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Old    BamaMojo            01-04-2016, 4:55 PM Reply   
I am going to pull the trigger on the power upgrade to run 8 in boat Wetsounds , two pair rev8's and the ws high output 12. I would love to buy two ws SD4's and one SD2 for the sub but I am having a hard time justifying the total cost of the amps. I can get new ARC audio amps that are rated the same power at 45 % of the cost of ws. Any and all input is appreciated from those that are using these would be appreciated.
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       01-04-2016, 5:02 PM Reply   
What Arc amp is rated 185 x 4 @ 4 ohm and 320 x 4 @ 2 ohm and 685 x 2 @ 4 ohm?

For the money, an SD-2 for two pair of Rev-8's is the way to go over an SD-4.
Old     (dp513)      Join Date: Jul 2011       01-04-2016, 5:16 PM Reply   
Arc all the way. 600.2 will power all the tower speaks. and 2 300.4s will run the interiors. I have all arc amps in my boat and truck.
Old     (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       01-04-2016, 5:17 PM Reply   
Love my arc amps .I run a ks 600.2 for four rev tens a ks 300.4 for six WS inboats and a ks 1000.1 to a jl 12w6v3 sub. Not quite as much power as the SD amps but still more than enough to make your ears blead.
Old     (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       01-04-2016, 7:42 PM Reply   
I sell both brands, and there's no way I'd ever sell an arc audio amp as an alternative to the sd amps. Maybe to syndicate, as their both designed by Robert Zef, but the sad thing is s in a class with of its own.
Old    BamaMojo            01-05-2016, 8:52 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonyb View Post
I sell both brands, and there's no way I'd ever sell an arc audio amp as an alternative to the sd amps. Maybe to syndicate, as their both designed by Robert Zef, but the sad thing is s in a class with of its own.

Sounds like I am going sinister series. Thanks for the input.
Old     (sandm01)      Join Date: May 2010       01-05-2016, 9:56 AM Reply   
wow harold. the only difference in our setups is the tower speakers. using icon8's instead of rev's as all we do is surf and didn't need the hlcd driver. otherwise all other equipment is the same.

great minds think alike
Old     (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       01-05-2016, 10:39 AM Reply   
How do you like the icons ?? Thinking about giving them a try on the next boat as all we do is surf as well. Everybody complains when sitting in the back of the boat that the revs are to loud.
Old     (sandm01)      Join Date: May 2010       01-05-2016, 3:38 PM Reply   
love them. they are pretty musical. def. not the output of the revs but not looking to be the loudest at the party cove. I do find out that for conversation, we fade most of the cabin speakers out and just use the icons. tige tower has them forward far enough that it's more than enough tunes for the boat. they are real clear for surfing and seem to sound good with any music.
I listened to the revs before buying and they, like most hlcd's to me, seemed to be too "bright" and metallic for my taste. now if I was a boarder, I would have them instead as I'm not sure you could even begin to hear the icon's at 70ft and across the wake.
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       01-05-2016, 5:45 PM Reply   
From a power standpoint, the Arc KS600.2 is in line with the Wet sounds SD-2 for 2 pair of HLCDs. Arc does not have a 4 chnl that would be inline with the wattage of an SD-4 though, but the KS300.4 is a solid choice for an in-boat like the XS-650

The real difference between the two is pretty clear. The marine built SD series are:
Class-D v's Class-A/H. Not a huge difference in real world battery consumption when comparing wattage to wattage, but worth noting.
Sealed marine amp with conformal coated PC v's an uncoated PC with a cooling fan circulating humid air across it.
Old     (sandm01)      Join Date: May 2010       01-06-2016, 4:57 AM Reply   
I think everyone gets the marine difference in wetsounds and can either agree it's worth it nor not. personal choice and lots in either camp. out east where it's humid it makes sense. out west where humidity rarely approaches 20%, not a big deal.

in regards to arc specifically tho, I read up a lot prior to purchasing and all the information I ran across was that the class G/H(not A/H) arc amps have most all the benefits of class D in regards to heat dissipation/generation and all of the benefits of a class A/B from a musical standpoint. they are a more expensive amp board to produce than either A/B or D as the switching topology is different. general consensus I read was a slight loss in efficiency compared to class D but a more musical output akin to a class A/B design vs class D which, in the audio circles, appears to be a compromise trading some sound quality for much better efficiency and battery life/play time.
thoughts?
Old     (DavidAnalog)      Join Date: Sep 2013       01-06-2016, 7:37 AM Reply   
Thoughts? Sure.
Class D is definitely Hi Fi grade now. It's migrated into some very esoteric home stereo and AV, which is a hyper-critical category. However, like anything else and any other topology, all Class D is not made equal. There are a ton of platform Class D amplifiers that are grossly inferior to other options. Not just in their Class D topology, but in crappy internal crossover filters and cheap front ends. And on the flipside, there are a few Class D amplifiers that are excellent SQ, including JL Audio XD, HD, and Wetsounds SD.
As for Class H, it's a plain Class AB output board with a different power supply that tracks the audio signal far more critically than the typical pulse width power supply, thus yielding much higher efficiency than Class AB. But going forward, you won't see manufacturers investing in new Class H models because Class D has become so evolved.
Class AB is basically a Band-Aid for the flaws of Class B, using high bias to eliminate the inherent notch distortion. And that high bias wastes a lot of energy.
There is no amplifier topology without flaw. The individual execution of this or that topology makes all the difference.
The Arc Audio Class H offers a good power per dollar value. Much of this is due to savings in construction. The parts and construction used are very good, however, it's far less costly to eliminate heavy heat sink mass and replace it with a fan.
In the case of marine amplifiers, the Wetsounds offers a closed chassis with a gasketed cover plate over the controls, just like JL Audio XD & HD marine versions. Moisture has no internal access. In contrast, with a fan-cooled amplifier, you are continuously pouring damp air over charged circuitry. So in some areas conformal coating becomes essential, and in coastal communities an open chassis fan-cooled amplifier, even a coated one, is absolutely unacceptable.
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       01-06-2016, 9:15 AM Reply   
If someone is asking to justify the cost difference between a marine built and non marine built amp, how you can not bring this very difference into the discussion? I wouldnt assume everyone knows the differences. As far as humidity goes. Yes, out west im sure the low ambient humidity plays little part, but toss a couple damp towels and jackets into the 110* closed locker and i'll bet it gets humid in there fast.
Old     (DavidAnalog)      Join Date: Sep 2013       01-06-2016, 9:54 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chpthril View Post
If someone is asking to justify the cost difference between a marine built and non marine built amp, how you can not bring this very difference into the discussion? I wouldnt assume everyone knows the differences. As far as humidity goes. Yes, out west im sure the low ambient humidity plays little part, but toss a couple damp towels and jackets into the 110* closed locker and i'll bet it gets humid in there fast.
Yeah, try 140+ degrees with damp storage items inside the locker in an otherwise dry N. Texas during July/Aug.
Or, with some water remaining in the bilge and stored under a cover. The morning sweat all over the electronics and the afternoon sauna in the locker is brutal.
Old     (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       01-06-2016, 10:08 AM Reply   
Texas is not west coast LOL I have been running Arc amps in my boats sense 09 without one problem. Wet gear goes In the rear lockers not the observer compartment. Not trying to take away from WS as I love their gear but I could never justify the extra$$$ for a sd amp with little power gain over the 600.2 for tower speakers.
Old     (sandm01)      Join Date: May 2010       01-07-2016, 5:00 AM Reply   
I'm with harold, as are several buddies that have old bayliners that have been running traditional non-marine audio for 20+ years. I had fosgate auto amps in my supra from 07 to 12 with not a single problem in idaho and arc starting in 12 to current.

wetsounds makes a great product and a buddy just installed an sd6. the amp was beautiful and can't wait to hear it power his tower, but in some parts of the country, the humidity in david/chp's car trunks amounts to more than someone would ever see in a marine environment.

I actually had a bet with David as I installed a WS competitor's "eq" into my tige in '12. he indicated that it would not last a season due to the lack of coated boards. 4 seasons and still running strong.

if you take care of your gear, it'll last.
Old     (DavidAnalog)      Join Date: Sep 2013       01-07-2016, 7:21 AM Reply   
When I was in the industry and over a 15 year period in marine audio, we sold and installed about half and half marine and automotive electronics in boats. We offered both and accepted the risk along with the consumer. Why? Lower cost and wider selection in automotive amplifiers. Over a five year span in N. Texas the automotive gear did okay. Fan-cooled automotive gear didn't do quite as well over a five year period.
So I have never given an absolute "Don't do it" when it comes to using automotive electronics in a boat....unless it is for coastal use....and then it's not debatable.
If asked is there a difference, and opinions were invited? Heck yes. I have thousands of samples to reflect on, and not just a few boats. "Must" you make the extra investment for marine amplifiers on inland waters? No. Strictly your call.
It also must be said that just because a product is white and has a marine designation, that doesn't mean that the manufacturer made any beneficial changes beyond powder coating and silk screening. So all 'marine' is not equal.
There are many reasons why various brands of EQs would eventually fail in a boat beyond conformal coating, such as open pots and non-strain-relieved RCA jacks. In one case, the collective failures eventually were so great that the marine vendor had to ditch their construction and actually copy the Wetsounds construction.
It's been my experience that most owners don't realize that corrosion is degrading sound quality until they hear a foreign noise or the equipment finally fails. If you have a white powdery residue on the electronics, it has an impact even if the product is still working.
Old     (murphy_smith)      Join Date: Dec 2005       01-07-2016, 2:00 PM Reply   
I'm making the move from Arc to Wet Sounds this season. Posted some brand new Arc Amps at really low prices in the classifieds section!

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