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Old    deltahoosier            12-07-2016, 11:03 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
The peak at 7000ppm 500 million years ago was a result of a comet impact. Currently we are at 400ppm, the highest for 400,000 years. If you are suggesting that Trump is ok since a comet impact is worse then i have to agree.

Dinosaur Era Had 5 Times Today's CO2
http://www.livescience.com/44330-jur...n-dioxide.html



Do high levels of CO2 in the past contradict the warming effect of CO2?

https://www.skepticalscience.com/co2-higher-in-past.htm

Old    deltahoosier            12-07-2016, 11:10 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhorn View Post
You should really start listening to more than one source for your news.
There was no made up temperature data.

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/02/not...perature-data/

What environmentalist has "morphed to weather change"? Not Scientists that are actually researching it.

Also the EPA makes regulations which for all purposes are laws.

We do agree that bureaucracy is self feeding and tends to grow. But that doesn't mean that the EPA should have its legs cut off.

At this point with 99% of all the scientist who have looked into Climate change enough to have an opinion worth considering agreeing that Climate Change is real and is a problem, not believing in it, makes asking if you believe in gravity a legitimate question.
I look at all things for an argument. You do realize that scientists get biases as well when they have to come up with a research topic and have to product data along those lines to continue to get funded. Not saying they all cheat, however they are motivated.

You guys do realized that these cycles happened before we existed so what was the excuse then? pretty sure the central valley of california was underwater so how did we do that and what makes you think that it will not do it again? You love to believe in biological processes (and you would be correct), however you completely miss out on the weather.

Love the irony. If we just believe in it and give all our money away to third world nations, the weather will never change and we will never have to adapt. Maybe we should fix up the old temples and throw virgins off them in order for the weather to not change.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-07-2016, 11:37 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
Do high levels of CO2 in the past contradict the warming
As in all complex systems the answer is not simple:
https://www.skepticalscience.com/print.php?r=77

In this article they point to the suns reduced activity when co2 was elevated to 2000+ combined to moderate the temp effect of high co2.

Interestingly, they say the last time co2 was at this level with the current level of solar activity the avg water temp was 11 degrees higher and the sea level 25mtr higher. Take a look at what happens to California when you raise sea levels by 25mtrs....

That said, even if man has limited effect on the climate, there is no reason to not be kinder to the planet.
Old    deltahoosier            12-07-2016, 12:22 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
As in all complex systems the answer is not simple:
https://www.skepticalscience.com/print.php?r=77

In this article they point to the suns reduced activity when co2 was elevated to 2000+ combined to moderate the temp effect of high co2.

Interestingly, they say the last time co2 was at this level with the current level of solar activity the avg water temp was 11 degrees higher and the sea level 25mtr higher. Take a look at what happens to California when you raise sea levels by 25mtrs....

That said, even if man has limited effect on the climate, there is no reason to not be kinder to the planet.
I agree, however how much do people need to fall for the wealth sharing scheme's? Voting away your rights in the name of something we really don't have control over?
Old     (wiscxstar)      Join Date: Mar 2002       12-07-2016, 12:41 PM Reply   
Quote:
I am pretty sure you don't know what the bible actually says on those items so there is that. I believe in many things and it does not make the bible wrong. It may make what you think you know about the bible wrong but it does not make the bible wrong.
The bible is not complicated at all. I was raised a Christian and read the bible as a child/pre-teen. I then read the bible again after college. I had also attended a fundamentalist church after that with my in-laws in an attempt to attend the same church as my wife's family..did some of the Bible study, etc. Then I eventually just had to come to terms with the fact that I can't live my life ignoring reason and logic just in order to make Christianity work. You don't need to open your heart to read the Bible, you need to open your mind. Once you apply basic human knowledge and logic, it is pretty easy to see it for what it is. We just as a human race cannot come to terms with our mortality. I admit it is hard, life is hard, and the truth is often difficult to accept.

The real irony here is that vast majority of so-called Christian conservative right treat the planet in a way that is completely un-Christ like. If you are correct, and you will face God after this life, you all may have some explaining to do, as to how putting profits, money, capitalism over the Earth and the people of the Earth are so how in line with the teachings of the Bible. I doubt God would care much about the argument that regulation kills business. I would bet money that if Jesus were alive (assuming in arguendo that he was real) he would be a pro-life liberal. While the environment has become monetized, the Church has become more monetized than ever.

You obviously are putting thought into global warming/climate change, but don't be the flat earth or geocentric guy of this day. The far right is the modern day version of what the Catholic Church was to science/knowledge in the past. I believe I saw a study that more and more Republican's now believe in man made global warming. Again, we need to get back to centrist Republicans and Democrats working together, and deal with the reality of the fragile planet we live on.

Humans are helping to warm the planet at a faster rate than ever, and what appears to be a faster rate than we will be able to adapt to (or maybe a large amount of us). If that doesn't concern you than at least help protect the environment just to be a good steward of the Earth, which is your Christian duty.

Last edited by wiscxstar; 12-07-2016 at 12:48 PM.
Old    deltahoosier            12-07-2016, 1:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiscxstar View Post
The bible is not complicated at all. I was raised a Christian and read the bible as a child/pre-teen. I then read the bible again after college. I had also attended a fundamentalist church after that with my in-laws in an attempt to attend the same church as my wife's family..did some of the Bible study, etc. Then I eventually just had to come to terms with the fact that I can't live my life ignoring reason and logic just in order to make Christianity work. You don't need to open your heart to read the Bible, you need to open your mind. Once you apply basic human knowledge and logic, it is pretty easy to see it for what it is. We just as a human race cannot come to terms with our mortality. I admit it is hard, life is hard, and the truth is often difficult to accept.

The real irony here is that vast majority of so-called Christian conservative right treat the planet in a way that is completely un-Christ like. If you are correct, and you will face God after this life, you all may have some explaining to do, as to how putting profits, money, capitalism over the Earth and the people of the Earth are so how in line with the teachings of the Bible. I doubt God would care much about the argument that regulation kills business. I would bet money that if Jesus were alive (assuming in arguendo that he was real) he would be a pro-life liberal. While the environment has become monetized, the Church has become more monetized than ever.

You obviously are putting thought into global warming/climate change, but don't be the flat earth or geocentric guy of this day. The far right is the modern day version of what the Catholic Church was to science/knowledge in the past. I believe I saw a study that more and more Republican's now believe in man made global warming. Again, we need to get back to centrist Republicans and Democrats working together, and deal with the reality of the fragile planet we live on.

Humans are helping to warm the planet at a faster rate than ever, and what appears to be a faster rate than we will be able to adapt to (or maybe a large amount of us). If that doesn't concern you than at least help protect the environment just to be a good steward of the Earth, which is your Christian duty.
I think you are putting too much thought into making Christianity work. It takes almost zero work to become and to be a Christian. It takes faith and a little prayer. You can choose to put as much work into it as you wish just like any relationship, you get out of it what you put into it; however, you will also have a need to understand your relationship with Christ. Thus, you will want to become more Christ like to become closer. It is a individual thing. Some people need more time with their family than others.

As far as biblical teaching on environmentalism? I would venture God would be pretty upset with people placing a God before him (environment) and not having faith in him. Man believing that man can save man. That is similar to the catholic (and muslim) faith that you just mentioned where they think they can save themselves through the scales of justice. Ever wonder why most environmentalists are staunch anti God types? What did Jesus say about your belief that you can save yourself? Maybe that is the inability for you to grasp your mortality by seeking what you believe is control (environmentalism). You do not have control. Jesus is very clear about that.

Funny you say Republicans are anti science but I put forth a fact and it does nothing for you. CO2 levels were way worse before humans. The earth was covered in water before. Covered in ice before. The earth was just fine. Still is fine. If you believe in Darwin's theories, then why all the fuss? I thought that is the glory of evolution. The ability to adapt and the weak die out. What could be more glorious and as you environmentalist like to say 'natural'.

You label the planet as "fragile". That sounds a little uppity in my view. How do you have the ability to label something as fragile when it has been here longer than you can mentally conceive and will be here long after you can conceive. Talking about having control issues. That is an emotional word.

You realize that a Republican Teddy Roosevelt started the modern conservation movement in America. Henry David Thoreau wrote about it, Roosevelt saw that these pure capitalists were destroying the resources and land at a unsubstainable rate. The conservation movement was alive in Germany and so on before Roosevelt. I believe in conservation for the most part. I don't believe in killing everything in site, however I do believe man is first in the pecking order. We do have to be smart about it, but I am not going to allow people to die for a tree.

Though Jesus said give unto Cesar which is Cesar's, he also was against the money changers in the temple. That has nothing to do with free trade and the ability for humans to trade goods and services. He also spoke about working to your ability. So, I guess Jesus was pretty much against the welfare state for those who can work but choose not to. With our obvious conflict in our conversation and our knowledge that people will abuse their power, a modest approach is in order.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-07-2016, 2:06 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
I agree, however how much do people need to fall for the wealth sharing scheme's? Voting away your rights in the name of something we really don't have control over?
That's why I said that the current system has been derailed and co opted but the solution is not to scrap "environmentalism" but to drive it in the right direction.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       12-07-2016, 8:15 PM Reply   
Is it humanly possible for Trump to be more of a vindictive crybaby bully? Wow.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       12-08-2016, 7:16 AM Reply   
^Yes it is. He could start acting like the liberals.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       12-08-2016, 7:33 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
Is it humanly possible for Trump to be more of a vindictive crybaby bully? Wow.
If that's what Trump is, he'd fit in well with BLM and on a lot of college campuses. Maybe we can send him to one of those liberal "safe spots" at a nearby university with some Play-Doh.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       12-08-2016, 8:28 AM Reply   
That's actually all that we liberals do in Nevada is play with play doh, plot riots and destruction of property, and make calls on our Obama phones. Basically like everyone who voted for Hillary, I guess.
Old     (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       12-08-2016, 8:44 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by psudy View Post
^Yes it is. He could start acting like the liberals.
That was good!
Old    deltahoosier            12-08-2016, 9:39 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
That's why I said that the current system has been derailed and co opted but the solution is not to scrap "environmentalism" but to drive it in the right direction.
I'll buy that.
Old    deltahoosier            12-08-2016, 9:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
That's actually all that we liberals do in Nevada is play with play doh, plot riots and destruction of property, and make calls on our Obama phones. Basically like everyone who voted for Hillary, I guess.
As Dr. Phil says, "you can't fix what you don't acknowledge". I'm proud of your first step. ;0)
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       12-08-2016, 10:23 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
As Dr. Phil says, "you can't fix what you don't acknowledge". I'm proud of your first step. ;0)
We've gotta do something while you guys are rollin' coal, burning books and pressing your robes and hoods, ya know?
Old    deltahoosier            12-08-2016, 11:39 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
We've gotta do something while you guys are rollin' coal, burning books and pressing your robes and hoods, ya know?
Well we do live in the stone age in middle America. We need coal and books to be burned to keep us warm. Robes and hoods keep you warm as well. You know, who says you have to look sloppy while keeping warm?
Old     (doublemwa)      Join Date: May 2016       12-08-2016, 12:10 PM Reply   
Only because everyone blames everything on Liberals around here I thought I would point out where Republicans interest really lie:

http://urbanmilwaukee.com/pressrelea...o-take-action/

I wonder why Paul Ryan wants to remove the "Buy American" portion of the bill......
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-08-2016, 12:49 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
Well we do live in the stone age in middle America. We need coal and books to be burned to keep us warm. Robes and hoods keep you warm as well. You know, who says you have to look sloppy while keeping warm?
Being cold is God's way of telling you to burn more Catholics
Old    deltahoosier            12-08-2016, 1:07 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Being cold is God's way of telling you to burn more Catholics
You have it backwards, they used to burn Christians.
Old    deltahoosier            12-08-2016, 1:11 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublemwa View Post
Only because everyone blames everything on Liberals around here I thought I would point out where Republicans interest really lie:

http://urbanmilwaukee.com/pressrelea...o-take-action/

I wonder why Paul Ryan wants to remove the "Buy American" portion of the bill......
Will be interesting to see why.

What is your opinion of this?

I think it is a bit dangerous to say buy only American with out a plan in place. Considering China hacked in to US Steel websites and stole trade secrets on how to make special steel products, I would love to stick it to them.
Old     (doublemwa)      Join Date: May 2016       12-08-2016, 2:05 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
Will be interesting to see why.

What is your opinion of this?

I think it is a bit dangerous to say buy only American with out a plan in place. Considering China hacked in to US Steel websites and stole trade secrets on how to make special steel products, I would love to stick it to them.
If I were a betting man, I would put big money on a union in WI has Ryan and others in their pocket. American Steel is going to cost a lot more than foreign steel. The contracts are probably already in place and requiring American steel is going to crush the bottom line.

I've heard some where in the past a competitive edge of China has is that they use recycled steel while most American manufactures produce steel.

Thoughts?
Old    deltahoosier            12-08-2016, 3:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublemwa View Post
If I were a betting man, I would put big money on a union in WI has Ryan and others in their pocket. American Steel is going to cost a lot more than foreign steel. The contracts are probably already in place and requiring American steel is going to crush the bottom line.

I've heard some where in the past a competitive edge of China has is that they use recycled steel while most American manufactures produce steel.

Thoughts?
That may be true. Have not heard too much on it other than they stole manufacturing secrets. Of course, countries do that all the time. Some countries allow military service to be complete if they go work abroad and bring back industrial knowledge.

Maybe this is along the lines of what was a big deal around here in the 1990's. We were selling China all this scrap so they can re-manufacture it and sell it back to us. I am sure this is still the case as you have pointed out. I just don't know what the point of it was/is? A deal to buy our debt? There is an old adage that basically states if you own someone a little, they own you. If you owe them a lot, you own them. Not sure how that works out for us. Maybe it keeps the world on the dollar standard because switching would bankrupt China?

I know Clinton sold missile components to China against Congresses wishes and I think he was the one that granted them acceptance into the World Trade Organization. Remember, they used to not be part of it. Now they are taking over. I really don't know what his motivation was for it because Bill did not strike me as share our wealth to the world kind of guy.

I know they are buying up housing like crazy here in California.

For projects, I can see how it would blow a budget and shut down a project if they increased the cost of materials without planning. If it was the Unions pressuring Ryan and Ryan listening, then it is starting to really validate what I have been thinking in regards to election politics. The Republican's and middle America Democrats (think working men and women) are merging.
Old     (doublemwa)      Join Date: May 2016       12-08-2016, 6:00 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
That may be true. Have not heard too much on it other than they stole manufacturing secrets. Of course, countries do that all the time. Some countries allow military service to be complete if they go work abroad and bring back industrial knowledge.

Maybe this is along the lines of what was a big deal around here in the 1990's. We were selling China all this scrap so they can re-manufacture it and sell it back to us. I am sure this is still the case as you have pointed out. I just don't know what the point of it was/is? A deal to buy our debt? There is an old adage that basically states if you own someone a little, they own you. If you owe them a lot, you own them. Not sure how that works out for us. Maybe it keeps the world on the dollar standard because switching would bankrupt China?

I know Clinton sold missile components to China against Congresses wishes and I think he was the one that granted them acceptance into the World Trade Organization. Remember, they used to not be part of it. Now they are taking over. I really don't know what his motivation was for it because Bill did not strike me as share our wealth to the world kind of guy.

I know they are buying up housing like crazy here in California.

For projects, I can see how it would blow a budget and shut down a project if they increased the cost of materials without planning. If it was the Unions pressuring Ryan and Ryan listening, then it is starting to really validate what I have been thinking in regards to election politics. The Republican's and middle America Democrats (think working men and women) are merging.
Not sure I follow....

On the surface it would appear the "bring jobs back" and spending domestic hallmark of the Republican party was only a sound bite and does not hold water.

As far middle america dems, I agree. Van Jones(?) made a good point a few nights ago in that the Dems were not clear on their message. The point being there are a lot of disenfranchised republicans who didn't want to vote for Trump. The Democratic campaign didn't do a good job of recognizing them. Could be the merger you're talking about.

1st time home buyers in the US is at an all time low for Americans. Foreigners make up the vast majority of all refinances and 1st time mortgages. It's crazy!
Old     (wiscxstar)      Join Date: Mar 2002       12-08-2016, 9:38 PM Reply   
Quote:
I think you are putting too much thought into making Christianity work. It takes almost zero work to become and to be a Christian. It takes faith and a little prayer. You can choose to put as much work into it as you wish just like any relationship, you get out of it what you put into it; however, you will also have a need to understand your relationship with Christ. Thus, you will want to become more Christ like to become closer. It is a individual thing. Some people need more time with their family than others.
It takes no work if you want to just stick your head in the sand, and pretend that the very book your run your life by doesn't contradict reality and fact. Or like many Christian's who just don't read the Bible and don't realize that the far fetched stories they were told in Sunday school are actually what the Bible states as fact and even worse what grown adults believe as fact. Do me a favor sometime, and just sit down for 15 minutes with an open mind. Just sit and think about the idea that God would create a son (or part of himself depending on the sect), and then sacrifice that son (or himself) to himself in order to save us from sin? That makes no sense. That is what happens when primitive tribes people make up stories to try to explain things. However, we as advanced human beings should be able to discern that, but many of us can't....or choose not to because we want it to be true, because we want immortality. So then we avoid the hard questions and difficult thought, and ramble about not understanding or being part of some big plan, and we just need to pray...

Quote:
As far as biblical teaching on environmentalism? I would venture God would be pretty upset with people placing a God before him (environment) and not having faith in him. Man believing that man can save man. That is similar to the catholic (and muslim) faith that you just mentioned where they think they can save themselves through the scales of justice. Ever wonder why most environmentalists are staunch anti God types? What did Jesus say about your belief that you can save yourself? Maybe that is the inability for you to grasp your mortality by seeking what you believe is control (environmentalism). You do not have control. Jesus is very clear about that
And this is exactly why Conservative Christian's are a concern. It is because of their fantasy that God is in control. However, if you are correct and if he was then why worry about about the "free market", or gay marriage, or even abortion...God will take care of that. so why do you need legislate? IF you need to legislate then you obviously don't have faith in him. The entire argument is circular and ridiculous.

Personally, I have no problem grasping my mortality, it is you my friend who have to tell yourself that you will have immortality in Heaven. Of course with that then the world is not that big of a concern to you because you will live forever in Heaven. Only a person concerned with their own mortality would be willing to sacrifice their own child just for immortality. I don't know about you, but I would rather burn in hell than even consider sacrificing by own child. It doesn't matter if God wasn't really going to have him do it, the fact is he was prepared to do it for God is the bigger problem. If you think even further into it, wouldn't an omniscient God not even need to do that because he would already know what was in someone's heart. That my friend is a selfish concern for mortality, and unfortunately one echoed throughout Christianity,...getting to Heaven is all that matters. On the other hand I have come to terms with my morality. My concern is for that of humanity now and in the future, including my children and their children. Additionally, the older I have become the more I have grown to appreciate the idea of conservation of all resources in general. It is a gratitude for what I have, and have had, and the want for future generations to enjoy it as well. I feel more alive than ever, and appreciate every day. I understand the fragile nature of our life and Earth, and appreciate it. It's like going though life drunk on religion, and then sobering up to the reality of life. The hardest part is just that you have to realize that someday you will not see your children again. However, that makes it even that more important then to be "present" in their life and "present" in the life of everyone you encounter.

I did not blame all Republicans, nor do I now. You sometimes seem to just type answers ignoring what I am even saying, it's almost like a canned response. I do blame the far right and those who in the party that care nothing about facts and reason, including the far Christian right. Republicans have done good things and still do things. Roosevelt and Lincoln were impressive Republicans (although the parties are not exactly the same as they once were), so is John McCain. It would have been interesting to see a President Kaisch, however, instead we have Donald Trump as his far right gang...anti-science, anti-education, anti-free speech, anti-environment etc. Also, do you really think Trump is going to be "Free Market"? Really? He is already picking winners and losers, and he is not even President yet.

Again, we need centrist Republicans and Democrats working together, common sense solutions. That was one of the large reasons (besides avoiding the reality of Trump as President). I was thinking that maybe, just maybe we would get a Democrat for President and a Republican Congress, which would be a mandate from the people that the parties need to come together, but that is not what happened. However, who knows after 4 years of Trump Crazy we may get there.
Old    deltahoosier            12-09-2016, 1:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublemwa View Post
Not sure I follow....

On the surface it would appear the "bring jobs back" and spending domestic hallmark of the Republican party was only a sound bite and does not hold water.

As far middle america dems, I agree. Van Jones(?) made a good point a few nights ago in that the Dems were not clear on their message. The point being there are a lot of disenfranchised republicans who didn't want to vote for Trump. The Democratic campaign didn't do a good job of recognizing them. Could be the merger you're talking about.

1st time home buyers in the US is at an all time low for Americans. Foreigners make up the vast majority of all refinances and 1st time mortgages. It's crazy!
I am not sure how you conclude that bringing jobs back is a sound bite with no real datapoints. Remember, that was Trumps platform. The individual Republicans I am sure still have some of their own agendas from state to state.

Van Jones is as confused as anyone. He met with one family that historically voted democrat until they finally voted for Trump or like the wife in the family did not vote at all. Now due to one interview, he is walking back all his racists overtones of "whitelash" in the voting. There are disenfranchised Republicans in regards to Trump. They wanted a more conservative family values type. I get that.

My take is, middle America type democrats are not the same as coastal democrats. Middle America was about division of labor, who got the spoils of business and workers rights. I think those are honest discussions and debates to have to a certain degree. Overall they are still religious, gun loving, and America first people. I think the democrat party has left them behind. I think when the democrats are supporting jobs leaving the country, bashing their religion, want to take their guns and putting illegals in front of citizens; they are looking for an alternative. Those items I mentioned play well in the city, now so much in the country.
Old    deltahoosier            12-09-2016, 2:16 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiscxstar View Post
It takes no work if you want to just stick your head in the sand, and pretend that the very book your run your life by doesn't contradict reality and fact. Or like many Christian's who just don't read the Bible and don't realize that the far fetched stories they were told in Sunday school are actually what the Bible states as fact and even worse what grown adults believe as fact. Do me a favor sometime, and just sit down for 15 minutes with an open mind. Just sit and think about the idea that God would create a son (or part of himself depending on the sect), and then sacrifice that son (or himself) to himself in order to save us from sin? That makes no sense. That is what happens when primitive tribes people make up stories to try to explain things. However, we as advanced human beings should be able to discern that, but many of us can't....or choose not to because we want it to be true, because we want immortality. So then we avoid the hard questions and difficult thought, and ramble about not understanding or being part of some big plan, and we just need to pray...



And this is exactly why Conservative Christian's are a concern. It is because of their fantasy that God is in control. However, if you are correct and if he was then why worry about about the "free market", or gay marriage, or even abortion...God will take care of that. so why do you need legislate? IF you need to legislate then you obviously don't have faith in him. The entire argument is circular and ridiculous.

Personally, I have no problem grasping my mortality, it is you my friend who have to tell yourself that you will have immortality in Heaven. Of course with that then the world is not that big of a concern to you because you will live forever in Heaven. Only a person concerned with their own mortality would be willing to sacrifice their own child just for immortality. I don't know about you, but I would rather burn in hell than even consider sacrificing by own child. It doesn't matter if God wasn't really going to have him do it, the fact is he was prepared to do it for God is the bigger problem. If you think even further into it, wouldn't an omniscient God not even need to do that because he would already know what was in someone's heart. That my friend is a selfish concern for mortality, and unfortunately one echoed throughout Christianity,...getting to Heaven is all that matters. On the other hand I have come to terms with my morality. My concern is for that of humanity now and in the future, including my children and their children. Additionally, the older I have become the more I have grown to appreciate the idea of conservation of all resources in general. It is a gratitude for what I have, and have had, and the want for future generations to enjoy it as well. I feel more alive than ever, and appreciate every day. I understand the fragile nature of our life and Earth, and appreciate it. It's like going though life drunk on religion, and then sobering up to the reality of life. The hardest part is just that you have to realize that someday you will not see your children again. However, that makes it even that more important then to be "present" in their life and "present" in the life of everyone you encounter.

I did not blame all Republicans, nor do I now. You sometimes seem to just type answers ignoring what I am even saying, it's almost like a canned response. I do blame the far right and those who in the party that care nothing about facts and reason, including the far Christian right. Republicans have done good things and still do things. Roosevelt and Lincoln were impressive Republicans (although the parties are not exactly the same as they once were), so is John McCain. It would have been interesting to see a President Kaisch, however, instead we have Donald Trump as his far right gang...anti-science, anti-education, anti-free speech, anti-environment etc. Also, do you really think Trump is going to be "Free Market"? Really? He is already picking winners and losers, and he is not even President yet.

Again, we need centrist Republicans and Democrats working together, common sense solutions. That was one of the large reasons (besides avoiding the reality of Trump as President). I was thinking that maybe, just maybe we would get a Democrat for President and a Republican Congress, which would be a mandate from the people that the parties need to come together, but that is not what happened. However, who knows after 4 years of Trump Crazy we may get there.
Lots of ground to cover my friend. Not sure I am willing to put in a whole religious throw down in this week. I agree the bible has many parables. They are stories to relay to the masses. There are also many descriptions of events that they have to use imagery from the day to describe future and supernatural events. You can say the bible is not consistent, I say it is.

If you are going to start a religion, why would God pick two women to start the religion (basically the resurrection started the actual religion). Women did not have any standing in the world at the time and their words were not considered credible. If you were to make up a lie, why would you start with people who had not credibility in the society? They already had the men that Jesus had been leading.

On sacrificing his son and I forget who it was (Abraham?) that was willing to sacrifice his son for the Lord will not make sense to someone with their sites set on their earthly existence being the end all. It is strange to me too. I am not going to lie. I would tell you that if you know you are going to live an eternity, then a blink of an eye in the human condition really does not a matter (well unless you do not get saved). Lucky for you and I, God sent Jesus to be that sacrifice. We don't have to worry about it so I am not throwing anyone off a cliff or cutting them open. I'm telling you though. If you throw your kids off a tall structure and depending which religion you are subscribe, you can do wonders. If you are muslim, it will cure their gayness. If you are a environmentalist, I will keep the weather from changing. I wonder when it rains in California do the moonbats think they angered Al Gore?

I detect/hear your frustration with over the top Christians. I don't deal well with them either. I don't deal well with absolutists. All I can say is I have seen enough in my personnel life to make me believe. There are things that are happening that can only be biblical in nature. I will look at them with healthy skeptism, but understand the trend as laid out in the bible. We will see if it happens.

As far as why should be be concerned about abortion, trade and so on? Reasonable questions. Could be a few schools of though.

1) God instructs us to live life for we do not know the time or the day of his coming.
2) Maybe people like control of their surroundings
3) Being a Christian does not mean to turn a blind eye to evil around you. Just like Jesus in the Temple with the money changers or casting out demons from the possessed. He did not turn a blind eye to evil.
4) Maybe Christians understand what God has planned for the world if we as a race do not straighten our act up and many do not want that to happen. I know I struggle with that. I don't know what eternity looks like or feels like. For all my pains and struggles, I still like living life. This is the only life I and you know. Ever wonder why a woman stays with an abusive man? Sometimes the life you know is easier to deal with than a potential better life if you change. It is the fear of the unknown even if deep down you know it is better.

I guess I don't get where you are coming from that Christians are for burning down the earth and destroying it for all humanity. Talking the inability to digest different concepts and being an absolutist.
You claim the far right is: anti-science, anti-education, anti-free speech, anti-environment etc. That is stories people like to tell themselves to feel good. The Science says there has been way more CO2 than now. We are actually at a all time low. That is Science. Republicans are anti education? interesting. We are trying to get it so disadvantaged kids can get in better schools and we are anti indocrination in schools. How much of your education is worth something? How many of your core classes do you use and how much if fluff? Anti free speech? Is that why democrats are constantly shouting down conservative speakers at the college campuses? Beating people at Trump rallies? Anti envornment religion.... there fixed.


On typing answers, you have to realize that sometimes when we type, we think a lot of things and they come out perfect on the computer. Others read it and go what are you asking? Happens to me all the time. I do not mean to talk past you or not answer, sometimes people are talking details when there really is no detail but the topic really is a concept. Example: Healthcare. Great concept. Free to everyone is a great concept. How do you do it? That is a detail. Turns out there are no details that actually achieve it so what kind of detailed conversation can you have about something that can not be?
Old     (wakemitch)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-09-2016, 2:32 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
America first people.
What does America first people mean? Supporting Americans (the people who live here) or supporting American businesses?

Conservatives are often considered more patriotic/"American", but their policies tend to focus more on individuals rather than the entire population.

Liberals are often considered less patriotic, yet their policies tend to help more people.


So far what Trump has been doing is supporting elites and the managing class. Actual workers/laborers are not going to be helped.
This is a boat forum and most of us have money and identify as elite or the managing class compared to most americans, so it's easy to see why so many wakeworlders support Trump. I just dont get why so many people making under $50k/year support Trump. I mean the Secretary of Labor is against laborers
Old    deltahoosier            12-09-2016, 2:53 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakemitch View Post
What does America first people mean? Supporting Americans (the people who live here) or supporting American businesses?

Conservatives are often considered more patriotic/"American", but their policies tend to focus more on individuals rather than the entire population.

Liberals are often considered less patriotic, yet their policies tend to help more people.


So far what Trump has been doing is supporting elites and the managing class. Actual workers/laborers are not going to be helped.
This is a boat forum and most of us have money and identify as elite or the managing class compared to most americans, so it's easy to see why so many wakeworlders support Trump. I just dont get why so many people making under $50k/year support Trump. I mean the Secretary of Labor is against laborers
Boat forum does not mean everyone is doing that well. I sold my boat a long time ago.

I like your thought process on who's policies are for who then you conclude that why would someone under $50,000 a year vote republican. You don't see the irony? That is the classic democrat line. "Why wouldn't you vote for your own best interests?". I hear that exclusively from democrats and you pretty much said it in your last line. Of the two types of people you described does statement sound like people who are making policies that are helping more people?

At the end of the day, what policies can the government put in place that helps the $50,000 or less crowd? Only thing the government can do is tax you or more, regulate you less or more, social engineer you based on immigration policy or tax breaks/ increases for certain behaviors. Outlaws certain things (guns and God). So, of those things what has helped the working class in the nidwest in the last 8 years?

- Obamacare shifted a burden of insurance payments to the poor that they can not afford. Boo Democrats.
- NAFTA, Pan Pacific Trade, and Kyoto all treaties signed or proposed to move American wealth out of the country. Democrats for all of them. Boo Democrats.
- Constantly bashing their religion and trying to ban guns in one fashion or another and calling people who like those things names. Boo Democrats
- Won't stop illegal immigration. Now importing Muslims from parts of the world who those same Americans sent their kids to die to fight against and tell them they need to live with them. Totally different values and they know it. Boo Democrats again.
- All the big city liberals telling the people that are in fly over areas that they don't care what they think and that the city people know how to live with one another all while the city people murder each other by the thousands each year. Boo Democrats again and again.....

After a while when people keep telling you that you and your culture are no good, trying to send your jobs away and tax you more; I don't think they care what tax bracket they are in.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       12-09-2016, 5:10 PM Reply   
How many home runs can you hit, Delta? Geez I wish I had your free time...
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       12-10-2016, 3:56 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
Lots of ground to cover my friend. Not sure I am willing to put in a whole religious throw down in this week. I agree the bible has many parables. They are stories to relay to the masses. There are also many descriptions of events that they have to use imagery from the day to describe future and supernatural events. You can say the bible is not consistent, I say it is.

If you are going to start a religion, why would God pick two women to start the religion (basically the resurrection started the actual religion). Women did not have any standing in the world at the time and their words were not considered credible. If you were to make up a lie, why would you start with people who had not credibility in the society? They already had the men that Jesus had been leading.

On sacrificing his son and I forget who it was (Abraham?) that was willing to sacrifice his son for the Lord will not make sense to someone with their sites set on their earthly existence being the end all. It is strange to me too. I am not going to lie. I would tell you that if you know you are going to live an eternity, then a blink of an eye in the human condition really does not a matter (well unless you do not get saved). Lucky for you and I, God sent Jesus to be that sacrifice. We don't have to worry about it so I am not throwing anyone off a cliff or cutting them open. I'm telling you though. If you throw your kids off a tall structure and depending which religion you are subscribe, you can do wonders. If you are muslim, it will cure their gayness. If you are a environmentalist, I will keep the weather from changing. I wonder when it rains in California do the moonbats think they angered Al Gore?

I detect/hear your frustration with over the top Christians. I don't deal well with them either. I don't deal well with absolutists. All I can say is I have seen enough in my personnel life to make me believe. There are things that are happening that can only be biblical in nature. I will look at them with healthy skeptism, but understand the trend as laid out in the bible. We will see if it happens.

As far as why should be be concerned about abortion, trade and so on? Reasonable questions. Could be a few schools of though.

1) God instructs us to live life for we do not know the time or the day of his coming.
2) Maybe people like control of their surroundings
3) Being a Christian does not mean to turn a blind eye to evil around you. Just like Jesus in the Temple with the money changers or casting out demons from the possessed. He did not turn a blind eye to evil.
4) Maybe Christians understand what God has planned for the world if we as a race do not straighten our act up and many do not want that to happen. I know I struggle with that. I don't know what eternity looks like or feels like. For all my pains and struggles, I still like living life. This is the only life I and you know. Ever wonder why a woman stays with an abusive man? Sometimes the life you know is easier to deal with than a potential better life if you change. It is the fear of the unknown even if deep down you know it is better.

I guess I don't get where you are coming from that Christians are for burning down the earth and destroying it for all humanity. Talking the inability to digest different concepts and being an absolutist.
You claim the far right is: anti-science, anti-education, anti-free speech, anti-environment etc. That is stories people like to tell themselves to feel good. The Science says there has been way more CO2 than now. We are actually at a all time low. That is Science. Republicans are anti education? interesting. We are trying to get it so disadvantaged kids can get in better schools and we are anti indocrination in schools. How much of your education is worth something? How many of your core classes do you use and how much if fluff? Anti free speech? Is that why democrats are constantly shouting down conservative speakers at the college campuses? Beating people at Trump rallies? Anti envornment religion.... there fixed.


On typing answers, you have to realize that sometimes when we type, we think a lot of things and they come out perfect on the computer. Others read it and go what are you asking? Happens to me all the time. I do not mean to talk past you or not answer, sometimes people are talking details when there really is no detail but the topic really is a concept. Example: Healthcare. Great concept. Free to everyone is a great concept. How do you do it? That is a detail. Turns out there are no details that actually achieve it so what kind of detailed conversation can you have about something that can not be?
Just to add to your point about starting with two women, you rarely hear about how the disciples met their untimely deaths. All they had to do was deny Christ was who He said He was and they would have their earthly lives spared. They chose to proclaim the truth instead and were executed for it.

Now contrast that with say the Watergate scandal. Those perps were only threatened with some minimum security jail time and they sung like canaries. Point being its pretty uncommon to die for a lie.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-10-2016, 9:10 PM Reply   
Another homerun, you guys are on fire, ha ha.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       12-11-2016, 8:10 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
Dinosaur Era Had 5 Times Today's CO2
I've known for some time that conservatives want America to be more like China, but this is the first time I've seen them want us to be more like dinosaurs.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       12-11-2016, 8:15 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
Point being its pretty uncommon to die for a lie.
What planet are you from? People dying for a lie is in the news all the time. History is jammed pack with people dying for a lie.

That argument is a straw man. Nobody is claiming that the people dying for a lie believe they are dying for a lie. They believe they are dying for the truth.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-11-2016, 5:52 PM Reply   
So is it cool that the President elect is publicly undermining the CIA?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ion-ridiculous

My favorite highlight:
The split was reflective of a growing rift between the CIA and Trump, who has declined daily intelligence briefings. The president-elect, who receives intelligence briefings just once a week claimed on Sunday he could skip the briefings because: “I’m, like, a smart person.” “I don’t have to be told the same thing in the same words every single day,” he added.

Ho ho. "I'm, like a smart person". Too true, he is like a smart person, as in, he thinks he is smart, that's where the similarity ends tho.

Last edited by ralph; 12-11-2016 at 5:58 PM. Reason: Even more comedy added
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       12-12-2016, 12:03 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
So is it cool that the President elect is publicly undermining the CIA?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ion-ridiculous

My favorite highlight:
The split was reflective of a growing rift between the CIA and Trump, who has declined daily intelligence briefings. The president-elect, who receives intelligence briefings just once a week claimed on Sunday he could skip the briefings because: “I’m, like, a smart person.” “I don’t have to be told the same thing in the same words every single day,” he added.

Ho ho. "I'm, like a smart person". Too true, he is like a smart person, as in, he thinks he is smart, that's where the similarity ends tho.
The only thing worth remembering in that otherwise worthless hit piece is Jon Bolton's belief about how Obama has politicized intelligence. I can't wait for that crooked, unpatriotic embarrassment to be sent packing.
Old     (hco)      Join Date: Jun 2006       12-12-2016, 4:43 AM Reply   
My money's on mark being racist.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       12-12-2016, 8:04 AM Reply   
We all know the last place you want intelligence is in politics.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-12-2016, 8:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by hco View Post
My money's on mark being racist.
Nope, not possible. He loves orange folk. Take that logic.
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       12-12-2016, 9:02 AM Reply   
Senate Republicans John McCain and Lindsey Graham call for investigation of Russian involvement in determining the outcome of the election.

For you Trump supporters who may brush this off, I politely remind you that McCain was your candidate in 2008.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-n...211-story.html
Old     (meathead65)      Join Date: Sep 2006       12-12-2016, 10:10 AM Reply   
The media wants everyone to think Russia went in and changed votes on the machines or some such nefarious acts......in actuality it's possible they exposed a bunch of hacked democrat's emails that to this point no one has denied their authenticity......

No one needed Wikileaks to tell them the current political system is dishonest, distorted of any reality as it concerns the average folks. These self serving elitist scumbags all needed to get voted out of office. If Trump has even a modest sliver of success it's going to be the end of the Washington *** for a lot of these career criminals, on both sides of the aisle.
Old     (doublemwa)      Join Date: May 2016       12-12-2016, 10:57 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhorn View Post
Senate Republicans John McCain and Lindsey Graham call for investigation of Russian involvement in determining the outcome of the election.

For you Trump supporters who may brush this off, I politely remind you that McCain was your candidate in 2008.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-n...211-story.html
Not to mention even this piece of **** Mitch McConnell is calling for it:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/12/us...tion.html?_r=0

But Republicans voters will first blame the media, then Obama.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       12-12-2016, 1:31 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by hco View Post
My money's on mark being racist.
Then enjoy your poverty, moron.

In my particular specialty trade, minorities are beyond uber rare. I employ four people right now. Three are black and one is Mexican/American so suck on that. Oh, I also have a Mexican son-in law so take your liberal, race-baiting self along with your false accusations and go fly a kite.
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       12-12-2016, 2:49 PM Reply   
Side bar:

I think this has been a very interesting thread and I've found it useful to look at the other side of the argument (not that I agree with it).

HOWEVER, when you start calling people "racist", "libtard" and the rest of what we see here, you are just giving the other side an excuse to not listen to your argument and making things unnecessarily ugly.

Can we try to keep that kind of crap to a minimum and see about actually debating points?

As you were.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-12-2016, 4:15 PM Reply   
I had to Laugh. I saw a Tweet where Trump brought up the point that the DNC keep's pointing @ Russia as saying "they Hacked our elections". Trump said
"imagine if i had lost and I had said the Russians had hacked the Election people would be calling me conspiracy theorist"

I had to laugh because he is right!
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       12-12-2016, 5:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
I had to Laugh. I saw a Tweet where Trump brought up the point that the DNC keep's pointing @ Russia as saying "they Hacked our elections". Trump said
"imagine if i had lost and I had said the Russians had hacked the Election people would be calling me conspiracy theorist"

I had to laugh because he is right!
Except its not an individual nut job who is saying this its the CIA.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       12-12-2016, 10:02 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhorn View Post
Except its not an individual nut job who is saying this its the CIA.
Correction: obama's CIA.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       12-12-2016, 10:26 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhorn View Post
Side bar:

I think this has been a very interesting thread and I've found it useful to look at the other side of the argument (not that I agree with it).

HOWEVER, when you start calling people "racist", "libtard" and the rest of what we see here, you are just giving the other side an excuse to not listen to your argument and making things unnecessarily ugly.

Can we try to keep that kind of crap to a minimum and see about actually debating points?

As you were.
Agreed. Look, after having their butts handed to them in the elections, liberals have nowhere else to go. Nothing left to do other than to call names, falsely accuse conservatives of all sorts of things and play with Play-Doh in their safe places. It's like watching petulant children throw poo on the wall just to see what sticks.

The pendulum has swung.

Liberals: Americans don't want any more liberal "solutions" to their problems. been there, done that. It never works. There's about to be a new sheriff in town. Deal with it. You've been Trumped.
Old     (doublemwa)      Join Date: May 2016       12-13-2016, 5:10 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
Agreed. Look, after having their butts handed to them in the elections, liberals have nowhere else to go. Nothing left to do other than to call names, falsely accuse conservatives of all sorts of things and play with Play-Doh in their safe places. It's like watching petulant children throw poo on the wall just to see what sticks.

The pendulum has swung.

Liberals: Americans don't want any more liberal "solutions" to their problems. been there, done that. It never works. There's about to be a new sheriff in town. Deal with it. You've been Trumped.
Two questions:

1. Does loosing the popular vote by 2.6 Million votes count as "butts handed to them"

2. When you say Liberal solutions never works.... how do you explain economies such as California (alone is 10th in the world) and Colorado compared to Kentucky and Louisiana? You guys like the point at Obama, so how is it he left Illinois with a thriving economy that has been ruined by Bruce Rauner.

If you were not just factually wrong you would have a point.....
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       12-13-2016, 7:33 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublemwa View Post
Two questions:

1. Does loosing the popular vote by 2.6 Million votes count as "butts handed to them"

2. When you say Liberal solutions never works.... how do you explain economies such as California (alone is 10th in the world) and Colorado compared to Kentucky and Louisiana? You guys like the point at Obama, so how is it he left Illinois with a thriving economy that has been ruined by Bruce Rauner.

If you were not just factually wrong you would have a point.....
1. Ever heard of the electoral college?
2. California used to be 7th in the world so your slope just got slippery. I'd say Cali has a huge economy DESPITE the liberal monopoly. Our biggest industry is ag so that's just built in thanks to our climate, not because of any political genius. As for Illinois, how'd all that hope and change work out for the folks that live in Chicago?
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       12-13-2016, 7:41 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
Correction: obama's CIA.
"Obama's CIA" is run by John Brennan who has worked for the CIA for 25 years. Tin foil hat time!
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       12-13-2016, 7:45 AM Reply   
Trump supporters: Can you name a single Cabinet pick so far that you are happy about? Why? I honestly just want to understand.
Old     (doublemwa)      Join Date: May 2016       12-13-2016, 7:57 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
1. Ever heard of the electoral college?
2. California used to be 7th in the world so your slope just got slippery. I'd say Cali has a huge economy DESPITE the liberal monopoly. Our biggest industry is ag so that's just built in thanks to our climate, not because of any political genius. As for Illinois, how'd all that hope and change work out for the folks that live in Chicago?
1 - yes. Its the part of the political process that puts the US near the bottom of the democracy index but gives Conservatives a false sense of vindication:

http://www.npr.org/2016/12/11/505182...istory-differs

2 - It has a lot to with liberal policies, such as weed. AKA the devils lettuce. Not to mention, it may have slipped from 7th to 10th, but even in the top 20 its better than Alabama, LA, GA, and even TX....

Chicago, yes those conservative gun laws are really keeping the violence down. You realize crime spiked under a republican governor right..... Obama hasn't had the reigns of IL in 8 years....
Old    deltahoosier            12-13-2016, 9:50 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
How many home runs can you hit, Delta? Geez I wish I had your free time...
This stuff is already in the ol noggin. I type pretty fast so it does not take but a few minutes.
Old     (brettw)      Join Date: Jul 2007       12-13-2016, 10:29 AM Reply   
Two of the biggest narcissists that exist actually got together. I wonder if they ever got past telling each other how great each of them are.

https://www.yahoo.com/celebrity/what....html#comments
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       12-13-2016, 10:41 AM Reply   
http://www.newsweek.com/2016/12/23/d...us-531140.html
Old     (doublemwa)      Join Date: May 2016       12-13-2016, 10:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
So crazy......

But as long as people can't get abortions the right is happy.
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       12-13-2016, 11:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
Seriously, Trump supporters, how do you rationalize this?
Old     (magicr)      Join Date: May 2004       12-13-2016, 1:17 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhorn View Post
Seriously, Trump supporters, how do you rationalize this?
They can't, but they'll say at least she's not Clinton.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-13-2016, 2:07 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhorn View Post
Seriously, Trump supporters, how do you rationalize this?
Yes but Hillary is crooked, Therefore anything Trump does is beyond scrutiny.
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       12-13-2016, 2:56 PM Reply   
Trump just nominated Rex Tillerson for secretary of state, the top diplomat job. This guy is an Exxon CEO who got awarded the "order of friendship" from Putin.

Trump supporters: HOW IS THIS OK? Give me something!

We investigated Bengazi to death, but looking into Russians influencing the election is too much to ask!?!?!
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       12-13-2016, 2:59 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettw View Post
Two of the biggest narcissists that exist actually got together. I wonder if they ever got past telling each other how great each of them are.

https://www.yahoo.com/celebrity/what....html#comments
This is just another example of "wagging the dog" Trump always does something weird to distract the press when he has done something else that should be a super negative news story. (in this case more cabinet picks and canceling the press conference where he was to explain how his kids running his business is not a MAJOR conflict of interest.

Before that was complaining about Hamilton when he selected a guy who has sued the EPA dozens of times to run the EPA.
Old    deltahoosier            12-13-2016, 3:22 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhorn View Post
Trump just nominated Rex Tillerson for secretary of state, the top diplomat job. This guy is an Exxon CEO who got awarded the "order of friendship" from Putin.

Trump supporters: HOW IS THIS OK? Give me something!

We investigated Bengazi to death, but looking into Russians influencing the election is too much to ask!?!?!
Don't really care. Democrats are crooked to begin with. All foreign governments are trying to influence the elections. Democrats are just trying to seed that the election is not legitimate and it is working for their followers. you did not mind at all that the Clinton Foundation was taking millions form the Saudis and others for their pay to play scheme. The wiki links founder already said the Clinton email information was not from the Russians. Even if it was, she still lied about not having classified emails to begin with and they did not have say the things in their emails that they did. Those are all Hillary's fault.
Old    deltahoosier            12-13-2016, 3:25 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhorn View Post
This is just another example of "wagging the dog" Trump always does something weird to distract the press when he has done something else that should be a super negative news story. (in this case more cabinet picks and canceling the press conference where he was to explain how his kids running his business is not a MAJOR conflict of interest.

Before that was complaining about Hamilton when he selected a guy who has sued the EPA dozens of times to run the EPA.
You did not seem to care when Obama would sign off on some executive order limiting peoples rights when a different story was breaking. How about when the administration was caught running guns but Hillary and company already had the whistle blowing about assault rifles being used to kill people and we needed to regulate them. Turned out they were the ones supplying them and then stopped the whistling.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-13-2016, 3:26 PM Reply   
Ha ha, i totally called it
Old    deltahoosier            12-13-2016, 3:30 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
That is Newsweeks opinion. Don't really care. How did Bill and Hillary become multi-multi-millionaries while being pretty much flat broke in Arkansas? President and Senator do not pay that much. You guys don't seem to care.

The man has not even been sworn in and you are having a fit. I really don't care what you guys have to say on the matter. You are just following your dog handlers at this point.
Old    deltahoosier            12-13-2016, 3:32 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Ha ha, i totally called it
What is there to call. Show me a when you cared when Hillary or Obama were doing these things? You did not, so excuse me if I don't give a flying F**% about your faux outrage.
Old    deltahoosier            12-13-2016, 3:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhorn View Post
Trump just nominated Rex Tillerson for secretary of state, the top diplomat job. This guy is an Exxon CEO who got awarded the "order of friendship" from Putin.

Trump supporters: HOW IS THIS OK? Give me something!

We investigated Bengazi to death, but looking into Russians influencing the election is too much to ask!?!?!
Sounds like the guy has some international chops. Good for Trump to nominate someone who knows how to work with the international community.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-13-2016, 4:06 PM Reply   
Is Jill Stine gonna give back the 5 Million dollars she collected for the recall that never happend?
When Trump protested weeks back and said the recount was only going to be a money scam guess what he was right!

What's great is the cry baby's have all these excuses why the Beast lost. Now it's Russian hackers, umm how about this conspiracy "The DNC" nominated a person not many liked? I guess that pill is to hard to swallow so they keep comming up with more and more excuses. O well what can you expect from the party of Victums, yup as a lib nothing is Every your fault
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-13-2016, 4:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
What is there to call. Show me a when you cared when Hillary or Obama were doing these things? You did not, so excuse me if I don't give a flying F**% about your faux outrage.
I'm not outraged, I'm entertained.

Anyway my point was, newsflash: Hillary lost, can you evaluate what Trump does now on its own merits, you don't have to compare him to anyone else
Old     (doublemwa)      Join Date: May 2016       12-13-2016, 5:19 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
Don't really care. Democrats are crooked to begin with. All foreign governments are trying to influence the elections. Democrats are just trying to seed that the election is not legitimate and it is working for their followers. you did not mind at all that the Clinton Foundation was taking millions form the Saudis and others for their pay to play scheme. The wiki links founder already said the Clinton email information was not from the Russians. Even if it was, she still lied about not having classified emails to begin with and they did not have say the things in their emails that they did. Those are all Hillary's fault.

Once again, all you can can do is default back to Clinton. The question is about Trump. If you're genuinely interested in what the other side has to say, stop deflecting and put some thought into the questions.
Old     (doublemwa)      Join Date: May 2016       12-13-2016, 5:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
Sounds like the guy has some international chops. Good for Trump to nominate someone who knows how to work with the international community.
I had to read this one out loud....

wow...just wow. In one post you criticized Clinton for taking money from Saudis, then in the next you pat another on the back for being in bed with a country that is openly hostile to the US. At this point I just have to believe all you're doing is stirring the pot.

Does it even matter to anyone China's display of force over the weekend? Or did that not show up on Fox?

http://uproxx.com/news/china-warning...uclear-fly-by/
Old     (doublemwa)      Join Date: May 2016       12-13-2016, 5:29 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
That is Newsweeks opinion. Don't really care. How did Bill and Hillary become multi-multi-millionaries while being pretty much flat broke in Arkansas? President and Senator do not pay that much. You guys don't seem to care.

The man has not even been sworn in and you are having a fit. I really don't care what you guys have to say on the matter. You are just following your dog handlers at this point.
So Hillary is villain for taking money to give a speech at Goldman, then Trump hires two Goldman executives..... Do you see the irony?
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-13-2016, 5:59 PM Reply   
As far as Goldman Vs Hillary. You can't blame Goldman for "pay to play" tactics. But you can blame Hillary for taking the Huge sums of money in the form of a pay off for a speach $300 and $400 K for a speach! She did this with many company's.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-13-2016, 6:21 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
As far as Goldman Vs Hillary. You can't blame Goldman for "pay to play" tactics. But you can blame Hillary for taking the Huge sums of money in the form of a pay off for a speach $300 and $400 K for a speach! She did this with many company's.
Correct, you can blame her, she is a roach. When Trump does the same you can blame him too.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       12-13-2016, 7:01 PM Reply   
So, to sum up today's posts, we have a few liberals who need some Play-Doh and a safe place STAT!
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-13-2016, 7:21 PM Reply   
Surprisingly I don't vote liberal here, I vote conservative. I could do with some play-doh and a cuddle tho.
Old     (wiscxstar)      Join Date: Mar 2002       12-13-2016, 7:24 PM Reply   
Delta - those are not stories that people tell themselves about the far "right", it is pure observation. The same thing when people try to peddle the don't believe what the media says about Trump line... well we don't need to as you can see and hear what he does directly or even read his tweets.

I get it that you don't like liberal policies, and you are excited for a Republican government, but please don't let that blind you to what Trump is doing...we need to get past the party allegiance (same goes for the left)....Trump is a danger to this our democracy and everyone's freedom.

His appointments and his behavior are bizarre. He work ethic is lacking to say the least. He is already directly contradicting his campaign promises, and he is not even President yet. His big argument was that he will bring back US jobs (i.e. blue collar manufacturing). Even if he keeps or brings back manufacturing jobs it will be short lived. IF you own a large manufacturing plant you don't want people, you want robots..robots don't get sick, don't ask for raises, don't need benefits, don't get pregnant....just look at modern manufacturing already. International labor may be unfairly cheap, but if you force companies to stay in the US you will see the other alternative...robots. This is just another fine example of Trumps mastery of manipulation.`He has always been a master marketer. He has never been about actually delivering it is always about saying whatever he needs to get what he wants at that time. Its the art of the deal.

I would just ask you this, if it came out that Trump was either privy (during the election) to Russian hacking of the US Government (or involved), would you agree that he is unfit to be President?

If all was reversed, Hillary won and it turned out that she was involved in Russian hacking you would be outraged, and I would too. In fact, I would be in agreement that she should be in prison. We can't let our partisanship get in the way of our commitment to this democracy. No person, no party, is greater than the democracy that we all stand for.
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       12-13-2016, 7:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Ha ha, i totally called it
Yup
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       12-13-2016, 7:34 PM Reply   
I love the comments about crybaby liberals on this thread when so far the Trump has asked for a boycott of Saturday night live, a musical , and a cereal because they weren't nice to him... poor little handed trump...

Last edited by plhorn; 12-13-2016 at 7:37 PM. Reason: added more
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       12-13-2016, 7:38 PM Reply   
Cracks me up when you guys call liberals crybabies when Trump has called for a boycott of a musical, a breakfast cereal, and Saturday Night Live because they weren't nice to him. Poor little tiny handed Trump...

and he isn't even in office yet...

Last edited by plhorn; 12-13-2016 at 7:39 PM. Reason: added
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