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Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       06-26-2015, 7:02 AM Reply   
Thanks for the tip man with 2 first names...
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       06-26-2015, 7:07 AM Reply   
What? No thesis?
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       06-26-2015, 7:09 AM Reply   
Jack or Henry...

No... Promise... Come up with something better than fart jokes man... Cmon...!
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       06-26-2015, 7:13 AM Reply   
This is what I call an EPIC picture!
Attached Images
 
Old     (LukeR103)      Join Date: Apr 2010       06-26-2015, 7:15 AM Reply   
The real MVP has arrived! All hail Chattwake! lol

edit - needs more ballast!

Last edited by LukeR103; 06-26-2015 at 7:16 AM. Reason: MOAR BALLAST
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       06-26-2015, 7:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceM View Post
Jack or Henry...

No... Promise... Come up with something better than fart jokes man... Cmon...!
Perhaps that went over your head, it wasn't a fart joke, it was an implication of your holier than though take on this. Sorry I had to spell it out, I just assumed with your infinite wisdom you would pick up on that
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       06-26-2015, 7:20 AM Reply   
Yes, Im an Epic fan boy I guess... But I do just love BOATS period!!!

Good job with the pix!

Lance MOUNTAIN
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       06-26-2015, 7:21 AM Reply   
Jack or Henry,

I enjoy the more sarcastic you... Much better than the 3rd grade jokes... But still not up to the level worthy of replying with actual, shall we say, smack?

Lance MOUNTAIN

Last edited by LanceM; 06-26-2015 at 7:30 AM.
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       06-26-2015, 7:30 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceM View Post
Jack or Henry,

I enjoy the more sarcastic you... Must better than the 3rd grade jokes... But still not up to the level worthy of replying with actual, shall we say, smack?

Lance MOUNTAIN
And yet you did. Poor spelling, grammar & all.
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       06-26-2015, 7:32 AM Reply   
Jack or Henry,

You got something to say, say it... Don't want to try and drag it out of you...

Lance MOUNTAIN
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       06-26-2015, 7:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceM View Post
Jack or Henry,

You got something to say, say it... Don't want to try and drag it out of you...

Lance MOUNTAIN
I can't type any slower for you.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       06-26-2015, 7:55 AM Reply   
Attached Images
 
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       06-26-2015, 7:58 AM Reply   
Jack or Henry,

So you want to say I'm long winded... Ok... But let me say this... Your short little posts, while not long winded, add to the overall length of the thread and serve no purpose other than to try and "push" my buttons. So do us all a favor and stick to the subject and leave the personal, grammar, spelling, "all" and slowness attacks to yourself.. Move along troll...

And lets get back to Epic bashing or Epic Fanboys and the much needed pix of wake boats...

Lance MOUNTAIN

Last edited by LanceM; 06-26-2015 at 8:05 AM.
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       06-26-2015, 8:00 AM Reply   
I am not this guy... Love the name... But I am not him... He does look like some star though... Cant put my finger on it...

Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       06-26-2015, 8:13 AM Reply   
Old     (TTyler89)      Join Date: Jun 2015       06-26-2015, 8:14 AM Reply   
This thread instantly rose 4K notches.
Old     (TC_Mastercraf_X5)      Join Date: Feb 2013       06-26-2015, 8:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockthis View Post
Man , I had a way worse experience with a company. I spent my energy getting it resolved , instead of posting on wakeworld. Posting on here is not going to help your situation. Have you ever heard the saying about catching flys with honey? anyway your are starting to sound like a like complainer. Good luck. FYI not many companies would take the boat back for this, they will just fix it.
When i had an incident with a dealer I posted it on WW and that was what actually got them listening. Some of their high dollar clients started asking questions which all of sudden made my issue more important.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       06-26-2015, 8:28 AM Reply   
Old     (randv)      Join Date: May 2015       06-26-2015, 8:35 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceM View Post

Not with you... The buck hasn't stopped at TAL at all, bee lined it straight to Epic...
Agree with this statement. I don't get the venom against Chris. Lesson to learn from TAL is keep off the public forum and the venom goes to Epic. Notice Chris hasn't posted for a bit, and I don't blame him. We will now all be the worse off & manufacturers will quickly learn that to post on a public forum just opens the gates to 'internet rants'.

Manufacturers can't be expected to indemnify all their dealers from poor work / errors. If they had to do that these boats would be even more expensive than they are now (and I'm an "insert overpriced wake boat" 2015 Malibu owner). Dealers earn a margin because their job is to add value. Sure the manufacturers need to get involved, and it seems Epic did try, sure we can argue how far they should go, but the transaction was between JJ and TAL.

Honestly your best tactic JJ would have been to work TAL really hard, and if no joy, go legal. At the same time you should have tried to build a good working relationship with Chris at Epic, and get him to want to help you. In that I think you have failed!!

You have owned boats JJ, you must know that they are not like cars. Boats need dealer support. I have a ("insert overpriced wake boat") new Malibu, and I do not expect it to be trouble free. My dealer will be needed at some point. If you buy with no local dealer support, you are going to need to be a great mechanic, or have a great relationship with the manufacturer, and you have just blown that!

Please come back Chris, great to have a manufacturer on here that may actually know about wake boats, as opposed to all of us 'forum' experts. I might not own an Epic, but I'd respect your insights.

Last edited by randv; 06-26-2015 at 8:39 AM. Reason: Spelling!
Old     (whiteflashwatersports1)      Join Date: Dec 2012       06-26-2015, 9:23 AM Reply   
Lance is a world class DB. As a boater in general I hate to say this because Karma is a bi@#h. I hope you break down and need a tow and everyone that stops says I cant tow you until you drain your tanks and aww sh$% you cant because your battery is dead and you just sit and rot. Stop being an ass and get over yourself and your EPIC.

In one of your long winded posts you state "All I do know is, I would have handled this completely differently than him.... That does not mean Im a better person, just a different one..."

Why don't you help out your fellow EPIC owner and spell out a step by step process of how you would have handled this? That way JJ can get on the water and enjoy his boat and maybe become a fanboy like you.
Old     (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       06-26-2015, 9:36 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
This is what I call an EPIC picture!
Chatt, I know it's not wakeworld related, but I think Caitlyn Jenner would add nicely to that collage.
Old     (TX_Chris)      Join Date: Jun 2015       06-26-2015, 9:36 AM Reply   
Hey JJ,

Nice cherry picking and side stepping, brah...


Quote:
Originally Posted by SICKSPEED View Post
Holy crap, where do I start.
@ TX_Chris
1. Did you actually look at the low-res pics that TAL posted of the boat? Reminder that they were first posted in Feb. Looking at the boat you can see it has both tower pins, so one could have been lost in transit. Sure. Any other damage cannot be seen from these low-res pics. For example, you really think you can see spider-cracks on the swim step from 20 feet away in a 6" photo? Thats impossible. I can however, BARELY JUST BARELY make out the damage to the trailer and the missing light although its VERY hard to tell in the pic. (Great photos for selling damaged goods tho.) I will post pics from work when I have a chance and PROVE this to you. Btw if I was lying about the damage dont you think Chris would have mentioned this by now?
So where are the high res, resent picks you asked TAL to send you while you were looking to buy the boat? You *DID* ask for recent high res picks for a $60K purchase that you were not going to lay eyes on, riiiiiiiiiight? You didn't just go off of some months old low res picks that couldn't tell you if your swim platform had cracks, riiiiiiight?

I didn't say you were lying about the damage. I said you were lying about thinking it was Mastercraft and wondered what else you could be lying about. For the record, I don't think you lied about the boat being damaged when you received it. I do think you are deliberately misleading people about your role in deciding a shipper. I think you, at the VERY LEAST, agreed to have someone pull your trailer up to WA. And more than likely, you asked TAL if they could deliver it. Have you ever pulled a trailer for over a couple hours on the road? There are a million things that can go wrong. You really got lucky. It's this kind of "they did me wrong because I went off my imagination of how perfect my 75% of market value purchase is going to be" mindset is what drove me to post in he first place. You are the controller of your own reality. Make with it what you will, but don't complain about how everyone else took you to the wrong place while you were in the driver's seat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SICKSPEED View Post
2. When I said I didnt blame Epic for the boats condition, I meant that they probably didnt go out and trash the boat themselves, and that the boat probably left their factory as a new boat should (at one point). What I dont like is that they they seem to allow their shoddy dealer network to get away with. There is no 180 here. Same as day one. You`re just interpreting my words a bit differently than they were intended. No worries.
Then you should have said... You see, when you make a blanket statement, people are going to assume you meant what you said, not what you meant to say but didn't say. And for the record, I don't like TAL and I don't like that Epic was/is doing business with TAL. I know it is hard to break into a dealer market, mostly due to exclusivity clauses by the big manufacturers, and few dealers can tell Malibu or Nautique to "f-off, I'm going with Epic!" and stay in business. The lack of name recognition alone will destroy the dealer's revenue. But none of this excuses TAL from what they did or from Epic to continue to do business with TAL without some MAJOR changes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SICKSPEED View Post
3. TAL and BRAD from Epic were originally on the same page about the boat showing up at TAL missing parts and with some damage. LATER, in an email that I shared with you all here, Chris seemed to suggest that basically ALL the issues came from TALs "old guy with an Escalade" towing it to my house. You guys can draw whatever conclusion you like. If you want a better answer please ask Chris to elaborate. Maybe he can shed a little more light. Chris and I have disagreed in point of view but he has not called me a liar, and I also am not calling him one. I have no personal beef with him or Epic. (Like Lance seems to think.)
Well in your original post, you attributed many things to the Old Man in the Escalade (can we give him a fake name... how about Oscar?) I don't know Brad personally, but the guy seems like a yes-man in the first encounter... then he runs off to find out what he should say. Good guy, and gets what you need from him, but not the critical thinker that would make me believe what he says of the cuff. Just my impression from limited interaction with him. Maybe I'm wrong. lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by SICKSPEED View Post
4. These really arent "warranty claims". Warranty is for parts that break during use. Please remember that I have yet to use this boat. It was sold to me as having one hour on the engine from a factory water test. When it got here the meter said "2 hours". Thats close enough for me.
This is a manufacturer backing up HIS AUTHORIZED DEALER who sold a boat that was grossly misrepresented (in my opinion). My point was that the boat was sold as a new boat and nothing less. The fact that it even HAS a warranty is irrelevant at this point.
A good, local dealer will always take care of these kinds of issues, even after the sale. But that is a customer relations move, not a warranty. The problem here, TAL isn't a good dealer and they are not local (to you), so this complicates things, to say the least. But you knew this when you bought the boat. I mean, you knew they were not local, and you had access to their online reputation. So I am not crying for you, bro. It was your decision to buy from a POS 2K miles away... but you got one hell of a deal! I don't say that sarcastically. I think you are under emphasizing the important aspect that you purposefully chose to get into this situation, and even with all of the problems, you are still in black by over $20K - that is a lot of dough and spending a portion of that savings could easily make all of these problems go away in less time that waiting for anyone else to make your 75% of retail purchase look like a 100% of retail purchase.

So how did the shipping arrangements go down? Surely you know what it really costs to freight ship your boat across the nation. When you heard a they were going to ship it for (I assume) something like 50% off of the going shipping rate, did you ask any questions? Did you demand anything be done differently? It seems like you took the cheap way out multiple times here and you are complaining that you got what you paid for.
Old     (TX_Chris)      Join Date: Jun 2015       06-26-2015, 9:50 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteflashwatersports1 View Post
Lance is a world class DB. As a boater in general I hate to say this because Karma is a bi@#h. I hope you break down and need a tow and everyone that stops says I cant tow you until you drain your tanks and aww sh$% you cant because your battery is dead and you just sit and rot. Stop being an ass and get over yourself and your EPIC.
Wow, classy.
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       06-26-2015, 9:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteflashwatersports1 View Post
Lance is a world class DB. As a boater in general I hate to say this because Karma is a bi@#h. I hope you break down and need a tow and everyone that stops says I cant tow you until you drain your tanks and aww sh$% you cant because your battery is dead and you just sit and rot. Stop being an ass and get over yourself and your EPIC.

In one of your long winded posts you state "All I do know is, I would have handled this completely differently than him.... That does not mean Im a better person, just a different one..."

Why don't you help out your fellow EPIC owner and spell out a step by step process of how you would have handled this? That way JJ can get on the water and enjoy his boat and maybe become a fanboy like you.
Awhh... Love the colorful language... Well, everyone helps out everyone on the lake, jerk or not... So I will continue to (be an ass) have an opinion on were JJ went wrong, since he is defending himself.

I tried to help JJ out in the beginning... He isnt providing any info that would allow anyone to help him.

LanceM
Old     (TTyler89)      Join Date: Jun 2015       06-26-2015, 9:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
I think I already covered that, brah
Old     (randv)      Join Date: May 2015       06-26-2015, 10:07 AM Reply   
Not sure I agree TX_Chris that at $60k this thing offers a saving of $20k from the real price. Is that right? Do 2014 stock boat Epics really go for $80k!! It's a genuine question.

I have no knowledge on these boats and they may indeed be great boats. I have never been in one (or actually even knowingly seen one!), but $80k is way more than a 2014 stock A22 Axis would go for, and close to some stock 2014 Malibu VLXs'. Are Epics really a higher price than Axis?

I really don't know, (so maybe should get out more), but for the lesser known wake brands (again, I mean relating to brand recognition and market position, not quality / innovation), I'd have thought $60k to $65k sounds about normal for a stock 2014 boat.

Last edited by randv; 06-26-2015 at 10:16 AM.
Old     (jws2)      Join Date: Apr 2015       06-26-2015, 11:23 AM Reply   
I just fine it funny TX Chris is here bashing JJ and his join date is June 2015, and from Texas?
Old     (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-26-2015, 11:27 AM Reply   
Think we are past the Boat Buns thread postings at this point. This is rather hilarious at this point. In the mean time JJ sits while the rest of us ride....
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       06-26-2015, 11:39 AM Reply   
Yea 60k is too much for a left over epic IMO.

Boy things are getting entertaining
Old     (Cabledog)      Join Date: Dec 2013       06-26-2015, 11:42 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebordr11 View Post
Chatt, I know it's not wakeworld related, but I think Caitlyn Jenner would add nicely to that collage.
Actually that would ruin it.
Old     (augie_09)      Join Date: Mar 2011       06-26-2015, 11:44 AM Reply   
Any WW members near JJ that can take him out for a few sets? Boy needs some water time to ease his mind.
Old     (jws2)      Join Date: Apr 2015       06-26-2015, 11:51 AM Reply   
^^^^^^ there we go!!!
Old     (Cabledog)      Join Date: Dec 2013       06-26-2015, 11:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by augie_09 View Post
Any WW members near JJ that can take him out for a few sets? Boy needs some water time to ease his mind.
We're in Western WA not Spokane but we will be out this weekend. Plenty of room in the V226. Stereo works, 2 tower pins, and I've got one of those ECM's. Plus an ice chest full of beer. Bring your own talent.
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       06-26-2015, 12:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by augie_09 View Post
Any WW members near JJ that can take him out for a few sets? Boy needs some water time to ease his mind.
That's the spirit!
Old     (MalibuGold)      Join Date: Oct 2014       06-26-2015, 12:42 PM Reply   
Jeeze, leave for a few hours and this think went South faster than Elton John!
Old     (WakeDirt)      Join Date: Jun 2011       06-26-2015, 1:42 PM Reply   
This thread is amazing!!! Lance M is basically Lon with a tucked in collared shirt in dad shorts. WW has been missing a thread like this for a while
Old     (Thrall)      Join Date: Oct 2010       06-26-2015, 2:04 PM Reply   
Love reading this and nothing sarcastic to add unfortunately, but whoever said you're taking a risk by towing your boat cross country, especially a random person who could give a ***** less about anything other than the paycheck when it gets to point B, is spot on.
Learned my lesson, albeit not a catastrophe, when I bought my X2.
Bought the boat sight unseen after MANY pics and conversations with the owner. Banks did the $ deal. No problems until delivery and the issues were purely unintentional.
Seller's buddy was driving my way cross country with a 3/4 ton just by chance, so I agreed to pay him gas $ for the first leg of the trip, 600 mi to my house which was literally 1/4mi out of his way.
Told the seller, who was not a boat guy (explained the 40 hrs only in 4 years) to make sure tires full and oil hubs good and DONT put the cover on. Said I didn't care if it was dirty, wet, covers in bugs, NO cover.
Well, never filled tires. When I drove 3 hrs out to bring him a spare after a blowout (I knew the trailer had no spare), rest of the tires were like 35psi hot. Cracked a fender, knocked out 2 trailer lights and he had the cover on. Scratched the p!ss out of the black gel.
Had I towed it, may have had the blowout but less likely cause the tires would have been full and would have had no scratches.
Chalked it up to lesson learned and boat was a good enough deal that I wasn't bitter about it.

Last edited by Thrall; 06-26-2015 at 2:05 PM. Reason: None
Old     (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       06-26-2015, 3:07 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceM View Post
Oh and I can say this as well, since it was bought on ebay... If you went through them, you would have you money back 100%, they would back you if what you are saying is true. Have you investigated this yet JJ?

LanceM
Not true. I bought a riding jacket on Ebay, paid $450. Never got the jacket, went through paypal and the sellers account was closed up immediately after receiving payment, Went through Ebay, who had a $250 max insurance policy, and got $250 back from Ebay. I still lost $200. And never found that jacket again. (it was MJ's Nike street bike riding jacket that Joe Rocket made one year. It was so sick. )

So I highly doubt that Ebay will refund JJ $60,000. Worth a shot? probably not, most likely a gigantic waste of time, but maybe he can get his $250 back.

And I still can not believe that a few of you are hammering JJ on this. In today's world of Internet everything, buying a BRAND NEW BOAT FULL FACTORY WARRANTY from Epic's stated and confirmed Authorized Dealer, using said dealers shipping company ( named "TAL's old man shipping" apparently ) and getting a boat that does not run, has dead batteries, punctures in the seats, missing computer components, non working stereo, and has SCRATCHES (bad enough if it was ONE scratch)..... this is unacceptable. Hindsight is 20/10, as I like to say, and if you ask JJ, i bet he would say in hindsight, he would not buy this boat again, and not buy anything from TAL, and not buy a new boat without an authorized dealer close by, and not spend $60,000 sight unseen. But hammering him about all his "mistakes" is dumb, because he was wronged, imo, and needs to be made right.

And back when Epic first came out, I was stoked on the idea, 4k ballast, small company, great idea... I even like how the boat looks. I decided against it for a few reasons, primarily I did not like the wake, did not like how to get a usable wake I had to have the bow 1/2 tank, and the port 3/4 and the starboard 2/3 full... or however the set up is..... too finicky for me... but I am not an anti-epic anything. Lance Mountain, you seem to have a vested interest in this thread, were the first one to mention "epic fan boy" in your own post and I do not believe anyone has called you that yet, and like to point fingers and call anyone who sides with JJ an "anti-epic" fanboy or whatever.

Also, did you like that picture of the 4 year old ECU/ECM that JJ posted???.... slowly, but daily solidifying his case and confirming his claims....
Old     (Medium)      Join Date: Aug 2011       06-26-2015, 4:50 PM Reply   
I bet it was Lance that jacked the ECU from JJ's boat and scratched it all up...
Old     (DuckHuntin1)      Join Date: Jul 2013       06-26-2015, 4:59 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
This is what I call an EPIC picture!
WAIT A SECOND STOP THE THREAD! Is that boat's name SAUSAGEGETTER?
Old     (DuckHuntin1)      Join Date: Jul 2013       06-26-2015, 5:00 PM Reply   
Now that's funny right there
Old     (cla17)      Join Date: Mar 2002       06-26-2015, 11:39 PM Reply   
WOW!!! Happy to see some colorful conversation(WITH PICS!) though not happy that it is via a situation that is costing JJ water time. Unfortunately, progress has been slow with a service agent that is backed up with summer work and is currently moving shops.

And though Chattwake's ECU/Contra meme made me do a spit take it seems that the ECU wasn't an issue after all. The service agent had an Essex boat he has in the shop confused with this Epic and he referenced the wrong part. It is a Communication Module that is missing from under the dash. This Communication Module has not yet arrived from Merc so there has been no diagnosis on the electrical issues so far. Hopefully this part is all we need to power the stereo and clear the engine errors and it either arrived late today or will on Monday.

I am continuing to push for resolution on JJ's issues.
Old     (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       06-26-2015, 11:41 PM Reply   
I forgot how great that EPIC thread pic was! There is some real gold in there!
Old     (Cabledog)      Join Date: Dec 2013       06-27-2015, 12:13 AM Reply   
Very interesting, let's see how this development evolves. Chess not,checkers....
Old     (Shockthis)      Join Date: May 2014       06-27-2015, 5:27 AM Reply   
Pictures of how it arrived after shipping.
But I thought it was a product of Mastercraft.
Sorry wrong picture, this one actually works
Attached Images
 
Old     (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       06-27-2015, 9:39 AM Reply   
21,310 Views…clearly an EPIC thread.

Having been thru this twice now I feel JJ's pain. This stuff happens on hand made one off products(wake boats). Company/ dealer response is key. Both times I bought the boats in dealers in person. First was in 99 and the dealer was absolutely terrible to deal with but the manufacturer stepped up. They paid to return the boat to their factory over the winter(it was a crappy summer fighting it), reconditioned the boat to factory new, and paid my payments from day one until I was satisfied with the boat the following spring. That was from what most of you would call a poor manufacturer(Bayliner/ US Marine). It wasn't easy and they sure didn't do it first problem first time I asked. But in the end persistence paid off. Second was with one of My Tige's. It was a electrical problem that the dealer could not find/ correct. Tige was slow about it but in the end did fly an engineer up who found and corrected the problem and the boat was trouble free after. It did take longer than I thought it should have (14 weeks prime summer) but in the end they did solve the problem.

So yes I can confirm manufacturers do send out techs/ engineers to back their products in the field. I know the Tige dealer here has multiple times had factory personnel come up(at no cost to them) to help fix boats.
Old     (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       06-27-2015, 11:38 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by randv View Post
Not sure I agree TX_Chris that at $60k this thing offers a saving of $20k from the real price. Is that right? Do 2014 stock boat Epics really go for $80k!! It's a genuine question.

I have no knowledge on these boats and they may indeed be great boats. I have never been in one (or actually even knowingly seen one!), but $80k is way more than a 2014 stock A22 Axis would go for, and close to some stock 2014 Malibu VLXs'. Are Epics really a higher price than Axis?

I really don't know, (so maybe should get out more), but for the lesser known wake brands (again, I mean relating to brand recognition and market position, not quality / innovation), I'd have thought $60k to $65k sounds about normal for a stock 2014 boat.
My thoughts exactly
Old     (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       06-27-2015, 11:41 AM Reply   
Squirrel........
Old     (TX_Chris)      Join Date: Jun 2015       06-27-2015, 2:36 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by randv View Post
Not sure I agree TX_Chris that at $60k this thing offers a saving of $20k from the real price. Is that right? Do 2014 stock boat Epics really go for $80k!! It's a genuine question.

I have no knowledge on these boats and they may indeed be great boats. I have never been in one (or actually even knowingly seen one!), but $80k is way more than a 2014 stock A22 Axis would go for, and close to some stock 2014 Malibu VLXs'. Are Epics really a higher price than Axis?

I really don't know, (so maybe should get out more), but for the lesser known wake brands (again, I mean relating to brand recognition and market position, not quality / innovation), I'd have thought $60k to $65k sounds about normal for a stock 2014 boat.
I don't know for sure, but I am pretty sure. Please provide evidence to the contrary... By the way, I was the second or third person to quote that price reduction. So now than one of us thought $80,000

NADA didn't have a 2014... But a rough "apples to apples" comparison is attached.

As far as it being "an older model" ... My experience is the price is not dropped significantly for a year or few ago boats. I tried that reasoning when I was shopping around for my last boat, too no avail. Dealers told me that the boat is still just as good and hasn't lost its value any. Maybe he was just blowing smoke...
Attached Images
  
Old     (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       06-27-2015, 7:11 PM Reply   
Try and resale that Epic for more than that A22. Another Epic Fail! Won't happen.
Old     (SICKSPEED)      Join Date: May 2015       06-27-2015, 10:06 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cla17 View Post
WOW!!! Happy to see some colorful conversation(WITH PICS!) though not happy that it is via a situation that is costing JJ water time. Unfortunately, progress has been slow with a service agent that is backed up with summer work and is currently moving shops.

And though Chattwake's ECU/Contra meme made me do a spit take it seems that the ECU wasn't an issue after all. The service agent had an Essex boat he has in the shop confused with this Epic and he referenced the wrong part. It is a Communication Module that is missing from under the dash. This Communication Module has not yet arrived from Merc so there has been no diagnosis on the electrical issues so far. Hopefully this part is all we need to power the stereo and clear the engine errors and it either arrived late today or will on Monday.

I am continuing to push for resolution on JJ's issues.
Havent read all this stuff but, correction for Chris. The service agent never told us the wrong part or part number. By the time I told Brad at Epic that they had figured out what was missing and gave him the part number, he told me, no worries I already know what it is and sent it out to you UPS ground.
I can show you via emails from me to Brad or you can ask him to confirm.

There was no error from the repair facility regarding this.
PS - Chattwakes Contra MEME had me falling off my damn chair!!!
Old     (cla17)      Join Date: Mar 2002       06-28-2015, 1:08 AM Reply   
JJ - Yes, the ECU confusion could have been something mistakenly repeated by me from early on in this thread. And my insistence to "FIX THIS" probably inspired Brad to send our service ECU out too quickly without verification in hopes of getting things going. And my repeating of the ECU problem to Don's probably added confusion. In any case, hopefully the communication module is an easier fix.
Old     (SICKSPEED)      Join Date: May 2015       06-28-2015, 1:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TX_Chris View Post
Hey JJ,

1. For the record, I don't think you lied about the boat being damaged when you received it. I do think you are deliberately misleading people about your role in deciding a shipper. I think you, at the VERY LEAST, agreed to have someone pull your trailer up to WA. And more than likely, you asked TAL if they could deliver it.


2. It's this kind of "they did me wrong because I went off my imagination of how perfect my 75% of market value purchase is going to be" mindset is what drove me to post in he first place.

3. The problem here, TAL isn't a good dealer and they are not local (to you), so this complicates things, to say the least. But you knew this when you bought the boat. I mean, you knew they were not local, and you had access to their online reputation. So I am not crying for you, bro. It was your decision to buy from a POS 2K miles away... but you got one hell of a deal! I don't say that sarcastically.
4. I think you are under emphasizing the important aspect that you purposefully chose to get into this situation, and even with all of the problems, you are still in black by over $20K - that is a lot of dough and spending a portion of that savings could easily make all of these problems go away in less time that waiting for anyone else to make your 75% of retail purchase look like a 100% of retail purchase.

5. So how did the shipping arrangements go down? Surely you know what it really costs to freight ship your boat across the nation. When you heard a they were going to ship it for (I assume) something like 50% off of the going shipping rate, did you ask any questions? Did you demand anything be done differently? It seems like you took the cheap way out multiple times here and you are complaining that you got what you paid for.
Ok, TX Chris, seriously how many times are you going to call me a liar, BRAH????
Have a little class.

1. You have nothing to base this on and you are flat out wrong. How would I get a TAL EMPLOYEE to bring the boat to my house if I arranged the shipping? You think I went on SHIPMYBOAT.COM and just happened to come up with the same clowns I was buying the boat from? Duh, hello??? I also have pics to prove this, dont make me post them and prove you wrong (again). Im tired of digging up and posting pics every time some clown trumps up a conspiracy theory.

2. I passed up an offer from another dealer to buy a new 2016 for $68,000. If you had any sense at all you would realize that the sticker price on a new boat (or any new vehicle for that matter) is grossly inflated to give dealers room to negotiate an ACTUAL sales price.

3. We dont have a local manufacturer or even a local dealer for anything other than Sanger or Yamaha in my area (almost an hour away.) Anything I buy would be worked on by a local shop. I`m fine with that. Thats really not the issue here

4. You`re so wrong. See my response to #1. A 2016 (read: two years newer boat fresh off the production line) could have been bought for $68,000 with minimal negotiations (probably less with some hard bargaining. I have email proof of this also but I prefer not to share it as it could be hurtful to that dealer if I showed everyone on here. I wish I would have taken this offer. Only reason I didnt is because that boat wasnt going to come off the assembly line for 4-8 weeks. Guess what? Turns out its already been that long for me to rebuild this one...

5. It went down like this. I offered them 55k. They declined. There was some talk about 60k but I wasnt ready to commit at that price. They asked me where I needed to be. I said if I could buy the boat and get it shipped for $60,000 we would have a deal. They agreed and I paid the $500 deposit via paypal to secure the deal.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-28-2015, 11:02 PM Reply   
I'm going to be a little bit sad when this saga finally gets resolved, it really has been most entertaining.
Old     (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       06-29-2015, 10:06 AM Reply   
JJ: If Chris is helping you behind the scenes to get you parts then you really need to stop with the nit picking and just agree to disagree on some of these happenings. As much as you are frustrated Chris at Epic is your only help in getting back on the water successfully so why keep poking at it. As others have said, he is the one that you should be befriending the most at this point.
Old     (lashburn1)      Join Date: Oct 2014       06-29-2015, 2:14 PM Reply   
..this thread has spread to other forums as a bit of a Novelty read...

I must say, I have had better luck not stomping my feet about Stuff,,,, but if its that bad...maybe I would..
Old     (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       06-29-2015, 3:30 PM Reply   
RED gets banned in 3......2.......1.................................. .............
Old     (Nordicron)      Join Date: Aug 2011       06-29-2015, 4:39 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebordr11 View Post
RED gets banned in 3......2.......1.................................. .............

Luv it!
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       06-29-2015, 5:57 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebordr11 View Post
RED gets banned in 3......2.......1.................................. .............

Hahahaha yea I saw that
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       06-30-2015, 7:05 AM Reply   
So are we going on another week with no resolution to the engine and stereo issues?
Old     (Redheadd)      Join Date: Apr 2014       06-30-2015, 7:27 AM Reply   
Burn!
Old     (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-01-2015, 3:09 PM Reply   
Don't let it die.....Going on 36 hours with no post....
Old     (brodee42)      Join Date: Jun 2015       07-01-2015, 6:54 PM Reply   
^^^ Updates? Comments? Anything...

Last edited by brodee42; 07-01-2015 at 6:56 PM. Reason: ...
Old     (lashburn1)      Join Date: Oct 2014       07-02-2015, 8:26 AM Reply   
Hopefully, they took this conversation OFF line, those they could make some Actual progress , instead of a multi Page diss-fest only dragging the Epic brand down.
Old     (bunji69)      Join Date: Apr 2013       07-02-2015, 10:24 AM Reply   
I especially love how Chris, Epic's CEO actually says specifically in an email back to JJ that TAL is a bad dealer. And JJ should've known that by all the bad reviews online. Yet, as the CEO of Epic, he still allows TAL to be an authorized dealer. That itself says alot.

Last edited by bunji69; 07-02-2015 at 10:26 AM.
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       07-02-2015, 11:07 AM Reply   
if tal is a bad dealer of not, I am sure Epic is not in a place to loose dealers, with the boat options in the market, Epic is far from the top choice for most buyers.
Old     (bunji69)      Join Date: Apr 2013       07-02-2015, 12:27 PM Reply   
I agree. TAL was probably a last resort bottom of the barrel choice for Epic. They needed to move inventory from another dealership and TAL was probably the only company they could find that was willing to take it. Again, that says alot about the direction of Epic.
Old     (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       07-02-2015, 12:48 PM Reply   
Prime example,

Go to the thread that just got started about best brands or models. NO ONE LISTS EPIC. NOT ONCE!!!!!
Old     (King12)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-02-2015, 1:55 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DatTexasBoy View Post
Prime example,



Go to the thread that just got started about best brands or models. NO ONE LISTS EPIC. NOT ONCE!!!!!

Not true mastercraft was on every list!!
Old     (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       07-02-2015, 1:57 PM Reply   
Touche
Old     (Griggs24)      Join Date: Oct 2013       07-02-2015, 2:26 PM Reply   
I own a newer EPIC and love my boat. It does have its problems and i have never had an issue dealing directly with EPIC. I do not have a dealer within 80 miles of me so i go straight to the source. If i could afford a new G that's what i would have but like most working class people that much for a boat is just out of reach. I have just as much fun behind my EPIC as most people have behind there 100K+ rigs. All the bashing is over one boat that probably left the factory in great condition. I agree that JJ's boat needs to be fixed fast. But bashing EPIC for this is just ridiculous as they have sold alot of boats without this problem. TAL needs to be taken to the cleaners on this one because that's where the problem is. I am not trying to be an EPIC fan boy this is just my option on this situation. In 10 years I plan on having a G in my boat house.....used of course. As for Chris I give him big props for one building a boat & brand out of his garage and turning it into something other can enjoy and two being the CEO of this company and coming on a public forum to let people know whats going on. Cut him a break because most of the people on here are hating because they own a different boat. at the end of the day we all love the water and IMO if the boat floats and your having fun do what you do.
Old     (bunji69)      Join Date: Apr 2013       07-02-2015, 3:32 PM Reply   
Recap(May be missing something, bust i think this is the jist):
JJ made a deal through an Authorized Epic Dealer (TAL) to buy a brand new 2014 Epic Boat and negotiates shipping into the deal. JJ Pays dealer the agreed price, and dealer(TAL) coordinates shipping the brand new boat to JJ. JJ receives the boat and it is in less than new condition and won't start. After contacting the dealer regarding the issues, he is informed that the boat was sold to him how they received it from Epic. The dealer says JJ needs to contact Epic directly. Then JJ finds out the error code, starting issue and stereo issue are possibly due to a missing module in the electronics. At this point JJ is told by an Epic employee that the boat was a repo that was sold to the dealer(TAL) for resale. JJ was told the dealer(TAL) needs to rectify the situation. JJ Posts his frustration here. CEO of Epic (Chris) sees the post and replies that he will do everything he can to get JJ on the water as quick as possible. Epic CEO (Chris) has his employee (Brad) coordinate with JJ on getting the situation resolved. JJ forwards all necessary info, including who he is using as a servicing agent, to Epic Employee(Brad) via email. Days and weeks go by and JJ has to run around jumping through flaming hoops to get his brand new Epic boat put back together the way it should have been delivered to him in the first place. Epic sends the incorrect part. JJ re-posts his frustration and lack of progress here. Epic CEO re-posts defending Epic and the Dealer and says the issues were from the shipping company that JJ chose, even though it was the authorized dealer(TAL) that coordinated the shipping. The Epic CEO(Chris) also says they never got the information from JJ regarding the who the Servicing agent is, and that's why the situation was still not resolved. Even though the Epic employee assigned to deal with the situation(Brad), got all of the information from JJ weeks earlier. Every post here the CEO of Epic defends the authorized dealer(TAL) but is adamant that he wants to resolve this situation to get JJ on the water with his Epic as quickly as possible. All the while he's sending PM's or emails to JJ saying that the authorized dealer (TAL) is not a good dealer and JJ should've known better based on all of the negative online reviews regarding that dealer.

Bottom line, a far a few between Epic buyer(JJ), who is potentially the best advertising a struggling boat company could possibly have(A new proud owner out on local lakes daily advertising their boats in a positive way to other potential boat buyers), has been given the run around, put in the middle of the blame game, and given a bunch of false excuses as to why he still has a Brand New 2014 Epic boat that does not run.

Now we are all wondering what the current status of the situation is...........

Last edited by bunji69; 07-02-2015 at 3:35 PM.
Old     (brown2249)      Join Date: Apr 2014       07-02-2015, 9:05 PM Reply   
Oh my. That was Awsome. My prediction. Is that this boat will never run.

Epic shenanigans
Old     (Medium)      Join Date: Aug 2011       07-02-2015, 10:16 PM Reply   
Kevin, you forgot to include the part about all the Wake World members yelling at JJ, Chris/Epic, and each other. And Chatt throwing in an Epic picture...
Old     (SICKSPEED)      Join Date: May 2015       07-02-2015, 11:43 PM Reply   
UPDATE: DAY 42
Well I saw a little light today when the repair shop called me and said the module was installed and the the boat had been cut and buffed. Unfortunately the mechanic shop told me that the valve for the center ballast was busted (into several pieces) and the center ballast wouldnt work until they were able to get another from Chris. The shop was nice enough to cap off the hole so that I could use the boat (for now) with no center ballast. Fine. At least I can hit the water decently right?
I went down, dropped off $1000 toward the repair bill and arranged to take the boat for now, knowing I will have to bring it back later for more repairs.
I`m supposed to be leaving to Moses Lake in the AM (a 2 hour drive from here roughly) so I took the boat to the the Roza Dam (30 minutes away) to try it out. I got it in the water and it fired up fine. I pulled out and noticed that the speedo and any other digital gauges included in the "Mercruiser VesselView" package would register. VesselView is EXTREMELY complex, and after reading the "owners manual" I got from Epic I realized that it makes no mention of "VesselView. I played around with the settings and after 45 minutes I was able to link the boat to the correct satellite to make the speed register but most of the other stuff still didnt work. UGH!!!!
I kept trying to figure it out. You seriously need to be a SOCKET RIENTIST to work this damn thing. I figured I had nothing to lose and tried to restore the default settings. Big mistake apparently. Ever since I did that the thing has been in a continuous loop or reinitializing the software and restarting again and again.
This boat is EXTREMELY hard to get going on a decent wake with no clue to how full each ballast is, no cruise control, no speedometer and no way to know how far down each of the 3 trim tabs are. If ANYONE knows how to help me set up the basic settings on VesselView please post it here. If I havent thrown myself off a cliff by then I`ll try to get this thing going "again". I have soo much time invested in this damn thing...
Old     (SICKSPEED)      Join Date: May 2015       07-02-2015, 11:53 PM Reply   
Bunji69
You are so right. I was ready to be the biggest piece of advertising that Chris could have got for free. I currently have over 70,000 Facebook followers who still havent heard a word about this boat, positive or negative. I was originally hoping to post nice pics on there and let everyone know how great these boats are (and let everyone follow my progress as we bring a few new products to the boating masses.)
So far my buying experience has been less than stellar to say the very least...
Old     (biggator)      Join Date: Jul 2010       07-03-2015, 7:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by SICKSPEED View Post
I currently have over 70,000 Facebook followers ...
uhh.. why?
Old     (lashburn1)      Join Date: Oct 2014       07-03-2015, 11:51 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggator View Post
uhh.. why?
uhhhh this Thread?? eeeeYikes
Old     (lashburn1)      Join Date: Oct 2014       07-03-2015, 11:55 AM Reply   
Probably NOT the Best IDEA to reset Default or Factory Settings on a Computer AT SEA.
Thats on you right there..
NORMALLY the Dealer (qualified) would have walked you through the systems and your learning curve would be minimal...

The Mercruiser system need to be adjusted to Each of the Hundreds of Different Boats out there to talk to you.. reseting COULD have sent it back to Factory Defaults for MERCRUISER not EPIC....

DOn't do that again AT SEA, Very Bad Idea
Old     (SICKSPEED)      Join Date: May 2015       07-03-2015, 3:32 PM Reply   
Not a huge deal I was just at our local river. I went from not working to kinda working and back to not working. Messing with it again now. Just found out I'm also missing parts to use my bimini top. That's great because it's 110 degrees and I got about 6 kids with me...

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