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Old     (VinnyA)      Join Date: Aug 2011       04-08-2015, 2:22 PM Reply   
Check it. http://www.wakeworld.com/news/videos...faretti-3.html

Last edited by wakeworld; 04-20-2015 at 1:00 PM.
Old     (chillinoj)      Join Date: May 2009       04-08-2015, 4:10 PM Reply   
Wow that is really impressive. I love watching him ride, glad to see he got a big sponsorship
Old     (VinnyA)      Join Date: Aug 2011       04-09-2015, 7:32 AM Reply   
HQ

Old     (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Minnesnowda       04-09-2015, 9:55 AM Reply   
When I saw that on his instagram account I think I peed a little bit. I LOVE truly unique wakeboard tricks. That is the perfect example of something that is only possible on a wakeboard.
Old     (scuba_steve)      Join Date: Oct 2013       04-09-2015, 11:47 AM Reply   
Sick trick, love the rewind and rope tension stuff going down.

My only questions, why call it "The Zero" ? I understand the reason behind it.. 360 spin one way minus the 360 revert = zero spin.. but with that mindset when someone takes this to a 540 that would also be a "Zero" or even a 180.. why have a "name" for it when it is already a frontside 360 rewind. its an easy name, tells you what the trick is even if you dont know a thing about wakeboarding.
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       04-09-2015, 11:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by scuba_steve View Post
Sick trick, love the rewind and rope tension stuff going down.

My only questions, why call it "The Zero" ? I understand the reason behind it.. 360 spin one way minus the 360 revert = zero spin.. but with that mindset when someone takes this to a 540 that would also be a "Zero" or even a 180.. why have a "name" for it when it is already a frontside 360 rewind. its an easy name, tells you what the trick is even if you dont know a thing about wakeboarding.
The name will just morph

Zero = 360 - rewind 360
Zero 5 = 540 - rewind 540
Old     (scuba_steve)      Join Date: Oct 2013       04-09-2015, 12:52 PM Reply   
But why bother with the Zero name to begin with? Why not just call it a 360 rewind? Just confuses new people coming into the sport same with all the other names (pete rose, moby dick, whirly bird...) why not just keep it simple?
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       04-09-2015, 1:04 PM Reply   
because 360 rewind doesn't sound as cool?

Last edited by boardjnky4; 04-09-2015 at 1:10 PM.
Old     (joshugan)      Join Date: Apr 2005       04-09-2015, 1:07 PM Reply   
scuba_steve, Reason # 1, because he landed the trick and he gets to name it. (There doesn't need to be another reason but there are other good reasons if you want them):

Reason #2: because calling it the Zero is way cooler.

Reason #3: (going along with #2) It is much better for marketing purposes. I get the hatred of names like Moby Dick and Tantrum, etc. But the zero describes this trick perfectly. Snowboarders cannot do a Zero. Skateboarders cannot do a Zero. Surfers cannot do a Zero. Wakeboarders can.

On a different but related subject, I think the hatred of raley based tricks by certain pros and insiders in the late 90s to early 2000s was such a stupid move. Raley based tricks were unique in a way that none of the other board sports had. Rewinds are in the same category. Hopefully rewinds/zeros can bring good attention to the sport that will in turn support more pro riders, more innovation of wake technology, etc.
Old     (Redheadd)      Join Date: Apr 2014       04-09-2015, 1:09 PM Reply   
I call it the ****y twister!
Old     (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       04-09-2015, 2:11 PM Reply   
Ha, tricks have marketing value? And someone saying they can do a zero is supposed to sound better than 360 to rewind 360, or 3 to rewind 3? What about 3 to rewind back 180, or revert, or a 3 rewind to revert? What about the rewinds and back to reverts that have been done on kickers? This is awesome, amazing and I'm not arguing he can't name it whatever he wants, but your logic on it being zero doesn't make sense unless you're talking calories.
Old     (VinnyA)      Join Date: Aug 2011       04-09-2015, 2:48 PM Reply   
I dig the crazy names.
There's a history in each one of them.
The raley? Chet Raley was in the boat when Darin Shapiro did it
The Pete rose? Byerly looked like pete rose sliding into home base when he kept catching his toes on the landing

That language, is part of our culture as wakeboarders.
When someone talks about a Zero. If you care enough to put in the effort you're going to know what it means and is therefore a language specific to us.
Embrace it, encourage it and educate others.
It doesn't have to be like "insiders only" but I think changing names to make wakeboarding seem friendlier to the masses is dumb.

And when we use a trick name that comes from another sport, like a method. We're paying homage to our history coming from Skateboarding.
You can tell if you check Kiteboarding forums who cares by whether or not they know the proper trick name lol.
Old     (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       04-09-2015, 3:02 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyA View Post
I dig the crazy names.
There's a history in each one of them.
The raley? Chet Raley was in the boat when Darin Shapiro did it
The Pete rose? Byerly looked like pete rose sliding into home base when he kept catching his toes on the landing

That language, is part of our culture as wakeboarders.
When someone talks about a Zero. If you care enough to put in the effort you're going to know what it means and is therefore a language specific to us.
Embrace it, encourage it and educate others.
It doesn't have to be like "insiders only" but I think changing names to make wakeboarding seem friendlier to the masses is dumb.

And when we use a trick name that comes from another sport, like a method. We're paying homage to our history coming from Skateboarding.
You can tell if you check Kiteboarding forums who cares by whether or not they know the proper trick name lol.
I'm all in for the uniqueness of names, and agree it should remain part of the sport, but Zero does not make sense, as scuba said, why not call a toe back 180 rewind back 180, that's a zero too, and has been done for years.
Old     (joshugan)      Join Date: Apr 2005       04-09-2015, 4:09 PM Reply   
You guys are hilarious.

A dum dum makes sense? Tantrum? Elephant? Scarecrow? Slurpy? Diesel? Bee Sting? 90210? Big Wurm? But Zero does not make sense?!?

So if he named it a Chinpokomon, that would make it a unique name that should be part of the sport?

If he name it a Zero after the WWII Japanese fighter airplane would that make it a unique name that should be a part of the sport?

Last edited by joshugan; 04-09-2015 at 4:15 PM.
Old     (kevSML)      Join Date: Jun 2014       04-09-2015, 4:24 PM Reply   
The name of this trick shouldn't be a big deal. Many people do this kind of thing. It happened recently in snowboarding when Ipod did the YOLO flip. He's the first, and maybe only person to land it, so he can call it whatever he wants. Same thing applies here
Old     (joshugan)      Join Date: Apr 2005       04-09-2015, 4:36 PM Reply   
Exactly.
Old     (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       04-09-2015, 5:45 PM Reply   
No one is saying he can't name it whatever he wants, even zero, its the suggestion that it should be called zero that is being discussed.
Old     (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       04-09-2015, 6:44 PM Reply   
He should try and make one more rotation and land blind. Call it the minus one.
Old     (joshugan)      Join Date: Apr 2005       04-09-2015, 6:52 PM Reply   
Massi did an awesome trick and can name it whatever he wants. I think adding up a 360 and then subtracting a 360 to get to zero makes the name that much cooler. I still haven't heard a reason why the name doesn't make sense besides the fact that some of you think its names should be its basic description. (Which then goes into the argument of whether we should get rid of all of the unique names).

I also think that if the trick gets any attention from non-wakeboard related news agencies, that the name will help sell it and bring better attention to the sport. I never said the trick has marketing "value". No-one said the trick "should" be named zero. But if you keep putting up straw-men then you can keep feeling like you're winning the internet.
Old     (VinnyA)      Join Date: Aug 2011       04-09-2015, 8:31 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tn_rider View Post
He should try and make one more rotation and land blind. Call it the minus one.
he had basically no line tension for the entirety of that back 3. I can't even imagine how hard he'd have to make that initial pull after the frontside spin to make it a back 5.
Old     (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Minnesnowda       04-10-2015, 7:29 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshugan View Post
You guys are hilarious.

A dum dum makes sense? Tantrum? Elephant? Scarecrow? Slurpy? Diesel? Bee Sting? 90210? Big Wurm? But Zero does not make sense?!?

So if he named it a Chinpokomon, that would make it a unique name that should be part of the sport?

If he name it a Zero after the WWII Japanese fighter airplane would that make it a unique name that should be a part of the sport?
This is exactly what I love about this sport and exactly what makes other sport rip on wakeboarding. Skeeeeezer anyone. But I do find it funny when my hardcore snowboard homies make fun of the trick names. I am always quick to point out that snowboard trick names are equally as lame, just more openly accepted because more people snowboard. I.E., Rodeo, Misty, 90 Roll, Gay Twist (yes that is a snowboard move google it), nose butter, etc. But we sure do have the lock down on the most lame names the sport. Enter the Million Dollar Baby.
Old     (biggator)      Join Date: Jul 2010       04-10-2015, 7:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_nintzel View Post
This is exactly what I love about this sport and exactly what makes other sport rip on wakeboarding. Skeeeeezer anyone. But I do find it funny when my hardcore snowboard homies make fun of the trick names. I am always quick to point out that snowboard trick names are equally as lame, just more openly accepted because more people snowboard. I.E., Rodeo, Misty, 90 Roll, Gay Twist (yes that is a snowboard move google it), nose butter, etc. But we sure do have the lock down on the most lame names the sport. Enter the Million Dollar Baby.
I think 'whirly dick' is worse than Million Dollar Baby..
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       04-10-2015, 7:55 AM Reply   
It's a niche sport. It will ALWAYS be a niche sport. The goofy names are awesome, let them be.
Old     (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       04-10-2015, 12:54 PM Reply   
I always thought a "Whirly Dick" was a pretty bad name too so I decided to google it and this old thread came up. There are some really bad names in wakeboarding tricks, just check some of them out.

http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94597

According to this thread Phil invented the Whirly Dick.
Old     (Redheadd)      Join Date: Apr 2014       04-10-2015, 1:04 PM Reply   
Did someone say dick?
Old     (VinnyA)      Join Date: Aug 2011       04-11-2015, 7:32 AM Reply   
Phil did invent the whirly dick and when he did people got it confused with the whirly 7 Parks used to do.

Also, I was under the impression the million dollar baby was actually called the wrecking ball? Idk who did it first, dave briscoe/bob soven
+can someone explain what the difference is between this trick and the iron cross Darin used to do?
Old     (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       04-11-2015, 9:49 AM Reply   
Thanks for posting that up on youtube. That trick is sick. I had to watch it a half dozen times to take it in.
I for one could give a crap less about what a trick is called, but think the name zero is cool.
I think to describe the different rotations it should progress like Zero 1 (180), Zero 3 (360) Zero 5 (540), but all of them being a class of Zero tricks.
Old     (tripsw)      Join Date: May 2006       04-11-2015, 12:39 PM Reply   
Sick trick, and agreed on the Raley-remark that Josh B made. Gotta love Shaun and Darin for not giving a fook about what the wake-police thinks is cool
Old     (cheesydog)      Join Date: Mar 2009       04-16-2015, 10:26 PM Reply   
Very impressive so nice to see this trick behind boat!

Im not starting any wars here but this has been done at cable already so..

Its a new trick behind boat but not off kickers. Im not debating the difficulty factor, just saying its been done.

As far as names, I dont get why peeps get their panties in a bunch over it. Wakeboarding has goofy names, part of the fun is learning them all.

I will say this though, Outside of the classic names pete, moby etc I dont really find the new names to gain any real traction any more. Massi can call this the Zero but Im fairly sure to everyone else will refer to it as a rewind.
Old     (VinnyA)      Join Date: Aug 2011       04-18-2015, 7:12 AM Reply   
Mark can you post a link?
Old     (VinnyA)      Join Date: Aug 2011       04-19-2015, 8:06 AM Reply   
We all saw DGrant's rewinds at the RBWO
but you have to remember that the FS3 had to have been done off-axis for someone else to claim they've done this first.
Old     (dukeno1)      Join Date: May 2006       04-19-2015, 10:42 AM Reply   
Hey I do this trick all the time! I just erase the 360 by leaving it out! I call it " heelside Wake 2 Wake! "
Old     (biggator)      Join Date: Jul 2010       04-20-2015, 6:24 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyA View Post
We all saw DGrant's rewinds at the RBWO
but you have to remember that the FS3 had to have been done off-axis for someone else to claim they've done this first.
Not sure you can count cable and boat the same way.. lots of cable tricks that aren't done behind boats. Hell, in the old days of the cable (pre sliders/kickers) I remember guys doing air s-bend 720s..
Old     (VinnyA)      Join Date: Aug 2011       04-20-2015, 12:39 PM Reply   
I think we have to count boat and cable the same way. Sure one is particularly harder than that doesn't change the fact that the motions and tricks done are the same.
If they weren't, we'd be hard pressed to call them the same sport right?
(By my definition you can see that I think that Kiteboarding should also be included in our umbrella lol)
Old     (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-20-2015, 1:53 PM Reply   
Robby Struharik was doing these years and years ago - was not grabbed form what I recall, but i watched him do it on my boat several times. It was rewind/blender or whatever you called it back than - but it just used to do it cause it felt cool to him. It was on axis though so maybe different. Doesn't Derek Cook do this wrapped?
Old     (biggator)      Join Date: Jul 2010       04-21-2015, 6:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyA View Post
.
If they weren't, we'd be hard pressed to call them the same sport right?
There's a lot of people who think they aren't.. I mean - there's no wake, right?
Old     (VinnyA)      Join Date: Aug 2011       04-21-2015, 11:49 PM Reply   
Yeah...I'm definitely not one of those people. lol

To me that analogy is like saying street skating and vert skating aren't both Skateboarding.
Not to bring an academic approach to it but maybe we should look at content instead of medium?
The tricks that are performed behind a boat/ under a cable/ through a winch/ with a kite are all the same. These sports all share the aspect of a handle/line tension and that makes the way tricks are done similar on level that the mode of pull can't really erase.

Here's someone who feels the same.

from Cabrinha Kites on Vimeo.



Also, WW, thanks for cleaning up the beginning of this thread.
kinda spooky to think you can edit my posts though O.o
lol
Old     (VinnyA)      Join Date: Aug 2011       04-22-2015, 9:09 PM Reply   
http://thewakeboardsite.com/headlines/massi323.html
Mark you called it.

I've also been corrected that the Zero doesn't require the first three to be off axis...so it was landed under a cable first.

Last edited by VinnyA; 04-22-2015 at 9:14 PM. Reason: Add stuff
Old     (razorjaw)      Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Australia       04-23-2015, 6:27 PM Reply   
I thought I'd seen a rider on wakeworld land a HS FS3 to BS 3 behind a boat many years ago (pre social networking I think!), No big deal was made about it, but it was one of the regular posters at the time. I'm going to have to troll through some posts to see if I can find it.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       04-24-2015, 11:05 AM Reply   
I think it was a heel front 3 to bs 180.
Old     (razorjaw)      Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Australia       04-27-2015, 4:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
I think it was a heel front 3 to bs 180.
Yep, you're right!

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