Thanks but Please Leave!

I agree with Edward... if the original intent of the thread was to solve the problem and/or give AM/SC an opportunity to make good... then take the guy up on his offer and go see him.

If the intention of the thread was to simply bash a dealer and cost him sales... then dont go back.

I have bashed a few dealers on WW and they have never contacted me to make good... if they did... I would go see them.

Just my $0.02 CDN.

Cheers!

JSG,

People have announced professional wakeboarder appearances at several boat shows on this forum too. I don’t think many of you are running up to them to have your B**bs autographed, but you might be interested on getting a few pointers or maybe some suggestions on your next board and binding purchase.

Well my eyes do get big when I see a truck pulling a boat past me on the road, when I see boats at a dock, or when I go to a boat show, I really like boating and water sports. Originally Zack was looking at a 22SSV, what do they run out the door, $60K? What does an X30 cost anyway, about $70K to $80K? I’ve never been in the market for a vehicle with that kind of price tag, but if I were going to drop that much money and I if had the opportunity to talk to people key in delivering on my purchase, ya I think I’d spend the time to speak with them. I’d especially take the time to return the courtesy of accepting their invitation after I had made a public statement as Zack had done.

Add to that I’m an engineer, I’m interested in how things work, how things are put together, and how to make them better. Heck I’d like to hear about how the boat industry works from an insider, have you see the post “Malibu Rocks”, sounds like those guys had a good factory tour. Do you think those guys are googoo eyed too?

Some discussion with a successful businessman, a leader in an area that I spend a lot of expendable dollars could be fascinating, well at least interesting. Who do you think would be more interesting to speak with: a home maker or Martha Stewart, an Army private of a battle field general, a real-estate agent or Donald Trump? Not to pick on the lowly Army private or others that I listed, I just think that people that have bubbled to the top just might be interesting.

Teen music idols selling albums and posters at $5 to $15 dollars a pop, well IMO there’s no comparisons to buying a $50K to $80K boat. Now if I’m going to keep my significant investment in good shape my dealership relationship might be important too. That’s where I was headed.

My $0.02 USD.

OH ya, Zack contacted Rick first with the CC. IMO Zack should have followed through.

Damn Ed that was a mouthful...I second him..

I go with first impression if it doesnt feel right its probably not .

As a guy who's had to work many trade shows on the business side of the booths, that's surprising to read. I can assure you that my company would have fired me on the spot for making such a comment. Short of being spit at, or cursed....we have to be nice to everyone, which is hard to do when you're on your feet for 10 hours, on concrete floors. Zach has every right to vent. As far as our man Cliff goes....I'm with Umali there...bigtime lame! So it's not ok for anyone to talk smack about a jerk sales guy at a boat show, but ok for someone to talk smack to someone on here for talking smack??? Seems flakey.
Cool of SC to step up and address this for sure, but Zack calls his own shots.....not us. There's an old saying that goes something like, "It can take years to find a new customer, but only one second to lose one". This is a classic example.

DC

good post dc.

ed, i still don't see where zack messed up. if you're saying he messed up on missing out on an opportunity for a corporate head to kiss his ass, then ok, he missed out. frankly, and with all due respect, what can rick say to zack, besides anything and everything he wants to hear to make good?

now, before you guys rip on me for that comment, i'm not suggesting rick's a bad guy. i'm 100% sure that what you guys have said about him is 100% true. i'm simply saying from a business standpoint, at this point, he has to say what the customer wants to hear.

as for how into the sport i am, at one point, i moved from socal to norcal just to ride. but, taking the opportunity to meet a corporate head of a boat company does not constitute your dedication to the sport.

What's the point in specifically addressing a letter to someone, as if you want a situation remedied, if you're just going to ignore them when they respond to make it right?

I'm with Matt. Zach CCs Rick kind of calling him out to fix this. Then when he offered his help he didn't want it. So it was simply a rant and not looking for actual help!!!One thing I can say is that I have bought 7 boats over the years and looked at many many more. I've never had a sales guy tell me to leave and I would not hesiate to go back to almost any of the dealers I've been too. There is 2 I would never consider again: first a dealer in North Dakota I bought a new boat from and recieved very poor service from. The second is Atlanta Marine for selling the boat I had a deposit on. At the time Rick could not have come down and talked me into buying a boat from them. I would buy a SC boat from another dealer.

He didnt ask for a call he said he was done . No where in Zachs original post did he say he wanted anything to do with the dealer again .

The fact that he didn't want any resolution to start with and actually turned down an offer to sort out the situation... is what makes me doubt Zach's side of the story.

Not saying this IS what went down, but its a theory... I go to the boat show... I do something bad enough to piss the guy off to the point that he asks me to leave, I am mad because they didn't kiss my ass... I post on WW (without any real detail) just to get back at them and cost them sales.

IMO... the truth is in the middle and maybe leaning toward the dealer on this one.

JMO.

Man I would love to hear the specic salespersons side of this one. Would definitely show "where" in the gray area the truth really is. Thats why I said from the beginning something sure didnt sound right, soo im not the only one. But some people go right ahead and defend the "customers side" even though we are only hearing one side. If it was me I would have done major bashing and explained exactly what went down so there is NO miscommunication. Maybe its me but it seems ironic that even after Zach came back on here and defended his position people(not just Bob--oh how many posts do you have{taken way out of context}...)were skeptical of the circumstances?

(Message edited by bob on January 24, 2006)

Any reasonable person looks at all the facts and then decides. The problem is... there are ONLY 3 FACTS here:

1) Zack complained that something was broke
2) Rick Tinker wanted to fix it
3) Zack did not want it fixed

I dont think anything was broke to start with.

I miss Ryan, with the 05 X-Star!!!!

I think a fact or two may have been left out;
4) There is always competition.

This may have been a "too little to late" situation. The salesperson may have been the catalyst to send the consumer to the competition. Remember, he was at the boat show with hundreds of other boats to look at.

5)And this ultimately is the most important fact.... Zach is buying a boat with his money. Not the salesman's money or any other person's money. Everyone at a dealership should earn the business from sales, service, financing, parts, etc.

And the customer is always right!

If Rick didn't think customer service was a key consideration I highly doubt he would have chimed in on this thread.

(Message edited by biz on January 24, 2006)

I just view this whole thing as a guy sharing his experience with a particular dealer at a boat show. Does it all mean that you should never shop at Atlanta Marine or buy a Skier's Choice boat? No. That's just HIS view....doesn't affect me one way or the other. If I were in love with a Moomba LSV, and lived near that dealer, it would insult my intelligence for anyone to think I wouldn't give them a shot at my business because I read an internet post. You can't believe half the stuff you read in ANY discussion forums on the internet as it is, so why would that sway a business decision that spends a wad of your own money. There's 12 year olds that log on here and say they started riding 6 months ago and just landed a backside 9....big deal, I didn't see him do it, and he's not putting gas in my boat so screw 'em. Maybe he did....maybe he has 400 posts on here and his social security number on his profile....whatever. Does that make it legit? This is kinda like a TV here guys....if you don't like what you read, change the channel....don't blow a tranny and make yourself look like a kook!

DC

Joe, what do you buy when you buy a boat? There’s the boat right, what else? You’re buying into the company that builds the boat and the dealership that services and supports the boat. People make the boat companies and dealerships. We’re in pretty hard disagreement if you don’t buy in to these statements. Rick steps up and is ready to stand behind his boats, stand behind his company, and make things right. That’s a good sign of a responsive and healthily organization, and then Zack blows him off.

If Zack wanted to buy a quality boat with good assurance that his long term boating needs would be met then I think he would have done well to meet with Rick. I’m also confident that there are other quality options for Zack. So my main point is that Zack missed an opportunity to meet the people, see the people in action, and possibly see them work to make things right. What better opportunity could you have to make this kind of evaluation?

The other point was that Zack posted his issues in a public forum and directly contacted the man responsible for the overall operation of SC. Rick offered to meet with Zack and gave Zack a pretty wide range of times to meet with him. What Rick and Zack would discuss doesn’t matter to me. After posting his issues publicly I think that the decent thing for Zack to do would have been to accept the invitation or possibly arrange to speak via telephone. Unless Rick failed to meet Zack or made a terrible fopaux this thread would probably be stale and inactive by now.

If you were Rick what would you make of Zack’s original post? If it were I and I had met Zack I might have learned something that I needed to know, I might have a chance to help someone, and maybe have reason to put some heat on the dealership. If it were I and Zack blew me off then I’d probably write off Zack and have a less intense discussion with the dealership. So, in the latter case Zack’s ranting accomplishes nothing and is meaningless.

Did Zack mess up, IMO yes.
1) He messed up an opportunity to evaluate important qualities of a boat company that most of us will never have.
2) He messed up an opportunity to vent to someone with serious pull within SC, someone in a position to make reasonable change within the organization, so his rant produces nothing but noise.

Edward,

In your latest novella you have once again missed a key point.

Zack was apparently dissatisfied with the service he was getting from the dealer (<----key word!!).

How much "reasonable change within the organization" do you really expect a manufacturer to make at the dealer sales drone level? Enough to make someone trust the dealer enough? I don't think so.

While you see it as him missing a fantastic chance to cuddle with an industry exec and producing nothing but noise, other folks see it as a consumer avoiding a dealer after a bad experience, and warning other consumers about his experience with that dealer.

What's the harm in that?

justsomeguy I agree it doesnt matter who wanted to see him and straighten things out he never asked for that .On the flip side there is always two sides to every story . If you dont meet the top dogs when you buy your boat as soon as you walk in the door your probably not getting the best deal anyways ,always avoid the salesman and go to the top .

(Message edited by mitchj on January 24, 2006)

Ed,

As hard as I tried, I couldn't stay away from this post.

Here's another example of someone coming on here for no other reason than to bash a company. After Zach got a few people above to bite on his vent, he conveniently backed off when given a chance to find resolve. In the end he decided not to buy a boat this year? Was he so traumatized by his interaction with a sales person that he just couldn't bring himself to speak with Rick when he tried to help. I don't think so.

In my opinion, Zach never intended on purchasing a boat from them in the first place.

Zach,

WTF does {sign a 36 year airline pilot} mean???

Umali,

Can you please explain to us what value Zach's original rant had now. Did his post have any qualitative value whatsoever?

I may have been biased, and short sighted going in, but in the end I'd say may original perception of this guys character wasn't far off the mark.

An answer a little more enlightened than "lame" would be interesting this time.

(Message edited by SEATTLE on January 24, 2006)

My first point deals directly with the point you say that I’ve missed. If you think that manufactures don’t have influence with the dealership I think you’re mistaken. At the extreme manufacture can pull their line from the dealer, I bet that’s a huge loss of face and more to the dealer! Would SC pull their line over Zack’s one incident, I doubt it, but I bet they can apply other pressure too.

What harm, well possibly undeserved harm to the dealership, and salesman’s career. Also potential harm to Supra since Zack CCd the top SC executive. If Rick didn’t reply that could be taken as a sign of a non-responsive company, I think Rick had to reply.

Do you feel that you are more or less informed about this dealership? I bet you’d be more informed if Rick and Zack met and then Zack posted some follow up on this thread, end result noise. I think I now know something more about SC.

what, he's not allowed to vent? hell, you vented about posters in here. why can't he vent about his experience with a boat salesperson?

i believe my first "lame" comment to you was enlightening enough. here, in case you missed it.

---

quote:

lame....you talk s##t here, too, and a member of the other site as well.

http://forums.wakeboarder.com/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=5768

---

it's funny how you talk smack about the other site, but yet, you frequent the site as well. this was just from today.





there, interesting enough for you?

Ya, vent, but why not go to the top and vent, the perfect opportunity was presented.

Don't want to get into the cuddling and lame discussions.

i think he reached the top by venting in here.

i don't blame you re: the lame discussion. isn't it ironic though that he tells the guy to go to the other site to talk smack, yet, he does the most smack talking in this thread...to zach and me!

How many post per year do you think run along the line of “I’m thinking about buy boat A, B or C what should I do?” I don’t know how many people frequent this forum, but I think it’s enough to have an impact on some percentage of sales. I was searching for someplace like this when I bought my boat last year but I didn’t really find this site until after the fact, it would have been helpful.

So Joe’s right, Zach did reach the top, but once Zach got some attention he didn’t say anything, I still think that’s a loss.

I’m spending way too much time on line I can’t wait for spring to get here so I can board

---

quote:

How many post per year do you think run along the line of “I’m thinking about buy boat A, B or C what should I do?”

---

a lot!

---

quote:

I don’t know how many people frequent this forum, but I think it’s enough to have an impact on some percentage of sales.

---

a lot and yes.

---

quote:

I was searching for someplace like this when I bought my boat last year but I didn’t really find this site until after the fact, it would have been helpful.

---

yes, it would have been.

---

quote:

but once Zach got some attention he didn’t say anything, I still think that’s a loss.

---

it's not a loss if he scratched this particular dealer off his list. if anything, it's a plus, since no one will be telling him things he wants to hear, not things he needs to hear. seriously, getting to talk to an industry exec isn't that big of a deal. i mean, do you really think he could give you an unbiased opinion about his product?

Edward,If you think it's that big of a deal to talk to an exec.



Get a new name and start a thread like Zack.

There is so many nice boats these days that you only get 1 shot to make things right,after that it's just BLA,BLA,BLA...


IMHO

Joe, I’m going to wrap up my discussion on this thread with this post.

I value face to face, person to person contact (funny, saying this online). While online we can be a rude without much consequence. We would think more about what we say if we had to live next door to each other. Contacting Rick and then declining an invitation to have a dialog is kind of like making a prank phone call.

I talked to Rick at the boatshow for 30 min the next day after knucklehead posted. He was hanging out, he didn't give a crap. He was showing me the stadium seating and how to move the cushions around. Buy what you want, but if you want the owner to show you, take a look at Supra. He'll probably be at the Pleasanton boat show this weekend, I'll introduce you if you're skeered. I don't have a SC boat but the guy is always cool to me.

---

quote:

I value face to face, person to person contact (funny, saying this online).

---

most of us do, too.

---

quote:

While online we can be a rude without much consequence. We would think more about what we say if we had to live next door to each other.

---

true, but my experience w/ a industry exec was positive, even though i brought up "concerns" with their products. the guy didn't blow smoke up my ass or try to paint a prettier picture.

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quote:

Contacting Rick and then declining an invitation to have a dialog is kind of like making a prank phone call.

---

he didn't "contact" rick, per se. he simply vented about his bad experience. again, he was not obligated to accept the invitation, and frankly, if i had experienced the same thing, i probably would've done the same thing and bitched about it and went on my way. i in no way would feel obligated to meet w/ the exec, nor would i feel that i "missed out" on meeting with a ceo, vp of marketing, or whatever his/her title is.

let me add by saying i'm not rippin' on rick at all. he did the right thing and try to "fix" what went wrong. props to rick for steppin' up.

(Message edited by dakid on January 24, 2006)

---

quote:

There is so many nice boats these days that you only get 1 shot to make things right,after that it's just BLA,BLA,BLA...

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i couldn't agree more!

Thats what im sayin !!!!

Joe,

Are you sure you want to got this route? I may engage in conversation on the other side, but I rarely talk smack. I go over there when I get bored. I'm not ashamed of being there and don't feel that I lose any credibility participating.

Now if you want to bring up smack talking, maybe I should link your high brow conversation with a college girl on the ethics fights at sorority parties. Now that was some in depth conversation you had going there wasn't it?

I talk smack when I feel someone is doing something malicious or wrong. You talk smack mearly to bait people into an argument. It's your M/O and always has been.

what route? the "you're better than me" route? nice. i guess when the going gets tough...

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quote:

I talk smack when I feel someone is doing something malicious or wrong. You talk smack mearly to bait people into an argument. It's your M/O and always has been.

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you're no different there, pal.

(Message edited by dakid on January 25, 2006)

Better - Yep

Different - certainly. I've never been kicked off this site for being an ass.

I brought up the other site again because you just can't seem to let my opinion of it go. You were wrong here and you'll throw out any personal attack you can to derail the original purpose of this post before you'd admit it.

---

quote:

I've never been kicked off this site for being an ass.

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neither have i. nice try though.

---

quote:

You were wrong here and you'll throw out any personal attack you can to derail the original purpose of this post before you'd admit it.

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i was wrong? about what?

personal attack? you better read above...i believe it was your post that had the personal attack.

if you call "me saying that you're a member of a site that you put down" a personal attack, then i apologize for that. i didn't realize you'd get hurt about that.

bottom line is, you called this guy out, i called you out for callin' him out, you got pissed. i'm sure that's one of the reactions you expected, that not everyone will agree with you.

I'm not angry with you, nor am I pissed at the direction you decided to go in here . I've been laughing my butt off during this entire debate.

I could continue to lob the BS ball back and forth with you but I have to go over and check out The Springer Show on the other site.

oh, i'm not mad either!

Joe Mitchell,

Off-topic and small world stuff but have fun with the house in Blue Ridge Oaks and let me know if my old man gets out of line.

Glenn's son

(Message edited by justsomeguy on January 25, 2006)

Don't mind me...I'm just racking up some posts.
coo coo cachoo. SHUT UP!!!

Justsomeguy I was wondering how Glenn new about this site .It is a small world. We will keep him in line .

EWATER,you make it sound like you've been registered forever and now you are trying to catch up.....easy there bud!With those kind of posts,you'll be creditable in no time.

And I thought I would see the last of this topic last night. It just continues to live on and it has been very entertaining !

Wait wait! I am seeing a vision....can't quite make it out...really fuzzy image. It's a, it's a... horse. And, he's so big and pretty....lot's of great color and markings...beautiful. OH but wait!!! Why is he lying down??? Is he sleeping? OH MY GOD! the poor horse is dead! And wait...what the heck...there's all these crazy people standing around it...and AWWW no, they're beating it! Shocking....just shocking!

and foxrepdc is leading the beating, since the horse died at 12:38pm!










jk man!

I hate horses! They have long faces, stare at the ground too much, leave sh*t bombs everywhere and kick you when your not looking

Can I kick it one last time... please?

KV

OK..everyone get one last kick in before PETA gets a look at this!

Hey everyone,

Can anyone here help with a problem???

I've had this strange lump on the tip of my...

Ooops, uhhhh nevermind thought I was still on Strange Ailments.Com.

Cliff, that was just weird

Were talkin about beating dead horses here... try and stay on topic

KV

I'm sure Rick's a great guy, but who gives a sh** if the "owner" of the company is at the boat show and shows you a boat? The boat is what you're buying, and being a star f'er who thinks a boat is better because a psuedo celebrity showed you how to move seats around is a little strange......

Thats it muffintop... kick that horse

I think I saw a horse show like this in Mexico one time...

I think Rodney King was riding that horse.