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Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-11-2016, 12:37 PM Reply   
Hey I'll try and make a long story short, when I took out all the flooded lead acid batterys out of my gem car the car rode so stiff it was a joke. Ya see the car was designed to carry almost 500 Lbs in battery and when I removed that weight the shocks were way to stiff. So I searched around and the only shocks that I could find were some Air Shocks off a Honda Gold Wing. Well they made the ride awesome but they are to soft and they don't make stiffer springs Ect. I have come to the conclusion that a sway bar addition will fix my problem. The car rides great in a straight line it just handles like a desert truck on the road and the lean in the corners is insane. Well this is where it gets tough.
It's hard to find any information because this is like a 1 off application. I was looking for some guidance in trying to set somthing up. Being a complete rookie at sway bars I am looking for some Ideas.

Here is my front end.
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Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-11-2016, 12:41 PM Reply   
Another shot of the front end.
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Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004 Location: Tyler       08-11-2016, 1:26 PM Reply   
they basically link the two sides together to that downward force on one side is offset somewhat

there should be 4 connection points, 2 on the suspension and 2 on the body. keep in mind suspension uptravel, it will have to pivot with the suspension.
here's a sway bar for a jeep. its the rusty piece going through the freshly painted black part with rubber insulator. those are quick disconnects that connect the bar to the axle.


you might also just add a second shock to each side to stiffen it up a bit. or change the angle of the shocks. you could into shock valving for a motocross application as well. may have to fab some stiffers springs
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-11-2016, 2:10 PM Reply   
Thank you for the reply. I know the basics of how they work. I installed front and rear bars on my Bug back in high school and My 911 years later Theses were bolt up kits or bars that had built in attachment points and the links were all diald in. What I'm talking about is figuring out how to get started with starting from scratch. I have no Idea how to copy a kit? Would you look to a off-road sway bar as somthing to copy or a street application to copy. How would you know what size bars to go with Ect? Anyone know of a company or person that could help
Old     (mark197)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-11-2016, 2:19 PM Reply   
Check this out:
http://www.wildcatforums.net/forum/w...-sway-bar.html

Or buy this:
https://welderseries.com/blog/#!/p/49762034

Here you go have one custom built:
http://1speedway.com/index.php?route...tegory&path=76

A good article:
http://www.joesracing.com/rt-4180-setting-the-bar.html

Last edited by mark197; 08-11-2016 at 2:29 PM.
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004 Location: Tyler       08-11-2016, 2:20 PM Reply   
gotcha, wasn't sure how familiar you are with them.

geometry is different for an offroad application, but thats it.
I can tell you that the bar above is solid steel as they take some significant forces. How much does your gem weigh? thats and 1 1/4" solid bar on a 3500 lb rig.

Mark, that second link looks like a good one
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-11-2016, 3:58 PM Reply   
Mark V "Jack Pot" that Wild Cat sway bar looks like a bolt on App.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-11-2016, 4:11 PM Reply   
I just called them I need to get info on the size and with but with a little work this front bar looks like it will do the trick. @ $649 the price seems a bit high for what I'm gonna have to do to make it work, If it was a direct bolt up application for my GEM I would be like, Where is the "buy now" button.
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Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-11-2016, 4:27 PM Reply   
Nacho Looks like a stock GEM comes in at 1280 Lbs So Im guessing my'n is in the 1000 Pound range. Say's the Artic cat WildCat is 1300 Lbs so its real close in weight to a stock GEM cart. You thins the -200 LB difference in my gem Vs the Wildcat will make difference or its something to fret over?
here is a full data sheet on the weight and specs
https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/fi...v/gem4pass.pdf
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004 Location: Tyler       08-11-2016, 9:19 PM Reply   
Not at all.
Old     (mark197)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-12-2016, 6:20 AM Reply   
You can kind of compensate for weight by not preloading the bar at all.
Old     (ifishok)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-12-2016, 8:26 AM Reply   
Never been to a sway bar before, what's it like?
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       08-12-2016, 9:30 AM Reply   
Ehhh I am afraid a Sway bar may not make you happy...

(Nerd note: I autocross and love to geek out on suspension set ups)

Sway bars are a different kind of stiffening, it is more about roll stiffness it will help you in the corners but IDK if you will get the desired result out of the straight line.

Id go with a big solid bar, not hollow.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-12-2016, 10:28 AM Reply   
^^^ I don't think I can get away with out using one.

The rear ends on the Gems have a design flaw. They are a solid rear Axel that flex's quite a bit and most of them end up cracking. (My'n was no exception) I had it re welded. But very shortly after I had it re welded it broke. And I'm 100% sure it had to do with the added mobility or sway my car had after adding softer shocks with more travel. I described the car as a desert truck on the road. Well if you know and see how they look like they are gonna tip over from all the body roll that's how my car feels. In fact when testing it I could feel the rear wheel come off the ground. Scary!!!!! The heavy batterys also worked as ballast down low to keep the car centerd. With all that weight down low gone the car seems top heavy and once it starts moving its not a great stable feeling. All the videos I have seen of the UTV's before and after the addition of a sway bar look like a sway bar will be the fix
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-12-2016, 1:50 PM Reply   
This is what I'm dealing with in the rear
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Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-18-2016, 3:28 PM Reply   
So I have been doing lots of re-search and I'm just slightly more educated then I was when I got started. The thickness of the bar & the length of the arms and where the Drop links connect all effect how it works. I have found places where I can buy all the specific parts but have no Idea what size bars or length connecting arms to co with. It's a total crap shoot at this point. And none of this stuff you can return. You buy it you own it.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-18-2016, 6:49 PM Reply   
Here is a quick drawing of what I was thinking.
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Old     (TTyler89)      Join Date: Jun 2015       08-18-2016, 10:04 PM Reply   
Why don't you order an anti roll bar kit from someone like Jerry Bickel Racing and build your own. The way your rearend looks, it would be super easy to do. Not much in parts cost, just some fab time.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-18-2016, 10:44 PM Reply   
Hey thanks for the tip on Jerry Bickel Racing, but they didn't seem to have what I need they did have 2 sway bar kits one for $300 and the other was close to $800. They seem more set up for drag race cars not road car's I found that PAC racing springs has a pretty good website with vendors like
Schnider Steering that offers all the parts needed to put your own bar together. The 20 Thousand dollar question is What parts should I order/ buy. Sure any of these places can sell you these parts or a kit. But no one will take anything back if it don't work. Once you buy it You own it. LOL I understand these small company's would never survive if they had a cost co return style policy.
Old     (TTyler89)      Join Date: Jun 2015       08-19-2016, 6:35 AM Reply   
Unfortunately on something like that it's hot rodding 101. Nothing is a direct drop in or guaranteed to work and you just have to fab something to make it work for your application. You essentially did the same thing when you swapped over to LIPO batteries. Nobody makes a direct kit and you made something work for you. With as little as the cart weights I thought one of those kits would work well for your setup. I would mount it to the frame by the shocks and run the the full length of the axle. Then run your connecting rods as close to the wheel as you could. That should help your axle from repeatedly breaking. If memory serves me right that kit was chromoly tubing so it'll have some spring to it vs dom that will just twist.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-19-2016, 8:24 AM Reply   
"Hot Rodding 101" yup I figured that was gonna pop up some where along the line when I asked for a recommendation on the size of the bar I should start with the guy offered zero advice only saying start with the stiffest and go down! I'm sure if I take his advise I'll have 4 or 5 $100 sway bars laying around before it's said and done
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-19-2016, 11:17 AM Reply   
This is what I was thinking of copying.(the photo is from a 68 Camarro) You can see how the arm has a Bend in it that allows for tire clearance and the mount point is more then 50% past the center of the a-Arm
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Old     (TTyler89)      Join Date: Jun 2015       08-19-2016, 11:19 AM Reply   
Ya that's kind of the nature of the beast when your doing something that no one else has. As far as stiffest and several bars laying around, you could make one work by changing how far/close you change the push rods to the center of the arm. The farther out the softer it is and the closer you get the stiffer it gets. You're pretty much in uncharted territory on this project. That or change out both of your shocks to a double adjustable one. I know with the strange shocks I run on my altered, you can change springs out all day and adjust the ride height anywhere you want. Then adjust the rebound and compression where you like it. It's just another thought. Those shocks aren't cheap though. But they make so many different strength springs that one pair is bound to be about right.
Old     (TTyler89)      Join Date: Jun 2015       08-19-2016, 11:32 AM Reply   
With a bar like you pictured and are thinking of it'll have to be either splinedon the ends or you'll have to weld the arms to the shaft for it to work. Now where you can get those shafts like that made, I honestly don't know. If it were mine, I'd mount the sway bar up at the top of the shocks and have the arms facing forward with the end links attached out by the wheels. Then just make your arms with 3-4 different holes along the arms and see what works for you. Though without seeing how the cowling fits, it's hard to say.
Old     (TTyler89)      Join Date: Jun 2015       08-19-2016, 11:35 AM Reply   
Sorry, I just realized I'm looking at the wrong picture for the front and rear. The rear would work this way and I see what your dealing with on the front.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-24-2016, 2:43 PM Reply   
A friend brought this to my attention and I think it could be the cause of my sway Issues.
the problem could be. My Air Shocks share a common air line Between them and they could be Charging each other as one go's down it can be charging the other shock to go up Like a SeeSaw, I have ordered new Shrader valves to Isolate each shock the The air from one shock cant effect the other, It would be awesome if it was just as easy as removing the line between the shocks & adding a shrader valve to each shock!

Below is a drawing of how my shocks are set up on the front & back
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Old    deltahoosier            08-24-2016, 3:20 PM Reply   
You set them up like a on a Harley. There you only have the one swing arm for stiffness and control motion. He may be on to something.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-24-2016, 4:07 PM Reply   
Yes I think your right. On a motorcycle Swing Arm both shocks work together because they cycle at the same rate. On a IRS rear end or a Independent front end they would work against each other if they were linked like my'n are
Old     (TTyler89)      Join Date: Jun 2015       08-24-2016, 8:07 PM Reply   
If that is the way you have them plumbed in, that is where your sway is stemming from. I know when you put airbags on a truck you never T them together for that exact reason.
Old     (cowwboy)      Join Date: Jul 2008       08-25-2016, 6:24 AM Reply   
Just like Tyler said, that will cause body roll even with sway bars on trucks with leveling bags.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-30-2016, 2:32 PM Reply   
Ok making progress.
Isolating the shocks via a dedicated line to each shock helped. I would say that 1/2 of the sway that I had was "self inflicted" I had a extra sub frame that I was able to use to mock up a vertual sway bar.
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Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-30-2016, 2:34 PM Reply   
I'm trying to work with rath racing they make sway bars for ATVs and Side By Sides. They seem to have what I may need. The challange is to find a bar that's pretty narrow
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-08-2016, 5:01 PM Reply   
Look what showed up today
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Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-08-2016, 5:02 PM Reply   
Yes it's gonna require some mods to make it work but it's a start
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Old     (TTyler89)      Join Date: Jun 2015       09-21-2016, 1:22 PM Reply   
How'd your sway bar end up working out for you?
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-21-2016, 2:36 PM Reply   
I'm working on it now. Along with 20 other projects LOL. the problem has been just when I think I got it handles and I fab up some Pieces I find out it will not work or its hitting something so I have to re make something I should have something to show tonight.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-21-2016, 2:41 PM Reply   
I'm going to end up bending my sway bar arms (somthing like this in the photo)
So that they extend out further along the A-Arm

Any tips on bending these Arms???
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Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-21-2016, 6:40 PM Reply   
Here are some pics of what I was thinking
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Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-21-2016, 6:41 PM Reply   
I would weld or bolt on a tab to the A-Arm to attach the lower HymeJoint
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Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-21-2016, 6:52 PM Reply   
Then I would weld or Bolt on a tab like this
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Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-22-2016, 7:14 AM Reply   
Hey anyone know where I could find a small hiemjoint like this one
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Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-24-2016, 12:05 PM Reply   
I was able to bend the arms out so that the attachment points are further out. Almost 1/2 out in the a-arm
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Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-24-2016, 12:06 PM Reply   
I will drill a hole in the A-Arm itself and bolt the link to the arm.
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Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-29-2016, 7:01 PM Reply   
Well I finished up tonight.
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Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-29-2016, 7:02 PM Reply   
It's 100% better sway GONE!!!
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Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-29-2016, 7:04 PM Reply   
^^^^ The Drop link looks just a bit tilted back because the car is on jacks when it's on the ground flat the drop links are at a 90 to the bar.
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Old     (cowwboy)      Join Date: Jul 2008       09-30-2016, 8:37 AM Reply   
Looks good.

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