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Old     (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Minnesnowda       05-12-2011, 7:55 AM Reply   
SO I am not trying to kick a sleeping giant in anyway but I had a really interesting conversation with a Buddy of mine last night. The basic premis is that be has been riding Company Boards the last two years. He honestly bought he Vandall Board because Vandall is his fav rider. Like the guy in the Company thread, he need to have a warranty issue fixed. But Company is MIA. In the past my buddy has alway sort of ridden obsure boards and obscure brands. Like Slingshot when they first hit the Market. The HL Drifter back in the day. Byerly Hook Board, LF Fish, etc.

I was asking him what board he is going to ride this summer. Actually I was just pushing O'brien on him. He listed off a bunch of boards he thought were cool. He Mentioned, Sine, CTRL, Humaniod, and a few other slightly less mainstream brands. Then he said something profound and I quote, "Honestly though, I will probably just buy Board from a one of the 5 Major Companies." So naturally I asked Why. He immediatley pointed out the Company issue and not being able to warranty his gear, basically saying he has a $500 paper wieght. He told me he is affraid of buying a board from a company that might not be there next year, that it's just not worth it. In the end I ended up kicking him a Decade from last year which he was stoked on.

Here is my question. Do people take into consideration when buying a Board that the company is a small start up and might not be there next year? Or is the fact that they are new and obsure one of the attractions. I really have not opinion you all know what compay I like. But does this sort of limit the amount of people that buy these new start ups, is this part of what drives the new companies out of business. This conversatoin just got me thinking that's all. So I thought I would rant about it on wakeworld.com cant wait to hear everyones opinions.

The last thing my buddy said that stuck with me was, "if your riding hard, paying for your own gear, and you cannot get replacement parts or gear, you're riding on borrowed time."
Old     (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       05-12-2011, 8:28 AM Reply   
Some reasons (not necessarily in order)

1. Most start ups are going to be "Made in the USA." Some people will go out of their way to support the good USofA and the jobs it would provide especially in these days

2. Intrigue with the New and Different. I got that "Byerly Hook Board" too because A. Byerly was my favorite rider, B. It was Unique, C. I could not demo easily anyway. New ways to build boards, New styles, flex, etc. ... it gets people's attention

3. Wanting to contribute to and expand wakeboarding. I think most everyone would like to see wakeboarding grow. the more people involved the more likely it is to advance. this one kinda goes hand in hand with #2, the intrigue with the new and wanting to support that.



For me personally i would list, in order,
Intrigue with the new
Made in USA
Growing the sport

Warranty is not too high a concern on my list personally. I only ride about 20-30 days out of a year. I tend to buy most of my stuff on-line, because I would have to travel very Far to warranty stuff anyway. But if i am out of town, already planing on getting some gear, get a good deal, then ya, I will support a local shop.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       05-12-2011, 8:30 AM Reply   
I bought two Ronix boards the first year they came out. I guess I don't really think of the warranty issue when I buy a board.
Old     (irishrider92)      Join Date: Jun 2009       05-12-2011, 8:51 AM Reply   
Absolutely I would. Thing is though for me that CRTL, Sine and Humanoid haven't really reached Ireland at all, so I'm happier supporting a new local shop than a new company, which is what I'm currently doing
Old     (wazzy)      Join Date: Nov 2001       05-12-2011, 9:57 AM Reply   
I tend to look for smaller/different companies to buy/try. I am still kicking myself for not buying a Collin Wright Board when he was starting up his company.
Old     (snoopy1173)      Join Date: May 2010       05-12-2011, 10:31 AM Reply   
By the way, i think I heard somewhere that O'Brien was done with as well, that might have been a rumor but that would be ironic
Old     (wakenymph)      Join Date: Mar 2011       05-12-2011, 10:47 AM Reply   
I think not taking Warranties into consideration when buying expensive items is silly. Unless you have an endless supply of funds (and i know i dont) warranties are no brainers! Maybe its the worrier in me that always thinks about what could happen but they are like insurance. You never think you need it until you need it!!!!
Old     (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       05-12-2011, 10:48 AM Reply   
At this point, yes the warranty issue matters immensely. But and even bigger issue for me when it comes to new companies is will the board hold up. I dont want to have to even deal with a warranty. Liquid force has been getting a lot of hate lately but in the end... they do make a quality product that holds up.
Old     (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Minnesnowda       05-12-2011, 10:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoopy1173 View Post
By the way, i think I heard somewhere that O'Brien was done with as well, that might have been a rumor but that would be ironic
Hahahahahaha. not the case. You guys bring up some really good points that I had not thought about. On top of everything mentioned, more competition is really good to drive inovation.
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-12-2011, 10:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Would you Buy (or did you) a Board from a Start Up Company
if i like their gear, absolutely. i used to ride core wakeboards. anyone remember them? how 'bout badass? the badass motorhead was one of my favorite boards of all time! with that said, i'm not going to ride a board from a start-up just for the sake of being different or obscure. and sure, it'd be great if the gear was made in the USA, but let's face it; i can't be screaming "USA MADE ONLY" posting from a computer made someplace else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snoopy1173 View Post
By the way, i think I heard somewhere that O'Brien was done with as well, that might have been a rumor but that would be ironic
i thought i saw their hq boarded-up a few months ago. maybe i should do a drive-by.
Old     (flydenrict)      Join Date: Nov 2009       05-12-2011, 10:53 AM Reply   
I was planning on buying a Company board this year to replace my 2008 slingshot set-up and here was my thought process: First year they came out I didn't see anything different than what slingshot had already. their boots looked identical. Their second year of products showed huge promise and improvemtns, especially their bindings. I remember seeing a video from surf expo(?) about their new baseplate/connection to the board that looked awesome, but I wanted to get another year out of my 2008 board. This lead me to belvie that their 2011 products would be improved and worth buying, but now thats not happening.

Long answer ultimately boiling down to the product itself. if it looks like a new innovative product that isn't offered by the big brands, then yes i'd be interested in a startup. the only thing is that it takes a year or two to really get going i.e. Company
Old     (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       05-12-2011, 11:01 AM Reply   
If I were going to buy something obscure from a small company it'd be a Phallanx. Ricky.... Get that ish on the market!!!

I guess every company starts somewhere, right? It's not easy to up and start a new brand. Handling warranty stuff should be job 1, but sometimes the resources just aren't there. I totally think it's cool that there are people out there riding obscure gear. I gave Collected Development a shot when they were around and I have a bunch of buddies that rode Funded boards.

Now, I'll stick with CWB. In 6 years on their boards I've yet to warranty anything. I like that.
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-12-2011, 11:08 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by guido View Post
Now, I'll stick with CWB.
kinda easy to say since you ride for them.
Old     (phalanxoperations)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-12-2011, 12:23 PM Reply   
I certainly hope people are at least open to the idea of purchasing from a a start up independent brand. I know we're counting on people like you to help with our endeavor.
Old     (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       05-12-2011, 12:58 PM Reply   
Ray.... You guys need to get things rolling. I had a guy standing at your booth this weekend at Spring Ride with cash in hand ready to buy. Let's see those boards on the water. Ricky is killing it on his. I"m hoping by next Spring Ride you'll be full blown, ready to sell.
Old     (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       05-12-2011, 12:59 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by guido View Post
I gave Collected Development a shot when they were around and I have a bunch of buddies that rode Funded boards.
i remember collective development. reminds me of Nice bindings too. I always thought it was interesting how there were these little binding specific companies. wouldn't they have been in for a surprise if they had survived till today. both had some interesting designs, especially Collective Development/ formerly Concrete.
Old     (mnwakerider)      Join Date: Jun 2004       05-12-2011, 1:33 PM Reply   
My first pair of legit bindings were Collective development. I still rock one of their T-shirts every once in a while. Brings back memories... That being said, they were pretty far ahead of their time in terms of lace up style boots. Nothing compared to todays standards, but the support on those was awesome. Just took 20 min to get laced up in the work boots...
I think it is good to see newer companies enter the market. it pushes everything forward. Hope to see more like this soon.
Old     (jealous_soul)      Join Date: Sep 2007       05-12-2011, 1:48 PM Reply   
I'll be getting a CTRL board this season...I never bother with warranties since all I do is ride cable, and the only company I know of that warranties a board that has hit sliders is O'Brien and the couple of boards they offer that one are not for me. I tend to attempt to support newer brands if I like what they come up with. I owned an SS, a Ronix, and a Company board each of their first years (at least I think it was their first).
Old     (Mindy)      Join Date: Apr 2011       05-12-2011, 3:15 PM Reply   
I would buy anything that I had a blast riding. I like the idea of supporting someone trying something new and innovative. I'd always rather give my hard earned money to a "family owned" business than a corporation, but in the end I'm going to buy what I have the most fun on. As far as warranties go, this is probably the unpopular opinion, but I have to say I think people are abusing them from what I hear/read. If a product is deffective or inadequately made, that is one thing, but if you ride the hell out of something and in some cases abuse the ***** out of it, there is a point when you got what you paid for. In the end it comes out of all of our pockets. This is an expensive game, that's for sure! If there is a one year no holds barred warranty and something breaks in that year, yeah, you'd be a fool not to get it replaced. But there are people all over these boards saying stuff like, I haven't paid for a board since '08, I've broke 20 boards and they just send me a new one, and getting pissed when they don't get free brand new replacements for things they have had lots of fun on already. So, no, lack of warranty isn't going to keep me from buying something rad, and I'm not going to buy somthing blahblah just because it has a warranty. I'm going to buy what I want and have as many good times as possible.
Old     (jelico)      Join Date: Jun 2010       05-12-2011, 4:51 PM Reply   
good thread.

With Company - no one expected it to be a fly-by-nighter. The team that was behind the brand (riders and management) has been around forever and has been behind some great innovations and progression in wakeboarding. I really honestly think any issues that they have had as a brand has been through bad luck rather than anything else.

CTRL will be around for a while I'm guessing. The team behind this brand is equally well qualified, and the product is really impressive.
Old     (boarderpat)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-12-2011, 8:14 PM Reply   
I bought Company stuff their second year in business after demoing the first years kit. When a board feels right it feels right, whatever the name on it says. The fact is I went out and landed every trick I have ever been able to do in one set (ok I'm no pro but that was an achievement for me!) the first time I rode a Company board, and that's never happened with any other board I've ridden. I have 2 Company boards and a pair of Vandall boots, I'll keep riding them until they break, then I'll see what's on the market at the time I guess!
Old     (neverwinter)      Join Date: Feb 2011       05-13-2011, 7:29 AM Reply   
As soon as I rode the humanoid oracle I instantly knew I didn't want to ever ride another board. I'll continue to support made in usa companies that don't sue and threaten companies to ensure they stay on top. There's a word for that, Oppression! Here's another word that fits just as well..anti-competitive Later Kent!
Old     (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Minnesnowda       05-13-2011, 8:06 AM Reply   
Ya'll Make some good points!
Old     (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       05-13-2011, 9:40 AM Reply   
though i said warranty is not too high a concern for me, i still darn well expect there to be a warranty attached to any board i buy new. I just don't imagine having to use, nor have i had to use a warranty really... (except for one case which i remember now which was replaced easily)... especially with how little use my gear gos through.
i cant even recall ever wishing i still had a warranty Past its due beyond simple DIY fixes on some boots. never really broken anything. My current brand choice (everyone knows is Slingshot) i have no concerns about either. durable quality.

With Slingshot, The flex thing intrigued me and made sense to me when it came out. i was pessimistic about a featureless bottom though at the time. luckily i was in college in Utah, living in a bigger town with more access to wakeboarding and was able to demo before i bought one. instantly i fell in love with it. found out i loved the featureless bottom (coming from that can-opener byerly says a lot), which changed my style of riding for the better... or rather help me discover what my style of riding was all along. demoed those boards multiple times till i got the $ to buy one.

2006-2007 was a banner year for me in Wake though. I Just started getting into Wakeworld and other media and diving into wakeboarding, the technology, history, etc. going beyond what wakeboarding had offered me on the weekends in the past, and maybe trying to offer something in return. I would not even have heard about slingshot if it were not for wakeworld and my whole transition into trying to get more involved.

I know that this little history tidbit is a little long and a bit tangential, but i think it is still relative, especially to point out that most people who get involved with indie brands are those who are more active in wakeboarding, beyond just hitting the lake every week. if you are not in the know, cruising the forums, reading the mags, or at least know someone who is... your not going to know about these start-ups until they become mature.

Start-ups i believe, thrive on communities Like this one. Having big names behind the brand helps a ton, like with Ronix and Company. Good advertizing too. Company got to a point that I think most everyone expected to be around for the long haul. like jamie barrow said, no one expected the fall they took.

Last edited by wakerider111; 05-13-2011 at 9:43 AM.
Old     (wazzy)      Join Date: Nov 2001       05-13-2011, 9:53 AM Reply   
>>If I were going to buy something obscure from a small company it'd be a Phallanx. Ricky.... Get that ish on the market!!!<< YEAH!! Some of us are chomping at the bit!!!!

BTW, I still rock some CD bindings.

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