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Old     (talltigeguy)      Join Date: Sep 2003       03-08-2011, 6:46 PM Reply   
I am getting itchy for spring....so I have had too much time to think about boat stuff. Please forgive.

In the debates about boat resale value, too many folks look at the actual selling price of their boat and say it has 'held its value' without having considered where the price to replace it with a new one has gone.

For example: I have a 2006 X45, and it books out on NADA about 50-55K. Interestingly, new similarly loaded X45's were listed at 122K at the boat show. I suspect that they actually expected to get high 90's or low 100's for them. Thus my boat has depreciated 50% over its 5 years of ownership. Or about 50 grand.

The TIges that I have seen have about the exact same % of depreciation when compared to brand new boats. But because the starting price is not so high, the actual loss is less. A new 24Ve can be had for roughly 70K. a 2006 seems to be going mid 30's. Thus this boat would depreciate 50% over its first 5 years of ownership. Or about 35 grand.

And Malibu 247...new is over 90K, 2006 is high 40's now. See the trend?

This concept only applies to 2006 compared to 2011. I don't want to hear about some ninny who wants to chime in about how they sold their 2002 for more than they paid for it in 2006. Times are not the same, those days are over.

Using this formula, which boat has the highest resale? I think this formula shows the big 3 probably do not hold that much extra resale value in the first 5 years. I suspect that comparing 10 year old boats is where MC and others would shine. But that is pretty hard to do since models change and how a boat is treated starts to make a big difference in how it is sold.

Forgive the rambling...Let me hear your thoughts.
Old     (consigliereg8r)      Join Date: Aug 2009       03-08-2011, 7:55 PM Reply   
I think the key is buy used. I bought a used 06 SAN 220 two and 1/2 years ago. I think I can sell it for near what I paid for it. Buy used quality and the value will stay. Buying a nd boat is like buying a new BMN 750 Nice but you will feel the pain. I think your values and depreciation figures are correct. I'd like to see the depreciation curve plotted over 1-10 years
Old     (ShawnB)      Join Date: Oct 2010       03-08-2011, 8:36 PM Reply   
I agree on principal with you but you really have to look at what the boats cost new in 2006. I'd suspect you're looking at 35-40% loss in value rather than the 50% you're quoting. Again, it's a good point. Boats are not a good financial investment.
Old    SamIngram            03-08-2011, 8:59 PM Reply   
Way to use your noodle!

I don't follow the logic. Depreciation should be based on the cost you paid, not replacement cost... You didn't work with Bernard Madoff did you?
Old     (durty_curt)      Join Date: Apr 2008       03-08-2011, 9:13 PM Reply   
hahahahahahhahahaha!
Old     (clayton191)      Join Date: Apr 2006       03-08-2011, 9:29 PM Reply   
Dude, pretty much everything new depreciates quickly over the first frew years, then it tapers off --- it's life. Its not just boats -- cars, boats, wakeboards, bindings, women -- happens to everything...
Old    SamIngram            03-08-2011, 9:42 PM Reply   
Actually, I could probably make a pretty good argument that my boat is appreciating.
Old     (durty_curt)      Join Date: Apr 2008       03-08-2011, 10:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamIngram View Post
Actually, I could probably make a pretty good argument that my boat is appreciating.
Im sure your boat appreciates you sticking up for her
Old     (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       03-09-2011, 3:38 AM Reply   
If you are buying a boat as an investment it is a bad one. Unless you add in the amount of pleasure you get owning it then its priceless. It seems boats take the greatest hit in the first 10 years then depending on condition they stay the same.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-09-2011, 4:30 AM Reply   
I look at it this way. I get to enjoy my boat (and as a result the lake) anytime I want to, any weekday evening or weekend I want to, and all it costs me, other than the boat payment, is gas. Assuming you buy (for illustration purposes only) a new Axis A22 for, say, $50k. In one year, that boat's probably going to depreciate 10%, and continue to do so over the next 4 years. You're going to lose 5k the first year, a little less the next year, a little less the next year, etc. Until the boat ends up being worth about 30-35k. That seems to be the magic sticking point for wakeboats where their depreciation levels out. Heck, I still see '02' Xstars selling for high 20's and '03'04 SANTE 210's selling in the 30's. Looking back to '02-05 timeframe, there were really not that many wakeboats on the market that produced a really nice wake. I understand that that will not be the case looking back to today from five years from not; however, the overall cost of wakeboats has skyrocketed, so I think that will offset the increased dilution factor in the used market five years from now.

Anywho, I figure it's going to cost me 4-5k every year to own a boat I bought new. Well shoot, what's that? A trip to disney world with the family, or a trip to Sandals with the wife (where I'm around a bunch of strangers I don't know)? One week of my life that I'll probably forget in a month and *poof* $5k gone. I'd just rather spread that out over a 6 month riding season and enjoying free time on the lake with my friends and family that's much less stressful and much less of a biatch than trying to fly somewhere.

No doubt you can buy used and limit the impact of depreciation. However, if you buy used, you are at the mercy of selecting from what's on the market at the time. You can't pick your options, colors, etc. You also end up taking somewhat of a risk because you don't have a warranty with a used boat most of the time, and we all know that stuff breaks each and every season on these wakeboats.

It's all a matter of perspective.
Old     (talltigeguy)      Join Date: Sep 2003       03-09-2011, 6:51 AM Reply   
This thread has gone the wrong direction from the discussion I was trying to create.

For sure boats depreciate, and we all accept that as the cost of doing something we love.

My question is about how various brands depreciate. The point being that I don't think that the supposed high end boats hold their value a whole lot better than any other brand. And I don't think the current cycle of new boats getting more and more expensive can last forever. That has buoyed up used boat prices in a major way.

And of course, anyone who bought a boat at the peak of the economic collapse 2 years ago can probably sell that boat for more than they paid. But again, I am focused on 2006 vs. 2011 so hopefully hard numbers can be generated.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       03-09-2011, 7:44 AM Reply   
Depreciation should be run off the original selling price. You are not obligated to go buy another boat, or stick with the same brand.
Old     (chrisdurcan)      Join Date: Dec 2009       03-09-2011, 8:03 AM Reply   
From what I have seen name brands such as Master Craft, Natique, Malibu etc hold their value well. It also seems that now Moomba, centurian and other vdrives are keeping pace with some of the name brands. I think that we as the consumer set the marketplace for boat prices, for example when I went to sell my 06 X1 last week I sold it for 33K, even tho in 09 I bought it for 29k. When I sold my boat at that time the average price was anywhere from 30-36 depending on where you are located....my point begin I think that regardless of brand we set the market place for boat value. It fluctuates depending on location as well as how everyone else who is selling similar boats are valuing them at that time.
Old     (wakecumberlandky)      Join Date: Feb 2011       03-09-2011, 8:16 AM Reply   
Depreciation is always off the price of your item new... never off the price of a new current market product. It that were the case then you would essentially be creating money and driving inflation.There for you cannot say that a 2006 has depreciated by 50% based on the current price of the same model in 2011. If you paid 80k for a boat in 2006 and today its worth say 60k thats only 25% depreciation.
Old     (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       03-09-2011, 8:29 AM Reply   
well, is there anyone on this site that bought a new boat in 2006 that still has it? If so, all you'd have to do to test the theory is go see what boats are selling for on avg that are the same as yours and post the depreciation percentage. you don't have to post what you paid if you don't want to. What did an X45 sell for in 2006? I'd guess it was still 70k, but I don't know for sure.
Old     (nauty)      Join Date: Feb 2004       03-09-2011, 8:44 AM Reply   
I think that we will reach a point when 2002-2005 V-drive boats will level off in resale price as the demand for them increases over the next 5 years. The reason I believe this is related to the enormous prices of today's boats. If you were searching for a used wake boat in the mid 2000's your choices were either a relatively new V-drive or an older direct drive. Obviously most people prefer a V-drive for wakeboarding. With that in mind, if you were looking for an in-expensive wake boat today you would most likely be targeting 2005 or older V-drives in the $28k-$35k range.

It seemed that around 2005-2006 was when prices started soaring for new wake boats as manufacturers were adding more bells and whistles. As I walked around the boat show this year I couldn't believe the prices for today's new wake boats. My first thought was that to sell one of these used 3-4 years from now the asking price would still be in the 50's if not higher.

I just think this will price too many people out of getting into a used V-drive, thus making 2005 and below used V-drives very popular over the next 5 years. In 2005 I paid $36k for my Supra SSV brand new. Today I see the same model boat (used) listing for $28-k-$32k. I wouldn't be surprised if prices for a my 2004 Supra SSV stay in the high 20's for the next 5 years or more. If this holds true that would put my then 12 year old Supra selling for a mere $12k less than I paid for it (33% depreciation).

I'm sure others will have their own opinions, but with new boat pricing as high as it is today, this is how I see it.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       03-09-2011, 9:08 AM Reply   
Well put Nauty. I agree.
Old     (bmartin)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-09-2011, 10:05 AM Reply   
I get what you are trying to say Tigeguy and agree with your general notion. Despite the loyalties and claims that the big three hold there value better, there is probably not a lot of difference in the depreciation percentage across all the manufacturers, but probably a bigger actual gross reduction in value with the more expensive boats. 50% depreciation on a 100k boat is more dollars than 50% on a 50k boat. Sure the accountants are corect in that you should be using the actual acquisition cost to form the basis of calculating depreciation, but using current retail or 'replacement cost' probably gives you a reasonable back of the envelope feel for what the depreciation percentage is, well at least in relative terms across boat makers.

Last edited by bmartin; 03-09-2011 at 10:08 AM.
Old     (sailing216)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-09-2011, 10:17 AM Reply   
I agree with Nauti as well. My 06' is holding steady now at $35k realistically. A new one starts just under $70k msrp and throw in $10k in options and probably really a $15k discount selling, so close to the original thread of 50% after 5 years. So I agree the percentage on resale is similar across the board at 5 years.

Similar to used cars as nowadays, a good running beater is still going to be $7500. Gone are the days of a reliable $1000 car you could give to your teenager.
Old     (wakebrdr94)      Join Date: Jul 2010       03-09-2011, 10:52 AM Reply   
It boils down to what someone is willing to pay. I bought my 02 vlx for 48500 brand new in feb of 02. Sold it for 23k this past december. Had 515 hours on it. Every one here has a different opinion to what their boat is worth. Fact of the matter is, if you want a new wake boat and it is going for 80-100k, 25-45k doesn't sound so bad to a lot of people. Mine was on the market for two months during the winter, and I saw similar vlx's in the listings. For 28-30k. Almost hit the 50% mark after 8 years. There is a demand for wake boats, but a lot of people can't get to the new boat level, so it makes an even greater demand for used boats, which helps them keep their resale value higher. Just my .02
Old     (talltigeguy)      Join Date: Sep 2003       03-09-2011, 8:28 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisdurcan View Post
From what I have seen name brands such as Master Craft, Natique, Malibu etc hold their value well. It also seems that now Moomba, centurian and other vdrives are keeping pace with some of the name brands.
Chris,

I would like to see why you believe such. I don't think it is true....it seems to be all about the same to me across every brand I have looked at. In fact because the % depreciation is the same, the more expensive boats have a greater net loss.

In my little world, I am positive that in 10 years, my 2006 MC X45 is going to be in better condition than my 2005 Tige will be. But I was trying to keep the discussion based on late model depreciation.
Old     (joe_crawley)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-09-2011, 9:25 PM Reply   
06 x1 paid mid 40s worth 30 now, probably down 30%.

Last edited by joe_crawley; 03-09-2011 at 9:31 PM.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-10-2011, 5:15 AM Reply   
I bought a 1990 MC prostar 190 in '03 for $9200. I sold that boat in '04 for 12k after adding a monster tower and some tower speakers. I bought an '02 MC XStar in '04 with 200 hours on it for 32k and sold it in '2006 with 400 hours on it for 32k. I bought a 2007 Malibu VLX in 2006 for 53k and sold it in 2008, with trailer 140 hours, and a nice system in it for 53k. I sold a year old '08 SANTE 230 in 2009, with a trailer and wetsounds tower speakers and 130 hours, for 64k. I sold a year old '09 SANTE 230 in January of 2010 with no tower speakers, no trailer, and no bimini, with 110 hours on it for 68k. I sold a '10 SANTE 230 with 70 hours on it, full wetsounds system, trailer and z5 for 82k in October of '10. I'm not going to state what I bought the 230's for because it was part of a sponsorship deal.

Maybe this gives you guys an idea as to what some boats manufactured by MC, CC and BU have historically done in one year in terms of depreciation.
Old     (Thrall)      Join Date: Oct 2010       03-10-2011, 8:01 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakereviews View Post
well, is there anyone on this site that bought a new boat in 2006 that still has it? If so, all you'd have to do to test the theory is go see what boats are selling for on avg that are the same as yours and post the depreciation percentage. you don't have to post what you paid if you don't want to. What did an X45 sell for in 2006? I'd guess it was still 70k, but I don't know for sure.
I didn't buy it new, but I know what the orig owner paid for my 06 X2 new. He paid $55k + tax + spent a couple thousand on hard options (stereo), so close to $60k out the door.
I bought it in '09 for $40k with only 48hrs on it.
I've added about $2k in options (parts only, more stereo, heater, shower, better prop) and with just over 100hrs on it right now, figure it's worth $42-45k.
So orig owner took about a 33% depreciation hit.
Old     (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       03-10-2011, 10:21 AM Reply   
I appreciate my boat, and I'm sure it appreciates me as much as it is capable of. Mine won't get sold for another decade or more so it is just moot on my end.

Tailgateguy has a valid point. The price you can sell your boat for is relative to the replacement cost. There was a time when one year old Porsche was selling for 5% more than it had cost new. The new Porsches were being sold for vastly more but the pitch was 'look at the resale value'. It was all due to a rapid change in the US dollar versus the Deutschmark and had nothing to do with the car. (Yes I was around before the Euro, in fact I remember clearly how upset we Canadians were when the US dollar was finally worth as much as a colourful dollar.)

OK, I'm officially just rambling now and no longer contributing anything useful. I should be posting all this in eight posts just to get my count up. ...Yet another ramble... I'm feeling a little guilty about reaching for the 'Post Quick Reply'
Old     (talltigeguy)      Join Date: Sep 2003       03-10-2011, 6:59 PM Reply   
Art,
tailgateguy....good one. But I am a little sensitive today after being called an arrogant prick on Tigeowners for stating I thought a guy was on crack for asking too much for his boat for sale. So be easy on me, my ego is sensitive right now. And this did not turn out to be my best thread...sort of floundered...but at least I upped my post count
Old     (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       03-10-2011, 9:34 PM Reply   
Don't worry TALL.All we need to do is figure out chattwakes secret.we could sell used boats for more than they can be bought for new.In this economy where boat dealers are dropping like flies,he is able to buy a winning lottery ticket every couple of years.However you and i live in the real world and no matter what we buy it depreciates.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-11-2011, 4:36 AM Reply   
Well, I'm not sure what that comments all about. I have no reason to misstated anything. I buy solid black or white boats, option them well, keep hours low, and market them nationally - which dealers can't do for new boats. Yea, I've been extremely lucky in selling boats. That may not continue, which is one of the reasons why I'm getting an a22. I can't continue to take the risk of selling a used boat for 80+k

Last edited by chattwake; 03-11-2011 at 4:41 AM.

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