View Post
Good choice. Enjoy the g23. Which engine you are going to choose?
H6
Old     (andrew_moreton)      Join Date: Feb 2003       11-20-2015, 9:26 AM Reply   
Post up your build-a-boat designs when you get them, Tim! I know you've talked to Joey B. about it, and he's probably one of the guys that liked the G21 better than the G23, but I think an "updated" 2016 G23 would be a better buy than a "non-updated" 2016 G21 in the long run, or even if you want to flip it next year. I'd imagine a similar G21 update has to be coming since the G23 and G25 have been updated.
Old     (laptom)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-20-2015, 10:03 AM Reply   
G21 was already "updated" from the start.
Old     (tjb1080)      Join Date: Jun 2010       11-20-2015, 10:39 AM Reply   
From what I understand the G21 already had the sharper bow and the Surf System integrated into the Hull, and they upgraded the interior and gave it the rotary nob just like the 2016 G23 and G25.
So yes, it has already been "upgraded"

The main thing pushing me to the 23 is resale value and size of the resale market (see Xstarrider comment above) but also the fact that Nautique got rid of the 409 engine for this year.
So to save considerable money on a 21 I would have to get the "small" engine and unfortunatly "small" for 2016 is the H5 with 355hp. Where as "small" for all the previous years has been the 409. I know the 409 worked just fine in the 21s I don't think I would take a chance having only 355hp in my wakeboard boat.

Anyway, its funny to me how hard ive tried to NOT by a G23 (there are already 4 on my lake) but there just is nothing else even close right now or for the foreseeable future.
Ill need to come up with a sic color combo to stand out.
Old     (beg4wake)      Join Date: Aug 2012       11-20-2015, 11:05 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bdillon1 View Post
Brian... It's my buddy Chris Bittinger he was about 3/4 through the second rotation when the season ended . Completely agree with wake the world Ken has mentioned it before, just never actually participated! You need to make some SML trips next year and I can get some guys together to ride!

Very good comparison using the 230 wake btw! Very similar shape!
Nice!! Yeah I've heard Chris goes huge! I'll def be planning some SML trips next summer! Looking forward to meeting you guys! Maybe learn a few things from y'all!
Old     (beg4wake)      Join Date: Aug 2012       11-20-2015, 11:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew_moreton View Post
Post up your build-a-boat designs when you get them, Tim! I know you've talked to Joey B. about it, and he's probably one of the guys that liked the G21 better than the G23, but I think an "updated" 2016 G23 would be a better buy than a "non-updated" 2016 G21 in the long run, or even if you want to flip it next year. I'd imagine a similar G21 update has to be coming since the G23 and G25 have been updated.
Another EXCELLENT point!!
Old     (andrew_moreton)      Join Date: Feb 2003       11-20-2015, 11:37 AM Reply   
I'll admit, I follow MasterCraft much closer than Nautique, but they aren't planning to change the shape of the G21 bow under the rub rail to match the new shape on the G23 and G25 where it's more vertical from the rub rail to the bow eye hook?
Old     (kenv)      Join Date: May 2002       11-20-2015, 11:29 PM Reply   
Tom above says the G21 was "already updated"?? If so, why does it not have the new bow like the 23 and 25 and also, the shape of the back/NSS is different than the "new" 23 and 25. Doesn't incorporate new NSS tabs. My 2015 sprays over the front when surfing....so if it's "upgraded already"...maybe it needs a little MORE upgrading...lol

Last edited by kenv; 11-20-2015 at 11:31 PM. Reason: .
Old     (tjb1080)      Join Date: Jun 2010       11-21-2015, 12:30 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenv View Post
Tom above says the G21 was "already updated"?? If so, why does it not have the new bow like the 23 and 25 and also, the shape of the back/NSS is different than the "new" 23 and 25. Doesn't incorporate new NSS tabs. My 2015 sprays over the front when surfing....so if it's "upgraded already"...maybe it needs a little MORE upgrading...lol
Hmm, I guess it hasn't been upgraded, I thought it had.
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       11-21-2015, 7:34 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenv View Post
Tom above says the G21 was "already updated"?? If so, why does it not have the new bow like the 23 and 25 and also, the shape of the back/NSS is different than the "new" 23 and 25. Doesn't incorporate new NSS tabs. My 2015 sprays over the front when surfing....so if it's "upgraded already"...maybe it needs a little MORE upgrading...lol
Ya..... The G21 hull remains unchanged, and will still have a lot of bow spray. I'm sure they will be changing it, but not for 16.

They did, however, add the rotary control and LINC 3 to the '16 G21
Old     (beg4wake)      Join Date: Aug 2012       11-23-2015, 8:24 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenv View Post
Tom above says the G21 was "already updated"?? If so, why does it not have the new bow like the 23 and 25 and also, the shape of the back/NSS is different than the "new" 23 and 25. Doesn't incorporate new NSS tabs. My 2015 sprays over the front when surfing....so if it's "upgraded already"...maybe it needs a little MORE upgrading...lol
I'm not sure this is 100% correct, but I thought that I read somewhere that when the G21 was designed, it was designed around having the NSS integrated which is one reason they didn't re-design the hull this go around (even though the shape of the tabs are a little different). The G23 and G25 weren't designed like that since they were made before this and the tabs were actually just "added onto" their current hull design. My guess though would be that Nautique may add subtle changes to the hull in the near future for the G21 to take care of that bow spray, but that's just my speculation.

Last edited by beg4wake; 11-23-2015 at 8:26 AM.
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       11-23-2015, 9:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by beg4wake View Post
I'm not sure this is 100% correct, but I thought that I read somewhere that when the G21 was designed, it was designed around having the NSS integrated which is one reason they didn't re-design the hull this go around (even though the shape of the tabs are a little different). The G23 and G25 weren't designed like that since they were made before this and the tabs were actually just "added onto" their current hull design. My guess though would be that Nautique may add subtle changes to the hull in the near future for the G21 to take care of that bow spray, but that's just my speculation.

That is pretty much exactly how it worked......

I would hope that they do change the front of the G21 eventually as well..... Mine sprayed even worse than my buddies '13 G23. It was annoying. That is 95% gone in my '16 G23. Huge difference.

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