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Old     (Francois)      Join Date: Aug 2012       09-27-2015, 9:05 PM Reply   
I am the original owner of a Malibu I-Ride 2005 with 235Hrs on it and had the unfortunate experience of having the Damper plate (or Flex plate) disintegrate and punching a hole in the Bell Housing and chewing-up the starter. It cost me over $2000 to have it fix (need to pull the motor out ...). My repair shop contacted Indmar to see if they would take some responsibility for this known issue (if you do a quick search on this, you will see that is affect Indmar's engine on boat 2004/2005 (Malibu, Martercraft, ...) and that many were fixed under warranty (during the warranty period). Once the warranty period is over, touch luck. The answer from Indmar was that is is out of warranty but make sure to put a heavy duty Damper plate for the repair. Even if the warranty is over, since this Damper Plate was not design/spec properly for the start by Indmar, it would have been nice to see Indmar stand behind there product and take some level of responsibility. this issue seems to happened on boat with 200-300 hrs on it but I have seen post of boat with less than 100 hrs.I guess I will take a hard look on the engine manufacturer for my next boat.

This post is more as a FYI

Regards

Francois
Old     (Froggy)      Join Date: Nov 2013       09-28-2015, 4:57 AM Reply   
This is why I don't buy boats with Indmar drives. They have a lot of design issues. I heard they Malibu is going with PCM that will be a good thing for Malibu if its true?
Old     (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       09-28-2015, 6:41 AM Reply   
Can't believe you think after 10 years that indmar should help foot the bill. Also cant believe that after 10years you only have 235 hours on the boat. You know what they say 24 hours of tubing each year is hard on the drive train.
Old     (patrick232)      Join Date: Aug 2008       09-28-2015, 7:06 AM Reply   
I could see them covering the cost of the redesigned part. But not the labor or other parts. This is what GM did for us on a truck with 130K miles on it, as the part was on a TSB but not recall.
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-28-2015, 7:56 AM Reply   
List out all of the other things that are 10 years old that broke where the Mfr DID step up and help pay for the repairs...even if it's a known issue.
Old     (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       09-28-2015, 8:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyb View Post
List out all of the other things that are 10 years old that broke where the Mfr DID step up and help pay for the repairs...even if it's a known issue.
Any automotive recall. No time limit. The problem here is many boat problems fly under the radar, and don't have a recall mechanism like the automotive industry.

Indmar does have known issues that I would think they would cover because of faulty design, but they don't. Fuel pumps on the mcx are another example. I for one am happy the OP started this.

As an aside, what the f has happened to this site? It seems like every post is met with a challenge or put downs. Are boat owners/wakeboarders really this cynical?
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-28-2015, 9:27 AM Reply   
I would say that the majority of automotive recalls that have no time limit are for items pertaining to safety where said defect could cause harm or death. I would have no problem going back on the mfr for a real safety issue. I don't feel like this one meets that criteria.
Old     (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: SF Bay Area       09-28-2015, 9:31 AM Reply   
"Indmar does have known issues that I would think they would cover because of faulty design, but they don't. Fuel pumps on the mcx are another example. I for one am happy the OP started this. "

Tell me about it.
Old     (83Starsnstripes)      Join Date: Jul 2013       09-28-2015, 10:22 AM Reply   
It's a bummer that your drive plate failed but can we please stop comparing the boat industry to the car industry. Indmar's pockets are not even close to as deep as GMs, Fords, or any other car manufacturer.
Also, not sure if this is the case but every drive plate I've seen this happen to was because of a ton of weight being put into a boat that isn't rated for it.
At some point companies need to draw a line with warranty.
Old     (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       09-28-2015, 10:41 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 83Starsnstripes View Post
It's a bummer that your drive plate failed but can we please stop comparing the boat industry to the car industry. Indmar's pockets are not even close to as deep as GMs, Fords, or any other car manufacturer.
Also, not sure if this is the case but every drive plate I've seen this happen to was because of a ton of weight being put into a boat that isn't rated for it.
At some point companies need to draw a line with warranty.
So because Indmar's pockets aren't as deep, their liability decreases? Just trying to verify that's the logic you are going with here.

I would say do a bit more research if you think Indmar's flex plate issues are due to over-weighing a boat. Although based on the logic displayed on this site lately, I'm sure the fuel pump that went out on my '11 x1 with less than 100 hours on it was because of something that I did; not an indmar issue. Oh wait, I just opened myself up to an unrelated tubing dig by the cynics....damn....
Old     (Jmaxymek)      Join Date: Feb 2012       09-28-2015, 11:01 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattieK27 View Post
So because Indmar's pockets aren't as deep, their liability decreases? Just trying to verify that's the logic you are going with here.
I think what he meant is that Indmar's capacity to go above and beyond their warranty on a ten year old part is not as great as a car manufacturer.
Old     (tre)      Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: WI       09-28-2015, 11:08 AM Reply   
I don't normally chime in on these posts but I will on this one. The manufacturer has a specifically stated warranty policy. As buyers, we all know the terms of the warranty when we purchase an item. If Indmar, or any other company, starts making exceptions to the warranty as stated, soon everyone will expect the manufacturer to cover anything and everything regardless of hours, age, or warranty. This is a very slippery slope. Any manufacturer must draw a line somewhere. Adhering to warranty language is certainly reasonable and expected. Employees and companies need some sort of process to follow. Imagine the trouble a customer service department would have dealing with issues if there were no clearly spelled out warranty and everything was a gray area? Manufacturers have defined warranty parameters in order to figure out how much to charge for a product in addition to its use as a guideline for dealers and customer service employees. I can't imagine how much an engine with an endless warranty would cost. Warranties are put in place for a reason. One cannot reasonably assume anything which is 10 years old and well past the warranty period should be covered by the manufacturer.

On the other hand, if any company has a recurrence of reliability problems (and I'm not saying Indmar does), they should expect buyers to avoid the product in the future. Personally, I've had multiple boats with Indmar engines since 1999 and never had an issue. My current boat is a 2009 which I've owned since 2009 and I fully realize any motor problem which could arise is my responsibility at this point. Many people frequently buy new boats and cars simply because they feel more comfortable owning a product with a warranty. Owning any product without a warranty is a calculated risk. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-28-2015, 11:42 AM Reply   
Well said, Tre!
Old     (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       09-28-2015, 11:57 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tre View Post
I don't normally chime in on these posts but I will on this one. The manufacturer has a specifically stated warranty policy. As buyers, we all know the terms of the warranty when we purchase an item. If Indmar, or any other company, starts making exceptions to the warranty as stated, soon everyone will expect the manufacturer to cover anything and everything regardless of hours, age, or warranty. This is a very slippery slope. Any manufacturer must draw a line somewhere. Adhering to warranty language is certainly reasonable and expected. Employees and companies need some sort of process to follow. Imagine the trouble a customer service department would have dealing with issues if there were no clearly spelled out warranty and everything was a gray area? Manufacturers have defined warranty parameters in order to figure out how much to charge for a product in addition to its use as a guideline for dealers and customer service employees. I can't imagine how much an engine with an endless warranty would cost. Warranties are put in place for a reason. One cannot reasonably assume anything which is 10 years old and well past the warranty period should be covered by the manufacturer.

On the other hand, if any company has a recurrence of reliability problems (and I'm not saying Indmar does), they should expect buyers to avoid the product in the future. Personally, I've had multiple boats with Indmar engines since 1999 and never had an issue. My current boat is a 2009 which I've owned since 2009 and I fully realize any motor problem which could arise is my responsibility at this point. Many people frequently buy new boats and cars simply because they feel more comfortable owning a product with a warranty. Owning any product without a warranty is a calculated risk. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
Great points, and well said. Expectations for Indmar to do warranty claims outside of their warranty period isn't feasible, but if an engineering or manufacturing flaw is exposed from common failures, a proper recall mechanism would be helpful for owners who are footing the bill.

I have a 5 year warranty on my Indmar, but that didn't cover the fuel pump. The pumps are a known issue, and people who had them fail in year one got a replacement; unfortunately mine took a bit longer. So it's a known issue, a poor design, but the manufacturer gets out of it in my situation because it didn't fail as quickly?

I don't have the answer, and admittedly what is done in the automotive industry isn't completely applicable for boats. But I do think this is part of a bigger issue. The boating industry for too long has operated on the "oh its a boat, it happens" mentality. Manufacturers (and suppliers) have conditioned the buyers to have lessened expectations of quality, or reasonable expectations the manufacturer will help to fix the issues. I have toured Mastercraft and Nautique's facilities, and was impressed by the apparent build quality demonstrated. But when I had to file a warranty claim on my X1 for white bubbles in the black gel coat (a common issue at the time), my dealer and I dealer had to fight to get them to pay for the fix. These boats are getting too expensive to be as accepting of the "its a boat, it happens" mantra.

That's why I liked the original purpose of this thread. A place to report issues with Indmar flex plate failures. (any maybe other Indmar issues) It might be useful fodder for someone in the future when dealing with Indmar. The original poster didn't come across as whining, he even stated it was just an FYI. Why that resulted in dismissing his issue because of unrealistic expectations, blaming the owner, or trying to make a tubing joke, is beyond me...

Last edited by MattieK27; 09-28-2015 at 12:04 PM.
Old     (Ewok01)      Join Date: Apr 2013       09-28-2015, 3:19 PM Reply   
Because the title of the tread is "Indmar not stepping in: damper plate".

My first thought when I read the title was that an engine in the warranty period, or just out of the warranty period, had a problem and the company is not helping the guy out. Then I read that it's an 11 year old engine, and then I got the popcorn.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       09-28-2015, 6:56 PM Reply   
So I see both sides.

As the consumer I see it like this. If a warranty/recall happened and somehow your boat didn't get that taken care of in the time frame why is that the out. If it's a known issue and there is enough that the company issued a warranty why does it need a time frame. The part should always be covered if recalls were issued. That's just me as a consumer. If its deemed faulty and there is a better reqcement/upgrade that replacement/upgrade part should be covered no matter when the thing goes. A recall/fix is different then your normal warranty period. It's a known problem with enough issues to generate concern. It shouldn't matter what year the boat or how much the use is on a recalled item. If the recall/service part was never upgraded it should still fall under that.

Case in point for me.
08 Nautique 210 purchased with 150 hrs.
-Recall on the Zero Off due to surging issues and inconsistent speed. My boat was never updated with the new attena and software. Cost to me $600 to have this recall done because I was out of date.
-recall on the observer seat. Original one piece design was recalled due to the seam sitting from stress and poor design . They went to a two piece seat and replaced boats that came in with a new 2 pice seat. Recalled and covered fully during time period. My seat was never replaced with the updated two piece design. Still has the faulty one piece design. For me to replace it to the 2 piece 600.00 for that as well or deal with new skin every couple seasons for the stress split.


Because the original owner and small dealership never were aware of these recalls and updates they were never done in the time frame. To me if it was a known problem, recalled and fixed under warranty then why shouldn't mine be covered now to get those same updates?


As a mfg

The answer is simple. $$. Easiest way to save it it not have to give out free parts to fix your mistakes

Last edited by xstarrider; 09-28-2015 at 6:59 PM.
Old     (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       09-28-2015, 7:46 PM Reply   
Was there really a recall on the zero off issue? I understand there was an upgrade but not really a recall. Ever seen paperwork on it?
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       09-28-2015, 10:41 PM Reply   
It was technically labeled a "performance upgrade". There was paperwork regarding the"surging" and it's known issue with the "performance upgrade" being the cure . Covered on 210's only. I was told by Zero Off and (3)dealers that part was covered but labor was charged (1)hr for the install and software upgrade.

Last edited by xstarrider; 09-28-2015 at 10:50 PM.
Old     (bass10after)      Join Date: Feb 2010       09-29-2015, 5:03 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyb View Post
I would say that the majority of automotive recalls that have no time limit are for items pertaining to safety where said defect could cause harm or death. I would have no problem going back on the mfr for a real safety issue. I don't feel like this one meets that criteria.
Have you seen the damage a flex plate going bad can do? If you feel comfortable sitting anywhere near one that grenades you must have balls of steel. I specifically recall a picture I saw of one that could have seriously injured someone if they were sitting close to it. I believe it was on the mastercraft forums, if I find the pic I'll post it here. A part that fails and can cause damage to that extent should be over engineered not under.
Old     (Nordicron)      Join Date: Aug 2011       09-29-2015, 6:42 AM Reply   
Xstar? U sure about the 2piece seat skin? I actually had mine replaced under warranty in like 2012 and even asked about going 2 piece and they just put on the same seat skin. Seems to me if there was a recall I got screwed on that. As for the whole zero off, I can tell u my dealer wasn't doing free upgrades. They said system worked as designed with factory ballast. Which for most part did. It was when u started loading up bags that the porpoise started.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       09-29-2015, 7:17 AM Reply   
100% sure On the seat skin. I just called Nautique direct on mine about month ago when mine gave way as it was brought to my attention by a fellow owner. Confirmed it was a warranty replacement a while back by speaking direct with Nautique customer service, but obviously I was out of date. Referred me to Nautiqueparts.com to get me squared away. I went the route of a new skin instead of 600.00 for the new seat.

As far as zero off. I know of (4 )210's first hand that we're covered as mentioned above. Just $$ for the install and flash. That's actually how I knew mine would need the upgrade for sure. It was first question I asked the seller if he had ever done. I do know all 4 boats were serious riders adding weight. 2 of the 4 still own their boats. (2) were out of N3, (1) out of Buxton and (1) out of Dockside. Maybe these dealers stepped up and went the extra mile on the part on their own?

Last edited by xstarrider; 09-29-2015 at 7:25 AM.
Old     (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       09-29-2015, 5:47 PM Reply   
re zero off, I think it was up to the dealer pretty much. I got my 210 too late to talk anyone into it. Kind of bummed cause the antenna alone is $450 bucks. We recently started running more weight in the bow and it helps a ton though. I hate having bags out so we just put a bag in the ski locker and have it take up the whole space between the belly tanks as far up as it can reach. Makes a big enough difference that unless I can get the antenna cheap, i will skip it. At least until the round antenna breaks and eventually I think it will. I don't think they last forever.

p.s. i find it irritating that zero off won't even run a 10% coupon code or give free shipping on that antenna. I ask like once a year....they are more stubborn then me. lol.

Last edited by scottb7; 09-29-2015 at 5:50 PM.

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