fs oa 3

started today on my conquest to learn this trick for the summer. it felt pretty good. i think the board was rising to high. i had no problems getting the board back behind me however the handle pass was not even possible today. i came close to landing a couple ole but this isnt my goal. i think i need to concentrate on the pause of the wake after the board gets behind me and getting the handle to the small of my back. comments are welcome but this is more just an online account for my progress.

I had similar troubles learning this trick...it always felt like the board was getting too off-axis and I could'nt ever get the handle pass, yet I was rotating around to a 5 almost every time. The big key for learning these and OA 540's for me was to come in a little crouched on a medium edge and let it float out while keeping both hands on the handle. Then, as the board floats away, before it gets too far out there, jerk the handle in hard with both hands. From there it was simple.. Just really reall focus on that handle pull. Best of luck to ya! Keep us posted on your progress!

tried a couple yesterday still getting too off axis. still doing the ole 3 to face plant. didnt focus on the handle pull though will give it a shot next time.
still devoting much of my riding time to getting my old tricks back.

thanks chad.

rode tonight. landed about 6-8 o/a 180s. felt pretty cool. started with the wake to wake "butt out" raley. very easy to do those. then progressed to the 180. still not consistent. focused on getting the board out behind me, just letting it drift then ripping it back down. when done correctly pretty easy to do as well.

rode today.. landed a couple right off the bat. then had trouble letting the board get out behind me. finished my set landing a couple more tho. focused on pointing the board away on the take off and then ripping it in before it gets to far behind me. when it gets to far behind me i always land on my heels and slide out. hopefully i can get these dialed in the next couple of weeks and then move to the 3.

from an email i sent explaining the trick. i thought was a decent description.

hey sorry i didnt get back to you a little sooner. i stomped a bunch of off axis 180s this weekend. i havent moved on to the 3 but i will once i have the 180s pretty dialed. i can see that after the 180s are dialed the 3 shouldnt be that big of a deal. anyway heres what i did to learn the o/a 180. i tried a few "butt out" wake to wake raleys. basically a wake to wake raley where you dont extend the board out all the way. in fact it doesnt even get over your head. just enough to get the feeling of letting the board out behind you. these are super easy and you should have any problem with them. from there i went into the 180. i take a little bit larger approach into the wake for the o/a 180s than i do for any of my other spins.(just to let you know i spin wake to wake and come in on a seated approach so there is minimal line tension on the rope). when i am riding up the wake i edge the board slightly away. just a little more away than a normal wake jump. then i just let the board drift out behind me. i did a few of these with two hands on the handle to help pull the board back under me then released the rear hand once the board was under me. for these unlike a regular 180 i dont look to the shore. i look down at my landing pretty much the whole time. grabbing melan is super easy youll find with these. i think its easier to grab than not to grab. my important thing is to try not to let the board just fly out behind me to far.keep your knees bent to so the board doesnt get uncontrollable. when it does fly out to far i can get the board back underneath me however i land on my heels and slide out on my butt. in summary.

1. try a couple of wake to wake raleys where the board doesnt extend out(as retarded as the sound and look i think the helps you learn board/axis control)

2. take a little larger approach into the wake than you would for a normal 3 but dont take a harder cut.

3. edge the board way from the boat more than you would a wake jump but nothing drastic

4. let the board drift out slowly behind you keep your knees bent to help with control, spot your landing

5. rip it back under you before it gets to far behind you and out of control

landed about 3 good o/a 180s tonight. did about 50 mute grabbed 180's. had difficulty letting the board out behind me. tried one o/a 3. overrotated and didnt get very o/a.

to keep your axis on your 3 make sure your shoulders stay flat..dont dip one shoulder to pass it or you will go off axis..pop..pull..pass

You guys are defintely attacking the trick correctly by starting with the 180 version of the trick. One thing that hasn't been mentioned much here is trying the trick on the trampoline. If you have access to one, it makes it much easier to learn this trick.

Alan and Chad...
The higher you get your board off axis, the harder it is to get the handle pass. Most likely you are doing more of a back-roll style off axis spin, which usually isn't desired. Another good indication of this is that you are spinning to 540. Try this... Instead of initiating your rotation for the spin off of the wake, try just doing the o/a 180. Once you are at the peak of the 180, now initiate the rest of your spin when bringing your board down by using the handle to make you spin. So basically take off like you are doing a 180, and then in mid air, use the handle to spin you the next 180. It is kindof a 2-part trick. Once you get comfy with the trick, you won't need to break it down like this anymore, but for now I would recommend the 2-step method. Hope this helps.


(Message edited by Mike McLin on June 11, 2006)

wholly crap, thanks mike. you have idea how many hours i have spent with you and kurt on the book. for whatever reason i just relate better to you two. thanks for the further explanation. i checked all four coaches(on the book) on this trick and no one mentioned whether this was basically two tricks(like the ts 3) or a single movement. so knowing that its two movements i have a much better perspective on how to attack the trick. again THANKS and thanks for the book you have no idea how much my riding has improved due to you guys' instruction

matt thanks for the tip however i think youre referring to an on axis three which thankfully ive got nailed.

notes from tonight and monday-- tendonitis in left arm made the bringing the 180 back down difficult. landed about 3 o/a 180s but didnt pursue the 3 due to the arm. had a mental block on letting the board drift out behind me for the majority of the other attempts that were problematic.

Alan,

Thanks for updating us on your progress. I have been trying some o/a 180's recently and they are really fun! I've landed several so far by doing them two handed but haven't tried any grabbed or one handed yet. How should I make this transition? I don't whip the board back there very hard at all, but sometimes it's all you can do to get it back down with two hands much less one. Is there anything I need to do differently? Sometimes I guess I "throw" it too much and don't have a prayer to get it back so I just bail on my back which isn't too painful.

I need to get some video of myself, but I'm amazed on The Book how much the riders completely have their backs turned to the boat on the way down. I guess it is more of a natural movement to kinda go up and around, then doing it more like a krypt...up and then down on the same line. Ok, that is hard to explain but maybe you catch my drift.

Thanks for any tips. Grab right off the wake right? When do you let go with your rear hand?

hey jarret, sorry i dont really have an answer for you on making the transition to grabbing the board or doing them one handed. i believe they go hand in hand. once youre doing them one handed the grab will be there. for whatever reason when i do them the board is just there and grabbing it is super easy. i do know what you are saying about the guys on the book getting super tweaked almost perpendicular to the boat path and i am not there yet.

as far as trying to help heres what i do. i turn the board away from the boat. i bring up(bend) my lead knee as soon as i leave the wake. then at that point i go for the mute grab. after i get the grab i start to let the board drift out. i find that if i let it drift back to quickly i cant get the grab and have no chance of getting it back under me. basically for me the key to the trick is deciding when to pull it back in. if i pull it in to early i dont get off axis. if i pull it in to late i lose control of the trick and slide out on my heels. i started out like you with two hands but as soon as i landed a couple with both hands i just went for it with one hand and didnt worry about a grab at first. but as soon as you can do them one handed you'll see that the grab is really natural. remember to keep you knees in so there is less dead weight youre having to drag back under you and you should get it pretty quickly. when i do them correctly they dont require much effort.
with all that beng said i am not to consistent with my axis so im probably not giving the best advice. this is the main reason i havent made any serious attempts to learn the three. as soon as i get these nailed ill move on to the three. however the tendonitis i picked up from learning these is preventing me from being able to go out and try a bunch more to get them dialed. good luck let me know how it goes

Alan - Thanks for the feedback. You make a good point about keeping your knees more sucked up. I might be getting too extended sometimes making it more difficult to bring it back down. I might try a couple of more 2 handed and then start dropping my back hand and see how it goes.

I'll have to try some next weekend and maybe I can get some pictures of them to post up. Good luck and thanks again.

You guys have inspired me. I think this week I will be working on my off axis spins. I've been real close on HS OA 3 and even closer on TS OA 5's. A week of straight riding should fix this right up. Thanks folks, I'll let you know how it goes.

good luck keep us posted. id be interested in hearing your tips on both of the tricks.

Alan - Check out this picture of Chris. This is what I was talking about when I mentioned about guys having their backs turned so much to the boat in the air coming down from an o/a 180. I probably don't turn that much on the way down which was probably caused me to slide out on my heels sometimes. This probably isn't a big deal but just something I noticed.

By the way, I'm assuming from looking at this pic that it is an o/a 180 but I could be wrong!

i do believe that is an o/a 180. i dont get that turned either when doing the trick however i think that chris has let the board drift out and pulled it back under himself then turns his back away from the boat. hopefully someone that can do them like this will comment on how to get that position. i rotate more like 120 degrees whereas this photos shows a full 180 degrees. the last two times i have ridden i threw a couple and a have found that taking a larger cut has helped me get the board behind me. before i was just trying to go wake to wake. now i take a little more steam into the trick. im riding friday and hopefully the arm doesnt act up and ill be able to give the 3 a good working.
i did get my ts 5 back and that was the last trick i needed to land(from last year) before i felt good about moving on.

pretty bad day, tried to o/a 3s and got worked. o/a 180 wasnt working to well either so i left it alone. i did land an 911 on my first try so i guess it wasnt a total loss

gonna ride tomorrow. as long as arm isnt acting up ill try some more 180's

havent messed with the o/a 3 or 180 due to the tendonitis. i did land a couple of indy glides yesterday. still would like to get the board further back on the indy glide but was pretty happy. also tried a bunch of ts frontrolls. going on my 4th year trying these to no avail.

You can do Indy glides and 911's but can't do TS fronts?

haha dont ask me why it seems really stupid but no i cant. i fall short (underrotate) everytime. i landed just one 3 years ago but havent had any luck since then. there has to be something ridiculously simple with the ts front that i just dont get. ill get it in one of these days.

took two weeks off, arm seems to be healed up pretty good and hopefully i can start attacking the trick again.

Well, I was going to post up my o/a 180 attempts but we didn't get a camera out that day. Since then I haven't had one decent set under rideable water conditions in the last month. :-(

Hopefully soon and I'll post up.

jarret ill try to get a camera or video of my attempts too. i normally just ride with one other guy so photos are a bit of a pain. however i do have a video tracker thing so i can do a video.

With your o/a 180's are they hs or ts? That pic above looks like it is hs.

sean both of us are doing them hs.

Chris does a hs OA180 but he doesn't do them switch. I think that shot is the latter part of a bad batwing. Chris throws the batwing different from most people and when he doesn't get the board up right that's how it looks. If you look at this shot Jrod took you'll see what I'm talking about.



As far as the HS OA3 goes he learned them a long time ago and rarely throws them anymore as he seems to like the 180 or just taking it to a 5. There was one tip I have heard him give people re: OA spins that he says really helped him learn them back in the day but I don't remember exactly what it was. I'll ask him if you're interested.

ask him ill take any tips. does he get his 180's that far around(like the bat wing photo where the board has spun about 180 degrees) i tend to turn my board about 120 degrees. i think i should be able to turn it more. however when i do i just end up on my butt

Okay, I landed my first one today so I will offer some things I noted that helped me:

The handle pull is huge, yank that thing with both hands to really initiate the spin.

I started out with a seated position with some tension on the rope but I did not load the line too hard. I did carry quite a bit of speed into it, but I was riding 75 ft back behind a pretty wide wake.

Right at the wake I gave the slightest backrollish cut to allow my board to drift behind me into a reverse glide type position.

Once this started I immediately yanked the handle and advanced my body over the handle and tried to keep it around my butt area.

Once I got the handle I pretty much came around and that was it. The trick has everything to do with the initiation of the rotation. Once that is set and you get the handle pass, the rest is a free ride!

cool thanks matt. looks good. ive been just jerking with one hand. ive been doing the oa 180s and grabbing them so ive only been using the one arm. ill try it with 2 hands. again congrats.

whelp tonight i made the transition from spinning with board in front of my to behind me(off axis). i dont get the board way up yet but im definately off axis and it feels freakin awesome. its the only thing i did tonight and you can take these things pretty huge. the difference was matts advice and using two hands to get the board back under me. now ill just be working on letting the board release further(higher) behind me. super cool feeling of falling down from the trick and into the landing.

Glad to hear it alan! So does that mean you got your first one under your belt? If so that is awesome! They are definitely a really cool feeling floating out there like that, especially when you know your going to get them back under you.

One of the main things I did to help "train" for this trick is trampoline work. I would jump straight up like a normal jump and initiate the off spin with that same handle pull. My main reason for this was teh pure act of building up those muscles required to yank that rope in tight.

Lots of discussion on this one. remember, with OA 180s and 3's there are a number of different ways to do them, grab them and position your body. I have learned 5 or 6 variations on the 180 alone, and it's always a fun trick. Here's 2 shots from some comps this year. Fun stuff!

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and

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matt- yes i do have a couple "good ones" under my belt. i have a bunch of them where i was off axis but not severely off axis, if that makes sense(board not way out behind me). seems like you can control the amount of axis you want to impart on the trick. what ill be working on next is letting the board further off axis. matt i too have worked on the tramp however for me it just didnt translate to well. maybe now that i can do them on the water the tramp will help me get the board out behind me a little more, dunno well see. im just eager to get back out on the water and do these again. seems really weird and like you can "get away" with alot of erros while doing these. i felt like i was in the air forever whereas with my on axis spins things happen really fast and if i mess up i usually end up crashing.


chad those shots look nice. i like the second one in particular b/c the board has rotated beyond 90 degrees like the first photo. most of my o/a 180's the board only rotates about 90 degrees. when i rotate the board beyond 90 i tend to get in trouble and slide out on my butt. i think that when i can gain control and be able to get the board beyond that 90 degrees, and more like your second photo, my 3's will get better.

I agree, it feels like you can be a lot more "sloppy" on the off axis spins. They really feel "floaty" which is great. The tramp didnt really teach me to get them off axis, it was more for building up those pulling muscles; thats what I used it for.

I only did a few before spraining my ankle on a whirly, so I am stuck waiting until I heal up before I can go back out and do some more, pretty bummed on that. Talk about a bittersweet set.

good luck on the whirly. i havent ever tried one so i have no advice. i think after i get the 3 totally dialed i wanna learn a ts frontroll which has haunted me forever. i also wanna learn a hs front flip. well see.

Yah I landed 3 of them last summer, but stopped doing them to go back to the basics plus I wasnt having fun chasing a trick all the time. It was kind of like the whole first invert thing, gotta get one! Now I am really trying to go back to the basics and build a stronger foundation for riding. I have been learning that the stronger your basics are the faster you can progress (and your way more consistent) IMHO. It feels like learning new tricks without the basics is taking one step forward whereas learning all the basics, then trying new tricks results in 1 step back and 5 steps forward on the ladder of progression. That damn switch ts is a pain though I really gotta focus on that mother!

matt i guess thats where you and i differ. i like chasing tricks. it took a while to get all my tricks back this spring because i took about 6 months off. however as long as i have all my tricks ill try to learn something. ill start out a run and throw all my stock stuff then move on to something new. for whatever reason thats what i enjoy about wakeboarding.

rode saturday, didnt go so well. only had one that was off axis and it wasnt very off axis. dont know what my problem is. i did throw a couple of o/a 180's to try to correct the problem but it didnt seem to help. ohh well.

landed blind on a couple of bs 180's. ive been passing the handle for about a year so finally tried to land blind, which wasnt to difficult. also tried a r2r and landed on the board on all of my attempts, i just slid out on the landings. need a little more rotation of the board and to get over my toes. these were pretty easy too i have no idea why i havent been able to do these. just a mental thing i suppose. ill work on these and get them stomped next time out.

Someone told me to work on big hs fs 180's right before the r2r. He told me do three of them in a row, then try a r2r. That made things a lot clearer and the landings got a lot better. Try them switch too, they are easier. Although thats a bit hipocritical for me since I learned the cab r2r before the switch roll, lol.

Alan: Okay how about some tips on glides and "drifting" in general. For some funny reason I never learned raley's or general glides; off spins have just been easier I guess. Whatcha got for tips on these? I would really like to get stale glides and batwings. I ride behind wakesetters mostly, around 75-80ft back can I take these w2w or do they need to be in the flats? (note: I am still on injured reserve so take your time with response since I wont be able to apply tips for a week or two more)

matt just want to make sure, can you do a raley or should i start with some tips there before going into glides

havent had much luck getting the board more off axis. so today i went out and just did some o/a 180s i had pretty good luck and was actually able to get the board "turned" more than normal. ill get there

only tried on o/a 180 tonight and it went well.
however im super psyched because i landed 5 h/s front flips. ive been wanting to land that trick for a long time. i landed it on my first attempt. felt really good throwing the flip and it was super easy after watching the book and figuring out i needed to roll(shoulder down) into the flip. last year when i tried these i was throwing them more across the boat in a true cartwheel fashion and coming up short every time.

How are the crashes coming up short on the HS front? I want to start trying them but that dude's compound fracture pic on here has freaked me out!

What all is in your bag of tricks Alan? Congrats on the HS front!

jarret i hadnt seen that compound fracture and i really dont wanna see it. however it would seem hard to have that type of injury learning this trick, coming up short for me has resulted in a face plant. the crashes havent been to difficult however i have committed to totally letting the board out behind me so i havent taken the full force of a crash yet. my problem is committing to let the board drift way out the back now.

my trick list isnt to impressive yet but im working on it.

backroll(grabbed)
tantrum(sometimes indy grab)
hs front flip
hoochie glide
raley
911
scarecrow
ts backroll(sometimes indy)
ts backroll to revert
ive landed a couple of indy glides but i havent done enough or am comfortable enough with them to claim them yet
spins
ts 3
ts 5
ts bs 180
hs 3 hs bs 180
oa 180

i want to learn a ts front roll and a hs roll to revert. ive come very close to landing the r2r that last couple of times out and feel ill get it before the summer is out. the ts front has haunted me for years. something about the rotation just hasnt clicked.

Very nice man! I would say that's a nice list.

Dude, I know you could do the HS R2R no problem. Can you do HS 180's w2w and into the flats? I would assume so. Just do a bunch of 2 handed HS 180's and really think about pulling that handle almost past your back hip and getting out over your toes on the landing. There is nothing I really do differently with the R2R compared to the backroll other than pulling hard with my rear arm after I leave the wake and pushing my chest out over my toes.

I did the mistake at first of trying to learn these big (into the flats) like I usually throw my rolls. I had a lot of trouble until I started taking them up more and just going w2w. The HS r2r is a really fun trick IMO...especially compared to the normal roll. Good luck!

no real progress today on the o/a 3. its the weekend so i normally dont get into "new trick learning mode" where i get up, immediately try the new trick, crash and do it again with no jumps or anything in between. with that said i had fairly good luck with the r2r. i perhaps landed 10 today all in all. however i dont know how to do the trick yet. its seems more luck than anything else when i land one. ill work on it and figure it out. im not confident in saying i have the trick nailed. ive done about 6 hs front flips and feel like i have that way more nailed that the r2r.

im new and dont know what on and off axis means. Does it mean that the board is kicked out from under the rider and the bottom of the board is not facing the water? just wondering

pottsy the third photo from the bottom is an off axis 3. during an off axis spin the board is behind the rider rather. an on axis spin is where the board is kept in between the boat and the rider(take a look at my profile photo to see an on axis spin). on axis spins are what most people think of when they think of a three or 5 or whatever.

i forgot to mention on my journal post above i did a backroll off of another boats roller today. ive never done one that way before and it was pretty cool.

havent done much with this. i still cant get the board behind me a great deal. i havent ridden much during the week when i can work on things. i did get a my r2r down pretty good. crowds should start to leave the lake soon and hopefully within the next couple of months i can devote enough time to dial the o/a 3 in.

Glad to hear your still riding. I am just now starting to feel decent enough to push again. There is nothing more frustrating than trying to ride hurt.

I have learned that the roam is a great re-hab board though. I can actually get behind the boat and have fun without going wake to wake!

ive never been on a roam, it looks interesting tho. let me know when youre ready to tackle the raley. ill post a couple of tips.

wehlp ve only ridden a couple of times since labor day. youd figure in az id be riding all the time. however due to lack of consistent riding partners i havent hit the water much. goals for the off season are not to lose to many tricks. i rode in early october and everything(tricks) was still ok. hopefully ill remain healthy into next year and be able to finally get this trick. im contemplating going to a camp(thinking The Wakeboard Camp) late spring of next year to tidy up my riding and learn a couple of nagging tricks(this one and the damn ts frontroll). anyway i dont expect to progress over the winter but i dont want this thread to die.
btw if anyone else is thinking about hitting up a camp next spring lemme know id be cool to hook up with some of you.

ok kids, i start the season sunday. ive been riding motocross all winter and am psyched to hit the water. i wont be tackling this right off but i still hope to land one of these by the end of this season. initially ill be working on getting my old stock back. plus i hate falling in cold water.

one month later and i finally got out. no perfect pass on the new boat yet so riding was kinda iffy. however i landed all my threes. didnt mess around with much else.

Nice! It must feel good to be in mid-season form on April 1st. Congrats Bro. You need to get some pics or video of your riding.

i will. i didnt take any photos or pics last year which was weird.
i wouldnt go so far to say im in midseason form i was pretty sloppy all things considered but im happy where im at after the first ride.

i havent messed with the 3 yet however i landed a huge bs 180 the other day. it gave me some confidence to try the 3. ive landed all my tricks from last summer except the ts 5. but i havent tried one yet. my riding cleaned up pretty quickly this spring. ive only been out about 5 times and i feel like im riding pretty cleanly already. no new tricks yet for this season. but i tried a couple ts raleys and ate it pretty good.

well i was trying to learn a ts raley last weekend. i have the feel for the trick i just need to let it fly behind me. reminds me of when i learned a regular raley(taking my time letting it out). the trick feels rather simple though. weight the front foot, look at the tower, keep arms bent, load the rear arm, and it will want to fly behind out.
after a few of these i tried an OHH. big mistake. i tried a few and took a couple of hard falls then on the last attempt i ended up with a concussion. couldnt remember anything for about 2 hours. i wasnt wearing my helmet which was really stupid. i dont know what the problem with this trick is it seems more simple than a hoochie to me. being able to rip the board back down with my right arm(strong arm) on the handle should be more simple. i wish i knew what caused the crash then i would be able to troubleshoot what went wrong. ill give it a couple of weeks to get healed and try this again, HELMET ON. going riding on andrews new boat this weekend, should be a good time. gonna wait to try new stuff till next weekend.
no progress on the oa 3.

Thanks for the update. It sounds like you are riding really well! I need to get back on those HS o/a 180's but I've only ridden a couple of times this year. I need another outting or two before I start trying them. I also better start trying some crows this year. It is rediculous that I haven't really ever tried them even though I do TS 3's and TS r2r's. Flipping forward is tough for me on TS.

Keep at it Alan!

not much riding this holiday weekend. the water was crappy on monday so todd gave me some tips for a ts frontroll. actually landed one in about 20 attempts.
gonna post my trick thoughts so i can hopefully get these dialed.
1) handle locked in on front hip or even behind it slightly.
2) load hips into the wake
3) come off edge and stand tall, square the body up to the wake.
4) hold handle at hip all the way through until the landing
5) overrotate the end of the trick

I just started trying to throw these this weekend. I am taking them to 5 and last one turned into more of an ole. Here is a link to a video of 4 of my trys. Anyone have some advice. I will try the 180's tonight when I go.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NXnETJgRk-c

SBT3, it looks like your biggest issue is not getting advanced over the handle on your first few. The last one where you took it ole/backroll-ish you gave it too much of a backroll cut; which you can see in the video compared to the first few.

The handle is really where all your control comes from, without getting the handle passed your going to "spin out" everytime. Take the exact same approach on your first attempt, and yank the handle with both hands as hard as you can immediately off the wake. When I learned these last summer I was right where you are in the video, then had to focus only on getting the handle. Once that happened it was money. Stick with it, your right there!

Alan, glad to hear your pushing things again. I am currently nursing my new ACL from December. I am hoping to start getting back to riding hard around july (knocking on wood). Right now just taking 1 maybe 2 sets a trip and working on basic spins etc; trying to stay low and in control. Keep us posted.

will do matt!! good luck with the knee.

sbt3 you look good. im sure you'll have these before long. ill try to get some video posted soon.

Thanks for the tips, maybe I can work on it a little tonight.

alrighty, landed about 6 ts fronrolls. still sliding out on some of them, i think i need to keep my shoulders closed to the boat and that will solve that problem. didnt mess with the 3. hopefully ill get out the weekend coming up and try to tackle the 3.

this was a pretty good description from josh so i decided to rip it off and post it here.

In my opinon some of the info here is a bit off. the biggest thing that will determine your success will be your approach edge and release. The rest of the trick is a result of how well you executed the first part. Evan mentioned useing a progressive edge that resembles a backroll. This will certainlt do the trick to get you off axis but your handle pass will be very difficult. the reason it will be hard is because there will be a ton of line tension. In recent years i have noticed a lot of people talking about the progressive edge and have seen it being recommended in the wrong circumstances a bunch of times. the goal of a progressive edge is to build line tension for load and release type tricks. if you turn in to the wake for a OA 3 and continue to build momentum as a proper progressive edge requires you will pop well and the load and release element of the edge will push the board behind you but the tension will pull the handle away from your hips and you wont make the pass without a whole bunch of strength. You will also note that if you do have to fight to pull the rope back into reach of your second hand you will stall the spin and land heels first in the water. not fun. so what i personally do, and reccomend, perhaps im bais, regardless, i will use the same approach edge i use for a flat spin 3. take it out a bit but not altra far. get the transition over fairly quick and come in with a knees bent approach and consitant edge, not proressive. be sure not to confuse a consistant edge strength with flattening off, you want to remain on edge but not continuously increaseing it as you move towards the wake. get on edge and hold it. this will keep the line tension minimal enough to make the pass. now where this trick does resemble a backroll is your release. as you are riding up the wake have a rear foot heavy approach and edge up and behind you when you hit the wake. what this does is turn the very last 5% of your edge into a bit of a load and release edge, but because it was done in such a short period it will not have the same line tension that a normal progressive edge has. this will release the board behind you into a nice corked position. be sure to give a strong pull when you are releasing off the wake into your rear hip with BOTH HANDS. Keep both hands on the rope pulling into your hip as long as you can. this will also help with not lettin the rope get too far from the small of your back to reach the handle pass. if you do all of this well, once you get the handle pass you are basically home free. the momentum and handle will unwind the rest of the spin and striaghten you up. if you dont edge to aggressivly up and out behind you off the wak you wont have to worry about going 5. not to mention a little handle control after the handle pass will control the overspin. this has been a lengthy post and i dont pretend to know it all and dont mean to undermind others' advice but this is what i have had success with coaching and personally. cheers

well i guess its time for an update. this past weekend was pure mayhem. i thought i was going to sink my boat(3am booze cruises are a bad idea when youre drunk). anyway back to riding
this season has been a little disappointing up until this point. i kinda felt like i was going to plateau and i have. to this point in the season ive really only added some solid grabs to my threes. i have learned a ts frontroll and landed a couple of ts raleys. my arm is doing better from all the ts raley attempts however im not going to be surprised if i find out that i have a partial tear somewhere in my rotator cuff. ive had a couple of wierd axis spins. the board has been out the back but no where near off axis, however i do have some pretty solid (about 30%) of the time oa 180's. the problem is my consistency on the 180's when i do them im caught off guard and then its too late to try for the 3. i suppose thats how i need to tackle the trick thru the 180. i cant believe this trick is taking this long.

quick update. rode on thursday with justin. i landed a mexiroll in three attempts. i cant believe ive never tried this type of roll. freakin easy. justin also landed one. his first invert. i was super stoked. far more than i was for myself. its nice seeing your boys step up.

todd is in town and we usually push each other pretty good. who knows what will become of the o/a 3. i tried several o/a 180s and was only able to get the board behind be on one of them. pretty frustrating. i dont know why this is so freakin mental for me. i just dont "see" the trick.

i learnd this trick in 3 or 4 tries last week u just have to go balls out and do it

Hey Alan, this thread has always been huge and you have been given so much advice that I didn't want to cloud the issue. I think too much is being made about doing the o/a 180 first. I can't do that trick, don't really try, but I can do a HS FS OA 3. I'm just going to explain how I do them, even though it may be different then what others have said.


1) I take a short cut, no more than 15 feet from the wake.

2) I come in very mellow and flat thinking 3 type pop.

3) I am squatted, with hands close together, handle in at my waist and chest leaning forward over the handle. Make sure the handle is in at the waist.

4) At the wake, I do the same type (concept) of backroll type cut but more mellow and I don't look over my shoulder, but keep my head neutral.

5) I think front knee to my lead shoulder or hit your front knee on your front forearm.

6) keep the handle close through the whole trick. If it is at your waist to start the trick it should help you get the handle pass.


Last thing: I learned this on the trampoline by thinking about front knee to front shoulder and keeping my head neutral. Once I had it on the trampoline, it was really easy to learn on the water.

You can do this trick. From what it sounds, this is in no way out of your ability as a rider.

Good Luck!

sdubz for the nice words and the advice. anytime someone tells me the way they do it i go to the water and try that. ill defintely try this week(end) with the tips you have given me. i dont think this trick can be that difficult. once i "see" a trick in my mind (i.e. visualize the rotation and they physics of the trick) i usually dont have too many problems learning it.

i can do these on a trampoline but i find alot of stuff just doesnt translate well to the water since there is no resistance(boat pulling you).

anyway thanks again. ill keep you guys posted.

Alan, something I did with my trampoline line that really helped was to put an inline bungee setup. I basically took a regular wake rope and put a carabeaner on the end and one on the tree (what I use for an anchor). I then took about 6 bungees and looped them through each of the carabeaners. I also looped a 5 foot extension as a "fail safe" since doing a raley off the tramp would not be fun.

Adding the bungee mechanism really helped with the feeling of passing the handle as the rope gets pulled back. Make sure and get enough bungees for a "manly pull" back.

On a side note I have been working on Cab hs OA 180's and they feel very different than my HS OA 3. Probably only due to my poor form, but I feel like I have to load the crap out of the cab ones and the HS 3's drift back with ease.

whats weird matt is ive heard from a few guys say the cab oa 180 comes pretty easy? ive never attempted it since i couldnt get the regular version down consistently.

thats a good idea with the bungees. i gave away my tramp but im looking to get another.


unrelated update. i tried about 10 hs fronts to fakie over the weekend. a pretty easy rotation. i didnt land any but came pretty close here are my thoughts regarding the trick

1) you dont need to know how to do hs frontflips to try this trick if you throw 180 early. think about a switch ts frontroll rotation.

2) you do need to take this trick pretty big.

3) come off the wake and drop your lead hand and throw your rear shoulder down hard towards your front knee. try to to have your weight centered over the board(not on your heels)

4) you can spot your landing really early in this trick. this is what messed me up. you have to keep the rotation going and not open up once you spot the landing. a couple of attempts i landed on the board because i stayed tucked.

5) for me i think the next step is creating a little slack in the line so i dont get pulled back on my heels when i land.

Yah, I have heard that too. I think my main issue is that I am loading the line 90% with my front foot rather than back foot. On my HS OA 3's its almost all backfoot, which leads me to believe I am doing the cab wrong. Ohh well, hopefully I can try tonight. I always forget how to fix them when I am on the water though or what to work on, lol.

well the last couple of weeks ive been trying
ts o/a 5's. im overrotating the trick. hopefully ill get it landed before the season ends. ive also been screwing around with batwings. my arm is so effed up from trying ts raleys back in june so i can only do a few before my arm starts to kill me.

What's up Alan, good to hear from yah. Let me know what you think of the TS OA 5's. I landed a few last year, but was having trouble getting them consistent (before the knee injury). Let me know what works(ed) for you.

I too have been working on TS raley's and glides. Someone told me that with the glides you stomp your back foot when your in the trough of the wake and rotate up over the handle similar to a TS front flip. I dont know if that will help, but I figured any advice couldnt hurt.

The couple glides I did that felt good were a really late initiation. Like I grabbed indy, floated for a bit, the rotated over the handle and back down. Now the raleys just took a monster later cut and both hands on the handle to keep control.

Either way, I am not great at either, so take what I say with a grain of salt.