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Old     (Codyt218)      Join Date: Apr 2015       04-03-2015, 12:48 PM Reply   
I've will be buying our first boat sometime this year or early next year. We are looking at 20 footers. The boats we are interested in are Tige RZR, Axis a20 and possibly Supreme s21. I need some pros and cons on each.
Old     (rexlex01)      Join Date: Mar 2010       04-03-2015, 12:51 PM Reply   
What sport and # peeps?
Old     (Codyt218)      Join Date: Apr 2015       04-03-2015, 1:06 PM Reply   
Boarding,surfing and a little tubing for the kids until they get older. Prolly 4-8 people
Old     (scuba_steve)      Join Date: Oct 2013       04-03-2015, 1:33 PM Reply   
Tige RZR-

Length - 20'
Beam - 94"
Weight - 3100lbs
Fuel Tank - 38gal
Seating - 12

Comes stock with 900lbs ballast as the Wake Pro setup. Has a nice interior that is a little more dressed with diamond stuck stitching and different patterns. The Taps plate gives you plenty of control in how the boat rides in different conditions and with shaping the wake.

Pros:

The 360 Service plan warranty - Tige covers the first 3 years of regular service fees at your local dealer.

Convex Hull - Doesnt have a "hook" at the rear of the boat and because of this it doesnt have nearly as much drag as other boats. This results in less fuel consumption for you along with less weight in the boat to achieve a nice surf wave.

AVX Surf System with Surf X Ballast - These are options on the Tige line but the Surf X ballast gives you 1600lbs installed from the factory instead of the stock 900lbs. The AVX platform gives you even more control in dialing the surf wave by adjusting the rear of the boat.

Touchscreen - Comes with a nice touch screen to control everything in the boat instead of toggle switches.

Cons :

Wakesurf quickswitch - The Tige line of boats does not offer a quick switch surf system. If you have to list the boat over (about 7* or so) and wait a few mins to switch side while filling bags. While you cant switch sides quickly, the surf wave behind the Tiges are great waves with long pockets and well defined lips great for airs. Using the AVX and taps system you can change the shape of the wave from shorter more mellow wave to something steep with a quick transition and everything between.

Dealer locations - Not the biggest dealer network so it might be a drive to your closest dealer.



___________________________

Axis A20

Length - 20'
Beam - 98"
Weight - 3500lbs
Fuel Tank - 42gal
Seating - 11

Comes stock with 800lbs ballast. Throws a great wakeboarding wake for a 20' boat with stock weight but load it up and it gets impressive for its size. The boat has a 98" beam width which helps with storage room for its size.

Pros:

Great wakeboarding wake for everyone. If you have kids or beginners looking to wakeboard you can slow the boat down to 15-17mph while bringing their line length in and the wake is still very well formed and firm.

SurfGate and Wedge - These are options on the Axis line up but if you arent adding these to your Axis thats retarded. Surfgate gives you an easy way to start surfing, allows for transfer as you surf along with switching out riders at the flip of a switch. The Wedge is great to add some steepness and a little kick while wakeboarding but also shapes up the surf wafe.

Toggle switches - Some people might look down on these as "budget" but they are simple, easy to use and explain to a new person driving your boat while also easy to work on and replace if something were to happen.

Cons :

Options - Everything with Axis is an option which can be frustating to some. The nice thing is you can order your boat exactly how you want with what you do and do need. These boats were originally released for a core rider looking to get just what he needs to go on the water and start riding without everything being too fancy. If you start dressing them up with things you want instead of need you can raise the price on them.

PnP Ballast - A lot of people can be misled when adding the optional PnP ballast to an Axis boat. From the factory, the PnP ballast option is just the additional lines and fittings to install bags of your choice. You still need to purchase the ballast bags to complete the PnP system but its not that bad. You have plenty of options in bags and sizes to go with to fit your needs. I recommend the Strait Line Sumo series since they have 1" ports on the bag to match the Hi-Flo ballast lines from Axis along with having a convenient "burper" valve to get all the air out.

The Hull - For 2015 the rest of the Axis line saw an update to the Wake Plus hull that is designed to work better with SurfGate while still putting out a great wakeboard wake, The A20 did not receive this upgrade and I'm curious to see if it will be upgraded in 2016.


_____________________________________________


Sorry, I'm not caught up on the Supreme line
Old     (mattl)      Join Date: Jul 2013       04-03-2015, 3:57 PM Reply   
The a20 has a great wake. I considered that boat but went with the Moomba mondo. We have 3 kids under 5 and wanted the a20, but when compared it to mondo we bought that because the mondo had more freeboard. The deeper v hull helps with ride and handles weigh better. Also, I like the non skid walk over on the mondo and axis doesn't offer it.

Demo each of them. If you buy new, wait until boat show season and incentives are great. Good luck.
Old     (brainrinse)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-03-2015, 4:05 PM Reply   
Mondo, or A20 if I have to stick to your list.
Old     (Codyt218)      Join Date: Apr 2015       04-03-2015, 5:33 PM Reply   
What are the stock ballast options on the mondo?
Old     (brainrinse)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-03-2015, 6:18 PM Reply   
1300 lbs standard (400 in each rear corner and 500 center tank)

You can order the upgraded ballast and get a bow sac (500 lbs) and larger rear bags (650 lbs) for for a total of 2300 lbs.
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       04-03-2015, 6:58 PM Reply   
A20 all day long
Old     (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       04-04-2015, 5:28 AM Reply   
I would go S21 all day you get a ton more space inside the boat and I have never heard anyone say that their boat is to big, With the S21 you get quick fill ballast plug and play ballast WS interior speakers all standard plus you have the option to get the quick surf system
Old     (ktm525)      Join Date: Mar 2009       04-04-2015, 7:01 AM Reply   
I know you are looking at 20 footer. You should check out the new 2016 (Yes I said 2016) MB 21 tomcat.
\http://dcphotomania.smugmug.com/2016-MB-21-Tomcat/
Old     (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       04-04-2015, 7:50 AM Reply   
You said 20 footer so I don't get adding the Supreme S21. Its a big 21 at 21 feet with a 102 beam. If your adding that size to the equation there are lots(and better) options. The Supreme's have come a long way and they are nice, but their pricing went rogue when Centurion bought them. Plus they have a very strange bow. Some one called it an ice creme scoop which is pretty true.

We ran Tige RZR's for 3 years. They are a nice boat but are small when compared to a S21. They are a 20' with a 94" beam. Same with the Axis A20 20'/ 98" beam. All are nice boats and do some things well and lack in others. A20 wakeboard wake is better, RZR surf wave is better. S21 is supposed to surf awesome, but people told me the wakeboard wake just plain sucks due to the deep V and is hard to clean up.
Old     (Codyt218)      Join Date: Apr 2015       04-04-2015, 9:33 AM Reply   
I only added it because I kinda like the looks of the s21 and the price isn't to far off of the RZR. Plus they are the closest dealer to me. The next closest would be Tige, mastercraft, axis/malibu and then moomba.
Old     (BaadLS1)      Join Date: Dec 2013       04-04-2015, 9:57 AM Reply   
are we talking new or used here and is there a length restriction you have to abide by? As soon as you said s21 you change the ballgame dramatically.
Old     (Codyt218)      Join Date: Apr 2015       04-04-2015, 10:05 AM Reply   
New or used but I don't want to go any older than 2010. No there isn't a length restriction. More of a price thing for me. I would be open to 22footers if I found a good price on one.
Old     (BaadLS1)      Join Date: Dec 2013       04-04-2015, 10:37 AM Reply   
If you are more sensitive to price than the rest of your requirements I would consider lightly used and go big on length with a Supreme v226 assuming you really like your closest dealer, Supreme.
Old     (Codyt218)      Join Date: Apr 2015       04-04-2015, 10:46 AM Reply   
The only issue I have with supreme is I don't know much about them besides that centurion bought them. I'm not completly sold on the dealer. I have never used them for anything. I have heard good things about the tige dealer(eagle marine) and it's only 30minutes away. Every other dealer is an hour to hour and a half away. Which isn't really that far.
Old     (BaadLS1)      Join Date: Dec 2013       04-04-2015, 11:55 AM Reply   
H20king can weigh in on the v226. Supposedly his setup is exceptional for surfing. My understanding is that things improved after they were bought by Centurion. I think the closest Tige you will get for the price is the RZR but I personally think space is a bigger factor here. If you had an MB dealer nearby the F21 or even TWB23 would be a no brainer.
Old     (Codyt218)      Join Date: Apr 2015       04-04-2015, 12:19 PM Reply   
The mastercraft dealer is about 45 minutes from me and they carry the mb line
Old     (brainrinse)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-04-2015, 12:39 PM Reply   
So you are trying to decide between pretty much all of the brands, new or used?
Old     (Codyt218)      Join Date: Apr 2015       04-04-2015, 1:17 PM Reply   
Yea pretty much. I'm not set on any brand. I'm just looking for the best bang for my buck.
Old     (BaadLS1)      Join Date: Dec 2013       04-04-2015, 1:34 PM Reply   
Where are you located? Texas?
Old     (Codyt218)      Join Date: Apr 2015       04-04-2015, 2:13 PM Reply   
Weatherford. It's about 30 minutes west of Fort Worth.
Old     (BaadLS1)      Join Date: Dec 2013       04-04-2015, 2:43 PM Reply   
Oh geez. Go to Texas Mastercraft in Fort Worth and start there. Lots of good things have been said about them on here. If you can find a slightly used MB Tomcat 21, 22 or TWB23 then you are in fantastic shape.
Old     (Preston)      Join Date: Jul 2010       04-04-2015, 7:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaadLS1 View Post
Oh geez. Go to Texas Mastercraft in Fort Worth and start there. Lots of good things have been said about them on here. If you can find a slightly used MB Tomcat 21, 22 or TWB23 then you are in fantastic shape.
^^^ditto^^^
Go see Craig at TXMC. I just bought a brand new leftover 2014 F22 from there. I think they have 2 more '14s left. You'll be surprised at the deals they're making. They also have a few used MB's in stock. Hit me up if you have any questions about the F22.
Old     (99Bison)      Join Date: Sep 2012       04-04-2015, 8:41 PM Reply   
New X20 looks pretty sweet fwiw as well
Old     (g-mantrix)      Join Date: Jan 2014       04-05-2015, 2:15 AM Reply   
In a similar position as myself, no restrictions but have a preference for a 20'er
I am leaning towards the RZR, like the styling, finish and good reviews on wake for boarding and surfing. Coming off a pickle fork X2 will read this thread with interest
Old     (Nordicron)      Join Date: Aug 2011       04-05-2015, 7:04 AM Reply   
Yeah don't get a 20ft boat unless u want to be regretting that decision after about a month! Seriously bigger the better. More space, bigger wake potential, better stability in rough water, did I say more space and more storage. And likely easier better resale. Don't get a 20' boat if your not length restricted.
Old     (viking)      Join Date: Sep 2009       04-05-2015, 4:14 PM Reply   
If it was me I'd be looking at the MB or Supreme if you want best bang for your dollar as you indicated earlier.
But I agree if not restricted to size on lake I'd still stay with those 2 manufacturers and look at 22 tomcat or s226. Recommend demo on whatever you narrow it down to.
Old     (Bamabonners)      Join Date: Jul 2011       04-05-2015, 4:48 PM Reply   
I've got a 2013 X2 with 50 hours for sale. just sayin....
Old     (Codyt218)      Join Date: Apr 2015       04-06-2015, 10:09 AM Reply   
That's prolly out of the range I'm looking to pay
Old     (Redheadd)      Join Date: Apr 2014       04-06-2015, 11:52 AM Reply   
What's your range?
Old     (Codyt218)      Join Date: Apr 2015       04-06-2015, 4:59 PM Reply   
Prolly around 60k.
Old     (cain0725)      Join Date: May 2012       04-06-2015, 7:56 PM Reply   
i have never seen a MB boat on our lake in arkansas, there is a dealer in little rock and they look nice.
Old     (Nordicron)      Join Date: Aug 2011       04-06-2015, 8:02 PM Reply   
I can tell you the MB F22 has an amazing wakeboard wake! And the 2015 has 2800 lbs quick fill 60sec stock ballast! Prob just a touch more quality feel to an MB over a axis but not much.
Old     (Codyt218)      Join Date: Apr 2015       04-07-2015, 3:40 AM Reply   
I appreciate everyone's input.
Old     (allzway)      Join Date: Feb 2014       04-07-2015, 1:31 PM Reply   
Another MB person checking in. We researched like crazy last year before purchasing the MB F22. It is a pretty awesome boat for the money.

It doesn't have all the fancy gauges and electronics of the big three, but on a dollar comparative basis for quality and value, I think it is pretty hard to beat.
Old     (mattl)      Join Date: Jul 2013       04-07-2015, 2:11 PM Reply   
Also, make sure that you like the dealer/service department as much as the boat that you buy. A great dealer/service department makes for a great experience.
Old     (FastR3DN3K)      Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Midlothian TX       04-07-2015, 2:14 PM Reply   
Cody, I'm just down the road from you in Mansfield, and the guys over at Eagle Marine (Tige) in Ft. Worth are absolutely top notch. I've had zero issues when getting any service work done and they've taken care of me better than any other dealership I've ever had to deal with.

For $60k, there's a ton of great options out there. If I were sticking to your list, I'd say go with the RZR for the better surf wake and the top notch service that comes with it. But if it were my money, I'd definitely look at a few other options on the used market and try to go bigger. Go take a test ride in a 20' boat, and then come down and take a ride with me in my RZ4 (24'), and you'll never want to go back to a smaller boat. I'd try to look at some 22' boats around the 08-12 range and you should be able to get a more bang for your buck, even if it's not a Tige
Old     (SteeleAxis)      Join Date: Oct 2012       04-07-2015, 3:00 PM Reply   
Having owned both an Axis A20 and now an MB F22....A20 all day. MBs look a lot nicer and I thought I was upgrading based on all the hype I was told/read, but I put a ridiculous amount of hours on my A20 and it ran like a champ with zero mechanical issues. The wake will blow anyone away with what you can get out of a 20 foot boat, plus be super cool and clean for beginners at just about any speed. Surf Gate is amazing for getting a great and simple to use wave. The only issues I ever had with mine were the cheap vinyl which they have since upgraded.

Again MB Tomcats look awesome and have a very good wake and I'm really trying to love mine, but trip after trip to dealer for manufacturing and design issues in just the first 7 months of having one have turned me off to them a bit. Tried to sort out some stuff with the owner himself at a recent boat show just to have him walk away. Still holding out hope it all gets resolved (headed back to shop again this week), so if we can ever get all the issues sorted I'd be all for jumping back on here with an update of how great they are.
Old     (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       04-07-2015, 3:01 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by h20king View Post
I would go S21 all day you get a ton more space inside the boat and I have never heard anyone say that their boat is to big, With the S21 you get quick fill ballast plug and play ballast WS interior speakers all standard plus you have the option to get the quick surf system
+1 on the S21. Supremes are now Centurion's value brand. They are built to surf and do it well. They did start putting in the tabs on the bottom so you can switch sides and weight evenly as well due to popular demand, although I still think that they will surf best listed.
Old     (Codyt218)      Join Date: Apr 2015       04-08-2015, 6:00 PM Reply   
Fast thank you for the offer maybe I can get a chance to check it out. The problem is I like them all. Does anyone have a new mastercraft nxt?
Old     (tonytige)      Join Date: Jan 2003       04-09-2015, 7:11 AM Reply   
Cody,

This is Tony Fussell with Tige Boats over here in Abilene TX. Please email me at Tony@tige.com. I would like to invite you and anyone else on this thread to come check out the factory. I would like to show you everything that goes into a Tige and get you out on the water. If you are interested please contact me. You can also call the factory at 325-676-7777. Look forward to hearing from you or anyone else on WakeWorld.
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       04-09-2015, 7:28 AM Reply   
I wish I had a picture of my wake last night. The A20 was freaking MACKIN' last night. 7 people plus almost-full plug and play and wedge. Every single person came back in the boat just WOWed by the wake. Not exaggerating at all, this boat has unreal potential for a 20 foot boat.

Build quality is great, and the new PCM powerplants are the same as found in Nautiques. Surfgate wakesurf wakes are legit too. Seriously can't go wrong with the A20. Amazing boat for the money.
Old     (Codyt218)      Join Date: Apr 2015       04-09-2015, 2:01 PM Reply   
Tony I will for sure take you up on your offer. I'm only 2 hours away from the plant.

Boardjnky how does the a20 handle rough water?
Old     (FastR3DN3K)      Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Midlothian TX       04-09-2015, 4:32 PM Reply   
Cody my boat is currently over at Eagle Marine getting prepped for the season and I'll be picking it up in about a week when I get back in from work. If you want to come take a ride with me, just give me a bit of a head's up as I work offshore. You're more than welcome to join us if we have room (which we usually do, I've yet to fill my boat to the 17 person max rating), and once the water warms up a bit more we'll be going out a couple of times a week. We usually ride Joe Pool Lake, but the last couple seasons it's been crazy out there since we've been the only ones with water. We've talked about running down to Lake Alvarado with Matt Edmondson (he's a rider that's sponsored by Red Bull that also works at Eagle Marine) to see about dialing in my wake just a bit more, as well as making a trip down to Lake Whitney to get away from the crowds. If you want to join us, just let me know.
Old     (mschmidt33)      Join Date: Aug 2013       04-09-2015, 6:55 PM Reply   
Test drove both the A20 and RZR and we went with the RZR since we are doing more surfing now. If you are doing more wakeboarding go A20. If you can go bigger than 20ft, do it. We love our RZR. Best looking towboat out there imo.
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       04-10-2015, 6:08 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Codyt218 View Post
Tony I will for sure take you up on your offer. I'm only 2 hours away from the plant.

Boardjnky how does the a20 handle rough water?
Handles it just fine. We don't get really rough water on our lake, but we get a lot boats turning it into a washing machine. All you need to do is look at the front of the hull on the Axis boats to know they handle it well. They have a very exaggerated keel in the front of the boat which helps it cut through the water nicely.

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