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Old     (Lakehaney)      Join Date: May 2012       10-25-2014, 12:19 PM Reply   
I have been reading this board for years and have learned a lot. I'm in the market for a new boat and have narrowed it down to a 23 LSV and a supra SA 440. I'm just sold my nautique 230 and prior to that a Mastercraft x45. I just toured and road behind the x23 and it is an awesome boat but cannot justify spending that kind of money on either the Mastercraft or Nautique.

My dilemma is that the malibu and supra are priced basically the same and have good dealers locally for both. We just got back from being in each and there are pros and cons for both. My initial impression is Supra fit and finish and upholstery is better than Malibu. The Malibu dash is incredible and their resale seems better.

I get a new boat every three to four years. I have never owned either and want to know the pros and cons of each. And no one please bring up MB. Strictly between the malibu and supra.
Old     (hp_inc)      Join Date: Jul 2007       10-25-2014, 1:22 PM Reply   
I have had both, so I guess I can give you my two cents worth. They are both great boats. To me the interior on the Supra is a better fit and finish than the Malibu like you thought as well. The LSV will have more room in the cockpit than the SA. The SA's bow is alot bigger than the LSV's. The SA will outperform the LSV all day long as far as handling etc goes. To me the wakes are similar with nice transitions, but to me it feels like the SA had more of a lip at the top of the wake that gives you more boost off of the wake. Surfing wise, if the boats are weighed evenly, I would say the SA had a better wave. The Swell system works great and it was fun to play with both skim and barrel style waves. Out where I live re-sale seems very similar as far as loss on investment goes. If the SA has the Raptor motor in it, I think you will be happily surprised. That motor is a beast and it is quieter and seems to be better on fuel than my GM motors have been so far. Im running the Raptor in an SE and it moves that heavy beast around like nothing. you can't really go wrong with either, but with having had both, I would give the edge to the Supra. Good luck with your purchase. Hope this helped a little.
Old     (Tims)      Join Date: Feb 2014       10-25-2014, 5:58 PM Reply   
I had a 2012 Malibu VLX and now own a 2014 Supra SC. Both are great boats with good surf and boarding wakes, but the Supra fit / finish and handling is better.
Old     (sevy)      Join Date: Aug 2014       10-25-2014, 6:00 PM Reply   
Why not look at another 230?
Old     (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-25-2014, 9:21 PM Reply   
Yea I would look at least look at another 230 unless you are unhappy with... Something also to consider if u are in that price range a g21 can be had for similar price to an lsv 23, sa or 230...and before you say that's too small, I've been in a g21 (which should prolly be called a g22) and it is not far off a 230 interior wise and with the gear reduction trans you can run the 343 with all the weight u want and save on the engine option. Just something to consider as the wakeboard wake will outperform either of the other two boats you listed by a decent margin and the resale should be good considering the g is the hottest boat on the market right now.

Between the 2 you mentioned I don't think you really can go wrong although the lsv is the best selling boat in the industry for like forever and they seem to hold value really well. I have never ridden in the newer supras but they seem really nice. I think the resale on the supra is going to be tougher however as although they make great boats they don't have the brand equity of a Malibu or nautique yet in some people's eyes.

I rode and surfed a newer x30 and was really disappointed in the surf wake. The wakeboard wake wasn't horrible for what it was tho...
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       10-26-2014, 12:15 AM Reply   
Maze has a lot of good points. One other thing (may not matter to you) is the Supra sucks fuel like a frat boy drinks beer. Of the six boats at the polar bear event, the supra couldn't even make it half way through the event without fear of running out of fuel. That means after twelve 15 minute surf sessions (factory weight only) they had less than a half tank left. The Axis had the same issue but he was loaded down with 6300 lbs total ballast. Just another thing to consider if you're at all thrifty.
Old     (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-26-2014, 9:57 AM Reply   
Also consider an a24 axis ... It's got one of the top 3 surf and wakeboard wakes on the market and could save you about 20k over the other boats you are comparing.

Fuel has always been important to me... Some people on here say if you buy a 100k dollar boat who cares. But I make payments on my boat. And if one boat cost 10$ more per set when loaded than another, as much as me and my crew ride that's about 250$ a month in difference.... Which may not sound like much but that's the difference in price/payment between a loaded supra and g23... Just something I like to consider.
Old     (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       10-26-2014, 10:30 AM Reply   
Mase makes some good points about the A24, it looks like a sweet boat without the crazy price tag.

hey Mase did you do a dealer demo of the X30? If you were that dissappointed in the wakes I can pretty much garuntee the owner or dealer didn't know how to set up the boat (which is weird cause it's very easy to setup the wakes or waves).
Old     (Lakehaney)      Join Date: May 2012       10-26-2014, 12:41 PM Reply   
I would have liked a new 230 but the price my dealer laid on me was about $10 grand higher than the malibu and supra. I couldn't justify the additional $10 grand. I loved the 230 and if price was the same would or slightly more I would have went back to the 230.
Old     (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-26-2014, 12:43 PM Reply   
I actually used to work for the dealer and we took it out and loaded it up. No matter what we did it washed like crazy. Weight, trim tabs etc. it was pretty good with factory or small amounts of weight but when we tried to weight it up it got really washy. We were surfing almost 13 mph to clean it up.
Old     (Kjkimball)      Join Date: Mar 2011       10-26-2014, 1:01 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
Maze has a lot of good points. One other thing (may not matter to you) is the Supra sucks fuel like a frat boy drinks beer. Of the six boats at the polar bear event, the supra couldn't even make it half way through the event without fear of running out of fuel. That means after twelve 15 minute surf sessions (factory weight only) they had less than a half tank left. The Axis had the same issue but he was loaded down with 6300 lbs total ballast. Just another thing to consider if you're at all thrifty.
SA has a 50 gallon tank. Axis A24 70 gallons and Malibu 23LSV 67 gallons. # of sets per half tank is dependent on the size of the tank.
Old     (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       10-26-2014, 1:53 PM Reply   
First of all, you cannot go wrong with either of these boats. They are both sweet and obviously don't listen to a bunch of people on the internet. We all have our opinions... I really dig both brands. I really like the direction Supra is going over the last few years and it is only going to keep heading. As far as resale is concerned, I have gotten a new Supra many years now and had no problem selling them at the end of the year or beginning of the next season. I think it is only going to get better over the next few years as well cause most people are aware of the direction Supra has been going and they are getting a lot of new fans. At the end of the day go with your gut (and your families) and what suits you guys the best and has the best dealer support. Good luck and look forward to seeing what you get....
Old     (hp_inc)      Join Date: Jul 2007       10-26-2014, 3:46 PM Reply   
All good comments. Markj before you spit some information out perhaps you should actually know the facts. :-) It was a pleasure meeting you by the way. The SC that was out at Polar Bear didn't suck a ton of gas. It was not filled to start the event on accident. That is my bad as I am the one that brought it out. I averaged 4.9 gph at that event with the SC once I figured out that it hadnt been completely fueled. I fueled it at lunch on saturday and didn't fuel it again. I would say 4.9 per hour surfing with 2800 lbs of stock ballast mixed with a little lead and 8 bodies in the boat is pretty good. ;-)
Old     (Lakehaney)      Join Date: May 2012       10-26-2014, 5:59 PM Reply   
Justin,the Malibu dealership said it was easier to dip the front end from what I was used to in my 230. Has that been your experience ?
Old     (Lakehaney)      Join Date: May 2012       10-26-2014, 6:14 PM Reply   
That is on the supra.
Old     (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       10-26-2014, 6:22 PM Reply   
So the Malibu dealer told you something negative about the Supra(competition)….you don't say!!!
Old     (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-26-2014, 7:11 PM Reply   
A24 has a 78 gallon tank... Trust me I've filled it up a few times... $$$$$. I have gotten 14 sets out of a tank slammed though
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       10-26-2014, 7:15 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by hp_inc View Post
All good comments. Markj before you spit some information out perhaps you should actually know the facts. :-) It was a pleasure meeting you by the way. The SC that was out at Polar Bear didn't suck a ton of gas. It was not filled to start the event on accident. That is my bad as I am the one that brought it out. I averaged 4.9 gph at that event with the SC once I figured out that it hadnt been completely fueled. I fueled it at lunch on saturday and didn't fuel it again. I would say 4.9 per hour surfing with 2800 lbs of stock ballast mixed with a little lead and 8 bodies in the boat is pretty good. ;-)
Thats not what the event organizers told me but I'll take you at your word. Might want to identify yourself as a Supra salesman when you're giving your opinions too. BTW, I loved the fit and finish of the Supra. They've definitely stepped it up. Nice to meet you too.
Old     (hp_inc)      Join Date: Jul 2007       10-26-2014, 9:17 PM Reply   
Mark, Do you mean the event promoters that are backed by Tige said something bad about Supra? Shocking. ;-) I'm sure they had great things to say about every other brand other than Tige out there as well. ;-) The original poster asked about two boats that I have alot of experience with and I have owned both. Kevin, I have never owned a 230 so I don't really have the experience to compare it to. The SA didn't dip its bow any easier than my LSV.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       10-26-2014, 10:06 PM Reply   
Justin, I'm not bagging on Supra. Supra makes a really nice boat and it shows. Its obvious to even a casual observer who makes the effort to check them out. As far as the fuel economy report goes, you can take that up with the event sponsors. Two of them own Tiges and one owns a Supreme. I don't think they were being malicious, just maybe misinformed when they made those statements. Maybe you didn't tell them that you forgot to fill the tank before you pulled an all weekend event and they assumed wrongly. As for other brands, I heard them say many positive things about all boats represented, including Supra. In fact, I don't remember hearing a single criticism about the Supra from the other participants either-other than the fuel usage but, you've set us all straight on that now right?

To the OP: I'm a current Nauti owner who is in the market and they have priced me out of the market as well. If I could only choose between the ones you've come up with, I'd be getting the Supra all day long..... Even if it's a gas hog. (JK)
Old     (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       10-26-2014, 10:29 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by superair502 View Post
I actually used to work for the dealer and we took it out and loaded it up. No matter what we did it washed like crazy. Weight, trim tabs etc. it was pretty good with factory or small amounts of weight but when we tried to weight it up it got really washy. We were surfing almost 13 mph to clean it up.
That's so weird, I have put 300 hours on new X30s and have found the EXACT opposite. No matter how much we put in for wakeboarding or surfing the wake/wave only gets bigger and stays clean. We surf at 10.5 and have honestly never had it wash out from too much weight in 3 years. I definitley suspect there was an issue with that boat or more likely the tabs.
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       10-27-2014, 5:00 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 501s View Post
That's so weird, I have put 300 hours on new X30s and have found the EXACT opposite. No matter how much we put in for wakeboarding or surfing the wake/wave only gets bigger and stays clean. We surf at 10.5 and have honestly never had it wash out from too much weight in 3 years. I definitley suspect there was an issue with that boat or more likely the tabs.
X2.......

X30 has one of the absolutely easiest wakes/waves to keep clean. It doesn't have the biggest wake in the industry, but it does have one of the cleanest. Stock ballast, or heavily loaded.

I think the boat that Mase took out, must have had a tab actuator malfunction, or the service guys put the actuator pins in the wrong position. (Very common for uninformed service techs, that set the boat up)
Old     (Lakehaney)      Join Date: May 2012       10-27-2014, 3:16 PM Reply   
Justin thanks for the information
Old     (hp_inc)      Join Date: Jul 2007       10-27-2014, 3:47 PM Reply   
No problem Kevin.
Old     (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-27-2014, 4:04 PM Reply   
Here is what we were getting. Had a 400 in rear 750 in floor 600 under seat and factory full on that side. This was like 2 years ago but I remember we were going like 12.5 pulling this guy. im sure it may be good as I have heard that but it wasn't for us that day.
Attached Images
 
Old     (riddick)      Join Date: Jan 2010       10-27-2014, 5:20 PM Reply   
Kevin, check your PM inbox.
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       10-28-2014, 4:54 AM Reply   
Mase- I can see why you were having a problem. There is WAY too much rear weight in that boat. If you go in a X30 again, get enough front weight, so that the driver can see perfectly without being bolstered up. That will be about the right weight balance. A good setup for goofy, without Gen2, would have been something like-

Factory full
750 in rear locker on surf side
400 in the bow (split 200 and 200 under seats, or 400 in front portion of walkway)
10.5-11.2mph
Move a person or three, to get the final tweaks...


Was the boat even up to speed yet in that pic? I can't see any residual waves from any further than 20 feet back. It looks like the boat had just barely taken off.......
Old     (rockballer)      Join Date: Jun 2014       10-28-2014, 5:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by superair502 View Post
Here is what we were getting. Had a 400 in rear 750 in floor 600 under seat and factory full on that side. This was like 2 years ago but I remember we were going like 12.5 pulling this guy. im sure it may be good as I have heard that but it wasn't for us that day.
LOL ... If you can't surf your better off bringing something good to look at
Old     (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-28-2014, 8:03 AM Reply   
I think a lot of the problems were due to the speed being ALL over the place. I can assure you the wake was not washed due to getting it up to speed although looking at it I can see why you would think that. It just honestly wasn't all that impressive to me size wise even when clean. As I have said though could have been attributed to anything as people rave about the x30 surf wake.,, it just was not our experience. There is one on my lake that seems to be always throwing a large clean wave though... Matt your comment is a little tough to understand? You were saying we should have brought good looking girls? There are 2 in the picture and were another 2 that were sitting on the observer seat.
Old     (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-28-2014, 8:04 AM Reply   
in reference to the speed that boat had major problems with the factory cruise (not zero off) holding speed.
Old     (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       10-28-2014, 9:28 AM Reply   
Thanks for clarifying Mase. You were on a 2012 and when they first came out the PP was AWFUL. Like the worst. Zero off fixed it though. I can see why you had a bad impression of the boat. It's amazing how something as small as speed control can wreck a boating experience. Here are a few shots of the wave with just a 750 in the rear, some lead (600lbs) and people, and one of the wakeboard wake.

I'd sure like to take a set on an A24 this spring. For new 24ft boats, they are very well priced, probably the best value going.

To the OP, as much as I like the SA, I would still go with an LSV over it. I think the 23LSV is in the top 3 best looking boats on the water and their new screen and interiors are nice. The only thing they really lack is storage.
Attached Images
   
Old     (Redheadd)      Join Date: Apr 2014       10-28-2014, 9:43 AM Reply   
Boy surfing sure looks fun! ;(
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       10-28-2014, 10:37 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by superair502 View Post
in reference to the speed that boat had major problems with the factory cruise (not zero off) holding speed.

Ya, if it was a 2012 that didn't have zero-off, I can certainly understand your frustration. Perfect pass was crap that year. MC ended up giving zero-off to most of the customers that didn't opt for it to begin with.

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