How To Buy A Boat Brand New

I'm looking to buy a brand new boat in the next month or so. I've never done this before and could use some tips. I have a little runabout, but I bought used, cash, a few years ago. I'm ready for a serious upgrade. I'll put the old boat up for sale myself in a few months as the weather warms up.

I'm deciding between a 2015 Axis T22 and an Axis T23. I'll be paying cash. I won't be using the boat before May, but I'm assuming that buying the boat before the boat show should get me a pretty good discount versus buying it in May. I have no problem whatsoever with the dealership making a fair profit on me. Frankly, it's going to be more of a relationship thing moving forward anyway, as I'll need their help for warranty work, maintenance, and repairs anyway. But I don't want to piss away an extra 10 grand because I'm a rookie boat buyer.

I've looked up the MSRP and the dealer cost on this site: http://www.seedealercost.com/boats. The dealer cost consistently represents about a 27% discount from the MSRP for 2015 Axis boats. I expect I'll pay somewhere between those two numbers. Here are my questions for the experts:

1) Is it really worth it to buy the boat now versus in May? What kind of a discount will that get me?

2) Is it really better to buy before the boat show rather than at the boat show?

3) At this point of the year, am I ordering a boat to be made or what? That is, should I expect to be able to custom order it? Will that cost me or is that no big deal since most of the boats that will be sold this summer haven't been made yet? How do you do that? Do you sit down with the dealer, tell him the colors you want and the options you want and when you want the boat?

4) What's a fair profit on a boat in this price range? How small of a mark-up from dealer cost is worth it to them?

5) If I am custom ordering a boat, do I have to pay for all of it up front, just a deposit until delivery, or nothing until delivery? If a deposit, what's typical and is it usually non-refundable?

6) How does it work when choosing options? Do you just go down the list- I want this, I don't need that, tell me about this etc etc. The dealership probably only has one of each of these models to look at, so it's not like I can look at and play with all the options.

7) Is it typical to be able to add on options at dealer cost, or is every little option another negotiating point?

8) Any other negotiating tips? There are other Axis dealers around, but they're a 4-8 hour drive away, and it's not like I'd be going there for warranty/maintenance work. I would be willing to go that far to buy however, if it represented a large discount (>$2K).

Please share your experience and expertise. Thanks in advance.

Buy from your local dealer. Personally, if I owned my own dealership, I would still do your warranty work even if you didn't buy from me, but I wouldn't make your boat a priority vs. someone who did buy from me. Also, boats are a lot more different than cars, a $2k difference isn't much, but you need to make sure your comparing apples to apples. If the other dealer that is farther away has exactly what you want, then by all means, buy it from them.

Typically, during boat show season, a manufacturer will be willing to offer incentives such as, buy today and get a couple of options free or at a discounted price to the dealers. Of course it won't be a custom built boat to your specific liking, but you can get great deals and incentives at a boat show. Obviously, you can add options to a boat on the floor (as long as it's not an upgraded motor or something complex like that), and if a manufacture rep is present at the time of the sale, I'm sure you can get him/her to give you a deal on some added options that aren't currently on the boat in order to make the deal happen. I doubt they will take options away on an existing unit.

If your picky, I would just wait and get a 2016 build spot and make it the way you like it. Of course it will cost you more, but it will be exactly what you want. That might be worth spending the extra little bit.

As far as fair markup, that is between you and the dealer. If you do go to a boat show, go on the last day of it. They might be more willing to come down on that margin a little bit more vs. if you went on the first day.

I'm a dealer myself of a totally different market and product that typically sells pretty close to MSRP. I often have company reps come with me on a closing to help sweeten the deal if need be. However, unlike boat dealers, I do not have an inventory, so that allows me to sell at or close to MSRP daily. With that said, If I were a boat dealer, August-November is a great time to buy at or near dealer invoice on new (previous year) boats. The boat show is your next best bet if your wanting a 2015 at a good price, and do not want to wait until Aug on that 2015 unit.

Good luck!

So you're saying it's too late for a 2015 build slot? Also, are you saying I"m better off at this point waiting for the February boat shows rather than buying before then?

It should not be too late for a 2015 build slot. At this point I would hold on for the boat show. The deal should be just as good or better as the manufacturers usually throw some stuff in so your not just trying to negotiate with just the dealer. As to not buying local. All of these tow boat companies have what are called "protected territories" meaning if you live at point A you have to buy from dealer A. Dealer B, C, or D can't sell you a boat as you are in dealer A's territory. So you really can't shop dealer's. If you live somewhere and have a dealer your going to be buying from them. If another dealer did break territory rules and sell you a boat and then you showed up at the local dealer with it, not only is he not obligated to do warranty work on the boat(without authorization from the factory) it would start a huge sh%t storm.

Wow that's a shi**y set up. So if I'm in a area that sells a lot of boats the dealer is less likely to negotiate than the dealer 50 or 100 miles away. I'm forced to buy at an increased cost because of where I live? Seems like that's kind of socialist.
What if I do not have a dealer in my area do I have to buy from the closest dealer to my home address? Another words the closest dealer to me is 75 miles but dealer B gives me a better deal but is located 150 miles away. I have to buy from dealer A?

If you are 75 miles from a dealer your in his territory. In most area's if you are within 150 miles your in their territory. These inboard brands don't have huge dealer networks. They aren't like cars with a dealer on every corner. Most manufacturers only have 1 dealer in most States. Plenty of states that don't have a single dealer. I live in the Twin Cities metro area of Minnesota. I have been told that this is either the #1 or #2 inboard market in the US. Roughly 400 new boats(tow boats) a year. We have just one dealer of each type in the area. Next nearest dealers are around 200 miles away.

And I total agree with you. I am not a fan of the territory rules. I can also tell you from working four a dealer the manufacturers to enforce them and when a new boat shows up you didn't sell its a big deal. Like you said if you have a expensive dealer in your area it forces you to look at other brands.

I agree with Boardman. Boat show is the best time to buy. Not only because manufacturers are throwing in free options but other competition at the show. Remember don't show your hand. If they think your interested in another brand that's your ace in the hole. Especially if your paying cash. The advantage there is no bill for them to foot and your a pretty qualified buyer. Another thing to consider is if your state has personal property tax. Most states have sales tax when you purchase a boat but not all have personal property tax. So you want to purchase after January 1st.

IMO the economy is showing signs of slowing down, and I predict boat sales will follow meaning dealers may be more willing to work with you to move products. If a dealer has more customers than boats than why would they want to adjust the price to make a sale.

I would go in and talk to your dealer and tell them exactly what your thinking. If they know that they can lock in a sale now if the price is right I'm sure they would be more than willing to match or beat the boat show deals.

Make sure when you tell them what you're thinking you tell them you're also considering X and y boat also. Never tell them it's just Axis. Then they know you've made up your mind on one brand. It's especially good for negotiating if your also looking at their Major competitors and haven't made up your mind yet.

And don't tell them until the very end you plan to pay cash. Dealerships make anywhere between $500-$2000 on every loan they sell. Maybe more on those big $100K ones. It may tell them you are a qualified buyer, but it also tells them they aren't getting that kick back so they need to pad the deal a little more.

Like said above don't ever let them know you have choose brand X boat alone and thats all you are interested in. Tell them you are shopping for the best boat for the money. I would also research the comparable models to when they ask you sound like you know what your talking about. Nothing better to a boat salesman than an uneducated boat buyer.

I just purchased a 2014 SC and got a tremendous deal on it. I also just checked that website you had listed above and it seems to confirm that as well.

If your are not extremely picky about color and don't mind last year's model IMO that is where you get the best deals. The manufactuer also gives incentives to the dealers to get rid of the last year's models before the boat shows, so you may want to keep an eye out or you could wait until next fall to sweep up a leftover 2015. ---however, if you are like me you don't want to wait another whole boat season for a new boat...I have no will power.

Those prices all appear to be "Base" prices, and we all know that no one spends $80k on a new base model boat with no options. Are these websites known to be very accurate?

If its anything like cars "published" invoice isn't ever really invoice. Its really tough to say for sure as there just aren't packages and models like in cars, where there's a bunch of cars that are all basically the same within a few hundred bucks. Every boat is a one off and there is no baseline for options or pricing. We all know how much prices can very boat to boat. Everyone has a different idea of what they want whether its a custom order customer boat of a dealer floor model. Some dealers order floor boats base and some load them up.

There is really no way to know how accurate that site is unless a manufacturer comes on here and says yes those are indeed what we sell to the dealers for…not a dollar more or a dollar less. With the exception of Malubu these are private companies so no published financials to try and figure it out. The Tige ones show right at 25%. I think its closer to 27%-30%. Based on that IMO, it's still not true invoice and bit to high, but its probably close.

I bought my wakeboard boat new at my dealer's boat show. I visited the dealer 3 times in the fall, deciding what I wanted to buy. It was my dealer who told me ... wait to buy at the boat show! The grandson of the founder was there ... Greg Melloon ... reclining like a grand poobah. The dealer's employees scurried around him like he was royalty. And although he acted like he was just an ordinary guy in front of me, he did seem to enjoy holding court before the employees. After we settled on price, with the flick of his wrist, he ordered me some upgrades and extras for no increase.

I was very pleased with the process. For sure there was a little bit of needless ceremony, but I enjoyed it all the same. I had no buyers remorse.

About buying for cash, it's true the dealer makes some money on the back end for a financed boat. I essentially bought for cash. But I've always reasoned that I can negotiate a better price if I ask for financing. I put 1/3rd down ... and paid off the balance within 12 months.

Originally Posted by SomeYeahoo

1) Is it really worth it to buy the boat now versus in May? What kind of a discount will that get me?

The discount is really up to the dealer and if they are selling out of current inventory or taking up a build slot.

2) Is it really better to buy before the boat show rather than at the boat show?

Active Water Sports is our local Axis dealer and they have a night in November that they claim is the best time of year to buy. Their boat show prices are also pretty good and I have seen owners of MB and rep's from Malibu at both trying to get deals done with buyers.

3) At this point of the year, am I ordering a boat to be made or what? That is, should I expect to be able to custom order it? Will that cost me or is that no big deal since most of the boats that will be sold this summer haven't been made yet? How do you do that? Do you sit down with the dealer, tell him the colors you want and the options you want and when you want the boat?

You can order a boat, but depending on your area the slots may be filling up. You would sit down with your dealer and pick colors and options. My dealer requires a deposit for crazy color combo's or ones that they feel they might not be able to easily sell if you back out.

4) What's a fair profit on a boat in this price range? How small of a mark-up from dealer cost is worth it to them?

The markup is pretty steep on most new boats. Our local dealers probably sell less than half the boats than a warmer climate would, so their margins are higher in some cases. If you custom order and Axis I doubt the deal would be as good as one in inventory or another brand that might be less in demand.

5) If I am custom ordering a boat, do I have to pay for all of it up front, just a deposit until delivery, or nothing until delivery? If a deposit, what's typical and is it usually non-refundable?

Depends. See above, most dealers have their own policy.

6) How does it work when choosing options? Do you just go down the list- I want this, I don't need that, tell me about this etc etc. The dealership probably only has one of each of these models to look at, so it's not like I can look at and play with all the options.

Yes and Correct

7) Is it typical to be able to add on options at dealer cost, or is every little option another negotiating point?

Profit is built in to most options. I know sometimes they will throw in things if you are for real. Typically that happens at the boat show or other off season event to draw you in. It doesn't hurt to ask if they will throw in something to sweeten the deal

8) Any other negotiating tips? There are other Axis dealers around, but they're a 4-8 hour drive away, and it's not like I'd be going there for warranty/maintenance work. I would be willing to go that far to buy however, if it represented a large discount (>$2K).

Like others have already mentioned, the dealers have territories to protect them given they don't sell a ton of these like cars. The nearest competing dealer is in Seattle and you would think that would not come in to play, but they still honor the agreement and won't typically sell to Portland buyers on NEW boats.

Please share your experience and expertise. Thanks in advance.

If you like the people at your dealer I would buy from them. Investigate the service department and how they do things as well. I know our local dealer is awesome at taking care of their customers and going the extra mile at crazy times of the day and night to make sure you are on the water during the summer. If you can find that with a local dealer, it's worth it to engage them and see if you can agree on a new boat. I would also add that you should, if at all possible water test one they have in inventory with as close to the options you want. If you plan on surfing, fill the ballast up, add Fat Sacks and bring a lot of people with you to fill up the cabin. It's a bad feeling to find out after the sale that the boat will not plane with a lot of weight or it takes half the lake in distance to get there due to lack of horse power. Different brands and models have different hulls and drive differently than other ones do. Some do better in rivers and choppy water, some are better on lakes only. If you can't deal with choppy water, some models/brands might be better or worse for that matter at dealing with rough water.

About Dealers and Territories. Most have rules regarding selling new models or new orders but last years holdover inventory (or used) is a different story. So if you find a 2014 that you like you can most likely shop around and those dealers with inventory are usually wanting to get them off their lot so deals can be had.

As far as actual out the door price and MSRP there is always a discount. But that discount will vary with each brand and will also vary with different dealers of the same brand.

When you discuss ordering a new boat some dealers will start out at a higher base price and others will start out at a lower base price. It depends on how much they want to make on the boat sale. Some dealers will add an extra margin on the options chosen and some dealers give them to the customer at the dealers cost because they have already worked the profit into the base price. I

The only thing that really matters is the "out the door" price and how you get there is less important. You want a fair deal and the dealer has to make money. Always buying as close to home is a good idea when it comes to repairs/maintenance/warranty issues but for me it comes to a point where I'll buy out of state if the closest dealer is raping me on the purchase!!

Just do your homework, ask a ton of questions of several dealers and you'll start to see the good ones from the ones who want to make a killing on each sale.

Boat show incentives during show season are always a great time to get some freebees but there are also end of year discounts that put money in your pocket depending on brand. These usually are offered on models on hand as well as new orders ink signed during the promo.

Good luck!

Best possible deal will not be at the boat show. Best possible deal is buying in winter leftovers from last year. i.e. buy now a 2014 and you will save 20-30% off retail.

Went by the dealer yesterday. We think we want the new T23, so that eliminates the "best deal" (i.e. a leftover new 2014 or a used boat.) I didn't tell the salesman that, of course. He says we can still get a build slot and order it how we like and that he'll give us a better deal pre boat show than at boat show as he'd rather use his time there with new customers. 10% down, the rest on delivery. He also asked what other boats I was looking at, so I made something up about needing to look at a Mojo and also considering used "Top 3" boats (of which he's selling some.)

What other 23 foot boats with a surf system should we be looking at/considering in this price range? What's the equivalent Supra, Supreme etc.

based on your original post and Axis 22 and 23 is already on your radar, i'd check out the Supreme S226, Moomba Mojo, Tige RZ2 and Z3. Those are all the same boats and boat dealers I shopped hard over the last few months.

The way you are going about buying a boat is the most accurate way to get the most accurate specification of what you are buying and what you are dispensing with. I would believe that more people frequently buy cars this way than boats ... because ... more people buy cars than boats and then also cars are more frequently replaced than boats. Soon the average car consumer will have the experience to determine what exactly fits his or her tastes ... and ... what can be dispensed with.

Given a 3rd or 4th round of car shopping, a car buyer can have developed a very specific list of what he or she wants.

I am not a boat industry insider, so I do not know the strategy for what stock to bring to boat shows ... ie., whether that is ... if dealers bring in boats fully loaded with options ... or otherwise. But in any event, in my 10 years of going to 1 or 2 regional boat shows a year, this next statement smacks of hyperbole.

" he'll give us a better deal pre boat show than at boat show as he'd rather use his time there with new customers."

I'm sure he'd just rather clinch the deal now than later. But at boat shows, when it comes to how busy dealers are at engaging new shoppers at the boat show, it's not like tuna fishing (I don't think 'tuna fishing' nowadays is the 'tuna fishing' of lore anymore). Any given dealer might have a 'land office' rush for a spell. But otherwise, they have a lot of time on their hands.

As a dealer, selling them a boat BEFORE the boat show ensures their eyes aren't going to get caught by another brand and they change their mind.

But Boats shows are also a great place to buy a boat because you can really compare all the brands, just don't underestimate the deals to be had before.