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Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-09-2020, 5:33 PM Reply   
On some positive news NZ is 101 days deep with zero community transmission. There is still some nervousness that the border will leak and we will have to lock down again. Hopefully if it happens it will be a region rather than the whole country
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-10-2020, 3:29 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
Trump believes his only chance is to cheat to win. And cheat is what they will do.
Do you have a problem with cheaters? Or are you good with that?
https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/8/21...unts-instagram
Yeah, uh huh.... and he also won’t leave after he’s lost too, right? I see your TDS is still alive and well.
Old     (onlyinboards)      Join Date: Oct 2014       08-10-2020, 5:56 AM Reply   
Found this the other day and thought it was a good read.

Today’s announcement that Trump was providing economic relief through executive action after Congress failed to pass a coronavirus bill was an attempt to drive a narrative that will give Trump an issue for the upcoming election.

The story is this: On May 15, the House of Representatives, controlled by Democrats, passed a $3 trillion coronavirus relief bill, known as the HEROES Act, short for Health and Economic Recovery Omnibus Emergency Solutions Act. It provided relief for workers, protected renters, shored up cratering state budgets, funded emergency changes to the 2020 election, and supported hospitals and schools.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) refused to take it up. In an interview on the Fox News Channel, he said "We will let you know when we think the time is right to begin to move again.” That time was apparently not until the end of July, just as federal funding for a supplement to unemployment benefits ran out and a moratorium on evictions ended.

Then, with unemployed Americans facing a wall and the economy facing a cliff, Senate Republicans began to negotiate their own coronavirus relief package, but it became clear quickly that they could not agree. Senators up for reelection wanted popular measures that would help their constituents; others opposed further federal spending. Unable to come up with a plan, McConnell bowed out of further negotiations.

That left House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY) negotiating with Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and White House chief of staff Mark Meadows. The administration officials proposed $1 trillion in aid, and cutting out state support and election funding, among other things. When the Democrats yesterday offered to compromise on a $2 trillion bill, the White House rejected it out of hand.

This opened the way for Trump to step in.

This evening, from his golf club at Bedminster, New Jersey, Trump signed three memorandums and one executive order that bypass Congress to provide the relief the White House wanted. Trump said these measures would provide economic relief for struggling Americans by providing temporary benefits, deferring taxes, and by ending evictions.

It is not clear the measures will do any such thing.

The Constitution establishes that only the House of Representatives can initiate a revenue bill, so Trump cannot come up with new money. Tonight’s memo on relief relies on Trump’s emergency powers. It calls for the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) to use about $70 billion from the Department of Homeland Security’s Disaster Relief Fund (DRF) to provide an additional $300 of unemployment benefits weekly. But since the law requires states to kick in 25% matching funds for expenditures from the DRF, the memo also calls on states to use their allocation of the $80 billion still unspent from the earlier coronavirus CARES Act to put an additional $100 weekly into relief, for a total of a $400 weekly supplement to state unemployment benefits. Trump has also told states to identify funds they can spend if the DRF falls to $25 billion.

States are struggling from the collapse of tax revenues due to the pandemic. They are facing major layoffs and program cuts. Republicans oppose shoring them up apparently with the hope of forcing the states into a restructuring that will cut social benefits. The requirement in this memo will stress them more.

It is also unclear how long the DRF’s money will hold out, since more than 30 million Americans are currently collecting unemployment benefits.

Another of Trump's memos relies on the law that gives the Treasury Secretary leeway to delay tax filing and collection in case of disasters. Trump directs the Treasury Secretary to defer payroll taxes for workers making less than about $100,000 a year, starting on September 1. Members of both parties disliked this idea, but it has long been one of Trump’s favorite provisions. He insists it will inject money into the economy, although there is argument over that.

The taxes would still be due, just not until next year. But Trump appears to want to end them altogether. Trump’s lawyer Jenna Ellis tweeted “This is actually the biggest news of the day: President Trump said that if he is re-elected, he will look into terminating the payroll tax permanently!”

It is the payroll tax that funds Social Security and partly funds Medicare.

Another memo extends the deferral of student loan payments set up under the CARES Act until December 31. Under the earlier act, it expired in September.

Like the payroll tax memo, the “Executive Order on Fighting the Spread of COVID-19 by Providing Assistance to Renters and Homeowners” starts by noting that the coronavirus began in China and from there reiterates some of Trump’s favorite claims about the success of his administration. Then the memo notes how hard-hit people of color have been by Covid-19, and points out that POC are at most danger of eviction. But the memo does not, in fact, provide anything to stop that process. It simply asks various administration officials to consider whether anything can be done to help.

So what’s the story behind these four executive actions, announced late Saturday, just in time to make it onto all the Sunday talk shows?

McConnell may have sat out the negotiations because he knew he could never get Republican senators to agree on a bill. But by pulling Republicans out of negotiations, he set up a narrative that pitted Democrats against the Trump White House. The White House refused to negotiate, cut off talks, and now Trump has declared that he has the power to fix the problem himself.

But it is not at all clear that he does have the power to reallocate funds as he has. Under the Constitution, Congress controls spending, and the president is supposed to execute the laws Congress writes. Congress allocated the money that he now wants to use for pandemic relief for other purposes.

So there will almost certainly be pushback on Trump’s actions on legal grounds. But, with Senate Republicans out of negotiations, Republicans can frame legal pushback as Democrats objecting to the relief Americans so desperately need, even though the Democrats have been pushing for a relief bill for almost three months, and it is the Republicans who have been unable to produce one.

Such a construction seems to be what Trump and Republican leaders have in mind. Far from being neutral documents to solve a crisis, the documents themselves attack the Democrats for playing “political games.” In his remarks on his memos and order, Trump said: “Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer have chosen to hold this vital assistance hostage on behalf of very extreme partisan demands and the radical left Democrats and we just can't do that…. This is a bill supported by Biden, and Biden is totally controlled now by the Bernie Sanders left wing of the party.”

McConnell said: “Struggling Americans need action now…. Since Democrats have sabotaged backroom talks with absurd demands that would not help working people, I support President Trump exploring his options to get unemployment benefits and other relief to the people who need them the most.” Senator Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), the Senate president pro tempore, meaning he presides over the Senate in the absence of the vice president, tweeted that Trump "puts the American ppl first compared to nonstop political games by Democrats."
Former Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker tweeted “Congress can’t get it done, so [Trump] does. This is the sort of thing that will get [Trump] reelected in 2020. Voters are tired of the crap in Washington. They want leaders who get things done.”

Trump has been unable to manufacture any good news lately. As of today, more than 5 million Americans have been infected with coronavirus and more than 160,000 have died. While most of the rest of the world has gotten the virus under control and is reopening, the U.S economy is faltering. More than 30 million Americans are out of work, and millions are facing eviction.

But tonight, Trump has framed himself as a hero, saving Americans when Congress would not. And Republicans can frame the inevitable legal pushback on his relief bill as Democratic hostility to ordinary people.

When faced with the idea his executive orders would face challenge, Trump said: “If we get sued, it’s somebody who doesn't want people to get money…. And that's not going to be a popular thing.”
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-10-2020, 6:01 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
Yeah, uh huh.... and he also won’t leave after he’s lost too, right? I see your TDS is still alive and well.
Yeah, uh huh. Wasnt it last week when you said he wouldnt do this to the payroll tax?
He would never attack your retirement or Medicare. This ought to be a very popular event for anyone near retirement Dem or Repub.

Quote:
Looking at and doing are two different things, Retardonis Maximus.

Ever think he might be attempting to move the dial a tad with rhetoric?
Now that your wrong again, maybe you should listen to what he does.
Why would anyone expect him to leave peacefully? He telegraphs every move. He already said he isnt ready to believe election results. His new political appointee in the PO is doing his bidding to slow the mail. Changing leadership at USPS months before an election where mail in voting will be the norm, hmmm. His campaign lawyers have added Kanye to the election to split votes. When was the last time you heard about a sitting presidents attys filing election paperwork for a different candidate? A mentally challenged black entertainer. Why do you think they are doing that? Your excuses ought to be good reading.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-10-2020, 6:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
Yeah, uh huh. Wasnt it last week when you said he wouldnt do this to the payroll tax?
He would never attack your retirement or Medicare. This ought to be a very popular event for anyone near retirement Dem or Repub.


Now that your wrong again, maybe you should listen to what he does.
Why would anyone expect him to leave peacefully? He telegraphs every move. He already said he isnt ready to believe election results. His new political appointee in the PO is doing his bidding to slow the mail. Changing leadership at USPS months before an election where mail in voting will be the norm, hmmm. His campaign lawyers have added Kanye to the election to split votes. When was the last time you heard about a sitting presidents attys filing election paperwork for a different candidate? A mentally challenged black entertainer. Why do you think they are doing that? Your excuses ought to be good reading.
Maybe you should start by explaining why Chuck and Nancy are forcing Trump's hand and playing politics with the temporary aid package by attaching a bunch of libtard pork to every bill. Otherwise, you're still just another one of them. Utterly disposable human compost. Don't care about the Kanye side show.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-10-2020, 7:37 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
Maybe you should start by explaining why Chuck and Nancy are forcing Trump's hand and playing politics with the temporary aid package by attaching a bunch of libtard pork to every bill. Otherwise, you're still just another one of them. Utterly disposable human compost. Don't care about the Kanye side show.
I missed you saying much in response, just giving up and shouting at the kids to get off your lawn? Personal insults, Productive. Why would trumps attys file campaign paperwork for Kanye West? Why would trump Take over USPS now?

Dems have had a deal on the table for weeks. McConnell gave up, forced Dems to work with Mnuchin and Trumps chief of staff, Reince Priebus, er um no that was the 1st one. John Kelly, oh, hes gone too. I mean Chief of staff Mick Mulvaney, oh SNAP hes gone too. Dems had to work with Mnuchin and "current" chief of staff, lets just call him "whats his name".
Those guys couldnt get it done either. But i have confidence with some Dem leadership they will get something hammered out. They always do.
Hey only 160,000 dead Americans due to the Trump Flu. Cant wait for the campaign ads showing us how well he has done and reminding us, "I take no responsibility". Seen the trump rally going on in Sturgis? Beautiful sight.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-10-2020, 7:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
I missed you saying much in response, just giving up and shouting at the kids to get off your lawn? Personal insults, Productive. Why would trumps attys file campaign paperwork for Kanye West? Why would trump Take over USPS now?

Dems have had a deal on the table for weeks. McConnell gave up, forced Dems to work with Mnuchin and Trumps chief of staff, Reince Priebus, er um no that was the 1st one. John Kelly, oh, hes gone too. I mean Chief of staff Mick Mulvaney, oh SNAP hes gone too. Dems had to work with Mnuchin and "current" chief of staff, lets just call him "whats his name".
Those guys couldnt get it done either. But i have confidence with some Dem leadership they will get something hammered out. They always do.
Hey only 160,000 dead Americans due to the Trump Flu. Cant wait for the campaign ads showing us how well he has done and reminding us, "I take no responsibility". Seen the trump rally going on in Sturgis? Beautiful sight.
More lame cheap shots from the peanut gallery. You need to first explain why Chuck and Nancy can't figure out any new bill that DOESN'T contain any libtard-specific agenda items. I told you I don't care about the Kanye side show. If that paperwork ultimately helps dilute some swamp dweller dem votes, great. I also hope Trump does what he needs to with the PO as long as it's legal. I love that he's a fighter, not afraid of libtards.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-10-2020, 7:50 AM Reply   
It's pretty bad that your neck sniffer has to use affirmative action to calm the natives down.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/more-than...182615502.html
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-10-2020, 8:27 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
I missed you saying much in response, just giving up and shouting at the kids to get off your lawn? Personal insults, Productive. Why would trumps attys file campaign paperwork for Kanye West? Why would trump Take over USPS now?

Dems have had a deal on the table for weeks. McConnell gave up, forced Dems to work with Mnuchin and Trumps chief of staff, Reince Priebus, er um no that was the 1st one. John Kelly, oh, hes gone too. I mean Chief of staff Mick Mulvaney, oh SNAP hes gone too. Dems had to work with Mnuchin and "current" chief of staff, lets just call him "whats his name".
Those guys couldnt get it done either. But i have confidence with some Dem leadership they will get something hammered out. They always do.
Hey only 160,000 dead Americans due to the Trump Flu. Cant wait for the campaign ads showing us how well he has done and reminding us, "I take no responsibility". Seen the trump rally going on in Sturgis? Beautiful sight.
Sturgis is a protest. based on all your pre posts, protests are just fine.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-10-2020, 8:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
More lame cheap shots from the peanut gallery. You need to first explain why Chuck and Nancy can't figure out any new bill that DOESN'T contain any libtard-specific agenda items. I told you I don't care about the Kanye side show. If that paperwork ultimately helps dilute some swamp dweller dem votes, great. I also hope Trump does what he needs to with the PO as long as it's legal. I love that he's a fighter, not afraid of libtards.
Running an alternative candidate sounds more like voter fraud than "cheap shots" They actually did it. Also the grifters usps appointee admitted to slowing the mail, again, accurate not cheap shot.
you will need to be more specific, is money for covid, libtard specific?

Trump a fighter, lol. Fighters have thick skin. Grifter is just a biotch.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/antho...b6e96a22b47bff

Last edited by 95sn; 08-10-2020 at 9:02 AM.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-10-2020, 8:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
Sturgis is a protest. based on all your pre posts, protests are just fine.
You're full of it doug. Sturgis is just a party. You know it, I know it.
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-10-2020, 9:19 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
You're full of it doug. Sturgis is just a party. You know it, I know it.
500,000 people are protesting there 1st amendment rights. Thats exactly what is happening. They have that right, correct? Same as the protestors in other cities, without the violence and rioting.

If they burned down the city, would that then be better, as it marries whats happening in the left wing "protests" with the camp fires, in downtown portland, and the food truck, beer blitz every night, that has been filmed for 70+ days? Not the same? I agree, Sturgis is not 3 months long, and the violence is minor compared to Poland, or seattle or nyc or LA or Chicago.

So yes, its totally different from the lefts riots, as its not a riot, just a protest. And dont be fooled, its a real protest, those people are protesting the removal of their 1st amendment rights. like it or not.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-10-2020, 9:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
I also hope Trump does what he needs to with the PO as long as it's legal. I love that he's a fighter, not afraid of libtards.
Many Republicans are saying, its illegal.
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...snt-have-kings

"On the topic that had you mad this weekend: No president — whether named Obama or Trump or Biden or AOC — has unilateral power to rewrite immigration law or to cut taxes or to raise taxes. This is because America doesn't have kings," Sasse wrote.
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-10-2020, 9:30 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
Many Republicans are saying, its illegal.
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...snt-have-kings

"On the topic that had you mad this weekend: No president — whether named Obama or Trump or Biden or AOC — has unilateral power to rewrite immigration law or to cut taxes or to raise taxes. This is because America doesn't have kings," Sasse wrote.

If you want to eliminate the free, printed, money. people have to go back to work, but that requires opening the country, liberals and republicans have no clue what to do with the country, hence we close it down, then open it, then close it, then everyone bitches. So open it up, let the cards fall where they may. or fund the people, but to dump 2 trillion extra is criminal and printing money is too.

SO what do you want to do? The left wants more debt, more potbelly spending to bail out states, but at what cost, and what level. when does it stop
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-10-2020, 9:35 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
If you want to eliminate the free, printed, money. people have to go back to work, but that requires opening the country, liberals and republicans have no clue what to do with the country, hence we close it down, then open it, then close it, then everyone bitches. So open it up, let the cards fall where they may. or fund the people, but to dump 2 trillion extra is criminal and printing money is too.

SO what do you want to do? The left wants more debt, more potbelly spending to bail out states, but at what cost, and what level. when does it stop

Doug you say “printing money is criminal.” How much money should there be... what’s the exact right amount? How do you know if there is too much or too little money in circulation?
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-10-2020, 9:43 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Doug you say “printing money is criminal.” How much money should there be... what’s the exact right amount? How do you know if there is too much or too little money in circulation?
We lost control when we stopped backing printed currency with Gold. So now its a print a thon and its a joke. Its all fake money, hedged on fake earring reports by fake people. Total shell game, and all the free money in the world will not fix any of the countries issues. Print away!
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-10-2020, 9:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
The left wants more debt, more potbelly spending to bail out states, but at what cost, and what level. when does it stop
Uh huh, that's what "the left" want. News flash, "the right" have control of the reigns and they were running a $1b budget deficit before the pandemic. Now it's $3T. So yeah cool your jets on what "the left" wants fiscally. The right needs to have a radical re-evaluation on military spending and tax burden before preaching fiscal responsibility.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-10-2020, 10:01 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
We lost control when we stopped backing printed currency with Gold. So now its a print a thon and its a joke. Its all fake money, hedged on fake earring reports by fake people. Total shell game, and all the free money in the world will not fix any of the countries issues. Print away!
Agree 100%. Well not maybe 100% but 95%, there is some scope for fiscal leveraging away from the gold standard but no doubt the printing presses are currently out of control and the piper will need to be paid at some stage.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       08-10-2020, 10:16 AM Reply   
Imagine just for a moment the brick****ting if Obama had popped a megadonor in charge of the USPS a couple months ahead of an election. The hypocrisy is both astounding and yet strangely unsurprising. Trumpers clearly care nothing for democracy if it's deemed to be in their way.
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-10-2020, 10:30 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Uh huh, that's what "the left" want. News flash, "the right" have control of the reigns and they were running a $1b budget deficit before the pandemic. Now it's $3T. So yeah cool your jets on what "the left" wants fiscally. The right needs to have a radical re-evaluation on military spending and tax burden before preaching fiscal responsibility.
Uh, you have to have your head in your ass, if you think printing money is the answer. ITs total BS, but its so bad, that everyone ignores it and dumps on the next gen. The libtards are the best at it. And no I dont want to print more fake money, the left wants 3 trillion, the right wants 1 trillion I want 0 trillions.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-10-2020, 10:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
Uh, you have to have your head in your ass, if you think printing money is the answer. ITs total BS, but its so bad, that everyone ignores it and dumps on the next gen. The libtards are the best at it. And no I dont want to print more fake money, the left wants 3 trillion, the right wants 1 trillion I want 0 trillions.
He just agreed with you.
Quote:
Agree 100%. Well not maybe 100% but 95%, there is some scope for fiscal leveraging away from the gold standard but no doubt the printing presses are currently out of control and the piper will need to be paid at some stage.
Then he explained how the right, who is in control, actually spend much much more.
Quote:
Uh huh, that's what "the left" want. News flash, "the right" have control of the reigns and they were running a $1b budget deficit before the pandemic. Now it's $3T. So yeah cool your jets on what "the left" wants fiscally. The right needs to have a radical re-evaluation on military spending and tax burden before preaching fiscal responsibility.
Whos head is hiding?
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-10-2020, 11:25 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
We lost control when we stopped backing printed currency with Gold. So now its a print a thon and its a joke. Its all fake money, hedged on fake earring reports by fake people. Total shell game, and all the free money in the world will not fix any of the countries issues. Print away!
Set aside needless hording of a resource that gets used in tech, can you tell me how backing it with gold would work? The gov't buys millions and millions of ounces of gold (with dollars?) and then what? How many dollars would be the right number of dollars in circulation?
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-10-2020, 11:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Agree 100%. Well not maybe 100% but 95%, there is some scope for fiscal leveraging away from the gold standard but no doubt the printing presses are currently out of control and the piper will need to be paid at some stage.
So Ralph it sounds like you know how many dollars is the right number of dollars to have in circulation? Can you share your theory and how it works?
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-10-2020, 12:28 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
So Ralph it sounds like you know how many dollars is the right number of dollars to have in circulation? Can you share your theory and how it works?
Unfortunately no, a lot above my pay grade. But I can say the fractional banking system has a good mix of stimulus and stability. Once you don't tie the value of money to anything and you rely exclusively on confidence then the boom bust cycles are exaggerated and instability is increased.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-10-2020, 12:32 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
Uh, you have to have your head in your ass, if you think printing money is the answer. ITs total BS, but its so bad, that everyone ignores it and dumps on the next gen. The libtards are the best at it. And no I dont want to print more fake money, the left wants 3 trillion, the right wants 1 trillion I want 0 trillions.
95SN spoke for me but yes, I'm not disputing that printing money is bad, I'm disputing that the Republicans are more fiscally responsible than the Democrats. I know that is the rhetoric that "conservatives" like to push out but looking back historically over the last dozen or so administrations it's just not the case.
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-10-2020, 12:51 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
95SN spoke for me but yes, I'm not disputing that printing money is bad, I'm disputing that the Republicans are more fiscally responsible than the Democrats. I know that is the rhetoric that "conservatives" like to push out but looking back historically over the last dozen or so administrations it's just not the case.
I was not saying Ralph or anyone has their head, actually in their ass, was saying anyone who believes fake currency is stable is crazy, and making more fake money is worse.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-10-2020, 11:58 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
I was not saying Ralph or anyone has their head, actually in their ass, was saying anyone who believes fake currency is stable is crazy, and making more fake money is worse.
So can you please explain how you would create a "real currency" that is stable?
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-11-2020, 12:00 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Unfortunately no, a lot above my pay grade. But I can say the fractional banking system has a good mix of stimulus and stability. Once you don't tie the value of money to anything and you rely exclusively on confidence then the boom bust cycles are exaggerated and instability is increased.
I don't know what you are arguing in this context. What do you mean by "fractional banking system," and how is it different from our current system?
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-11-2020, 1:39 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
So can you please explain how you would create a "real currency" that is stable?
this is very simple, back the paper with gold. done!
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       08-11-2020, 2:42 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
So yes, its totally different from the lefts riots, as its not a riot, just a protest. And dont be fooled, its a real protest, those people are protesting the removal of their 1st amendment rights. like it or not.
And we know this because Sturgis is where our 1st amendment rights come from. Otherwise it'd be just a party, like every other year.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       08-11-2020, 2:45 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
this is very simple, back the paper with gold. done!
You'd need to remove 75% of the currency in circulation at the current price of gold.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-11-2020, 4:34 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
this is very simple, back the paper with gold. done!
how much gold?
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-11-2020, 5:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
You'd need to remove 75% of the currency in circulation at the current price of gold.

But wouldn’t that assume that you would give gold a value relative to its value in fake money? I’m assuming that if all currently issued dollars are phony, that there must be some other obvious way to peg an intrinsic value against some certain amount of gold?
Old     (skiboarder)      Join Date: Oct 2006       08-11-2020, 7:00 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
But wouldn’t that assume that you would give gold a value relative to its value in fake money? I’m assuming that if all currently issued dollars are phony, that there must be some other obvious way to peg an intrinsic value against some certain amount of gold?
It has been done before: executive order 6102. The US seized all US gold and then re-valuated it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exec...r_6102#Effects
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-11-2020, 7:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
I don't know what you are arguing in this context. What do you mean by "fractional banking system," and how is it different from our current system?
"Gold standard" every dollar you print has to be backed with an equal value of gold on deposit
"Fractional banking system" every dollar you lend has to have a fixed proportion of money on deposit
"Fiat banking system" no requirement for a reserve of gold.

The US dropped the gold standard in 1971 moving to a fiat currency.

The fractional banking system allows an expansion of the money supply because the banks can lend more than they hold in reserve by a fixed proportion but the system still has limits because there is a proportion of gold which sits in reserve.

Now the government can just print money as they please with no tie back to something of independent value, in theory every dollar they print makes every dollar in circulation worth a little bit less, ie inflationary.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-11-2020, 7:21 AM Reply   
The other issue to consider is when you run a fractional lending system with interest there is never enough money in the system to ever repay the debt because the debt increases faster than the money supply by the rate of interest for ever over time. I can't quite wrap my head around the implications of that but it doesn't sound like a good thing.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-11-2020, 7:26 AM Reply   
Oh and Auckland is back in level 3 lockdown, 4 new cases of community transmission descovered yesterday. They have put us in to a semi hard lock down for 3 days while the track and trace apparatus swings into gear. Hopefully they find the source and control the spread so we can reopen asap. Will be interesting to see how competent the government is in controlling the outbreak.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-11-2020, 7:33 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
"Gold standard" every dollar you print has to be backed with an equal value of gold on deposit
"Fractional banking system" every dollar you lend has to have a fixed proportion of money on deposit
"Fiat banking system" no requirement for a reserve of gold.

The US dropped the gold standard in 1971 moving to a fiat currency.

The fractional banking system allows an expansion of the money supply because the banks can lend more than they hold in reserve by a fixed proportion but the system still has limits because there is a proportion of gold which sits in reserve.

Now the government can just print money as they please with no tie back to something of independent value, in theory every dollar they print makes every dollar in circulation worth a little bit less, ie inflationary.
"equal value of gold" makes no sense because you are assuming that your fake money has a value in the first place aren't you?

Rather wouldn't you say $100 is equal to 1/10th of an ounce of gold (or something like that)? And then the value of your currency goes up or down with commodity supply and demand?

Fractional lending in private banking can happen whether or not currency is backed by a commodity, no?

Why does gold have independent value? You can't eat it and you can't build a house from it. It's tangible and rare, but unless you own a semiconductor plant, you probably aren't putting it to use as a resource? Couldn't we just as easily have a "crude oil standard" or a "ruby standard" or whatever?
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-11-2020, 8:18 AM Reply   
Harris.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       08-11-2020, 8:21 AM Reply   
Yep. Not my pick but not too surprising.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-11-2020, 8:39 AM Reply   
Not my pick either yet kinda expected.
I dont think it makes a huge diff either way. The election is trump V. any functioning adult.
now, the VP debate just got better, Will Pence need a chaperone?
Old     (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       08-11-2020, 10:14 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
Not my pick either yet kinda expected.
I dont think it makes a huge diff either way. The election is trump V. any functioning adult.
now, the VP debate just got better, Will Pence need a chaperone?
Biden might. Unless it's okay to sniff your running mate.

The VP debate wont matter. People will be continuously laughing at Biden's performance from His debates, that the public won't even remember the vps'
Old     (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       08-11-2020, 10:28 AM Reply   
Sleepy Joe picked Harris just to see her destroy Pence in a debate, can't wait!
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-11-2020, 10:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
"equal value of gold" makes no sense because you are assuming that your fake money has a value in the first place aren't you?
If you are running a gold standard then a bank note is a promise to be redeemed in the equivalent amount of gold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Fractional lending in private banking can happen whether or not currency is backed by a commodity, no?
Yes but it has no meaning unless it is tied back to something of independent value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Why does gold have independent value? You can't eat it and you can't build a house from it. It's tangible and rare, but unless you own a semiconductor plant, you probably aren't putting it to use as a resource? Couldn't we just as easily have a "crude oil standard" or a "ruby standard" or whatever?
Gold has been historically used because as you point out it is tangible and rare, and has a lot of uses, is mostly universally valued, and is dense in terms of space to value. Yes you could use anything but it seems gold ticks the most boxes.
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-11-2020, 11:53 AM Reply   
Kammy called him a racists, and said she supported the women who said Joe sexually harassed them. She said "I believe them" but now, she is cool with it. Funny how the tides turn. She's as 2 faced as you can get, we will see how low she can go
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-11-2020, 12:10 PM Reply   
the lefts choice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV8_-zK6vzs
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-11-2020, 12:11 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
If you are running a gold standard then a bank note is a promise to be redeemed in the equivalent amount of gold.


Yes but it has no meaning unless it is tied back to something of independent value.


Gold has been historically used because as you point out it is tangible and rare, and has a lot of uses, is mostly universally valued, and is dense in terms of space to value. Yes you could use anything but it seems gold ticks the most boxes.
I have always found it comical that someone in time saw a rock and decided that that was the one thing to die for and to make a system of finance and basically governing decisions around. Something that if you simply find more of it, you are now rich beyond your dreams but did almost nothing to substain life especially in the early days.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-11-2020, 12:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
Kammy called him a racists, and said she supported the women who said Joe sexually harassed them. She said "I believe them" but now, she is cool with it. Funny how the tides turn. She's as 2 faced as you can get, we will see how low she can go
Can you post a link to that? As i recall, she criticized his school integration views on busing in the 70's?
Is being "two faced" a deal breaker for you?
Im just going to guess she is headed to the White House. Just a gut feeling, a hunch if you will.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-11-2020, 12:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
I have always found it comical that someone in time saw a rock and decided that that was the one thing to die for and to make a system of finance and basically governing decisions around. Something that if you simply find more of it, you are now rich beyond your dreams but did almost nothing to substain life especially in the early days.
Not someone, the vast majority of people. If you have something that someone else values then you can trade it to get something you value. That gives both things value. It's not that hard a concept to understand surely.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-11-2020, 11:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Not someone, the vast majority of people. If you have something that someone else values then you can trade it to get something you value. That gives both things value. It's not that hard a concept to understand surely.
if only money could serve that role...
Old     (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       08-12-2020, 12:44 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
Kammy called him a racists, and said she supported the women who said Joe sexually harassed them. She said "I believe them" but now, she is cool with it. Funny how the tides turn. She's as 2 faced as you can get, we will see how low she can go
You always have to check what Trump says

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...073923206.html

Trumptards believe every word.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       08-12-2020, 12:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
She's as 2 faced as you can get, we will see how low she can go
Sorry to tell you but the standard for being a two faced, lying, worthless human being has been set by Trump and you can't go any lower.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-12-2020, 2:20 AM Reply   
Kamala, the latest slave to be propped up on the auction block, has already been weighed and measured by the slave-trading democrats. They gave her a primary value of 2%.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-12-2020, 3:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
Can you post a link to that? As i recall, she criticized his school integration views on busing in the 70's?
Is being "two faced" a deal breaker for you?
Im just going to guess she is headed to the White House. Just a gut feeling, a hunch if you will.
Actually, she strongly implied he is a racist because he is and always has been, like most democrats.
Old     (skiboarder)      Join Date: Oct 2006       08-12-2020, 4:54 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
Kamala, the latest slave to be propped up on the auction block, has already been weighed and measured by the slave-trading democrats. They gave her a primary value of 2%.
What is wrong with you, man? She was a DA, Attorney General and a Senator. You can disagree with her, but calling her a token black lady in an attempt to belittle her says a lot more about you than the democrats.

Wow, just wow...
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-12-2020, 5:15 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
Actually, she strongly implied he is a racist because he is and always has been, like most democrats.
That must be why he just put a woman of color on the US presidential ticket for the 1st time.
Remind me how many Black US Representatives are Republicans? I mean if you plan on being the best party for Blacks to support you must have some of that group on your team, right? You have that one right? Trumps black? OH, yeah hes out. You have NONE. Go ahead make the claim Biden/Dems are racist. Im sure many of the FOX faithful will suck it up, and no one else is quite that dumb.
Are you counting Kanye as your sole black now that trump is running him to split votes? Isnt that illegal? Voter fraud? I hear many people saying Biden is going to run David Duke to counter.
Catch the grifter on Hannity last night? All those environmental problems with Windmills, Wow. Going to kill the value of your home. Meanwhile, We will be fracking in single family neighborhoods.
Come on Man!. Should be a fun 3 months watching the grifter self destruct. lol
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-12-2020, 5:20 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
Kamala, the latest slave to be propped up on the auction block, has already been weighed and measured by the slave-trading democrats. They gave her a primary value of 2%.
This post causes me believe you are fired up. Must have just departed from your local klan get together.
Careful when you lean forward, your hand is tipped, your cards are showing. Bigot.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-12-2020, 5:41 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Not someone, the vast majority of people. If you have something that someone else values then you can trade it to get something you value. That gives both things value. It's not that hard a concept to understand surely.
Easy concept, just fake. Gold has been something that people decided had value before they even knew of electricity. It was just something pretty. For the most part it still is something that looks pretty outside the electrical conductivity. We all act like it is something to hang out hats on but it is just fake as anything. I can not eat it or substain life with it. Only thing that it has going for it is not everyone has it. Kind of the same as money that we print. Some have it and some do not. It is controlled and can be created or destroyed for a desired outcome. Just don't see the point of people acting like a gold standard is as real as anything else.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-12-2020, 5:43 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
This post causes me believe you are fired up. Must have just departed from your local klan get together.
Careful when you lean forward, your hand is tipped, your cards are showing. Bigot.
Democrats are the only party of the klan. Remember you elected a high level klansman up until 2010 and that stopped because he died. You created the klan and still create race based division to this day.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-12-2020, 5:44 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
This post causes me believe you are fired up. Must have just departed from your local klan get together.
Careful when you lean forward, your hand is tipped, your cards are showing. Bigot.
Oh don't worry. I believe it just came out (from her family) that Harris family actually used to own slaves. Heads are exploding as we speak.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-12-2020, 5:56 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Oh don't worry. I believe it just came out (from her family) that Harris family actually used to own slaves. Heads are exploding as we speak.
Only yours and all the republicans that are afraid of Kamala Harris. Catch Tucker Carlson getting corrected last night?
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/tucke...b6fc009a5ef620

This should be a very entertaining election.
Team trump plan, Slow the mail, run a mentally ill Black entertainer to split votes and lie daily. Took trump campaign less than an hour to start the lies about Harris. Minutes to fact check them.
Then there is the backbone of his election, his #1 Covid response ranking. 220,000 to 250,000 dead by Nov 3. Vote.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-12-2020, 6:01 AM Reply   
LOL Potato Head Joe!

So let’s get this straight. Libtards destroyed Democrat run Hell hole city’s For weeks in the name of BLM, they ripped down statues of former slavers in the Name of “Racism“. Then Potato head Biden nominates Kamala Harris to VP (A person who’s family were slavers) to the Vice President. OMG I thought the Green New Deal was about a whacky as you Dems got, but this just takes the cake. THANK YOU Joe BinHide-in your party is so morally broken. You tried to get the black vote and you picked the lowest Polling black woman available, Thank You TRUMP 2020
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-12-2020, 6:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Easy concept, just fake. Gold has been something that people decided had value before they even knew of electricity. It was just something pretty. For the most part it still is something that looks pretty outside the electrical conductivity. We all act like it is something to hang out hats on but it is just fake as anything. I can not eat it or substain life with it. Only thing that it has going for it is not everyone has it. Kind of the same as money that we print. Some have it and some do not. It is controlled and can be created or destroyed for a desired outcome. Just don't see the point of people acting like a gold standard is as real as anything else.
Guess you should go back to bartering everything you do for food to be morally consistent then. Not that being morally consistency seems high on your to do list.
Old     (skiboarder)      Join Date: Oct 2006       08-12-2020, 6:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Oh don't worry. I believe it just came out (from her family) that Harris family actually used to own slaves. Heads are exploding as we speak.
Are they? Whose heads? 13 or our first 14 presidents owned slaves. What does her family owning slaves 150+ years ago have to do with anything today?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-12-2020, 6:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Guess you should go back to bartering everything you do for food to be morally consistent then. Not that being morally consistency seems high on your to do list.
You would not no morals if it hit you in the face. What does picking a rock to be the standard for all life have to do with morals? If anything it has cause moral degradation, however it has nothing to do with anything. Please tell me how a rock should be the basis for government? Should be go back to a watery tart handing out swords as a system of government too
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-12-2020, 6:56 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiboarder View Post
Are they? Whose heads? 13 or our first 14 presidents owned slaves. What does her family owning slaves 150+ years ago have to do with anything today?
You tell me. You guys are the ones running around tearing down anything you can that had to do with slaves. You are trying to get rid of Washington, Jefferson and who ever else from history. You are even promoting an agenda to remove 1776 as the of founding the US and replacing it with the date the slave trade started So, you tell me.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-12-2020, 6:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
LOL Potato Head Joe!

So let’s get this straight. Libtards destroyed Democrat run Hell hole city’s For weeks in the name of BLM, they ripped down statues of former slavers in the Name of “Racism“. Then Potato head Biden nominates Kamala Harris to VP (A person who’s family were slavers) to the Vice President. OMG I thought the Green New Deal was about a whacky as you Dems got, but this just takes the cake. THANK YOU Joe BinHide-in your party is so morally broken. You tried to get the black vote and you picked the lowest Polling black woman available, Thank You TRUMP 2020
I only thought white people owned slaves, or is she another half black person who is only black in the name of politics?
Old     (skiboarder)      Join Date: Oct 2006       08-12-2020, 7:13 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
You tell me. You guys are the ones running around tearing down anything you can that had to do with slaves. You are trying to get rid of Washington, Jefferson and who ever else from history. You are even promoting an agenda to remove 1776 as the of founding the US and replacing it with the date the slave trade started So, you tell me.
Me, no, not me. Don't lump me in with the idiots on the extremes of either side. You used the ambiguous pronoun, not me. I have no explaining to do.

Only simpletons think there are two ways to think.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-12-2020, 7:36 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiboarder View Post
Me, no, not me. Don't lump me in with the idiots on the extremes of either side. You used the ambiguous pronoun, not me. I have no explaining to do.

Only simpletons think there are two ways to think.
You only have 2 ways to vote, so you are either on one side or the other. In this case, one side is in the middle of a taliban cleansing and have elected representatives that match that thinking. If you support then, then you are "them". I don't care if people were slave owners, however there is a certain large sector of democrats that want her and her family erased from history. You may think it is a small sector, however the democrats have allowed this events to happen in a very large public square, so it is pretty much any democrat with any real power and to get that power they needed a very large voting block to support them in those positions. While you like to think you are not part of the radicals, you pretty much are.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-12-2020, 7:42 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
Kammy called him a racists, and said she supported the women who said Joe sexually harassed them. She said "I believe them" but now, she is cool with it. Funny how the tides turn. She's as 2 faced as you can get, we will see how low she can go
It just shows you how dangerous democrats are. They at the drop of a hat will accuse someone of the most horrible dreadful things that will ruin their lives. Literally ruin their lives and say it knowing darn well it is not true, yet turn around and back track as long as they get a share of the power. Like I have said, democrats are dangerous to our democracy.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-12-2020, 7:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
if only money could serve that role...
There is a very large segment of society that thinks Air Jordans are that currency. Maybe we should switch to Air Currency.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-12-2020, 8:08 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
There is a very large segment of society that thinks Air Jordans are that currency. Maybe we should switch to Air Currency.
I think this may be one of the few issues you and I agree on Delta. Cheers!
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-12-2020, 9:02 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
I think this may be one of the few issues you and I agree on Delta. Cheers!
Well done.
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-12-2020, 9:24 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
It just shows you how dangerous democrats are. They at the drop of a hat will accuse someone of the most horrible dreadful things that will ruin their lives. Literally ruin their lives and say it knowing darn well it is not true, yet turn around and back track as long as they get a share of the power. Like I have said, democrats are dangerous to our democracy.
What i find so funny, is after living in the south, as my main location. the local black community views the democrats as the evil. slave owning, ex pat northerners who moved down, took over the plantations. inslaved more blacks, and created the KKK. fought to keep slavery, and jim crow, so i am confused. ITs not the white folks who really know the background, its the black folks who lived it. Most of the older black folks, i have spoke to are republican in nature, church going, family focused, and a lot baptist. So i think its funny how the left try's to spin the truth to cover their history.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-12-2020, 10:36 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
It just shows you how dangerous democrats are. They at the drop of a hat will accuse someone of the most horrible dreadful things that will ruin their lives. Literally ruin their lives and say it knowing darn well it is not true, yet turn around and back track as long as they get a share of the power. Like I have said, democrats are dangerous to our democracy.
Actually what she said was that she knew he wasn't racist but she felt hurt that he supported some bus stuff or whatever. But lets not have facts get in the way of the Orange Messiah's narrative.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6-UC8yr0Aw

Last edited by ralph; 08-12-2020 at 10:43 AM.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       08-12-2020, 10:37 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
What i find so funny, is after living in the south, as my main location. the local black community views the democrats as the evil. slave owning, ex pat northerners who moved down, took over the plantations. inslaved more blacks, and created the KKK. fought to keep slavery, and jim crow, so i am confused. ITs not the white folks who really know the background, its the black folks who lived it. Most of the older black folks, i have spoke to are republican in nature, church going, family focused, and a lot baptist. So i think its funny how the left try's to spin the truth to cover their history.
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-12-2020, 10:44 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Actually what she said was that she knew he wasn't racist but she felt hurt that he supported some bus stuff or whatever. But let facts get int he way of the Orange Messaih's narrative.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6-UC8yr0Aw
Why do you care about Americas politics as you are NZ? Its very much like Americans making comments about politics in your country. Why do you engage in something you do not know? Not being mean, just curious why?
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-12-2020, 2:21 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
Why do you care about Americas politics as you are NZ? Its very much like Americans making comments about politics in your country. Why do you engage in something you do not know? Not being mean, just curious why?
I find it enormously entertaining. Especially with the mango menace in charge. Feel free to comment on NZ politics, I'll give you a chocolate fish if you can finish a sentence without falling asleep.
Old     (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       08-13-2020, 12:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
Why do you care about Americas politics as you are NZ? Its very much like Americans making comments about politics in your country. Why do you engage in something you do not know? Not being mean, just curious why?
Do you not think everyone in the world is tuning in on the chitshow ?
Old     (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       08-13-2020, 12:37 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Democrats are the only party of the klan. Remember you elected a high level klansman up until 2010 and that stopped because he died. You created the klan and still create race based division to this day.
Forget the clan, your party is backing the Nazi's, and by your party I mean You. Can't get any more fascist than them!
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