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Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-24-2020, 12:45 AM Reply   
Xstar thatís super dumb. As are people who feel the need to ďdine in,Ē work out at a gym, go to a bar, or gamble at a casino right now. Honestly if we want to stop the spread each of those things should be shut down completely.

In-tent dining IS indoor dining.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       11-24-2020, 2:27 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
Trump lost in my opinion because the left did itís job of creating chaos.
According to Sydney Powell it's because Hugo Chavez saved America from his grave.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-24-2020, 5:26 AM Reply   
Agree, dining in the tent won't have a significant effect on reducing transmitting COVID
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-24-2020, 7:32 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Yes exactly, slowing the spread is just what you need to prevent the medical system from becoming overwhelmed, implement contact tracing and give the scientists time to develop therapeutics and vaccines. Sounds like a good thing?
That is what has happened. Hospitals have the resources. There were some potential shortages early. Trump freed up the money and corporations like FORD stepped up and manufactured Ventilators for instance. What most are arguing over now is zero cases vs mitigation to where people who need hospitalization have a spot.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-24-2020, 7:34 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Don Jnr just tested positive. Turns out cocaine less effective than masks.
That is Bidens son. You have them confused.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-24-2020, 7:35 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
Violent death threats from Trump supporters being sent to Georgia's republican SOS and his wife.
https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/geo...win-in-georgia


"You better not botch this recount. Your life depends on it."

"Your husband deserves to face a firing squad."

"The Raffenspergers should be put on trial for treason and face execution."
Yes, because we all know that leftist who loot, burn and believe ends justify the means will not send emails to people to make them look better.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-24-2020, 7:44 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
Wow. CNN just got woke !!!!!!!!!! Who just let this out ?


Poor privileged Collin . Growing up in a privileged white family really left him with such an oppressed life.

Another case of bull**** with a giant piece of **** as the offender. Of course Kappernick refuses to be interviewed on the the subject heís fighting so strongly for. The usual leftist response as seen here with crickets and flat out ignoring the tough questions they canít blame on Trump.


https://mobile.twitter.com/cnn/statu...507440645?s=21
Now now now..... don't you dare post something that may actually paint Kap in a negative light. We are not allowed to talk about him wearing cops as pigs socks pregame or anything like that for the reason as to why he is a poison pill.

I can not believe CNN actually allowed that guy to talk. Must be good friends of the agency and considering he wrote the book on the murder.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-24-2020, 7:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
All of you WW libtards have egg on your faces. You and your MSM ring leaders all mocked and demonized Swedenís approach. Trump did it a little bit too just to fit in with the crowd and attempt to placate the MSM. Truth is youíre all full of 95sn. The US has more deaths per capita than them now and that gap will continue to spread. You wonít hear this in the MSM. The icing on the cake is we ruined our economy and tens of millions of lives with the disgustingly unconstitutional lockdowns.

https://catalyst.independent.org/202...19-death-rate/
Of course they are. The virus will get everyone. You can delay or not delay. If the vaccine works then ok, otherwise, numbers are only going to delay. pay now or pay later. You could almost make the case that places that choose to fight the battle early are more prepared as they have been working the processes. Those who deal stick their heads in the sand and then have to deal with it without the processes in place.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-24-2020, 7:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakereviews View Post
Mark and Rod are going off the deep end
Na. I can tell you dems to **** off anytime really. You are third world wannabe scum. Don't have to go off the deep end for that. Besides, you guys are the ones out burning and looting. Who has gone of what end?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-24-2020, 7:57 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Calm yourself comrade, you won't have to hand your guns in or have an abortion until Jan 20th.
You know that people who like genocide are considered horrible horrible people right?

Actually Bidens Chief of Staff I believe has already been on record for wanting manditory gun buy back programs. dems kind of left that non electable talking point out of the agenda now didn't they.

Why is it, that foreigners only seem to approve of the democrats messaging? Huh, makes me wonder.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-24-2020, 8:15 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
You can delay or not delay. If the vaccine works then ok, otherwise, numbers are only going to delay.
Ok glad you agree if you delay the spread long enough to develop therapeutics and vaccines you will lower the overall death toll.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-24-2020, 8:15 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakereviews View Post
I thought about name calling, threatening violence and hoping for civil war but you guys beat me to it.
except you have been name calling for 4 straight years (and during the Bush years), amped it up with actual violence thus you guys out beating up Trump supporters at every pro Trump event, not letting anyone gather in support of Trump without causing trouble, can't even eat with a pro Trump anything without a bunch of you democrats yelling over a meal, shooting cops, burning cities, looting stores, etc

And you want to claim republicans are hopping for a civil war? What are you, 9 years old? I'm not touching my sister as your mother yells at you for having your hands around her neck but not technically toughing her at the time.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-24-2020, 8:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
You know that people who like genocide are considered horrible horrible people right?
Who likes genocide?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Why is it, that foreigners only seem to approve of the democrats messaging? Huh, makes me wonder.
80 million people voted for it. Suck it up princes.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-24-2020, 8:18 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Nah, counting numpty tears is way more fun.
numpty? What are you, 5?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-24-2020, 8:25 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
More proof their bull**** policies donít work. How many peoples lives are going dues the ****ter because lockdowns are forcing then to lose everything they worked for daily ? I bet itís more than 6 a day.

Your risk catching a bullet walking through a black neighborhood in Chicago is probably just as high as catching covid waking through it. Only 725 people murdered so far. Oops sorry those deaths donít count to the left. My bad.
black people killing each other has never mattered to democrats. I have been saying the same thing for nearly 20 years on this site. Take away black on black murder and we are less than even the best European countries when it comes to murder and gun violence. Then throw in that abortion was a tool by a racists named Margerat Sanger to control the black population that democrats idolize so much.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-24-2020, 8:32 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeshmoe View Post
Yes, America is still the greatest Nation on the planet, and each business has the Freedom to make a profit, there are Two businesses that are thriving and Both require mask wearing. Sams requires a mask and Home Depot requires a mask, these stores were Never Shut Down. So I guess Your "freedom" stops at the front door of Walmart, me? I have the freedom to go inside and shop. Do you want to fly somewhere in a jet? No Way are you allowed to fly without a mask! I have the freedom to fly on a jet because I will wear a mask. And nobody is locked in their basement, get outdoors, get on your boat, play some tennis, biking, running, swimming, life is great!
actually they have locked down the tennis courts here.

I am not sure the whole argument is really about the mask anyway. I am thinking this is just a symbol of the fight. The issue is the lock downs and the ability to make money or open the world up. The argument is masks are the things that help, but if they help so much why are we locked down?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-24-2020, 8:34 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiboarder View Post
How is a Medical professional changing treatment advice political?

I know that that you love to name call because you follow your idol's lead, but what makes me a RINO? That I do not support Trump? Romney and McCain oppose/opposed Trump. They both received the highest endorsement of the Republican party.

I can't wait for the votes to be tallied and the silly lawsuits to run out, the electors to cast their votes and Trump to be extracted. Then we can push guys like you back to the insignificant of margins of the party.
Margins of the party? Hate to tell you but there are 72 million Trump voters. I would say YOU are the margins of the party.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-24-2020, 8:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
Jay Kuo:

Welcome to the weird world of voter fraud conspiracy, where apparently Governor Kemp has now been paid off to throw the election to Biden, where Dominion software is to blame for everything (never mind that Democrats still lost ALL the close House races and failed to make much headway in the Senate), and Hugo Chavez is coding from beyond the grave.
The media has been good at pointing out, to any who are listening, that the Trump campaignís statements outside of the court do not mesh with their statements inside of it. Outside, Rudy Giuliani said that there was massive fraud, and he had Sidney Powell get up and spout conspiracy nonsense about Venezuelan software and communist money (the campaign has since said Powell is no longer part of the legal team.)
Inside the court, however, Giuliani and team sing a different tune. ďThis is not a fraud case,Ē he told Judge Brann, who recently dismissed the suit seeking to halt the certification of PA votes. The complaint, when amended the first time, actually removed all counts of fraud because, presumably, they could not support them. Now they want them back in, by leave of Court, which is unlikely to be granted.
Trump continues to tweet, late night, about fake ballots and observers being thrown out of counting rooms, none of which ever happened. His base doesnít hear about the muted tone of his legal team inside the court house, though. They are on Parler, YouTube threads and private Facebook groups ready for whatever red meat Sidney Powell now throws out to them as evidenceóof ďbiblical proportionsĒ apparentlyóthat will cause Biden to concede sometime today. Or tomorrow. Soon. After being fired, she continued her one woman crusade, actually using the hashtag #KrakenOnSteroids like we are all pimply teenage boys in some horrible remake of the 1980s film ďClash of the Titans.Ē
I lay this out so that you might have a glimpse into the wild and frightening world of conspiracy that has gotten a grip on millions of Trump supporters. The firing of Sidney Powell is bewildering to them, as much as the silence of Q after the election. What happened to the promised arrest of thousands of child pornographers?! They are now grasping around for the newest theory to cling to, and itís really remarkable. Meanwhile, they are furious at their own for abandoning Trump and criticizing Powell and promising to boycott the Georgia run-offs which are run by a sell-out GOP.
I canít tell if the 2020 writers are brilliant or high.
Funny. Democrats where saying the votes were being swapped with Trump won. Democrats literally laid on conspiracy after conspiracy with Bush and Trump won.

Now, if we want to go by conspiracy. Presidents don't get elected without bringing in house and senate victories with them. Something seems a bit strange.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-24-2020, 8:42 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
Al very well indeed. However that is not the case at the moment. Businesses are being forced to close by the government. Theyíre not being given the option to remain open and survive. The government is telling them only certain businesses can remain open . Thatís not how it should be at all. The business owner should have the right to choose on how to operate their business . If a business requires a mask , well thatís a choice one gets to make . Mask up and follow their protocol or if that bothers you patronize a business that doesnít . Simple as that.
Again thatís not how things are operating.


I canít go shop at my local family /.neighborhood establishments with a mask because theyíre forced to remain closed. I canít go grab a drink at a local bar and watch the game while wearing a mask , I canít go play an activity and pay the bills for a local athletic field or ice rink while wearing a mask. I canít go sit at a restaurant while wearing a mask . Over the summer we couldnít go boating because they closed public ramps and would t allow access to the lake. Gas stations on the lake werenít allowed to operate.


Thatís the issue. Itís should be up to the businesses themselves to decide how they want to handle their business in these times. People should have the choice to patronize those businesses. The left has removed that right and told you and the business owner how to live and operate.
Many places will not even accept cash now. Kind of biblical if you ask me.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-24-2020, 8:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
Your idea of tyranny is so ****ing ridiculous bro XD
Interesting. You democrats are out burning down cities based on your sense of tyanny. You know they one where everyone has equal rights but you want special rights. Everyone contributes to society but those who burn and loot want the ones who do contribute to pay for them. So, who has the ridiculous ideas?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-24-2020, 8:52 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Xstar thatís super dumb. As are people who feel the need to ďdine in,Ē work out at a gym, go to a bar, or gamble at a casino right now. Honestly if we want to stop the spread each of those things should be shut down completely.

In-tent dining IS indoor dining.
You are NOT going to stop the spread. That is the whole fing point!!! At want point do you just get on with it? Once you do, how many people are going to get their pound of salt from you once society does get on with it and everyone admits destroying everyones lives beyond what COVID already does was not worth it.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-24-2020, 8:54 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Ok glad you agree if you delay the spread long enough to develop therapeutics and vaccines you will lower the overall death toll.
If they do. But there is nothing that you have been arguing says otherwise. Your argument has always been that hiding in your hole will save you. No. America is going to save you. You are welcome again.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-24-2020, 8:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Who likes genocide?

80 million people voted for it. Suck it up princes.
democrats. Abortion is genocide. Germans did not see anything wrong with their methods at the time. People who helped bring in communist rule thought it was ok until their families were murdered.


80 million people out of 330 million. It has been well established that those 80 million are internationalists who have no issues with getting America into agreements that sell American resources to the third world. water is wet. Besides, the left seems to like to accuse someone of accepting foreign involvement in our elections but we just had 77 million (mostly from large cities with huge immigrant influence) vote with those of the world who I am sure only has Americas best interest at heart.

Last edited by DeltaHoosier; 11-24-2020 at 9:00 AM.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-24-2020, 9:06 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
America is going to save you. You are welcome again.
You know the pfizer vaccine was developed in Germany right?
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-24-2020, 9:10 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
It has been well established that those 80 million are internationalists who have no issues with getting America into agreements that sell American resources to the third world.
Ha ha no, that hasn't been "well established". I find it amazing that your default position is anyone who has a different world view than you is evil and trying to destroy America. Everybody wants a great America, they just have a different concept of what that means and how to get there.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-24-2020, 9:18 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
You know the pfizer vaccine was developed in Germany right?
and we rebuilt Germany. You are welcome.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-24-2020, 9:21 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Ha ha no, that hasn't been "well established". I find it amazing that your default position is anyone who has a different world view than you is evil and trying to destroy America. Everybody wants a great America, they just have a different concept of what that means and how to get there.
actually it has been well established. Democrats vote with the wishes of non Americans. that is a fact. You can have you false thoughts of what you want America to be but we know that is a lie. Purposeful or not, it is a lie. When money is the answer, then it is a lie. The money voted for is always flowing to the UN in the worlds version aka democrats version. Typically that view also includes the destruction of Israel as well.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-24-2020, 9:24 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Ha ha no, that hasn't been "well established". I find it amazing that your default position is anyone who has a different world view than you is evil and trying to destroy America. Everybody wants a great America, they just have a different concept of what that means and how to get there.
Also, what do you think the history books are going to say about the murder of millions of babies and the fact that a racist was the one who publicly spoke about keeping the "black weeks down"? If you think it is going to be spoken about positively, then yes, the world is evil.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-24-2020, 10:45 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Also, what do you think the history books are going to say about the murder of millions of babies
I think the world will recognize that your definition of what a "baby" is is not correct and lacks a lot of nuance
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-24-2020, 11:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
I think the world will recognize that your definition of what a "baby" is is not correct and lacks a lot of nuance
One can argue that a large section of the world believes or has believed that Jews are not people, but we know how that really is now don't we? Which reminds me, the democrats have elected quite a few of those people and are serving in congress as we speak.

As of now, you, the worlds and the democrats have ZERO nuance. As far as facts, a baby has identifiable unique for life finger prints at age 6 weeks. At 5 to 6 weeks the baby has brain activity. The fetus processes sensory stimuli at a cortical level, including painful stimulus, from about 25 weeks. A baby can live without its mother at around 20 weeks. If you want I can post pictures of abortion again and we can look week by week at the baby and we can make a decision right now on what this group believes looks like a baby. Last time it had people in quite the rage about it because it forced people to take a look at themselves. We have some people believe that it is at conception.

So we have all sorts of belief and facts that go into this baby that you, the democrats and the rest of the world seem so willing to murder. As it stands you and the rest of the world (including the person who hated blacks and did not want them to breed), are willing to allow it happen up and to the point the baby is born and will let it either die on the table or allow it to be partially born, cut open its head and then suck out it's brains up to the time it can thrive on it's own. All we need is some black and white footage and guys in round glasses with grey uniforms and people would be up in arms. As it stands, those people are you in the footage.

The truth is, it needs to happen within a few days at best of conception. The myth of rape is just that. Less than 1% is rape. There is a huge funded industry around this. Now there is a push for designer baby abortion.

as the industry stands; if anyone is going to be judged by history, it is you, the democrats and the world.
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       11-24-2020, 1:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
I think the world will recognize that your definition of what a "baby" is is not correct and lacks a lot of nuance
Ralph gets it, its only a baby if you want it, if you dont, then its just trash, no different than taking a ****. Right Ralph?
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-24-2020, 4:04 PM Reply   
In July, 31.3 million people reported that they had been unable to work at some point in the last 4 weeks because their employer closed or lost business due to the coronavirus pandemic—that is, they did not work at all. This figure was down from 40.4 million in June and 49.8 million in May.




Geeeeea sure dwarfs the 250k cooked state of covid deaths. The main difference is 90% of those Covid deaths were done contributing to America, while those millions are integral parts of keeping generations of Americans moving forward. Goes those stats don’t matter when coming up with policy.




Oh. gee More Fake news. ..........the recent media blitz claiming “
large amounts of people said they didn’t believe the virus was real while fighting for their life was fabricated. Who would’ve thunk it.

Last edited by xstarrider; 11-24-2020 at 4:08 PM.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-24-2020, 4:13 PM Reply   
Still waiting on the explanation on how loosening voter identification rules makes the process more legitimate , makes it less prone to fraud , and is better for America.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-24-2020, 4:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
Ralph gets it, its only a baby if you want it, if you dont, then its just trash, no different than taking a ****. Right Ralph?
Personally I'm against abortion, it's not something I could ever do but I don't have the conviction to force that view on to somebody else. I feel the same about recreational drug use. Cause you know, freedom and wot not.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-24-2020, 6:14 PM Reply   
OH No!!!!!!!!! Not more actual scientific research proving what has been touted by the right !


A new study published in the journal Nature has found that people who are either asymptomatic or undergoing a secondary illness of COVID-19 are simply not infectious, and don’t give the virus to others.

In other words, it appears that the only time people can infect others is when they have the virus for the first time, and only when they are symptomatic. Lock downs and the use of masks by the healthy accomplish nothing. All you need to do is quarantine the symptomatic patient, as human societies have been doing for centuries and centuries.

To once again emphasize this point, wearing masks if you are healthy and not sick protects no one. Social distancing if you are not sick protects no one. Shutting down businesses, such as reducing capacities at restaurants so they can’t make a profit, protects no one. Curfews protect no one.

When you see someone on a hiking trail, it is not necessary to run ten feet off the trail, put a mask on, and bow your head away in fear and terror of that other person. That they are on the trail guarantees they are not sick. They can’t infect you. And that you are there also means you can’t infect them.

Burn the mask. Smile. Live like a human again. And most of all, stop being afraid all the time.

This very long quote from the study’s discussion section, with the important points highlighted, makes these conclusions very clear:

The citywide nucleic acid screening of SARS-CoV-2 infection in Wuhan recruited nearly 10 million people, and found no newly confirmed cases with COVID-19. The detection rate of asymptomatic positive cases was very low, and there was no evidence of transmission from asymptomatic positive persons to traced close contacts. There were no asymptomatic positive cases in 96.4% of the residential communities.

Previous studies have shown that asymptomatic individuals infected with SARS-CoV-2 virus were infectious, and might subsequently become symptomatic. Compared with symptomatic patients, asymptomatic infected persons generally have low quantity of viral loads and a short duration of viral shedding, which decrease the transmission risk of SARS-CoV-2. In the present study, virus culture was carried out on samples from asymptomatic positive cases, and found no viable SARS-CoV-2 virus. All close contacts of the asymptomatic positive cases tested negative, indicating that the asymptomatic positive cases detected in this study were unlikely to be infectious.

There was a low repositive rate in recovered COVID-19 patients in Wuhan. Results of virus culturing and contract tracing found no evidence that repositive cases in recovered COVID-19 patients were infectious, which is consistent with evidence from other sources. A study in Korea found no confirmed COVID-19 cases by monitoring 790 contacts of 285 repositive cases. The official surveillance of recovered COVID-19 patients in China also revealed no evidence on the infectiousness of repositive cases. Considering the strong force of infection of COVID-19, it is expected that the number of confirmed cases is associated with the risk of being infected in communities. We found that asymptomatic positive rates in different districts of Wuhan were correlated with the prevalence of previously confirmed cases. This is in line with the temporal and spatial evolution (especially the long-tailed characteristic) of infectious diseases.

Existing laboratory virus culture and genetic studies showed that the virulence of SARS-CoV-2 virus may be weakening over time, and the newly infected persons were more likely to be asymptomatic and with a lower viral load than earlier infected cases. With the centralized isolation and treatment of all COVID-19 cases during the lockdown period in Wuhan, the risk of residents being infected in the community has been greatly reduced. When susceptible residents are exposed to a low dose of virus, they may tend to be asymptomatic as a result of their own immunity. Serological antibody testing in the current study found that at least 63% of asymptomatic positive cases were actually infected with SARS-CoV-2 virus. [emphasis mine]

The conclusions then go on to spout the required politically correct blather about the need for widespread use of masks and social distancing, even though its own results showed that such measures are only useful in the presence of obviously sick individuals.

Note also, as this article does, that until COVID-19 became a useful political tool that might be used to gain power, specialists in the field of infectious diseases had repeatedly been saying this same thing, that extensive research over many decades had found that, for respiratory illness such as COVID-19, only obviously sick people are infectious. Based on that deep and well documented knowledge, they had strongly advocated that widespread quarantine measures were a waste of time.

MOST IMPORTANT: This is truly wonderful news. It means we can stop with masks and lock downs and social distancing in almost all cases. It means we should go back to normal, even though the number of detections of COVID-19 is going up. That increase is from increased testing, not an increase in sick people. If anything, it is finding lots of asymptomatic individuals whose virus load is harmless anyway.

Unfortunately, I fully expect an effort by many readers to reject these results, digging desperately for any tidbit that might be used to discredit it wholly. Being skeptical is of course absolutely proper, but today too many people aren’t skeptical, they are downright hostile to the arrival of good news. They are in love with their fear of COVID-19, and will oppose and reject any data that might mean their fear is mistaken.

Last edited by xstarrider; 11-24-2020 at 6:17 PM.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-24-2020, 6:22 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
A new study published in the journal Nature has found that people who are either asymptomatic or undergoing a secondary illness of COVID-19 are simply not infectious, and donít give the virus to others.
That's awesome if true and would totally change my opinion on mask wearing, do you have a link to the research?
Old     (rlwagens)      Join Date: Feb 2008       11-24-2020, 11:10 PM Reply   
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19802-w

Basic synopsis: Wuhan in strict lockdown from January 23 to April 8. Five to eight weeks post lockdown the government performed city wide nucleic acid screening. Of 9,865,404 with no COVID-19 history there were no new cases and 300 asymptomatic cases of which 1174 close contacts also tested negative. Of 34,424 recovered COVID-19 patients 107 tested positive again.

Draw what conclusions you may from those numbers.

Edit: if this sounds a bit familiar itís the city wide testing that was mentioned in the news about 6 months ago in the stories of China reporting itís first day of zero coronavirus deaths or symptomatic cases.

Last edited by rlwagens; 11-24-2020 at 11:16 PM.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-25-2020, 1:19 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
OH No!!!!!!!!! Not more actual scientific research proving what has been touted by the right !

MOST IMPORTANT: This is truly wonderful news. It means we can stop with masks and lock downs and social distancing in almost all cases. It means we should go back to normal, even though the number of detections of COVID-19 is going up. That increase is from increased testing, not an increase in sick people. If anything, it is finding lots of asymptomatic individuals whose virus load is harmless anyway.
Curious why you didnít include this part of the article?

ďNonetheless, it is too early to be complacent, because of the existence of asymptomatic positive cases and high level of susceptibility in residents in Wuhan. Public health measures for the prevention and control of COVID-19 epidemic, including wearing masks, keeping safe social distancing in Wuhan should be sustained. Especially, vulnerable populations with weakened immunity or co-morbidities, or both, should continue to be appropriately shielded.Ē

The only way to compare us to wuhan is to go into a six week shelter in place donít leave your home for six weeks except under risk of going to jail, and then at the end of that, test everyone to isolate positive cases.

Haha Iím sure Delta wonít be able to contain himself when he learns that a fellow conservative is relying on data out of China and South Korea, which every good conservative knows is fake anyway.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       11-25-2020, 2:56 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
OH No!!!!!!!!! Not more actual scientific research proving what has been touted by the right !


A new study published in the journal Nature has found that people who are either asymptomatic or undergoing a secondary illness of COVID-19 are simply not infectious, and donít give the virus to others.
The right was never touting this.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       11-25-2020, 3:04 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
That's awesome if true and would totally change my opinion on mask wearing, do you have a link to the research?
Really? One study that people can interpret as what they want to hear and that's the definitive truth? Why would people who have symptoms wear a mask when no one else is? What is their motivation? Also if you are sick and exhibiting symptoms from a second infection would you trust that you can't get it? If people find it too difficult to wear a mask to help with the spread of the virus then we deserve what we get.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       11-25-2020, 3:56 AM Reply   
Yeah. Hospitals at capacity, millions infected with cases rising daily and deaths approaching 3K per day, but Fu&K masks or doing anything to help slow the spread because some jacka$$ did a study posted in Nature.com
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-25-2020, 4:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by psudy View Post
Yeah. Hospitals at capacity, millions infected with cases rising daily and deaths approaching 3K per day, but Fu&K masks or doing anything to help slow the spread because some jacka$$ did a study posted in Nature.com
Nature is one of the most prestigious scientific journals. It ain't infowars.

But nowhere in the article does it say F masks either. Quite the contrary.

Here's what they did with the "respositive cases" (second positives):

Quote:
Repositive cases refer to individuals who recovered from previously confirmed COVID-19 disease and had a positive testing again in the screening programme. All repositive cases, asymptomatic positive persons, and their close contacts were isolated for at least 2 weeks in designated hotels managed by primary health care professionals, and they were released from isolation only if two consecutive nucleic acid tests were negative.
We are complaining about mask wearing, when in Wuhan they put these folks in COVID jail. We don't have the grit to impose these sorts of public health measures.

Last edited by shawndoggy; 11-25-2020 at 4:20 AM.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-25-2020, 4:54 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Personally I'm against abortion, it's not something I could ever do but I don't have the conviction to force that view on to somebody else. I feel the same about recreational drug use. Cause you know, freedom and wot not.
Where does a line ever come with an ever morphing set or morals? Can we simply live by mob rules? When I say mob, I mean gangsters. They did good didn't they? They were used to take down the democrat led KKK. They made their money off the loose fringe of society and in their words didn't hurt others, well except other mobsters. Why did we decide that what they were doing was illegal and decide to take them down when we can?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-25-2020, 5:03 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Curious why you didn’t include this part of the article?

“Nonetheless, it is too early to be complacent, because of the existence of asymptomatic positive cases and high level of susceptibility in residents in Wuhan. Public health measures for the prevention and control of COVID-19 epidemic, including wearing masks, keeping safe social distancing in Wuhan should be sustained. Especially, vulnerable populations with weakened immunity or co-morbidities, or both, should continue to be appropriately shielded.”

The only way to compare us to wuhan is to go into a six week shelter in place don’t leave your home for six weeks except under risk of going to jail, and then at the end of that, test everyone to isolate positive cases.

Haha I’m sure Delta won’t be able to contain himself when he learns that a fellow conservative is relying on data out of China and South Korea, which every good conservative knows is fake anyway.
Sounds to me the statements you posted says that the potentially weak should wear their masks and be social distant. Not the other way around.

Why do I care if data came out of China? Heck you get your $150 Nikes from there. We certainly have used plenty of medical data from the democrats buddies in Germany from WW2. While I certainly do not approve of experimentation on people, everyone certainly used the data since it was already there. Just like I certainly don't approve of China's use of its people.

Last edited by DeltaHoosier; 11-25-2020 at 5:10 AM.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       11-25-2020, 5:06 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Where does a line ever come with an ever morphing set or morals? Can we simply live by mob rules? When I say mob, I mean gangsters. They did good didn't they? They were used to take down the democrat led KKK. They made their money off the loose fringe of society and in their words didn't hurt others, well except other mobsters. Why did we decide that what they were doing was illegal and decide to take them down when we can?
I told you before... Might makes right. That's the way of the world. That's the way of your lord. There is nothing that happens that isn't by the design of the omniscient creator.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-25-2020, 5:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Nature is one of the most prestigious scientific journals. It ain't infowars.

But nowhere in the article does it say F masks either. Quite the contrary.

Here's what they did with the "respositive cases" (second positives):



We are complaining about mask wearing, when in Wuhan they put these folks in COVID jail. We don't have the grit to impose these sorts of public health measures.
And this is the rub, because we all know that you democrats certainly would love that type of power to put people in "COVID" jail. That is exactly the push of all your policies for some time. That is the reason for your constant gun grabbing and anti-family legislation or imagery in public. You want people to submit at the drop of a hat if one of you "feel" that someone is off the plantation.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-25-2020, 5:10 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
I told you before... Might makes right. That's the way of the world. That's the way of your lord. There is nothing that happens that isn't by the design of the omniscient creator.
It's call free will and THAT is the way of our Lord.......
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-25-2020, 5:23 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Nature is one of the most prestigious scientific journals. It ain't infowars.

But nowhere in the article does it say F masks either. Quite the contrary.

Here's what they did with the "respositive cases" (second positives):



We are complaining about mask wearing, when in Wuhan they put these folks in COVID jail. We don't have the grit to impose these sorts of public health measures.
Nature journal is top notch. What gives me the most caution is this data is from the low viral load enviroment, the people who are asymptomatic aren't getting sick, they have such a low viral load that they are fully functional. That is quite a different story to an enviroment with high levels of transmission and lots of sick people.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       11-25-2020, 5:24 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
It's call free will and THAT is the way of our Lord.......
Free will is a human construct and exists only from our perspective. There is nothing that happens that isn't by design.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-25-2020, 5:25 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Where does a line ever come with an ever morphing set or morals? Can we simply live by mob rules? When I say mob, I mean gangsters. They did good didn't they? They were used to take down the democrat led KKK. They made their money off the loose fringe of society and in their words didn't hurt others, well except other mobsters. Why did we decide that what they were doing was illegal and decide to take them down when we can?
Have no idea what you are talking about
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-25-2020, 5:51 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
And this is the rub, because we all know that you democrats certainly would love that type of power to put people in "COVID" jail. That is exactly the push of all your policies for some time. That is the reason for your constant gun grabbing and anti-family legislation or imagery in public. You want people to submit at the drop of a hat if one of you "feel" that someone is off the plantation.

So you agree with me that xstarís conclusions drawn from the article are misplaced.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-25-2020, 5:52 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Sounds to me the statements you posted says that the potentially weak should wear their masks and be social distant. Not the other way around.

Why do I care if data came out of China? Heck you get your $150 Nikes from there. We certainly have used plenty of medical data from the democrats buddies in Germany from WW2. While I certainly do not approve of experimentation on people, everyone certainly used the data since it was already there. Just like I certainly don't approve of China's use of its people.

Thatís only if you are still dumb enough to think that masks shield the wearer.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-25-2020, 6:23 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Nature journal is top notch. What gives me the most caution is this data is from the low viral load enviroment, the people who are asymptomatic aren't getting sick, they have such a low viral load that they are fully functional. That is quite a different story to an enviroment with high levels of transmission and lots of sick people.
Then take in the other study that was posted regarding Marines that tested masks.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-25-2020, 6:27 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Have no idea what you are talking about
Are all laws from the bible or are they from how society chooses to live among themselves? At some point, a group of people have to decide that we are passing laws and are going to place their morals on society. One of those is murder. There are others about human experimentation. You clearly have opinions regarding those. Society clearly has opinions on those. So this whole notion that you don't want to impose your will on others is nonsense. You certainly want to do that via US elections.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-25-2020, 6:34 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Thatís only if you are still dumb enough to think that masks shield the wearer.
Technically, the masks that people wear really don't shield anyone. You really think your 1mm porous mask that does not even keep your glasses from fogging as you breath is really keeping a virus load from getting in the air? Yes, it may keep it from spraying straight, but it is getting out. If anything it mingles a high virus load on the mask as it gets wetter and wetter, then you touch it at some point and touch something then others come along and touch it. If masks were working then we would not be having this uptick in cases now would we because everyone is wearing their masks.

Well everyone except the democrats out looting and burning cities, but according to the "news" those events are harmless and they are mostly peaceful.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-25-2020, 6:36 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
So you agree with me that xstarís conclusions drawn from the article are misplaced.
No, I am agreeing that peoples distrust in democrats is absolutely 100% well placed. People don't try as hard as you guys do to remove peoples freedoms (especially in the light of data) without an end game. That end game is you democrats desire for authoritarianism.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-25-2020, 6:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
No, I am agreeing that peoples distrust in democrats is absolutely 100% well placed. People don't try as hard as you guys do to remove peoples freedoms (especially in the light of data) without an end game. That end game is you democrats desire for authoritarianism.

My bad. For a second there I thought you were reading the article and thinking critically.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-25-2020, 6:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Technically, the masks that people wear really don't shield anyone. You really think your 1mm porous mask that does not even keep your glasses from fogging as you breath is really keeping a virus load from getting in the air? Yes, it may keep it from spraying straight, but it is getting out. If anything it mingles a high virus load on the mask as it gets wetter and wetter, then you touch it at some point and touch something then others come along and touch it. If masks were working then we would not be having this uptick in cases now would we because everyone is wearing their masks.

Well everyone except the democrats out looting and burning cities, but according to the "news" those events are harmless and they are mostly peaceful.

Thatís a lot of words to justify poor reading comprehension. Itís ok, itís a reasonable mistake. No judgments.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-25-2020, 6:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Thatís only if you are still dumb enough to think that masks shield the wearer.
And by the way. I know this whole science thing is beyond you because, well, you as a democrat do believe that X and Y chromosomes do not exist and people can be fluid in their sex. I will try another way. Why do you think their is another qualifier of "social distancing" and dwell time around others even with a mask? If masks protected, there would be no qualifier.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-25-2020, 6:50 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
That’s a lot of words to justify poor reading comprehension. It’s ok, it’s a reasonable mistake. No judgments.
Just like I don't judge you for needed another pair of Air Jordans or simply needing to get your rage on down at the footlocker. I do ask that you leave your fire at home as it brings of bad memories of when you used to burn crosses on peoples lawns.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-25-2020, 6:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
My bad. For a second there I thought you were reading the article and thinking critically.
Nope just reacting to your ignorant comments.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-25-2020, 7:52 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
My bad. For a second there I thought you were reading the article and thinking critically.
Well while reading the article and I would need to read it several more times to really digest all the nuances.

- I highly doubt they tested 10 million people within their potential infected time frame. Also I find it somewhat doubtful that a lab has the ability to go from little testing to ramp to scale to cover 10 million tests without issues.

- It looks like detection rates for inactive asymptomatic cases is low so they seemed to antibody test people after the fact and found that through interview that they did not have symptoms or did not infect anyone (are we assuming that if they did have it and infect someone there would have been sever penalties? How do we know that they were simply missed in the active case contact tracing? I have to assume the former?)

- sounds like they had a higher detection rate of active asymptomatic cases in areas that had higher actual COVID cases. Maybe due to the light being shined over there?


This seems to be the take away from the article and is great news, however what really is asymptomatic? Seems somewhat suggestive? The full list of symptoms reads like someone getting a case of old age.


Quote:
In the present study, virus culture was carried out on samples from asymptomatic positive cases, and found no viable SARS-CoV-2 virus. All close contacts of the asymptomatic positive cases tested negative, indicating that the asymptomatic positive cases detected in this study were unlikely to be infectious.
From the article just prior to the mask comment you posted:

Quote:
Existing laboratory virus culture and genetic studies9,10 showed that the virulence of SARS-CoV-2 virus may be weakening over time, and the newly infected persons were more likely to be asymptomatic and with a lower viral load than earlier infected cases. With the centralized isolation and treatment of all COVID-19 cases during the lockdown period in Wuhan, the risk of residents being infected in the community has been greatly reduced. When susceptible residents are exposed to a low dose of virus, they may tend to be asymptomatic as a result of their own immunity. Serological antibody testing in the current study found that at least 63% of asymptomatic positive cases were actually infected with SARS-CoV-2 virus.
Good to hear. Pointing to another study that has not been reviewed? I will take it as a throw away line but it is a conclusion of the author of sorts. Just like this line is a non factual throw away conclusion:

Quote:
Nonetheless, it is too early to be complacent, because of the existence of asymptomatic positive cases and high level of susceptibility in residents in Wuhan. Public health measures for the prevention and control of COVID-19 epidemic, including wearing masks, keeping safe social distancing in Wuhan should be sustained. Especially, vulnerable populations with weakened immunity or co-morbidities, or both, should continue to be appropriately shielded.

Could be true but it really has nothing to do with a technical paper.

what gives me a little hope for this paper is the
Quote:
Definition and management of identified confirmed cases and close contacts
section:

Quote:
In this study, all confirmed COVID-19 cases were diagnosed by designated medical institutions according to National Guidelines for the Prevention and Control of COVID-19 (Supplementary Note 2). Asymptomatic positive cases referred to individuals who had a positive result during screening, and they had neither a history of COVID-19 diagnosis, nor any clinical symptoms at the time of the nucleic acid testing. Close contacts were individuals who closely contacted with an asymptomatic positive person since 2 days before the nucleic acid sampling16. Repositive cases refer to individuals who recovered from previously confirmed COVID-19 disease and had a positive testing again in the screening programme. All repositive cases, asymptomatic positive persons, and their close contacts were isolated for at least 2 weeks in designated hotels managed by primary health care professionals, and they were released from isolation only if two consecutive nucleic acid tests were negative.
What does close contact mean? maybe the paper defines it but I have not found it. Lots of info there. I have to assume it is people living in the house WITHOUT MASKS or social distancing.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       11-25-2020, 8:04 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
So you agree with me that xstarís conclusions drawn from the article are misplaced.
So in conclusion, I believe that non asymptomatic people offer little to no impact on the community with or without a mask. With that said, I do not think the study characterized the health of the "close contacts". Even if it did, that should be the responsibility of the potentially impacted or the people who believe they have too much to live for to decide.

I also believe it is ill defined what symptomatic vs asymptomatic is and where that threshold is for the viral load. Can you be asymptomatic in the first days of a full on case? Is that the same as being asymptomatic as defined by this study? It did not sound like the study got into that question. It sounds like asymptomatic as defined in this study where those who tested positive with no symptoms reported thus they had low viral load which is completely different than a person with a full viral load who is presymptomatic (if that is possible?)
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-25-2020, 8:35 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
And by the way. I know this whole science thing is beyond you because, well, you as a democrat do believe that X and Y chromosomes do not exist and people can be fluid in their sex. I will try another way. Why do you think their is another qualifier of "social distancing" and dwell time around others even with a mask? If masks protected, there would be no qualifier.

Thatís like saying seatbelts are proven to be useless because of airbags and speed limits.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       11-25-2020, 9:10 AM Reply   
I guess that Russia "Hoax" is still on his pea brained mind. More cover-up. Trump Pardons Mike Flynn. Barr tried cheating but failed. Thought this guy was innocent? Wonderful corruption for the party of law and order.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-25-2020, 11:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Are all laws from the bible or are they from how society chooses to live among themselves?
If you believe in freedom of religion then it has to be the second

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
At some point, a group of people have to decide that we are passing laws and are going to place their morals on society. One of those is murder. There are others about human experimentation. You clearly have opinions regarding those. Society clearly has opinions on those. So this whole notion that you don't want to impose your will on others is nonsense.
Of course there has to be laws, it is just my preference that there are a little as possible while still respecting peoples rights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
You certainly want to do that via US elections.
To be 100% clear I did not vote in the US election.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       11-25-2020, 6:17 PM Reply   
Been too busy working to even read much from the last couple days, but I came across this. Looks like the CDC is now saying the actual cases may have been 8+ times higher than we think. If thatís the case, that means itís 8 times less deadly (way less deadly than driving a car) and the democrats still want to kill our economy. WTH???

https://www.foxnews.com/health/coron...rted-cdc-warns
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-25-2020, 6:18 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by psudy View Post
Yeah. Hospitals at capacity, millions infected with cases rising daily and deaths approaching 3K per day, but Fu&K masks or doing anything to help slow the spread because some jacka$$ did a study posted in Nature.com
Well clearly you donít follow science , just get your information regurgitated from some leftist media source. A 5 min search of Nature Journal wouldíve let you know Nature is one of the if not the most highly regarded science publication in the world. For a guy so worried about about the science behind the covid policies you really showed your true colors in your response. Keep relying on politicians and media to feed you bull**** and hang on their every word. 2 min of a fact check would have saved you the humiliation.

Thanks for playing
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       11-25-2020, 6:21 PM Reply   
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Attached Images
 
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-25-2020, 6:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Nature is one of the most prestigious scientific journals. It ain't infowars.

But nowhere in the article does it say F masks either. Quite the contrary.

Here's what they did with the "respositive cases" (second positives):



We are complaining about mask wearing, when in Wuhan they put these folks in COVID jail. We don't have the grit to impose these sorts of public health measures.


The left is making a solid move towards getting there. Thatís for sure.

Nobody is making claims based on a single mask wearing attribute , The claims are based on the totality of circumstances being employed and forced upon the good people of this country that make zero sense and in complete violation of ones fundamental constitutional rights. Tyranny at its finest.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-25-2020, 6:45 PM Reply   
Here is some more science for you. Reviewing past data .



Approximately 220,000 COVID-19 deaths listed so far, almost 94% were likely not caused exclusively by COVID-19, but by other chronic illnesses. While many of these other maladies, such as a variety of respiratory illnesses, probably worked closely in conjunction with the coronavirus to kill the patient, other illnesses were clearly the real cause of death. For example, the CDC says the 51,000 of today’s 218,000 COVID-19 deaths were caused by heart attacks or heart failure, not COVID-19.

If we subtract these coronary deaths, we are left with about 167,000 COVID-19 deaths. The CDC notes that of these, 88,000 were probably caused not by the coronavirus but by the flu and pneumonia. Hospitals listed them as COVID-19 deaths because the CARES act passed by Congress in the spring gives those hospitals a 20% bonus if they claim the death was COVID-19. This fact might also explain the almost complete lack of flu deaths this year, as listed by hospitals.

Based on this data, it appears that the coronavirus probably caused about 79,000 deaths, on top of the 88,000 flu and pneumonia deaths this year. These Wuhan virus deaths are probably excess deaths this year, but with an average age of 78 the deaths are still occurring almost exclusively among the aged sick, rather than the general population. For everyone else, COVID-19 remains relatively harmless, like the flu.

Interestingly, the CDC recently reported that in 2020 the total number of excess deaths is presently estimated at 300,000. Most significantly, the CDC also stated that

[As of October 3rd], the report notes only 198,081 of those deaths are directly attributed to COVID-19. So over one-third of excess deaths so far this year have not been directly associated with COVID-19.

These numbers reasonably match with the numbers above. They also suggest strongly that the lock downs and house arrests and mask mandates might very well be causing many other unnecessary excess deaths, such as from suicides. The lock downs have also caused many unneeded deaths because patients did not get treatment for other illnesses when they should, either because hospitals were not allowed to provide them service (because of government edict) or because the patients were afraid to go to the hospital.

All told, the data continues to suggest that the panic over COVID-19 did more harm than good, especially because the early data, in March, was consistent with what we know now. Even then the data said the virus would be dangerous only to the elderly sick, but harmless to the young and healthy, just like the flu. Had our political and academic class been interested in that data, instead of the failed models they love to bow to, they would have allowed society to largely go on with life as normal, while instituting measures specifically aimed at protecting the elderly sick.

Instead, they did the exact opposite, and the evidence now tells us that those failed policies of panic killed many more people, for absolutely no reason.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-25-2020, 7:00 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
So you agree with me that xstar’s conclusions drawn from the article are misplaced.
What conclusions are those ?

The only conclusion I’ve been very outspoken about is that positivity rates don’t matter, the focus on them by the left to push an agenda is downright scary . I’ve consistently challenged the huge increase in positivity rates with the argument that mandated testing and ease of accessibility now has greatly increased the reason for the higher positivity rates. More and more people are required by their employers , educational institutions , and sports club to be tested on regular basis . The positivity rates here are effected greatly because originally we only tested people with symptoms. Now we test everyone who may have been possibly exposed. Even someone exposed to a person with the virus could be asymptomatic, but they’re being tested now and popping positive , and their asymptomatic positivity has no effect on public health. The huge focus should be on the positivity / death rate number as well as the positivity / hospitalization number.

The continued argument of hospitals being overrun is tired and the actual numbers of people causing them to be exploited in terms of “overrun “ is quite minuscule . For example the amount of beds available in each hospital is not in the 1000’s most hospitals are in the 100’s. So a non “overrun” hospital sewing bed usage of less than 50% we will say for the sake of argument. Even in a Non pandemic time those beds occupied is probably above that 50% threshold. Now the left is claiming hospitals are completely overrun inciting a panic , well that argument may be , but they’re overrun at the moment by 70-100 people on the max to get them to that “ overrun “ status. It’s far from a crazy death virus filling our hospitals. Here are the day numbers contributing to overrun hospitals in Illinois. The data shows a completely different story with plenty of excess availability. Yet we are being told we are completely overrun and the virus is taking over the state due to positivity rates , so we’re reverted lock downs. Explain the availability of all these resources , while claiming we are overrun ? The numbers below are even after the IDPH conveniently made a sizeable protiom of beds disappear off their charts in the middle of the night to show a “scarier “ picture. Love to hear explanations how we are in utter crisis mode due to what’s shown below.

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Asymptomatic positive results are off the charts these days. It’s Always been discussed by those of the right that asymptomatic people are non transmitting, and really mean nothing to the actual infectious data transmittal . I was told this way back in May by my covid expert Dr when I tested positive. There is a huge difference between an active covid patient experiencing symptoms and asymptomatic people, however that’s never been discussed. The proof has finally made it to a the highest scientific publication , but I’ll bet you here zero about in the MSM .

Last edited by xstarrider; 11-25-2020 at 7:08 PM.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-26-2020, 4:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
What conclusions are those ?

The only conclusion Iíve been very outspoken about is that positivity rates donít matter, the focus on them by the left to push an agenda is downright scary . Iíve consistently challenged the huge increase in positivity rates with the argument that mandated testing and ease of accessibility now has greatly increased the reason for the higher positivity rates.
So you share a study from Nature where authorities literally tested EVERYONE (ok ok, only 96% of people) before lifting a lockdown, and you suggest that the study supports your conclusion that we are overtesting and positivity rates don't matter?

We COULD totally get control of this AND reopen everything like you suggest, if we could greatly increase testing. If everyone was tested on a weekly basis, we'd be able to isolate positive cases and keep those folks from spreading. We could also test and verify the chinese experience about asymptomatic spread (or the lack thereof). And everyone who tests negative gets a week pass to shop and go to the gym and eat in restaurants. Rinse and repeat.

Or we could just complain that when you test you get positives and if we didn't test we wouldn't know.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-26-2020, 6:05 AM Reply   
Unsurprisingly I 100% agree with Shawndoggy. Not sure if that helps or hurts his case lol. You would think 270k in 9 months would give people some concern but no, the echo chambers we inhabit skew our perception of evidence to reinforce whatever narative we get from our social circles.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-26-2020, 6:07 AM Reply   
Oh, and check this out, my lived experience of covid is different to yours, no doubt that skews my opinion too.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/c...ience-ranking/
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-26-2020, 6:32 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
So you share a study from Nature where authorities literally tested EVERYONE (ok ok, only 96% of people) before lifting a lockdown, and you suggest that the study supports your conclusion that we are overtesting and positivity rates don't matter?

Don’t pull a 95SN and put words down I’ve never said. Tell me where I’ve said we are over testing. I said the extra testing accounts for the higher positives as time continues due to he fact more asymptomatic people are popping positive. Can you point to any post I’ve ever made in which I’ve said we need to stop or slow testing. I just said the focus on the straight positivity rate by leftist tyrants using it to lock down cities is completely flawed and has been since the beginning.

Personally the more we test everyone , the more we can instantly isolate those with symptoms, which I turn would ideally keep them from spreading. More testing would actually decrease the spread, but again would most likely , based on past data, contribute to an increase in positive case numbers. The proper way to actually log that for discussion and safety would be to separate the asymptomatic/ non threatening cases from the infectious ones. It’s a very simple concept that is completely ignored by the left .

Last edited by xstarrider; 11-26-2020 at 6:41 AM.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       11-26-2020, 5:38 PM Reply   
With the CDC claiming the cases could be 8+ times greater than stated and thus, 8+ times less deadly, this has truly become the farce it was rumored to be in the first place. Itís far less deadly than the regular flu. Democrats wonít let it go to waste though until the pedo wrongfully and illegitimately assumes office.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       11-27-2020, 7:27 AM Reply   
Also contributing to the Kung Flu farce is the fact that mortality rates in the US have not changed much year over year, but have stayed pretty consistent.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-27-2020, 8:43 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
Also contributing to the Kung Flu farce is the fact that mortality rates in the US have not changed much year over year, but have stayed pretty consistent.
What you talking about Willis, CDC just published that excess deaths is expected to be 300K up this year due to COVID

https://news3lv.com/news/nation-worl...re-deaths-than
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-27-2020, 5:39 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
What you talking about Willis, CDC just published that excess deaths is expected to be 300K up this year due to COVID

https://news3lv.com/news/nation-worl...re-deaths-than
Geee I am sure all the exponentially increased black on black death tolls littered across the nation this year isn’t effecting those numbers at all. The increased suicide rates of all those effected negatively by lockdowns probably isn’t playing factor either . People refusing to go for medical help because they’ve been falsely told they’ll die getting anywhere near covid . What about all medical facilities closed for periods of time due to covid. Peoples will to live is also affected by what’s transpiring around them. Dying has scientifically linked to ones mental state, think anyone is in a dark place in their mind more this year with the MSM pumping out its poison? Couple all those increases with the actual covid deaths , and again it’s still not the killer it’s been portrayed as by left.

Last edited by xstarrider; 11-27-2020 at 5:41 PM.
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