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Old     (Mogey)      Join Date: Apr 2012       02-16-2015, 6:37 AM Reply   
I've seen some similar threads on here, but not with exactly the information I need.

I sold my Tige 22V last year and am back in the market for a boat. With the price increases on seemingly every boat, I've narrowed my search down to a 2015 Axis A20 (w Surfgate and tandem axle trailer) and a 2012 Mastercraft X2 (low hours, fully loaded, touchscreen, etc). They've both come down to $55k so far. I'd love to go for a 22ft boat but the dealerships here don't seem to budge as much on those as the 20s, so i'd be paying $10k+ more.

My main concern with the boats are the wakes. I demoed a 2015 A22 and was blown away with the surf & wakeboard wakes, but I'm concerned that they changed that hull to the T22 hull and left the A20 the same. I've never been on an X2, so between the A20 & X2, which would have the better surf & wakeboard wakes?

Thanks!
Old     (williamburell)      Join Date: Sep 2011       02-16-2015, 10:13 AM Reply   
*read it wrong*

I'd take the X2 but I'm sure boardjnky will be by shortly to refute my vote.
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       02-16-2015, 10:40 AM Reply   
Right on cue... A20 for the win. The A20 is on the same hull as released in 2011.

The wakeboard wake on the A20 is freaking MACKIN. I get compliment after compliment on my boat's wake. Most people can't believe it's a 20 foot boat.

I've never surfed behind one with surfgate, but I do believe it's plenty capable of surfing well.
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       02-16-2015, 10:58 AM Reply   
I would skip the 2012 MC (Or any other boat with Medallion Electronic crap in it) If you want to go with an X2, I'd search for a 2013 or newer, which has Murphy Electronics. (Or one of the older ones with manual controls)

I believe the A20 now has the Murphy Electronics basic LCD screen now, so that one should also be really good. Not sure if Axis ever ran Medallion, which I found weird because Malibu does, and Malibu has certainly had tons of issues with Medallion components too.

If it were me, I would go X2, but the X2 takes some pretty good weight to make a big wakeboard wake. It is a crossover hull, and was designed to be slalom friendly as well. X2 also puts out a darn nice surf wave, but I would want Gen2 on it. (another reason to search for a 2013).

Both are going to be great boats. The X2 will just be a little fancier, and will probably not really depreciate anymore. The 2015 A20 is going to take a huge first year hit, and another pretty good second year hit. After that, it will also remain fairly steady. You are going to lose more on the A20 though. A CONSIDERABLE amount more, mostly because it is new.
Old     (mattl)      Join Date: Jul 2013       02-16-2015, 11:14 AM Reply   
I was facing the call between an A20 and an X2 a few weeks ago. I ended up going with a Moomba Mondo.

My biggest concern on the A20, is when will the hull be updated. When that happens, I am afraid resale will take a hit. In my search, I found a lot of pre surf gate A20's in the low to mid 40's and considered adding a bolt on the platform surf system to save a little cash and wait for the 22 ft upgrade.

Also, the freeboard on the A20 was a little concerning with little ones in the boat. When the A20 gets an upgrade to the new A22/T22 design, I would look at it.

I have had negative experiences with MC and will not go back to them.

Best of luck .
Old     (skidaddy)      Join Date: May 2008       02-16-2015, 11:39 AM Reply   
Got my 2008 Mastercraft X2 on Boat Trader. Link below. They definitely hold their value, and this is my third MC with absolutely no issues (which is why they hold their value - that and higher initial quality). Of course, it's also why they cost more, but you definitely get what you pay for (in my opinion). There is also an aftermarket surf tab out there for about $500 ( http://wake-shaper.com/sample-page/ ) for X2's.

Personally, I consider MC or Nautique head and shoulders above the rest (and the market bears this out in the new and used values). You can also look at dealer margins for signs of value (dealer cost typically 65% of Malibu MSRP; MC dealer cost is 80% of MSRP). However, there are tons of Malibu fans on here, they are typically more afforable and you will find folks that have good and bad experiences with every brand. They are by no means "bad" boats - just different. In the end it's personal taste and fit and what you can afford.

Listing for my X2:

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/20...raft-x2-643615
Old     (davez71)      Join Date: Oct 2007       02-16-2015, 12:31 PM Reply   
I'm waiting for the infamous Axis A20 guy to pop in and give us his take on the A20.......
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-16-2015, 4:41 PM Reply   
Pretty tough call going new vs slightly used in this 20ft category.

First off as Eric mentioned. Stay far away from any 2012 MC with touch screens. Their electronics were a nightmare. Sure there are some fixes that have some boats working , but it has been really dealer dependant on how quick boats get working properly. Long term wise I would be very skeptical on getting any fixes or help on a system that was run for 1 year and plaugued with issues.

On to the boats. I haven't seen what's new for Axis for 2015 yet in terms of electronics but if they went touch screen and ditched all the manual options I would be pretty disappointed. I drove the A20 in 2011 and 21012 pretty regularly pulling a ton of riders. (Still same hull) The A20 wakeboard wakes are 1st class. Add in surfgate on the surf side and you have a homerun.


The X2 is also a great boat. The wakeboard wake is good , the surfwake is good and the ski wakes are respectable for a v-drive if that matters. I still think it's little less of caliber than the A20 on the wakeboard side. Less transition and less of landing zone. You will instantly notice the quality of the MC on the vinyl and foam even with the upgrades to vinyl in the Axis over the years. The MC won't have very much plastic filer parts, it usually all billet aluminum. Almost everything is through bolted or into a backing plate. The ergonomics of their seating is definately more comfy than that of the A20. The x2 handles the rougher water just a tad better due to a little deeper v entry. Downside unless your getting up to 2013 you'll need to retrofit a "homemade" surf system as gen 1surf tabs are useless.


All in all tough call. If I was strictly concerned about getting the maximum wake performance and surf performance A20. New boat that's all yours with a warranty can't be beat. As far as resale the new boat prices are keeping anything under 50k looking like great deals. If you boat doesn't have a factory surf system due to all the recent marketing hype with surfing I think that is a huge negative. Either boat will sell priced correctly. Going brand new you take the initial hit, going couple years used the boat has already taken a huge chunk of its hit. Good luck with the choice. No matter which boat you choose neither will disappoint.
Old     (Knotayooper)      Join Date: Jul 2014       02-16-2015, 6:17 PM Reply   
Not to hijack, but I would also look at the Tige R20 or RZR, they have a great wave and are nicer than the A20/22. I searched a lot last fall and almost pulled the trigger on an A20, just ordered an RZR given their technology and finish work. Good luck with the search...
Old     (dyost)      Join Date: Jan 2007       02-16-2015, 8:29 PM Reply   
Never ridden an A20, built a coue buddies have had X2s. I don't really like the wake. It does this weird thing at about 65ft back where the shape completely changes and it gets really wide really fast. I typically like to ride a longer rope 75-80 ft and you cannot do this on the X2, the wake is super wide, super small, and hard to clear. It gets a bit better with a ton of weight but I was never able to comfortably ride any longer than 70ft and had to bump the boat speed up to try and narrow it up (also making it smaller).

It is a super functional boat and nicely finished. Feels like tons of room for a 20 footer. If you ride 60-65 feet and slow (22mph) you can get an acceptable wake but not great. For the money there are definitely much better wakes out there.
Old     (Mogey)      Join Date: Apr 2012       02-17-2015, 7:10 AM Reply   
Thank y'all for the feedback, this is exactly what I was looking for.

Sounds like I should definitely avoid the 2012 X2 bc of electronics and no bad reviews about the A20's wake. It would be nice to wait for the A20 hull change but I don't know if I have that patience - maybe they'll work with me on the A22. As far as resale, I agree that MC will always be better, but I think the Surfgate technology on the Axis will help it out a little. I didn't necessarily have a bad experience with Tige with my last boat, but I'm looking forward to trying out something new this time around.

Hopefully I'll demo the A20 soon and confirm the wakes - I'll let y'all know how that goes.

Thanks again!
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       02-17-2015, 8:38 AM Reply   
I don't know if MC resale will always be better. I think in this instance, where you have an MC that has already taken the initial large depreciation hit, as opposed to a newer Axis that has not, the MC may not drop as much in the next few years. However, overall, I think that a new Axis will hold its value just as well as a new MC.
Old     (stoked_32)      Join Date: Aug 2007       02-17-2015, 12:25 PM Reply   
I have an A20 and ridden behind the X2 a handful of times. In terms of quality of wakeboard wakes when fully weighted (4k+) I don't really think it's a contest. The A20 has a much better shape and volume. IMO the MC has a ceiling where the wake doesn't get any bigger. Both stock wakes are crap (small), and both have pretty wide wakes. Never surfed either one.

In terms of build quality and feel, the MC is a better overall boat. Not sure how much this matters to you, but there's a significant difference in fuel consumption between the two when weighted. Last I checked, the X2 still drinks fuel like a fish.

For the price range you're considering, I would take a serious look at a 2009+ SAN 210.

Just between the two, if it's more important that you feel great about your boat, pride in ownership, have lots of friends out with you, better resale value, etc. then I'd roll with the MC. If your main concern is the wake and the ride behind your boat, then go with the Axis.
Old     (skiboarder)      Join Date: Oct 2006       02-17-2015, 12:57 PM Reply   
The Axis feels a lot bigger. The X2 is a little cramped in the cockpit.

Also, Consider warranty.
Old     (williamburell)      Join Date: Sep 2011       02-18-2015, 4:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
The Axis feels a lot bigger. The X2 is a little cramped in the cockpit.
You might be thinking about the pre 2006 x2. The picklefork is by no means "cramped in the cockpit" for a 20' boat. Maybe in comparison to a 22 or 23' boat but one of the things I liked most was the larger feeling of the x2/tons of storage for a 20' boat.


Quote:
. I don't really like the wake. It does this weird thing at about 65ft back where the shape completely changes and it gets really wide really fast. I typically like to ride a longer rope 75-80 ft and you cannot do this on the X2, the wake is super wide, super small, and hard to clear. It gets a bit better with a ton of weight but I was never able to comfortably ride any longer than 70ft and had to bump the boat speed up to try and narrow it up (also making it smaller).
Front weight is key and find that to be the case in most 20' boats to narrow it up a bit.

Quote:
The wakeboard wake on the A20 is freaking MACKIN. I get compliment after compliment on my boat's wake. Most people can't believe it's a 20 foot boat.

I've never surfed behind one with surfgate, but I do believe it's plenty capable of surfing well.
I really did like your wakeboard wake. The Axis is a bit more peaky and def a good wake but like others have said with weight the x2 is pretty good. I run 600's in the rear on top of the factory tanks and was just throwing a 350 bag on top of the kgb and the wake was good. Changed to a 650# in the front and it got much much better. If possible when testing boats I would try to ride both weighted. Riding either with just factory ballast is going to leave you unimpressed with both imho.

Also as others have mentioned the touchscreen on the MC is a pos. I was stuck in a very similar situation of Axis vs MC and found that the older MC had the simplicity of an Axis as far as toggles etc but a better finish. You can find very low hour older MC's in great shape if you are looking for "simple yet refined".

Last edited by williamburell; 02-18-2015 at 4:28 AM.
Old     (stoked_32)      Join Date: Aug 2007       02-18-2015, 8:08 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by williamburell View Post

Front weight is key and find that to be the case in most 20' boats to narrow it up a bit.


I really did like your wakeboard wake. The Axis is a bit more peaky and def a good wake but like others have said with weight the x2 is pretty good. I run 600's in the rear on top of the factory tanks and was just throwing a 350 bag on top of the kgb and the wake was good. Changed to a 650# in the front and it got much much better. If possible when testing boats I would try to ride both weighted. Riding either with just factory ballast is going to leave you unimpressed with both imho.
.
Yup

I run 1900# in the nose and the wake narrows up more with a nice transition. ~2100# in the back plus wedge & people.

Last edited by stoked_32; 02-18-2015 at 8:13 AM.
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       02-18-2015, 9:01 AM Reply   
Cory, I'd like to get a pull behind the mastercraft this year! I do really like the wake behind Alison's x15.
Old     (williamburell)      Join Date: Sep 2011       02-18-2015, 12:49 PM Reply   
At this rate any time after June will work.
Old     (granddaddy53)      Join Date: Dec 2013       02-19-2015, 6:39 AM Reply   
54 including tandem galvanized trailer, brand new ordered to reasonable spec including surfgate for 2014, a 950front, two 750 rears on the plug and play, and you get a ridiculous fun surf wake right side and decent left with just the driver and wedge. No question, just negotiate hard at dealership, hey david curtis, spring time soon!!!!
Old     (williamburell)      Join Date: Sep 2011       02-19-2015, 7:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
54 including tandem galvanized trailer, brand new ordered to reasonable spec including surfgate for 2014, a 950front, two 750 rears on the plug and play, and you get a ridiculous fun surf wake right side and decent left with just the driver and wedge. No question, just negotiate hard at dealership, hey david curtis, spring time soon!!!!
I consider anyone who uses terms like right side and left side when describing surf wakes to be my best source of reliable boating information. If you could jack up your grammar a little bit I bet you could be a heck of an apprentice for da moose
Old     (davez71)      Join Date: Oct 2007       02-19-2015, 11:31 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by granddaddy53 View Post
54 including tandem galvanized trailer, brand new ordered to reasonable spec including surfgate for 2014, a 950front, two 750 rears on the plug and play, and you get a ridiculous fun surf wake right side and decent left with just the driver and wedge. No question, just negotiate hard at dealership, hey david curtis, spring time soon!!!!
I knew it was only a matter of time for AXIS Guy to show up. However Im quite disappointed that he dint give us the long reason to buy AXIS.

I cant wait for spring my new X23 is going to be delivered. And yes I negotiated HARD......
Old     (davez71)      Join Date: Oct 2007       02-19-2015, 11:31 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by williamburell View Post
I consider anyone who uses terms like right side and left side when describing surf wakes to be my best source of reliable boating information. If you could jack up your grammar a little bit I bet you could be a heck of an apprentice for da moose
he is for sure da moose's apprentice
Old     (Redheadd)      Join Date: Apr 2014       02-19-2015, 11:37 AM Reply   
The moose!!! Love that guy!!!
Old     (granddaddy53)      Join Date: Dec 2013       02-24-2015, 6:23 AM Reply   
David, congradulations, did you finance it over 10 or 20 years with a 10-20000 downpayment? I stroked a check for mine. By the time you add the sacs and sundries, tax, title license, where you at $100000.00??? Please bring it to the spillway and we can compare surf and board wakes. Can't wait to post the results. Oh, port and starboard, or is it "surfside" for the right hand side??? school me please. Wonder if you guys will be riding,skating, water skiing, surfing,snowboarding/skiing, and ripstik like the 54 year old fart 20 years from now,,
Old     (Redheadd)      Join Date: Apr 2014       02-24-2015, 6:32 AM Reply   
If you're younger then 40 and all you do is surf pretty sure it's because you suck!
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       02-24-2015, 6:40 AM Reply   
BRB,going to "stroke some checks" for some stuff.........
Old     (Redheadd)      Join Date: Apr 2014       02-24-2015, 7:34 AM Reply   
Lol^^
Old     (davez71)      Join Date: Oct 2007       02-24-2015, 12:56 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by granddaddy53 View Post
David, congradulations, did you finance it over 10 or 20 years with a 10-20000 downpayment? I stroked a check for mine. By the time you add the sacs and sundries, tax, title license, where you at $100000.00??? Please bring it to the spillway and we can compare surf and board wakes. Can't wait to post the results. Oh, port and starboard, or is it "surfside" for the right hand side??? school me please. Wonder if you guys will be riding,skating, water skiing, surfing,snowboarding/skiing, and ripstik like the 54 year old fart 20 years from now,,
I love when his guy speaks its a guaranteed chuckle every time . I can bring my boat any time and get this I wont even charge you to ride on my boat..

Well I take that back, if your charging 120 + gas for an Axis, I should be able to charge 240 + gas for my X23. Sounds about right .

What I'm curious about is why you are charging people to ride on your boat that you don't have any payments to make on it? If you have been around the sport long enough you would see that most people just ask for gas money for your sets if you come ride.

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