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Old     (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       04-24-2008, 8:41 PM Reply   
With the cost of gas projected to be $7/gallon in 2012 due to industrialization of India and China, where do you think wakeboarding is going? Pros will still be able to ride because boat companies need the publicity and will buy the gas, but the average guys will be struggling to pay for gas especially with the cost of living expected to go up. I definately see a lot more cable parks being built and cable riding becoming the main portion of the sport.

(Message edited by malibuboarder75 on April 24, 2008)
Old     (wakemitch)      Join Date: Jun 2005       04-24-2008, 8:51 PM Reply   
wakeskating.

cheaper equipment. no huge boats needed. can be done in almost any body of water. more winch possibilities becuase you can do more then 2 tricks on rails. wakeskating has been growing none stop since it started and there is no sign of plateauing any time soon.

Wakeskating.
Old     (wakemitch)      Join Date: Jun 2005       04-24-2008, 8:53 PM Reply   
by the way am im hating on wakeboarding at all. i love the sport and the community. i just think think wakeskating has huge potential especially in times when money is tight.

(Message edited by wakemitch on April 24, 2008)
Old     (dlwsrider)      Join Date: Apr 2007       04-24-2008, 9:01 PM Reply   
Seriously, Pulling out the PWC and hitting up rails will look alot more appealing.
Old     (pvsawyer)      Join Date: Mar 2008       04-24-2008, 9:02 PM Reply   
See this thread:
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/1/572074.html?1209096036
Old     (noti_dad)      Join Date: Jul 2003       04-24-2008, 9:06 PM Reply   
$7 a gal will mean less people on the water and better conditions. I may not go as often as 3-4 times a week but I'll still be out on it.
Old     (pvsawyer)      Join Date: Mar 2008       04-24-2008, 9:06 PM Reply   
Look at the bottom about cable parks. Food for thought.
Old    nwwakerider            04-24-2008, 9:15 PM Reply   
i would pay $7/ gallon tomorrow if it kept 85% of the people off my lake
Old     (deltaridah)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-24-2008, 9:23 PM Reply   
i guess thats another plus for the delta we dont have to worry and hate on other people out riding too. Theres butter everywere for everyone to enjoy. I actually like seing other boats and riders out there.

Cable parks is one way wakeskating is def another

maybe i shouldnt get buy my new x star at 7 bucks a gallon thats all bad
Old     (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       04-24-2008, 9:26 PM Reply   
Erik, $7/gallon for your boat isnt the problem. It is the fact that $7/gallon will also raise all of your other expenses. I would still ride behind our boat if gas was $7/gallon, but I don't think I would be riding 3-4 times per week. Probably more like 2-3 times per week. And I might not ride during the cold months unless gas was cheaper.
Old     (wakemitch)      Join Date: Jun 2005       04-24-2008, 9:39 PM Reply   
I would still ride behind a boat for 7/gallon. its what i love and basically the only thing i do and ill just have to budget it.

like i said, i think wakeskating will keep increasing with popularity, but cable wakeboarding will take off like in europe. also more wakeboarders will start winching as well. if you havent seen justin fisher and kyle murphy's part in homeless you need to. i didnt know what to expect but i was so pumped on the part.

if you love the sport you will keep doing it. those that dont care as much will not come to the lake as often or else find other hobbies. for a lot of us on this site wakeboarding/skating/surfing is not a hobbie, its a part of our lives.
Old     (nuckledragger)      Join Date: Jun 2004       04-24-2008, 9:47 PM Reply   
Here is another question for you regarding "Where is wakeboarding going?":

The is an increasing focus on companies and consumers to be aware of their carbon footprint and what they can do to reduce it. What direction do you think the boat manufacturers will head in terms of trying to find alternative sources of power?
Old     (mox369)      Join Date: Jan 2008       04-24-2008, 10:09 PM Reply   
If gas will be at $7.00, there will be a bit of inflation and we will have higher wages to account for a bit of it. but that will still suck
Old     (brodie_chaboya)      Join Date: Apr 2006       04-24-2008, 10:25 PM Reply   
Electric boats are out now, not sure if available to the public yet. Epic is doing it and I'm sure all the other companies are too.
Old     (jgmaher)      Join Date: Oct 2007       04-24-2008, 10:37 PM Reply   
Good topic for discussion. I was thinking of the "future" of ridin the other day. With gas and all else considered.. I think cable parks are going to be the future. Think about it.. anyone can get a membership or just pay for the day without buying a $40,000+ boat or finding a buddy that will take you out consistently. It makes sense, considering this is perhaps the reason snowboarding is SOOO much bigger than wakeboarding. everyone can do it... or at least try it for a relatively affordable price. Cable parks can provide that same service. They're essentially 'wakeboard resorts.' Plus, you can get really creative with sliders, kickers, boxes, etc - more so than with just a nice wake. There are people in Florida and in some European countries that KILL IT in cableparks but have never even rode a wake. I think that cable riding is the future of wakeboarding, but only if enough of them are built to progress the sport in that direction. Thoughts???
Old     (kampus96)      Join Date: Oct 2005       04-25-2008, 1:20 AM Reply   
wakeskating.
Old     (mkrueger313)      Join Date: Jan 2007       04-25-2008, 1:23 AM Reply   
just charge it to the game...
Old     (pvsawyer)      Join Date: Mar 2008       04-25-2008, 5:09 AM Reply   
James:

By Louise (pvsawyer) on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 4:20 pm: Edit Post Delete Post
It is very disheartening. Our economy is poor, our dollar is inflated, and gas prices are crazy.
This is why I predict more and more cables will be built throughout the States. As the price of gas rises, cable riding will become much more economical for people....I honestly would not be able to afford to wakeboard as much as I do if I didn't live near a cable park.

By jason callen (westsidarider) on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 6:04 pm: Edit Post Delete Post
the only problem with the cables is they run off generators which run off of gas, so the price to ride the cable will increase as well.

By Louise (pvsawyer) on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 3:11 pm: Edit Post Delete Post
Actually Jason, I believe you've been misinformed. All cables run from an electric motor which is usually powered by power lines. In rare instances where power lines are not available (like third world countries), cables run off generators. Most cables are powered the same way most houses receive energy- via power lines. Soooo.... ultimately I do not believe rising gas prices will affect cable prices...at least not here in the states.

By WakeViolater (wakeviolater) on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 4:10 pm: Edit Post Delete Post
Louise...the increasing cost of oil has a direct affect on energy costs. Check the last few months of your gas and electric bills for your house. You will probably see electricity is going up...along with your gas prices. Electricity is made many ways (hydro, nuclear, coal, re-newable, natural gas, etc.), but as oil goes up...so does electricity.

By Ben C (dadthedriver) on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 7:00 pm: Edit Post Delete Post
A cable system is very energy efficient to operate. it takes 10 Kw an hour for a cable to run. A Household dryer takes 5 KW an hour so it is not that bad at all. Build more Nuke plants ban coal fired plants and global warming would go away. Coal fired power plants emit 40% of total U.S. carbon dioxide pollution

By Louise (pvsawyer) on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 9:00 pm: Edit Post Delete Post
Yeah, I'm pretty sure overall, cable systems are not getting hit as hard in regards to gas and oil prices. The Texas Ski Ranch's membership prices have stayed the same over the past two years (since I've been riding there) despite rising oil costs (knock on wood!). However, the point is, with the state of our economy and the inflated dollar, everything is generally getting more expensive.

I wonder, is this why there are tons of cable parks in Europe? Germany has 50 something cable parks! I hear gas is much more expensive over there. Hmmmm....or perhaps there just aren't as many lakes to take the boat into? I really don't know. Interesting though.

By WakeViolater (wakeviolater) on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 10:20 pm: Edit Post Delete Post
europe also has a ton of nuke plants for electricity. costs of enery (and every thing else) will go up as oil goes up. so much stuff is made from oil byproducts. boats (fiberglass and plastic) boards (foam and plastic) clothes(synthetics), food (gas for the tractors)...the list goes on and on.

in a few years our sport..in the USA...will be done more and more on cables...imagine a cable operated by PV..
Old     (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       04-25-2008, 5:27 AM Reply   
Moxilla, not everyone will have higher wages. Lots of companies are outsourcing, this is a global economy now. Companies can pay people in India and China 1/5th the price of what they are paying americans, and the results are usually better. Either a lot of people will be out of jobs, or will have to find markets that require proximity.
Old     (02wakesettervlx)      Join Date: Jun 2001       04-25-2008, 5:40 AM Reply   
Our government is at fault here. Outsourcing is why other countries can compete with us. Screw China and India. We should embargo both contries. China's economy is driven by us. We pull the plug on them, they stop progressing as quickly, and their demand for oil, and other natural resources drops.

I have to disagree that the results are better with outsourcing. Ever call tech support and get someone who you can barely understand on the other end? A lot of companies that I do buisiness with are returning their call centers to the US, which I think is great. Remember all of the toy recalls last year? They were all from China. Better results, I think not. Like I said, it's time we take care of our own.

I am stubborn, and I will still ride with $7/gal gas, but I will complain about it.
Old     (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       04-25-2008, 5:51 AM Reply   
True Shawn, but people in India and China are all taking classes not to learn english, but to learn our accent. We are definately at fault as a society.

Here is a nice fact, if Wal-mart was considered a world economy, they would be China's 8th largest exporter.

I definately see Cable becoming the norm for wakeboarding. When you look at it, it is actually cheaper than snowboarding and you can do it year round in the southern states. A cable can operate all day long for about $15 in power. If energy prices double, it would still be a lot cheaper than a boat.
Old     (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       04-25-2008, 6:12 AM Reply   
Just pick up kiteboarding. Seems like there are always more blown out days than there are butter days on most lakes. Smooth water is nice, but you dont need it like you do wakeboarding. It all packs up in a golf bag and goes anywhere in the world with you. Wind is free.

http://www.aaronhadlow.com/wp-content/uploads/2008_vids/DS.mov
Old     (tversetti)      Join Date: Jan 2008       04-25-2008, 6:32 AM Reply   
Jason G, everything he did looks the same to me.
Needs quite a bit of room I'd say too....

still looks fun though.
Old     (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       04-25-2008, 6:45 AM Reply   
Well, you need "some" room, but not an unrealistic amount. As you become more familiar with wakeboarding moves, you will be able to see the different maneuvers more clearly. Plus the camera is stationary, so all the tricks are thrown in the same spot for the camera...makes every trick look similar. The point of posting it was to show how much like wakeboarding and cable riding kiteboarding is. Very good alternative to rising fuel costs.
Old     (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       04-25-2008, 6:56 AM Reply   
I will definately be picking up kiteboarding too. Any suggestions on a cheap way to get into kiteboarding?
Old     (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       04-25-2008, 7:30 AM Reply   
Myself too. Part of it is fuel costs, other is tired of always finding a third. Can some experienced kiteboarders point us in the direction of an affordable, yet updated technology and hi-tech gear that you can learn on and then advance with? I know there's different kites for different winds, and obviously i'm going to need that harness that allows for my 1080 S-bend, but where and how do I get that and still put some gas in my boat this summer?
Old     (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       04-25-2008, 7:33 AM Reply   
Also, how is Kiteboarding on the shoulders. It looks like a lot of overhead stuff. I have a bad shoulder and was wondering if the harness is going to dislocate it a lot. I can do a lot of stuff on a wakeboard (most inverts, 360s, 540s, raleys) without hurting my shoulder. Do you think kiteboarding will be better or worse?
Old     (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       04-25-2008, 7:38 AM Reply   
prob be better and easier on it because the kite moves... just my assumption though.
Old     (iluvrussell)      Join Date: Sep 2007       04-25-2008, 7:53 AM Reply   
if they make boats with electric motors then we can put lots of car batterys in the back lockers. more weight yeah!
Old     (mox369)      Join Date: Jan 2008       04-25-2008, 7:56 AM Reply   
Leo, your shoulder will be fine, when kiting, your handles is usually between nipple and chin height, most of the pull will go into your harness around your midsection rather than your arms anyway. I havent ever kited on the water, but i snow kite with a snowboard
Old     (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       04-25-2008, 7:59 AM Reply   
Thanks Moxilla,

I thought that the harness would absorb most of the pull. Maybe this summer I will pick up a kiteboard and go try it out. All my friends are in college anyway, so my only other rider is my girlfriend. I figure a kiteboard kite and harness would be the cost of about 30-40 sets behind the boat.
Old     (iluvrussell)      Join Date: Sep 2007       04-25-2008, 8:11 AM Reply   
i was backcountry riding in utah this spring and saw someone snow kiting. probably the coolest thing ive ever seen! dude just dropped off a cornice and literally flew down the mountain! so cool
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-25-2008, 8:17 AM Reply   
Wakeboarding is going straight to the top...

company wake has some new boats coming out that run off solar/hydro power....really exciting things.
Old     (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       04-25-2008, 8:20 AM Reply   
What about the nuclear reactor that is going to split water up into hydrogen and oxygen. The hydrogen will then be used to power the engine. The oxygen will be pumped into the wake to create softer landings.
Old     (sinkoumn)      Join Date: Jan 2007       04-25-2008, 8:21 AM Reply   
the trick is to get a job with a company that pays for your monthly gas expenses
Old     (lostkgb78)      Join Date: Oct 2005       04-25-2008, 8:44 AM Reply   
I have to agree with Jason G

Kiting is the green alternative and is fun as hell!
Old     (romes)      Join Date: Sep 2006       04-25-2008, 9:07 AM Reply   
Snowkite??? Now that just sounds way way rad. I wanna try that. Where can that be done at? What you do just run and jump off a cornice?
Old     (tuneman)      Join Date: Mar 2002       04-25-2008, 9:18 AM Reply   
This whole carbon footprint is a bunch of crap! Don't buy into it. It's the tree huggers and Sierra Club members and politicians that have raised these outrageous prices for us.

There is absolutely no reason why we should be paying $4 a gallon for gas! We have vast reserves of the stuff in our back yard. Anwar, likely has enough oil to supply the US for hundreds of years. Anwar is on US soil and is a frozen tundra. There's nothing there! But the tree huggers and politicians won't let us at it.

Oil and gas is the most efficient, by far, form of energy that we have for vehicles. So, why cant we continue to use it? All the alternatives, ethanol, battery, hydrogen, solar, wind, are super INefficient. Why are we trying to use these? Oh yeah, it buys votes.

Global warming....if you buy into this, you're a sucker. It doesn't exist, period. The growth rate of the ice in the Antartica has reached an all time high this year. Has the press told you about that? It's true. Has it been unusually cold where you live this year? That's not global warming in my book. We cannot affect the climate like the press and politicians think we can.

Don't buy into the farse. Get out and vote to drill in Anwar and elsewhere, vote for Nuclear Power.

By the way, nuclear power is our cleanest form of energy. Did you know there are several nuclear reactors right in the San Diego Bay, around millions of people? Nobody puts up a fuss about those. They're on out aircraft carriers and submarines and they're completely safe. We don't build reactors like Chernobyl!! It's impossible to melt a reactor with todays technology. And the technology is so advanced that the USS Ronald Reagan has two reactors that require ZERO maintenance for 40 YEARS. How's that for technology.

Sorry for the long rant, but I'm pissed about this whole economy thing. Obama says we need to change America. America DOES NOT need to change!! Our government needs to change!
Old     (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       04-25-2008, 9:34 AM Reply   
Here is how recommend getting into kiteboarding:

1. Buy a trainer kite. This can be found for $50-$100. it will show you how to fly power kites without killing yourself. Get good on it. Use it with your skateboard in a parking lot. its really fun to play with.

2. If possible, take a lesson. This is good because it is safe and fun, and you will progress extremely fast. (I didnt take any lessons and it took me alot of time reading and tons of trial and eror to figure everything out.)

3. Buy some used gear. kites can be found for $100-$300 on the used market. You will thrash your first kites so dont get really nice stuff to learn on.

4. Like wakeboarding, get on the water and take your lumps learning.


With kiteboarding, you can make it as intense on your body as you like, or as easy on your body as you like. If you are unhooking from the harness and doing wakeboard tricks, you will have the same joint impact as wakeboarding has. However, if you arent feeling like a beating on a particular day, you can stay hooked in to the harness and use the kite to buffer landings.


Generally when riding, you are hooked into a harness thats around your waist. While riding around like this, there is no real pull on your arms. it pulls from your hips,and your arms are just controlling the kite. When you want to do a wakeboarding trick, you unhook from the harness, and now the pull is on your arms like when wakeboarding or riding the cable. Throw your trick and hook back in.
Old     (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       04-25-2008, 10:11 AM Reply   
any recommendations on trainer kites?
Old     (iluvrussell)      Join Date: Sep 2007       04-25-2008, 10:39 AM Reply   
hey jr, the guy was snoboarding down a small hill on top of a 10,000ft mountain outside of the canyons in utah, then aired off the cornice and pulled the chute. he flew down about athousand feet and landed and kept riding. hit another jump and got like a twenty second hang time, then landed. i think it would be the most fun thing ever!
Old     (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       04-25-2008, 11:29 AM Reply   
Slingshot, LiquidForce, and Best all sell trainers. 2m trainers will teach you to fly, but if you really want the power to get going on a skateboard or mountainboard, get a 3m.

http://www.bestkiteboarding.com/TrainerKite;jsessionid=0a01074d1f43616e6c0dfe80432 abd9aca6277f6fd71.e3eTaxaQbxmTe34Pa38Ta3aKaxb0
Old     (jetpilotz)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-25-2008, 1:28 PM Reply   
I'll answer your question with another question.
If the price of cigarettes doubled, would smokers stop buying cigarettes?
Old     (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       04-25-2008, 1:40 PM Reply   
I'm excited about more cable parks. You have the capability to do a lot of tricks that aren't possible behind a boat and go way bigger, but at the same time nothing beats drinking beer on a boat with your friends.
Upload
Old     (pvsawyer)      Join Date: Mar 2008       04-25-2008, 2:47 PM Reply   
Wow that's huge. What cable park is that....and who is that?
Old     (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       04-25-2008, 3:24 PM Reply   
That's Rob Mapp at ski rixen. He's doing an indian air.

I'll be out tomorrow if you're riding Louise...
Old     (outlaw_78)      Join Date: Nov 2006       04-26-2008, 6:46 AM Reply   
cable boarding is not the same, there is no wake so its note 'wake'boarding, u are just riding the cable on your wakeboard
Old     (reinle)      Join Date: Sep 2005       04-26-2008, 10:31 AM Reply   
OK guys... here is my economic point of view (ive been studying economics for about 4 years now.)

Mozilla- you are correct, inflation will drive up wages with time. but a healthy economy usually wants to keep inflation rates around 2 or 3 percent annually. There is no way a healthy amount of annual inflation will be able to keep up with gas prices that high. Also, there is a time lag between inflation and the raising of labor prices. Inflation causes the cost of living to increase over time, and it is the responses of the industries hiring workers to justify their wages payable to counteract the higher standard of living. You can see how that can be a long process.

As for everyone else with the outsourcing of jobs. This is purely an economic standpoint, not my own opinion. I just feel like there is some very bold judgment being thrown around, and I would like to at least explain the values of outsourcing jobs... When two countries trade (whether it be goods, services or jobs), each country tries to specialize in the production of the product that they have a lower marginal cost to produce. When these two countries specialize, the production levels for that product tends to increase exponentially. Once specialization and trade occurs, both countries benefit by receiving more of each good that is traded than if each country could produce by themselves (hopefully this makes sense...sorry im in a rush and this is kind of hard to explain without graphs). So, the outsourcing of jobs allow both countries to receive products at a lower cost, saving us large sums of money. The problem arises when the workers and supporters of the industry that is being outsourced gets laid off, and their families incomes decline. The monetary benefits of outsourcing and specialization is shared with all citizens of the country, while the downfall of the outsourcing is felt by a specific group. Obviously, that specific group that is hurt tremendously is going to be willing to pay money for lobby groups, lawyers, etc. to keep jobs in America, while the benefits of the outsourcing is spread so thin throughout the entire population that it doesnt seem worth the effort for most people to support the outsourcing of jobs.

once again, this is just a different point of view...im not trying to insult anyone elses beliefs of opinions. Ive simply been taught to think from an economic standpoint on issues like these
Old     (pvsawyer)      Join Date: Mar 2008       04-26-2008, 10:33 AM Reply   
Yeah, you're right, it's not exactly the same, but it' s still fun as hell! You can do air tricks right off the flat water and go huge (by edging hard and releasing the tension out of the water). You can do the same kinds of tricks- backrolls, raleys, front flips, S- bends. I see guys out there doing double S-bends to blind! You can also do all kinds of toeside air tricks too. There's also lots of fun obstacles to hit! It's a great alternative for those of us who are too poor to own a boat. Alot of people don't realize that you can do all the same tricks right off of flat water and go HUGE.
Old     (lostkgb78)      Join Date: Oct 2005       04-26-2008, 11:00 AM Reply   
I guess I'm a sucker then Tuneman.
Old     (lives2wake)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-26-2008, 12:37 PM Reply   
Tuneman's message has been provided by the Oil and gas companies.

Cable and kite...nice to see the support and the vision.


(Message edited by lives2wake on April 26, 2008)
Old     (nevada_champ)      Join Date: Nov 2007       04-27-2008, 8:43 AM Reply   
cable parks i guess? i dont ride a lot anyway like 1 or 2 a week but i think cable parks are gonna hold up the sport quite a bit until people can start figuring out wut to do
Old     (georgi)      Join Date: Apr 2006       04-27-2008, 10:18 AM Reply   
That is easy... High gas prices is something we are dealing with for years and years here in Europe. Let me see... the prices for 1 liter 95 unleaded in EU is between 1 and 1.2 Euro, which in current rates is... you are talking about $7/gallon in 2012??! Well we have it now, baby!!! And I am not even talking about the taxes for having 6 liter boat or car! That is why (if you ever thought about it) we drive cars with 1.4 to 2.0 liter gasoline or diesel engines, that most of you will laugh at. Its not because we like it, I personally would be glad driving one of those 6.5 liter monster pickups, its because of the prices and taxes. Not mentioning that it would take place for two regular cars at the parking. You have no issues like that. Well, until now maybe. So where will wakeboarding go? Definitely at the cablepark. Not entirely, but mainly. As was said, it is cheaper, it is cleaner, it is NOT less fun. There is nothing missing at the cable park from what you got with the boat. Not mentioning the large crowd of people being there just for few beers and a nice swim in the nearby pool. Not mentioning the meals just at the dock. Not mentioning the locker you put your stuff in and go home with just a backpack with you. Find a good place, build a cablepark (you could also build a winch park and a boat lake if you want, but the cablepark would be the center of it anyway) and you don't need to be worrying for your investment anymore.

(Message edited by georgi on April 27, 2008)
Old     (clay_fraley)      Join Date: Jul 2006       04-28-2008, 4:01 PM Reply   
Personally, I love cable, and would be stoked for more to pop up around the US and the world for that matter, but wake riding is where it all started. and it should be the main part of wakeboarding for as long as it is alive. Im not saying theres anything wrong with cable, I guess its just more of a personal preference, but If I had to chose between cable or boat every day, I would chose boat for sure. even with the prices

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