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Old     (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       05-14-2015, 6:16 PM Reply   
So obviously we have been anticipating this year's Z3, since much of the testing and R&D we helped do is in this year's model and in the AVX. The new Surf XL package exceeds my expectations. Of course we are going to add some weight for the endless wave tour, but not much. Its great the way it is. I have only a few minor gripes.

I give my opinion, and then show many angles of a diverse group of surfers, all on the pure stock wake. I didn't even need to sit in the corner, much of the riding with RJ I was driving.



We are going to have this at the West Coast Wakesurf Open, of course, and then the rest of the Endless Wave Tour, but we have 2 other event NON wake9 events that we are going to be at in California if anyone wants to come out and get a ride and see for yourself.

The First is this weekend at Lake Rollins near Marysville, CA.



Then in June at Lake Berryessa:



I post in that video that it got 4 GPH. We did 10 hours and it did less than 4 GPH, I took careful records and this year the hour meter works in tenths, so more accurate. I am keeping receipts and planning on logging every outing.

I can tell you we can surf at 11.6-11.8 MPH and it barely hits 3000 rpm even with the extra comp weight and full of people. The new ACME 15" prop (2419) is working amazing, it even handles more positively at idle speeds, I want to try it on the old Z3.

Acme sent me a new prop to try, can't wait to test that, ACME thinks it may do even better.
Old     (AdamBrewer)      Join Date: Aug 2014       05-15-2015, 8:32 AM Reply   
Very nice! Thanks for the review. Congrats on the new boat it looks awesome!
Old     (wakemitch)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-15-2015, 8:36 AM Reply   
That wake looks really fun
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       05-15-2015, 10:32 AM Reply   
ragboy in the past you've advocated that the z3 didn't need low pitched props because you could push similar weight and more with a 1235. What's changed? The 2419 is a VERY aggressive jump from the 1235, especially with a bigger motor.

(beautiful boat, wave and family, BTW!)

Last edited by shawndoggy; 05-15-2015 at 10:36 AM.
Old     (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       05-15-2015, 11:43 AM Reply   
@shawndoggy I am not a prop expert and honestly try on what people tell me may work and see how it tests. ACME has been talking to me about this 15" prop for a while and even now sent me another.

1st, I am assuming that the Z3 I have now and the previous are the same, I don't think tige has done anything other than change the motor that would affect this. This motor has more torque, but that is the only difference I can see.

The new prop seems to surf better in the sense that I can't detect any slippage or cavitation at all and the wake is clean. The new prop made a VERY noticeable difference to me in how the boat handled at slow speeds, specifically idle. You can see at the begining of that video how our ramp is, you have to back off of the trailer and then do an immediate 180 in place, which as you know is easy unless you are experienced in a inboard boat.

With the 1235, I had to put the throttle in gear forward and then burp it to get water past the rudder so it would turn sharp, and then do reverse, rinse, repeat. With this prop, I put in idle forward, and it just turns. You really notice it around the dock.

Again, not a prop expert, but there are a lot of little things I notice with this prop, that I really like. I will be out tomorrow and take it up to cruising speed, and let you know how that goes.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       05-15-2015, 11:52 AM Reply   
I've never noticed better low speed handling like that... but then again I'm in the truck and my wife is in the boat on launch and retrieve. I'd look like a total novice in those scenarios!

I went to a 15" prop on the MB two seasons ago. Much improved hole shot and speed holding when slammed.... but as you have noticed (by your description that the goofy wave is a little better) more prop yaw pushing the starboard side of the boat down. Also the significantly reduced top speed can be a drag on long cruises. I miss the 1235 for the 30 or so minutes it takes to slog across our lake.

Till the 2 speed transmission ever catches on you gotta give some to get some I guess.
Old     (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       05-15-2015, 12:00 PM Reply   
The goofy wave is better because of the AVX, and maybe some due to the prop.

What we found when we started testing the VX at different angles last year, is that by adjusting the angle you could bring parity to each side. The regular side liked the VX a bit lower, and a bit higher on the goofy. When you did that, they were the same, just as clean. Basically, its like altering the hull to compensate for prop rotation, and it works.

The only difference now, is the curl at the back of the wave, the goofy side likes a TAD more weight up front, about 150 lbs to get the curl to be less obtrusive vs the regular side.
Old     (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       05-15-2015, 12:26 PM Reply   
@shawn What is your top speed, and what is your RPM surfing at like 11.5? curious how it compares.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       05-15-2015, 12:33 PM Reply   
well the MB she is off to Russia. But going from memory, top speed with 350 @ 5150ish rpms, throttle buried, 4k' elevation was right about 37. Cruising at 4000, about 28.

Surf RPMs were low 3000s but I'm sorry I can't recall if it was 3100 or 3400. Somewhere in there tho. Not much diff in RPMs at surf speed between 1235 and 2315 (I never made the more aggressive step to the 2419 like you have). Definitely more RPMs at wakeboard speed than 1235, and the boat always required counterweight on the port side for wakeboarding after adding the 15" prop.
Old     (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       05-17-2015, 7:47 PM Reply   
OK, so I was out on Saturday at the hyperlite demo and I got a chance to check RPMs at various speeds. Elevation is at 2300 ft at rollins lake, where I normally run at 800 feet. I didn't notice any difference. Haven't checked gas yet.

This is RJ surfing on goofy side, and you can see 11.8 MPH, which is definitely on the faster side, and the RPM is not even 3100. Picture taken when everything was stable, so accurate. Weighting is with new larger sacs, probably ~3500 lbs or so of water, and then 1000 or so in people.

Photo-2015-05-16-16-58-06_7565 by wake9, on Flickr

Here is 11.4, same weight.

Photo-2015-05-16-18-03-10_7583 by wake9, on Flickr

So then I dumped ballast and did my normal HEAD HOME speed, just chilling, not to far to go. About 3100 RPM and just under 20MPH.

Photo-2015-05-16-18-26-35_7585 by wake9, on Flickr

Then I went for what I would consider a good cruise across the lake, close to 25mph. This is that speed that felt like everyone is chilling in the boat, and no one is holding on to their hat, you know what I mean.

Photo-2015-05-16-18-27-14_7586 by wake9, on Flickr

Its not really broken in yet, so I didn't want to go WOT, but I did get it up to close to 35MPH and it felt like I had a few MPH left, I bet top speed is around 37-40.

Those are very comfortable speeds and so far I have not sensed even minuscule slippage or cavitation with this prop even when fully weighted and at higher speeds. We haven't tried surfing yet at 13 mph, but it feels super solid and much better than the 1235.

I gotta think that the Indmar 400, with the extra torque is playing a strong role in this. It reminds me of my F150 Ecoboost where I am towing uphill and it doesn't downshift, it just has buttloads of torque. The 400 motor just seems to never be working hard.

The other thing that is really interesting to me is how the boat is handling at low speeds, the more I drive it, the more I notice how much different it is. I gotta think this is all due to the prop, but could the torque of the motor have an impact on this as well?

As I said before, manipulating the boat around the dock is so much easier and positive, and there is never a need to burp the throttle forward to get the boat to turn. I just go into gear forward and it just turns, positively. I noticed something new, though. I normally have to sit in the ballast boy seat when surfing for obvious reasons. With this boat there is plenty of push so that I sat all day in the observers seat when surfing regular and I drove when going goofy. I have a brain block when turning the boat around after dropping the surfer. It is the proper thing to do to pull throttle up and let the boat naturally turn to the high side and let the waves pass you sideways with your high side facing the wave. I don't know if it is because I have ridden a motorcycle all my life or I am just mentally challenged, I ALWAYS turn to the lean without thinking, I can't help it. When I did this on the previous Z3, I would turn towards the lean and put in gear, and I would have to burp or wait a bit for the boat to turn because I am fighting the natural tendancy of the boat to turn toward the high side. This drives my son nuts, and now he is even more beside himself, because this boat doesn't care which way you turn. If I drop the throttle and then turn to the right (surfing goofy) and put in gear, it just instantly goes right.

I know that doesn't sound like a big deal, and I am not saying it makes the boat better or anything, but its a VERY noticeable difference and it is tantalizing my curious brain. ;-)

I would love to see the torque curve of the Indmar 400 vs the PCM 409. I am guessing the Indmar must have all of its torque down at the lower end where you want it, because the 409 says it has 492 ft lbs of torque, and it sure doesn't feel that way.
Old     (WakeDirt)      Join Date: Jun 2011       05-18-2015, 4:34 PM Reply   
Nice colors, that is one badass boat. Oroville is looking dismal....any updates on Camp Far West's levels?
Old     (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       05-18-2015, 4:46 PM Reply   
I got in touch with CFW and they said they are only about 7 feet down
Old     (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       05-18-2015, 5:16 PM Reply   
It is also supposed to rain this week, so I think we should be good.
Old     (WakeDirt)      Join Date: Jun 2011       05-18-2015, 6:25 PM Reply   
Sweet
Old     (CarZin)      Join Date: Feb 2011       06-24-2015, 2:00 PM Reply   
It seems like in a ton of shots the bilge is running. Is that normal, or just unlucky editing?
Old     (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       06-24-2015, 6:47 PM Reply   
lol, its funny, when I did that video, I didn't think anyone would really notice, but everyone did. Its not the bilge. This was done with JUST the SURF XL system which is about 200 lbs less on goofy and 350 lbs less on regular than we run now. Its VERY close to optimum for our use, but not quite. So when you fill up the surf xl the bags will vent out about 5% due to the pressure when they fill up. I like my bags bursting. So we kept filling to get every lb for the best wake. Later we cross drained and vented and then they won't vent the last 5%, and most people that would buy it wouldn't need to do that, but that is just us.

I like our bags FULL, you know what I mean?

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