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Old     (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       05-03-2011, 10:23 AM Reply   
This one is a freebie for any manufacture that decides to pick it up.... In the war for the loudest, best sounding tower speakers I'm surprised that nobody is bi-amping their HLCD's and using electronic crossovers for compensation/tuning. What's the deal? So much less loss and so much more control. Most guys that are running big systems are already running more than one amp to the tower. Why not? Has anybody done this with their system? I can't be the first person to think of this. It's basic PA stuff.

Open for discussion...
Old     (wakescene)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-03-2011, 10:31 AM Reply   
I see where your going man. Bi-Amplification allows the greatest control over the drivers for wattage, db/Octave sweep, gain control, and other fine tuning adjustments. I would guess that the manf's do it like this to reduce install issues, simplification, and can also control Freq cutoff points etc. I honestly thought the bigger guys (wetsounds for example) already had this option.
Old     (wetsounds1)      Join Date: Jan 2006       05-03-2011, 11:16 AM Reply   
Sorry for quick response, on my iPhone. We have built quite a few prototypes with bi amp ability but made the decision to not produce them because there is a lot of variables on tuning and amplification. So the install and tuning side would be more difficult as well as the need for more amp channels and preferably different power ratings to run mid bass drivers and horns.

We built the new Revolution series crossovers to provide amazing sound quality never seen before of any hlcd tower speaker and be easy to power and tune

Tim
Wet Sounds
Old     (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       05-03-2011, 1:04 PM Reply   
Hey Tim....

Thanks for the quick reply. Cool to hear that you guys are playing with this idea. How about a pair of speakers with a outboard crossover so you have the capability to run bi-amp? I'm sure they'd be popular out here with the monster stereo guys. It'd also give some versatility and up-gradeability for people to venture into after their initial installation. Obviously it requires a much greater degree of amplifier tuning and knowledge, but there are some pretty savvy people doing big installs lately.

FWIW.... I also think that idea of stereo on the tower is useless. IMO mixxed mono works awesome for this application. You could easily run one set of wires for the highs and one for the mid-bass.

I'm excited to hear the new Revolutions compared to our NVS'. We just proto'd some mounts to get them on our LSV for this year. It turned out very clean.
Old     (ian_ashton)      Join Date: Jul 2008       05-03-2011, 1:23 PM Reply   
I think that's the first time I've seen someone apologize for a quick response, lol!
Old     (wetsounds1)      Join Date: Jan 2006       05-03-2011, 2:13 PM Reply   
Haha, well I have been known to write a book!

Tim
Wet Sounds
Old     (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       05-03-2011, 5:32 PM Reply   
Bi-amping is essential at lower frequencies because of the cost of huge passive components not to mention the larger insertion losses of a passive network with huge inductors and so on. However, the insertion losses and cost benefits are minimized as you raise the frequency. Most of the prosound product that uses active crossovers between a midrange and tweeter apply to line arrays with multiple drivers operating in each segment. It would be more rare with singular components.
The other issue is that from a manufacturer perspective placing that much flexibility in the hands of a novice is a prescription for lots of blown tweeters. Who would qualify the qualified?
Having said that, I have always wanted to try it also...just to see if there would be a dynamic difference without ANY passive crossover components. Also, a pure active crossover nullifies the effects of driver resonance and non-linear impedance curves that bias the passive crossover and introduce distortion.
There are good arguements either way. I have a specific concept in mind that I have been wanting to try. Just no takers to date.
David
Earmark Marine
Old     (nvsairwarrior)      Join Date: Aug 2003       05-03-2011, 9:32 PM Reply   
I can chime in on this as the prototype that NVS built back in 03/04 I did Bi amp it. Yes it provides a larger amount of control but the two main factors already stated were realized as we started manufacturing; 1) Compression drivers are very easy to blow the diaphram, 2) although more shops are capable now but early on we had to educate a lot of people on the differences with true Pro Audio vs typical Car audio.
Passive xovers are relatively inexpensive and does insure the proper coupling of the transducers. Bi amping leaves the coupling the most difficult adjustment to make because most shops don't have the necessary electronic wave testing equipment or knowledge on how to use it.
In the end, assuming the manufacture did their job correctly, no adjustment should be needed if using a properly designed passive xover. Having said that, xover design is often an evolutionary process. I know that our early product was bright sounding just like others. Now however, we have the smoothest HLCD at any volume available.
Old     (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       05-04-2011, 10:37 AM Reply   
Duane... I do have to say that the set-ups we've had over the last couple years are a night/day difference from the original HLCD's. I remember the first gen speakers causing a very hostile listening environment in the boat. The Prodigy/Modus set-up last year was amazing. Very smooth and listenable all day at high volume. I'm really excited to hear what this years set-up will bring in the new boat.

You guys obviously know a lot more than I do, but having played with this stuff in the past it would seem much more effective (in the right hands) to electronically match DB output of horn loaded tweeters and PA mid-bass drivers than doing it passively. Not only would you limit power loss, but you wouldn't have to mess with the slope of the X-over. It would be a theoretical 100% cross at the determined frequency.

Obviously there would be tuning difficulties, but every time I've seen Ryan tuning our boat he's had a laptop out, so it's quite clear that mobile audio has become very sophisticated to the point of being very paralel to other PA set-ups. From a pure "volume making" perspective it would seem that we've yet to hit the ceiling.

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