TRUMP for Prez

John we are not arguing. I'm just stating my opinion. I don't have a link or some graph to back up my opinion, and even if I did who cares.

Originally Posted by fly135

LOL, the knuckle draggers were all impressed when Trump said he'd forgo his salary. Now they are conspicuously silent about it costing a $1M per day for SS so his wife doesn't have to move into that low rent WH.

1/3 of a billion a year for two people? uh huh. I have a bridge to sell you. Knuckle draggers? nice generalization of half of America.

I seriously doubt half of America was all that impressed that he said he wouldn't accept the paycheck.

It is amusing, those that railed against President Obama and a flight to Hawaii and costs to the public, but overlook something like this. If the roles were reversed, it would be bedlam.

Funny how stuff only matters, if it's not your political party.

Going to be a fun 4 years.

Originally Posted by deuce

It is amusing, those that railed against President Obama and a flight to Hawaii and costs to the public, but overlook something like this. If the roles were reversed, it would be bedlam.

Funny how stuff only matters, if it's not your political party.

Going to be a fun 4 years.

I'd like to ask some of those who said Obama didn't have enough political experience about what they think in regards to Trump's having zero political experience.

It is going to be an interesting 4 years.

I recall the grip was he had noting but political experience and no actual work experience other than being a community organizer.

Originally Posted by brettw

I'd like to ask some of those who said Obama didn't have enough political experience about what they think in regards to Trump's having zero political experience.

It is going to be an interesting 4 years.

I think your comment lacks any thought and understanding.

Trump has to move along multi million dollar projects (if not billion dollar projects). He has thousands of employees around the country and the world. You think running companies and building projects don't have a very large interaction with politicians and dealing with regulations/ paperwork?

Historically our presidents come from some sort of executive experience. The Obama and McCain race meant for the first time we were gong to have a president without some sort of executive experience. Obama never ran anything. Never had employees. Only had 1.5 years in congress where he voted present every time to avoid a voting record. Before that he was a communist organizer.

They are not even in the same ball park for experience.

Originally Posted by deuce

It is amusing, those that railed against President Obama and a flight to Hawaii and costs to the public, but overlook something like this. If the roles were reversed, it would be bedlam.

Funny how stuff only matters, if it's not your political party.

Going to be a fun 4 years.

I don't think people cared about Obama's flights to Hawaii on this board.

If you "peaceful tolerant" democrats would quit sending death threats to his family and to the electors, we would not have to have this.

Originally Posted by deltahoosier

If you "peaceful tolerant" democrats would quit sending death threats to his family and to the electors, we would not have to have this.

Delta, I've missed that -- do you have a citation to where Trump said he'd pay for his own security and / or forego secret service? He's said a lot of crazy ish so I would believe he said it, I just don't recall actually hearing that.

I would also like to see why it would cost $1MM a day for SS for the new first lady. That itself seems ridiculous.

OK yeah, I agree... $365M a year just for first lady? Seems high by at least a factor of 10, probably 100.

Originally Posted by deltahoosier

If you "peaceful tolerant" democrats would quit sending death threats to his family and to the electors, we would not have to have this.

Image for a second that Hillary won the electoral college but lost the popular vote by 2 million people. How much damage would the right be causing. She was getting death threats just for running. Trump called the electoral college a joke that was rigging the election.

Originally Posted by shawndoggy

Delta, I've missed that -- do you have a citation to where Trump said he'd pay for his own security and / or forego secret service? He's said a lot of crazy ish so I would believe he said it, I just don't recall actually hearing that.

I think you are either misreading or mishearing. No one has said either. Point is, if we did not have people threatening the presidents life, we would not need security. If this is an example of the belly aching you guys are going to do the next 4 years, I hope he rams every pet project down the democrats throat just for spite.

Originally Posted by plhorn

Image for a second that Hillary won the electoral college but lost the popular vote by 2 million people. How much damage would the right be causing. She was getting death threats just for running. Trump called the electoral college a joke that was rigging the election.

You do realize that we have not counted millions of absentee ballots don't you? You know the ones from the military and so on. There is zero requirements to count them unless the vote is too close to count in the various areas. Historically the absentee ballots break to the Republicans at 66% rate.

So are you saying that because the election did not go the way you wanted and you feel that you out voted Trump that you are justified in threatening the new President or that it is OK they do so? That is where I hear when you try and play the deflection game.

If you want to go on about the electoral college, it is the most genius of systems. Why would a country want to be dictated policy by 3 small mass populated echo chambers? The college is right on. If you want want to win the election, quit piling up in a small area. Also, what about the 40% of the people that voted Republican in California. The democrats get to take advantage of all that population and simply put those chips on the democrat ticket. It also provides voter suppression against Republicans in the state because many times the election is over before I would even get off work to vote.

Originally Posted by deltahoosier

If this is an example of the belly aching you guys are going to do the next 4 years, I hope he rams every pet project down the democrats throat just for spite.

Deja vu all over again.

Originally Posted by deltahoosier

So are you saying that because the election did not go the way you wanted and you feel that you out voted Trump that you are justified in threatening the new President or that it is OK they do so?

Problem with reading comprehension? He's saying that if the situation was reversed, one can only imagine how much violence that Trump supporters would have perpetrated given that they were already making generalized threats about doing so if Trump lost.

IOW in simpler terms..... He's refuting your notion that it's a right vs left thing.

Originally Posted by deltahoosier

You do realize that we have not counted millions of absentee ballots don't you? You know the ones from the military and so on. There is zero requirements to count them unless the vote is too close to count in the various areas. Historically the absentee ballots break to the Republicans at 66% rate.

What states haven't counted their absentee ballots? Everything I can find says that all absentee ballots ARE counted unless rejected (i.e. the voter sent it in too late or forgot to validate or whatev). Maybe you can point us to an authority that can explain this uncounted absentee thing?

My thought would be sure, those absentee ballots might not matter for president or congress or whatever, but could be absolutely critical for dog catcher or county commissioner or some other local ballot question. I'd be really surprised if the ballots really aren't being counted.

But ICBW and I'm open to you showing me the error of my ways, Delta.

Some of the Dons good work recognised at last

Originally Posted by deltahoosier

You do realize that we have not counted millions of absentee ballots don't you? You know the ones from the military and so on. There is zero requirements to count them unless the vote is too close to count in the various areas. Historically the absentee ballots break to the Republicans at 66% rate.

So are you saying that because the election did not go the way you wanted and you feel that you out voted Trump that you are justified in threatening the new President or that it is OK they do so? That is where I hear when you try and play the deflection game.

If you want to go on about the electoral college, it is the most genius of systems. Why would a country want to be dictated policy by 3 small mass populated echo chambers? The college is right on. If you want want to win the election, quit piling up in a small area. Also, what about the 40% of the people that voted Republican in California. The democrats get to take advantage of all that population and simply put those chips on the democrat ticket. It also provides voter suppression against Republicans in the state because many times the election is over before I would even get off work to vote.

Sorry, but no. Just because you occupy more land doesn't mean your vote gets to count more than those with fewer land.

If knew the actual history of the college it gets very hard to defend. But given that you don't believe the parties flipped platforms, I don't expect you understand there is a history that was outdated years ago.

Not to mention that every other modern country has far more effective election process that is run on popular vote only. All of which rank higher on the Democracy Index than the United States.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

Lucky Trump graciously refused his 400k salary a year, he charged the secret service 1.6m for flying around in his plane protecting him
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/1...Campaign-Trail

Recount! Oh the irony. One one hand, Hilderbeast derides the Don for not accepting the result before the vote, now gets behind a recount in order to flip the result. On the other hand if those naughty ruskys have hacked the voting machines and padded the result for the Don I think I would wet my pants in hysterical laughter.

If anyone thinks conservatives would be acting like the world ended causing riots and inhibiting on people people's rights you're high.



Case in point last two elections. Tell me where all the protests and riots where ? You think there would be any a 3rd time? It's called acting like a grown up. The left doesn't know what that means tho. The media controlled the entire pre polling. They didn't just miss it. The completely fabricated everything with a left slant.

Trump says millions in fraudulent votes were cast, that he actually won the popular vote. There's a recount, and the right makes everyone out to be a villain. Excuse me.... your own leader even says there was fraud. Was there actual voter fraud and you want to get to the bottom of it, or is Trump just full of ****? Its most likely that since the recount didn't not come from within your party, that it must be wrong.

It's comical how the right doesn't see the irony in their rhetoric.

Personally, I don't think the recount could change the outcome of the election. It seems the only ones who think that it could are the crazies, and the right.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...llary-clinton/

On a different note, 11 cops shot and killed by white men in the past two weeks, and the Blue Lives Matter movement is silent. Where is the media coverage?

It's pretty obvious that the Blue Lives Matter isn't for the protection of cops, but only an opposition to Black Lives Matter.

Originally Posted by doublemwa

On a different note, 11 cops shot and killed by white men in the past two weeks, and the Blue Lives Matter movement is silent. Where is the media coverage?

It's pretty obvious that the Blue Lives Matter isn't for the protection of cops, but only an opposition to Black Lives Matter.

Unfortunately cops get shot. Part of the job. Blue lives matter isn't a bunch of racist, terrorists paid for by the left to destroy law and order.


Where has black lives matter been here in Chicago while record paces of over 700 murders and 3300 shootings have occurred. 92% black on black in homicides and 87% in shooting.
Oh they're marching in downtown because an armed black teen w multiple front convictions was shot and killed by police while he was shooting another Gangbanger. Any group whose poster boys are convicted femurs who attempted to kill police is not a movement. It's a hate group. The bigger slap in the face is these families of the biggest dredges in society were paraded in front of the cameras at the White House for votes. Crying over their piece of garbage children who contributed nothing to society but violence.



Come into the real life of big city politics where the constantly the draw districts and vote early and often. Don't require I'd , and allow same day registration to anyone . Hate to tell you but Trump (if he even made the statement ) is correct . Our country has failed when proper I'd isn't a requirement for votes.

Originally Posted by doublemwa

On a different note, 11 cops shot and killed by white men in the past two weeks, and the Blue Lives Matter movement is silent. Where is the media coverage?

It's pretty obvious that the Blue Lives Matter isn't for the protection of cops, but only an opposition to Black Lives Matter.

The white police just shot a black man at Ohio state yesterday. Where are the black lives matter protestors?

A year in jail or loss of citizenship for burning the flag huh. Does he not understand how freedom of speech works?

He doesn't have a clue. Gonna be a long four years of President Crybaby.

"However, despite the Supreme Court’s pronouncements on the issue, seeking to criminalize flag burning has been a regular occurance in American politics, and was pushed in 2005 by Trumps’ Democratic presidential rival and former New York Sen. Hillary Clinton.

In 2005, Clinton co-sponsored the Flag Protection Act which, while it did not call for the stripping of citizenship, made flag burning punishable by a year in jail and a $100,000 fine."

Originally Posted by doublemwa

Sorry, but no. Just because you occupy more land doesn't mean your vote gets to count more than those with fewer land.

If knew the actual history of the college it gets very hard to defend. But given that you don't believe the parties flipped platforms, I don't expect you understand there is a history that was outdated years ago.

Not to mention that every other modern country has far more effective election process that is run on popular vote only. All of which rank higher on the Democracy Index than the United States.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

The fact that you don't realize the parties have not changed is alarming. The same racists were still elected by the same racist democrats even after Nixon and so on. You party is purely based on race based initiatives even now.

For starters, we are not a democracy so there is that. We are a representative republic. The electoral college keeps are you big city in breeders from taking over the country. It is the same rational that the Senate gets two representatives from each state. It is not outdated, it is spot on. What is outdated is the winner take all from a state. 40% of Californians voted Republican yet the democrats get to take those large number of votes and put them in the D column.

Just love liberal maps. Always pulling out the maps that show how much better things are in countries that are pretty much made up of all white people. Should we revisit the first point about parties flipping?

Originally Posted by doublemwa

Trump says millions in fraudulent votes were cast, that he actually won the popular vote. There's a recount, and the right makes everyone out to be a villain. Excuse me.... your own leader even says there was fraud. Was there actual voter fraud and you want to get to the bottom of it, or is Trump just full of ****? Its most likely that since the recount didn't not come from within your party, that it must be wrong.

It's comical how the right doesn't see the irony in their rhetoric.

Personally, I don't think the recount could change the outcome of the election. It seems the only ones who think that it could are the crazies, and the right.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...llary-clinton/

Why aren't they asking for a recount in Hew Hampshire? The vote tally was only 5000 difference. I though you guys argued with me that there was no voter fraud and that democrats never talked about it before?

Originally Posted by fly135

Problem with reading comprehension? He's saying that if the situation was reversed, one can only imagine how much violence that Trump supporters would have perpetrated given that they were already making generalized threats about doing so if Trump lost.

IOW in simpler terms..... He's refuting your notion that it's a right vs left thing.

Interesting thing is, the only people I have seen going to someone's rallies to beat up the other party and historically killing people for ideas are democrats. So no, I don't buy this business that if the shoe was on the other foot nonsense, when it has only been your party that has performed lawlessness in mass.

Originally Posted by doublemwa

On a different note, 11 cops shot and killed by white men in the past two weeks, and the Blue Lives Matter movement is silent. Where is the media coverage?

It's pretty obvious that the Blue Lives Matter isn't for the protection of cops, but only an opposition to Black Lives Matter.

Who says blue lives matter is silent? Never seen them march and burn down cities like the democrat do. How do you know if they are silent or not? I think the message is the same. Quit supporting lawlessness and stop the rhetoric because you are endangering police lives.

Originally Posted by bcd

The white police just shot a black man at Ohio state yesterday. Where are the black lives matter protestors?

There are already comments from the Black Lives people or like minded affiliates along those lines.

Originally Posted by ralph

Lucky Trump graciously refused his 400k salary a year, he charged the secret service 1.6m for flying around in his plane protecting him
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/1...Campaign-Trail

You do realize that the government has different rules for cost accounting compared to the general public.

Originally Posted by psudy

"However, despite the Supreme Court’s pronouncements on the issue, seeking to criminalize flag burning has been a regular occurance in American politics, and was pushed in 2005 by Trumps’ Democratic presidential rival and former New York Sen. Hillary Clinton.

In 2005, Clinton co-sponsored the Flag Protection Act which, while it did not call for the stripping of citizenship, made flag burning punishable by a year in jail and a $100,000 fine."

News flash: they are both twits.

Originally Posted by deltahoosier

You do realize that the government has different rules for cost accounting compared to the general public.

Yes I realize. Just pointing out that broadcasting you are not taking a salary while back charging the Govt for millions is disingenuous.

Originally Posted by ralph

Yes I realize. Just pointing out that broadcasting you are not taking a salary while back charging the Govt for millions is disingenuous.

One is business the other is personal. The government rules may not allow for them to ride for free. You would be surprised what is considered a gift under government rules.

Also, I don't think he broadcast it as much as simply saying he would not take it. The term broadcast is a label by the receiver. I saw it as a simple statement. no more, no less.

Originally Posted by deltahoosier

One is business the other is personal. The government rules may not allow for them to ride for free. You would be surprised what is considered a gift under government rules.

Also, I don't think he broadcast it as much as simply saying he would not take it. The term broadcast is a label by the receiver. I saw it as a simple statement. no more, no less.

AFAIK, there isn't a restriction on donation of goods or services to the government, only to a person, individually. For instance, the statue of liberty and that 9/11 vagina sculpture were donated by France and Russia, respectively.

Trump supporters --

I'm wondering how you feel about how the swamp is being drained thus far? Seems like lots of Washington insiders, billionaires, and wall street insiders. In other words business as usual?

Originally Posted by shawndoggy

Trump supporters --

I'm wondering how you feel about how the swamp is being drained thus far? Seems like lots of Washington insiders, billionaires, and wall street insiders. In other words business as usual?

Draining a swamp is not the reason for my vote. There is only so many people with the expertise to run a government and it sure is not going to be unvetted folks. I will stand with his judgement just like I have with the other presidents. I cannot even begin to know if someone is good or bad in a job from where I sit.

I wanted a general policy direction that was different than trending environmental fascism and spread the US wealth to the third world. After that, the details get filled in real time.

Originally Posted by deltahoosier

I wanted a general policy direction that was different than trending environmental fascism....

Do you think that the way "we" (by we I mean pretty much all western democracy's) currently consume the worlds resources is prudent/responsible?

Personally I think we are terrible custodians of the planet, moving away from "environmentalism" is moving in the wrong direction IMO but super interested to hear your view because in my circles there pretty much consensus that we can and should do much more.

Originally Posted by ralph

Do you think that the way "we" (by we I mean pretty much all western democracy's) currently consume the worlds resources is prudent/responsible?

Personally I think we are terrible custodians of the planet, moving away from "environmentalism" is moving in the wrong direction IMO but super interested to hear your view because in my circles there pretty much consensus that we can and should do much more.

Hard argument to have on a forum where we brag about only burning 5 gallons per hour of fuel...

Originally Posted by ralph

Do you think that the way "we" (by we I mean pretty much all western democracy's) currently consume the worlds resources is prudent/responsible?

Personally I think we are terrible custodians of the planet, moving away from "environmentalism" is moving in the wrong direction IMO but super interested to hear your view because in my circles there pretty much consensus that we can and should do much more.

Do you think it is fair that the pacific rim has all the worlds volcano's that can put out more in one eruption than man can do in a 100 years? All the current underwater volcano's putting garbage into the water.

Environmentalism is a religion/ control mechanism. It has went far away from the conservation movement in which I am a fan. No sense hunting animals until they are extinct just for the thrill of it. Environmentalism is nothing more than a tax scheme at this time.

For instance, we in the US and especially California have tight tolerances for pollution controls. We also have high usage of oil (especially California). So who is actually polluting? Usage does not equate to pollution when you have serious controls on it. So at the end of the day, what is really the argument? If it is pollution, then you should be going after India, Russia and China. If it is strictly usage. Tough. Oil is sold on the world market. Buy it or drill for your own. There is no shortage at this time and not for anytime in the near future.

At the end of the day, the earth has survived meteor strikes. I am sure a neutron burst or two. Mass floods, droughts. Take a look at the CO2 records from when the dinosaurs were on the earth. From what I understand and read, the CO2 was 10,000 times higher than now. How do environmentalists categorize the natural beauty of the earth back then? I am sure they think highly of it.

If you subscribe to Darwin, then we are not long for this world anyway. We should evolve into a different form right? If you subscribe to religion, we are not long for the world either. The chunk of land people are so worried about will survive just fine.

You know when a movement has jumped the shark? When people are trying to monetize it. Environmentalism is highly monetized now.

Originally Posted by shawndoggy

Hard argument to have on a forum where we brag about only burning 5 gallons per hour of fuel...

Ha ha, true. But we can drive Govt to invest in clean energy and law around production pollution which will make a global difference.

Originally Posted by deltahoosier

Do you think it is fair that the pacific rim has all the worlds volcano's that can put out more in one eruption than man can do in a 100 years? All the current underwater volcano's putting garbage into the water.

Yes that is a good argument that maybe our influence is not as great as earths natural processes but that doesn't give mean it is right to through our trash out the window. IMO you live a healthier and happier existence when you respect your environment, quite apart from what it does for other beings which we share the planet with.

Originally Posted by deltahoosier

Environmentalism is a religion/ control mechanism. It has went far away from the conservation movement in which I am a fan. No sense hunting animals until they are extinct just for the thrill of it. Environmentalism is nothing more than a tax scheme at this time.

I totally agree with that but the answer is not dialing it back but forward in the right direction.

Originally Posted by deltahoosier

For instance, we in the US and especially California have tight tolerances for pollution controls. We also have high usage of oil (especially California). So who is actually polluting? Usage does not equate to pollution when you have serious controls on it. So at the end of the day, what is really the argument? If it is pollution, then you should be going after India, Russia and China. If it is strictly usage. Tough. Oil is sold on the world market. Buy it or drill for your own. There is no shortage at this time and not for anytime in the near future.

IMO its just about doing more with less and leaving a smaller footprint for future generations to deal with. The issue with business having no controls around pollution is they can rape and pillage the countryside without paying the true cost of the damage that is done, the costs will still be incurred, just in the future and by our children. Trump seems to be heading in this direction.

Delta, you have a great way of gathering, discerning and distributing the thoughts that most of us already think. I appreciate that. As for the libs on this thread, they have clearly been "gotten to" by the liberal media and seem to reading out of its play book at just about every turn. You can almost predict the next thing out of their mouths every time. Thank you for patiently taking the time to thoughtfully articulate the truth in ways the rest of us can't.

Originally Posted by markj

As for the libs on this thread, they have clearly been "gotten to" by the liberal media and seem to reading out of its play book at just about every turn. You can almost predict the next thing out of their mouths every time.

Unlike Delta, almost everything you type is worthless. If you have an issue with a particular idea then address it with some structured argument.

That was a little harsh, i apologize. My point is it is intellectually lazy to label any idea you don't agree with as liberal and write it off with no analysis or explanation

I've yet to see you win a single argument on this thread so what does that make your words worth?

Originally Posted by markj

I've yet to see you win a single argument on this thread so what does that make your words worth?

Winning arguments on the internet, now that's a hoot.

Originally Posted by markj

Delta, you have a great way of gathering, discerning and distributing the thoughts that most of us already think. I appreciate that. As for the libs on this thread, they have clearly been "gotten to" by the liberal media and seem to reading out of its play book at just about every turn. You can almost predict the next thing out of their mouths every time. Thank you for patiently taking the time to thoughtfully articulate the truth in ways the rest of us can't.

I appreciate the kind words Mark. I do it because I like the challenge of ideas and the ability to express them.

The people on here are fine people. I have boated with a few of them in the past (Now I am too old, fat, lazy and broke for it haha). All great people. The thing we don't understand is the written word is so impersonal and matter of fact. On a board like this, you would think we would break into a knife fight if we met. Further from the truth (except for John, he may knife someone only because he is really old and can afford to throw away his remaining life). Chat rooms are not a communication style we grew up with so the medium is trying. I get triggered sometimes as do others but it is all good.

Ideas and communication make the world go round. Enjoy our disfunctional little family here.

Originally Posted by markj

Delta, you have a great way of gathering, discerning and distributing the thoughts that most of us already think. I appreciate that.

Yeah, he has a PhD in conjecture. A lot of people are drawn to that. I appreciate that he let me know it's unfair that space has all the asteroids though.

Originally Posted by markj

I've yet to see you win a single argument on this thread so what does that make your words worth?

That's for each individual to decide.

Originally Posted by ralph

Ha ha, true. But we can drive Govt to invest in clean energy and law around production pollution which will make a global difference.



Yes that is a good argument that maybe our influence is not as great as earths natural processes but that doesn't give mean it is right to through our trash out the window. IMO you live a healthier and happier existence when you respect your environment, quite apart from what it does for other beings which we share the planet with.


I totally agree with that but the answer is not dialing it back but forward in the right direction.


IMO its just about doing more with less and leaving a smaller footprint for future generations to deal with. The issue with business having no controls around pollution is they can rape and pillage the countryside without paying the true cost of the damage that is done, the costs will still be incurred, just in the future and by our children. Trump seems to be heading in this direction.

Well, I think the idea of doing more with less is a classic middle America lifestyle. Who do you think is rebelling in this election? Look at our voting map?

I agree. Don't throw trash out the window, don't kill everything that walks for the sake of killing it. If you hunt it, use it. Some animals need to be culled or they will simply starve or destroy things (pigs). So I get it and would loved to been able to hunt and so on growing up.

I do like to be able to see across the valley's when I drive so I get that too.

What people are not seeing is things like the carbon tax in California and proposed for all the US. It is just a free money give away to wealth land owners to be able to collect indirect taxes from the working class. On the global scale, it is a continuation of the lefts attempt at globalism and UN control. It allows for indirect taxes of US citizens to share to the world in the name of a fake religion. I absolutely want that rolled back. I want California's Air Research Board rolled back. I don't need an unelected board making monetary police decisions on us.

Originally Posted by deltahoosier

....in the name of a fake religion.

Sorry for the sidebar, but can you help me understand what makes a religion "real" or not?

Originally Posted by shawndoggy

Sorry for the sidebar, but can you help me understand what makes a religion "real" or not?

You beat me to that question. isn't "fake religion" redundant?

Originally Posted by shawndoggy

Sorry for the sidebar, but can you help me understand what makes a religion "real" or not?

Does this really need to be answered? Sounds like an opportunity for snark vs actually digesting and being involved the discussion.

There are bonified religions on this planet. They have lasted over a thousand years and are recognized as a religion. You can argue about the existence of a deity if you want, however the religion still remains.

Then you have people who don't realize they are in a religion so I guess the term fake religion may not be the term. Cult maybe?

Originally Posted by fly135

Yeah, he has a PhD in conjecture. A lot of people are drawn to that. I appreciate that he let me know it's unfair that space has all the asteroids though.

But you did not deny that you may knife someone.......

Originally Posted by deltahoosier

What people are not seeing is things like the carbon tax in California and proposed for all the US. It is just a free money give away to wealth land owners to be able to collect indirect taxes from the working class. On the global scale, it is a continuation of the lefts attempt at globalism and UN control. It allows for indirect taxes of US citizens to share to the world in the name of a fake religion. I absolutely want that rolled back. I want California's Air Research Board rolled back. I don't need an unelected board making monetary police decisions on us.

I agree the environmental ethos has been co-opted, diverted and extremely poorly implemented but IMO the answer is not kill the environmental ethos but to call for it to be implement it properly. Trump is a wreaking ball to smash the status quo, but you have to evaluate what he stands for, is what he replaces it with better or worse than what we have now, the enemy of our enemy is not necessarily our friend.

Originally Posted by deltahoosier

Does this really need to be answered? Sounds like an opportunity for snark vs actually digesting and being involved the discussion.

There are bonified religions on this planet. They have lasted over a thousand years and are recognized as a religion. You can argue about the existence of a deity if you want, however the religion still remains.

Then you have people who don't realize they are in a religion so I guess the term fake religion may not be the term. Cult maybe?

Where do the Mormons fit?

Originally Posted by shawndoggy

Where do the Mormons fit?

Don't really care in terms of the discussion regarding environmentalism.

It is a religion started by the Angel of Light which in the bible is pretty clear as satan. People have to make up their own mind. I don't believe in ritual and isolationism regardless of the religion.

Originally Posted by ralph

I agree the environmental ethos has been co-opted, diverted and extremely poorly implemented but IMO the answer is not kill the environmental ethos but to call for it to be implement it properly. Trump is a wreaking ball to smash the status quo, but you have to evaluate what he stands for, is what he replaces it with better or worse than what we have now, the enemy of our enemy is not necessarily our friend.

My gut feeling is our country could roll back many of our environmental regulations 30 years and still be ahead of China, India, Russia and so on. I don't think Trump can or will roll back things that far.

Ever hear the story of the $800 hammer or toilet seat? It is not that the hammer or toilet seat is anymore special by design. It is the testing, tracking, and other certifications that go along with it to meet a special specification from the military that says it makes the grade. You can go buy the same hammer or toilet seat for $30.

That is what many of these regulations have done to our businesses. You should try and generate hazardous waste sometime. Actually as a private person, you generate a ton of hazardous waste that you do not realize you are generating. As a business or government agency, you would be fined and possibly ran out of business.

Ever put rubbing alcohol on a cotton swab? hazardous waste depending on how you handle it. If it is wet, it is hazardous waste. If it dries, it is not. You are not allowed to let it air dry as a means to make it not waste. If you are using alcohol, you have to track how much you are using in a year to meet the requirements of the Air Research Board. You have to have people that understand the requirements for reporting and make sure you have records. Batteries? Yep. Did you now methanol has a separate federal and state requirement for transportation? The list is huge and the stakes are higher and more expensive as you go up in volume. These are also fairly easy items. Are you competing against businesses that do not have to track such trivial items and report out on them? Considering labor is the biggest cost to a business, you can easily add a million dollars a year to your budget to have the experts on hand to deal with these things.

Originally Posted by shawndoggy

Where do the Mormons fit?

Mostly harmless people who use there religious belief system to guide there actions. Same as other Christians.

Originally Posted by deltahoosier

My gut feeling is our country could roll back many of our environmental regulations 30 years and still be ahead of China, India, Russia and so on. I don't think Trump can or will roll back things that far.

Is that the litmus test? We are better than China. That is similar lazy thinking to "Trump is a unqualified narcissist yeah but Hillary deleted her emails" Frustrating. We can do a lot better than be better than China.

Originally Posted by ralph

Is that the litmus test? We are better than China. That is similar lazy thinking to "Trump is a unqualified narcissist yeah but Hillary deleted her emails" Frustrating. We can do a lot better than be better than China.

I did not state an absolute position, I am just saying how far I believe we could be rolled back and still be ahead of them.

Thing is, we have to compete with in the global economy. We are way ahead of the world in environmental protection so why does the world want to keep beating on America's door? Agenda, that's why. Most of these countries calling for our head live in rat infested sewage. They don't give two craps about the environment. They want the revenue and control from a environmental treaty. If people where really serious about the environment, they would be all over those countries. I guess their pockets are not deep enough.

Originally Posted by ralph

Is that the litmus test? We are better than China. That is similar lazy thinking to "Trump is a unqualified narcissist yeah but Hillary deleted her emails" Frustrating. We can do a lot better than be better than China.

Also one of those people is an opinion, the other person broke the law...... People should not be thrown in prison for an attitude.

Originally Posted by deltahoosier

I did not state an absolute position, I am just saying how far I believe we could be rolled back and still be ahead of them.

Thing is, we have to compete with in the global economy. We are way ahead of the world in environmental protection so why does the world want to keep beating on America's door? Agenda, that's why. Most of these countries calling for our head live in rat infested sewage. They don't give two craps about the environment. They want the revenue and control from a environmental treaty. If people where really serious about the environment, they would be all over those countries. I guess their pockets are not deep enough.

You won't be competing in the global economy if the Don starts slapping a 40% tariff on everything imported.

Originally Posted by deltahoosier

Also one of those people is an opinion, the other person broke the law...... People should not be thrown in prison for an attitude.

I didn't suggest he should be in jail, just not suitable for President

Originally Posted by ralph

You won't be competing in the global economy if the Don starts slapping a 40% tariff on everything imported.

True. I guess we have to ask ourselves do they need our money or do we need theirs? I think Don is a smart executive. He will have his best people look at issues and then triangulate the best approach.

Originally Posted by deltahoosier

I did not state an absolute position, I am just saying how far I believe we could be rolled back and still be ahead of them.

Yeah, but we can't help noticing that the central theme of your argument seems to always go to.... "we should be more like them".

Ooooo, i got a good idea, let's create a diplomatic incident with China so i can build a cheap resort in Taiwan. It will be yuge and tremendous.

Ralph, are you or have you ever been a citizen of the USA? Sorry if this has been covered before.

Originally Posted by markj

Ralph, are you or have you ever been a citizen of the USA? Sorry if this has been covered before.

Nope. And yes it's been covered before

At the end of the day, the earth has survived meteor strikes. I am sure a neutron burst or two. Mass floods, droughts. Take a look at the CO2 records from when the dinosaurs were on the earth. From what I understand and read, the CO2 was 10,000 times higher than now. How do environmentalists categorize the natural beauty of the earth back then? I am sure they think highly of it.

Delta - like you actually believe those things happened...you are conservative Christian, right? And if you do believe those things actually happened, good for you, but then the bible would be incorrect so...... I heard one of the Robinson's on Duck Dynasty saying something about an alligator living on earth for millions of years

You should know that the US is in the top for CO2 - http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/emis/tre_tp20.html
Also, Volcano CO2 accounts for something like 1% of the CO2. Human activity dwarfs it.

The chunk of land people are so worried about will survive just fine.

- this is ridiculous. Are you not paying attention to ice caps and the extreme weather? Do you not care for future generations, your kids, grand kids, etc?

The reason the environmental movement has monetized the environment is because that is the only thing that matters for majority of business, so that is how it has been done in order to actually make a difference. Trump and his far right buddies hate the environmental movement that started in the 60s that want to unwind that. Just read some of what his current crew have said in the past. The only reason the environment has any protection in the US is because of the movement. If we get rid of the EPA or take away most its power you will have no protection from big companies polluting. Have you ever met people that have been victims of pollution? If not just look at the studies that show how terrible pollution and chemicals have been on children in the womb,and how many adult diseases can relate back to that.

I love the environment, but I also like business. I am an entrepreneur and so are many of my friends. I have watched them create successful businesses while protecting and cherishing the environment. When I hear the belly aching about regulation, it just makes me roll my eyes as there is always competitor out there not belly aching and whining, but doing just fine (it just takes creativity, innovation, and hard work).

I like to read opposing view points, but many of your posts are just another product of the anti-science and anti-fact BS that the extreme right represents. The US needs to get back to centrists (Republicans and Democrats) who use logic and facts to get things done.

"Considering labor is the biggest cost to a business" depends on the business
The cost of labor at a fast food restaurant is 25%, many profitable businesses keep their labor cost under 30%, that's probably why they are successful, so most of their cost of the business is other than labor! Many businesses operate on margins of 2 or 3% margins for profit, so it is very important for their labor to be productive, which I cannot believe how they can be productive when they are on their phone's half the time! Maybe labor is Not as costly as you thought it was, but its still a major cost to an employer. Anyways, the federal government sucks! The State government is Ok, and the local or county government is awesome, because you know exactly where every penny goes in a local government, except if you live in Polk county, which really sucks!

Originally Posted by wiscxstar

Delta - like you actually believe those things happened...you are conservative Christian, right? And if you do believe those things actually happened, good for you, but then the bible would be incorrect so...... I heard one of the Robinson's on Duck Dynasty saying something about an alligator living on earth for millions of years

You should know that the US is in the top for CO2 - http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/emis/tre_tp20.html
Also, Volcano CO2 accounts for something like 1% of the CO2. Human activity dwarfs it.

- this is ridiculous. Are you not paying attention to ice caps and the extreme weather? Do you not care for future generations, your kids, grand kids, etc?

The reason the environmental movement has monetized the environment is because that is the only thing that matters for majority of business, so that is how it has been done in order to actually make a difference. Trump and his far right buddies hate the environmental movement that started in the 60s that want to unwind that. Just read some of what his current crew have said in the past. The only reason the environment has any protection in the US is because of the movement. If we get rid of the EPA or take away most its power you will have no protection from big companies polluting. Have you ever met people that have been victims of pollution? If not just look at the studies that show how terrible pollution and chemicals have been on children in the womb,and how many adult diseases can relate back to that.

I love the environment, but I also like business. I am an entrepreneur and so are many of my friends. I have watched them create successful businesses while protecting and cherishing the environment. When I hear the belly aching about regulation, it just makes me roll my eyes as there is always competitor out there not belly aching and whining, but doing just fine (it just takes creativity, innovation, and hard work).

I like to read opposing view points, but many of your posts are just another product of the anti-science and anti-fact BS that the extreme right represents. The US needs to get back to centrists (Republicans and Democrats) who use logic and facts to get things done.

I am pretty sure you don't know what the bible actually says on those items so there is that. I believe in many things and it does not make the bible wrong. It may make what you think you know about the bible wrong but it does not make the bible wrong.

We have always had extreme weather. You talking about falling for a scam. Even environmentalists have morphed the argument from Man Made to simply weather change.

You did not answer the question about the CO2 being higher millions of years ago. Why do the ice core records state that it was much higher? Why was the earth lush and green at that time? (plant food maybe?).

Look at records of human existence. The worst times for human existence was during the mini ice age. Disease and famine.

Northern ice decreasing (which is has in the past) and southern ice increasing as stated by NASA if I recall.

Regarding the EPA. The EPA does not make law and many times they are used political agendas. Laws are on the books already and no one is suggesting the EPA be completely dismantled. Much of their agenda is to tie down companies in paperwork to try and drive them out of the country.

Have I met a victim of pollution. Actually I have. I went out to dinner last month with a lady who as part of the Aron Brokovich (sp?) story. She has had many many surgeries and it was horrible all around. She is one cool lady though. I do believe the EPA has a place, but not a political place. With that case, I can point to the mining water that was dumped into the river. Not a single person in trouble for that because it was a EPA team that did it. In the early 90's a worker on a backhoe punctured a oil line dumping 1000 or so gallons of oil into the water and the supervisor who was not even there got 6 months in prison. Go figure.

Here is the deal. Most organizations like the EPA start out with a good heart and the best intentions. As they go along in time, they start coming up with non-sense to keep a budget. Like many of these non profit groups. Once someone starts collecting a check, they eventually become more and more radicalized in order to find someone who wants to give them a budget. It moves from the cause to keeping a job. That is what much of the environmentalism is about. Ask the guys who were busted making up the temperature data and tried to hide it.

Originally Posted by joeshmoe

"Considering labor is the biggest cost to a business" depends on the business
The cost of labor at a fast food restaurant is 25%, many profitable businesses keep their labor cost under 30%, that's probably why they are successful, so most of their cost of the business is other than labor! Many businesses operate on margins of 2 or 3% margins for profit, so it is very important for their labor to be productive, which I cannot believe how they can be productive when they are on their phone's half the time! Maybe labor is Not as costly as you thought it was, but its still a major cost to an employer. Anyways, the federal government sucks! The State government is Ok, and the local or county government is awesome, because you know exactly where every penny goes in a local government, except if you live in Polk county, which really sucks!

Good to know. They are also dealing with low paid labor. Move to highly compensated engineering fields or hospitals. Wonder what that looks like when much of it is intellectual knowledge and not product based.

Originally Posted by deltahoosier

Ask the guys who were busted making up the temperature data and tried to hide it.

You should really start listening to more than one source for your news.
There was no made up temperature data.

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/02/not...perature-data/

What environmentalist has "morphed to weather change"? Not Scientists that are actually researching it.

Also the EPA makes regulations which for all purposes are laws.

We do agree that bureaucracy is self feeding and tends to grow. But that doesn't mean that the EPA should have its legs cut off.

At this point with 99% of all the scientist who have looked into Climate change enough to have an opinion worth considering agreeing that Climate Change is real and is a problem, not believing in it, makes asking if you believe in gravity a legitimate question.

[QUOTE=deltahoosier;1949804You did not answer the question about the CO2 being higher millions of years ago. Why do the ice core records state that it was much higher?[/QUOTE]

The peak at 7000ppm 500 million years ago was a result of a comet impact. Currently we are at 400ppm, the highest for 400,000 years. If you are suggesting that Trump is ok since a comet impact is worse then i have to agree.

I guess what surprises me is the effects of climate change have already started, but people still say its a hoax

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/04/sc...ady-begun.html

A friend in Miami Beach owns a water front condo. The building had to install basement pumps because it would flood at least once a week.