I keep hearing this Obamacare thing. I just don't get it. I know it isn't perfect and needs a lot of work. But here are my honest questions for Obamacare critics:
1. Do you realize what a "pre-existing condition" meant for people pre-obama care?
1A. If you answered yes to #1, what do you think that does to private insurance margins and it's effects on premiums?
2. Do think a private insurer should be able to deny coverage based on your condition? IE: if you get cancer they can refuse to renew your policy.
3. Do you realize how much profits insurance companies cleared the first 3 quarters this year?
I ask because 5 years ago my step mother started her battle with cancer. After the initial treatment she received an automated notification that her insurance provider would not be renewing her policy based on the amount of required coverage vs her tenure with the provider. When asked, the rep told my family it was a legacy system that predated Obamacare regulations and should be disregarded. However, now my father has the same complaints that you guys have.
I have a friend that can not see a specialist because of Obamacare. My mother died of cancer when I was 26 so I understand your perspective.
1) I understand question 1. It is not a pleasant thought. Many people were denied coverage because they wanted to be ballers with a budget and not have insurance. Found out they were sick, then decided to go get covered. It does not work that way.
2) Insurance is a false statement. These are service plans. Looks at it from that optic and it changes the discussion. There is only so much money in the pot. You can not have a infinite benefit. I think if you have been in the pool for insurance that they should not be able to kick you out however I think they have a responsibility to manage costs. They don't have infinite pockets. Taking money from them is taking money from me so to speak. It is a community pot.
3) If you look at absolute money I am sure it is a big number, however if you look at percentage of the industry I read that it is 3% to 5% profit margin which is very small for businesses from what I understand.
To follow-up on a a common topic it was good to see the market stabilized and even closed at a high yesterday. But buyer beware. As stated markets don't like uncertainty. Things are now certain for the short term which is probably a likely driver for the high. It's like pent up anxiety being released. My (as a hobbiest) market prediction is that it will remain stable, outside of any standard trends, though out the year. Assuming Trump doesn't go off and start spewing ignorance I'll say the market won't reflect his polices until July 2017. So before you guys go getting all getty that things are normal i'll say be patient. It's still to early to tell.
I still standby my statement in his attempt to renegotiate debt, the mention of re-vauling bonds is going to be crushing to our debt structure.
I think he has to be careful with his words, however sometimes the thought that he will do it is enough to get people to the table. We will see.
What I don't agree with its how you package it as "violent libs attack trump supporter". Infuring that the reason they are violent is they are libs, and by extention all libs have violence in them. IMO these people are just violent, their political leanings have nothing to do with it. I just don't see how labeling them in that way moves anything in the right direction. It certainly doesn't heal the country or whatever
They may be "just violent people", however they are being driven by an idea. Hitler, Mussolini, Pol Pot, Stalin, Castro, our founding fathers and so on were driven by an ideology. They in turn try to influence enough people to support said ideas. In these people they were willing to drive people to violence to achieve an end. What we have right now is an ideology that is showing more and more of a penchant for violence. They have used it more than once against a Republican candidates supporters. They have used it against cities. They are marching and protesting causing destruction.
In the cases above the person and their small group were well known and had a face. The case right now is further down the road than the initial back room think tank. They are well funded and mobilized. Many of these protestors are bused in with pre made signs in hand. They are using a leftist ideology to march under. They are violent and are radicals. They have hijacked the democrat party and the moderates (such as yourself even though you are not part of this country) are along for the ride. Why, because we have been taught to stand with our team right or wrong. Usually people wont switch teams, they just don't vote or participate. However once ideas have been put to action like we have now, you will be put to one team or the other when the hammer falls. That is just the way it happens. It is not fair. It is just the way it is.
I find it troubling that people believe repealing the ACA and leaving in place a clause preventing HI companies from rejecting pre-existing conditions is going to lower costs. It's going to be mostly younger healthy people who have no assets to lose that will stop buying insurance and use the ER's for free if an emergency happens. Without costs controls I don't believe HI will ever show a meaningful drop in price. The economic factors in play will tend towards higher prices.
If you want prices to drop you either need to kick sick people to the curb to die, or start controlling costs. It's unfortunate that there is so little statistical data about costs and where the money is going. It's completely cloaked in secrecy from the standpoint of the public and most likely even our elected officials. Quite frankly I don't believe anyone has any data that could be used to actually craft a decent cost controlled heath care policy.
I find it troubling that people believe repealing the ACA and leaving in place a clause preventing HI companies from rejecting pre-existing conditions is going to lower costs. It's going to be mostly younger healthy people who have no assets to lose that will stop buying insurance and use the ER's for free if an emergency happens. Without costs controls I don't believe HI will ever show a meaningful drop in price. The economic factors in play will tend towards higher prices.
If you want prices to drop you either need to kick sick people to the curb to die, or start controlling costs. It's unfortunate that there is so little statistical data about costs and where the money is going. It's completely cloaked in secrecy from the standpoint of the public and most likely even our elected officials. Quite frankly I don't believe anyone has any data that could be used to actually craft a decent cost controlled heath care policy.
Nope. It will only rise. To be honest, I want young people/ all people to have to put their money in the pot. It takes money out of the economy for day to day good and will make them cheaper. I made sure I kept a job that had insurance since I was 19. I have missed out on a lot of things because I could not maximize my income by going for bigger money in a less benefit job.
With that being said, people reacted in terror when opponents talked of death panels. That is kind of what finite benefits are. When you have to talk of a policy that all can afford, then you have to start talking winners and losers at some point. It is not a pretty thought.
Other countries with UHC have higher longevity rates than the US, and 1/2 per capita HC costs. Doesn't sound like they have death panels. Maybe we should start examining those country's HC policies, and lower costs here while covering everyone. Funny how people are afraid to look in the most obvious places for info and direction.
Other countries with UHC have higher longevity rates than the US, and 1/2 per capita HC costs. Doesn't sound like they have death panels. Maybe we should start examining those country's HC policies, and lower costs here while covering everyone. Funny how people are afraid to look in the most obvious places for info and direction.
I have looked into Germany quiet a bit. Not much cheaper on the healthcare side and that is not even factoring in that the citizens are taxed to pay for the college for the doctors and nurses. I think the reason they keep the price down is they own the doctors and the people. There is not real free market to set the cost. Also, wealthier German's pay for private insurance for better service. You can be months to get specialty care from what I understand.
We do not have a free market in the US. When you have a subsidized market with no price controls, it's going to get expensive. I have no problem with people waiting months for specialty care.
I have a friend that can not see a specialist because of Obamacare. My mother died of cancer when I was 26 so I understand your perspective.
1) I understand question 1. It is not a pleasant thought. Many people were denied coverage because they wanted to be ballers with a budget and not have insurance. Found out they were sick, then decided to go get covered. It does not work that way.
2) Insurance is a false statement. These are service plans. Looks at it from that optic and it changes the discussion. There is only so much money in the pot. You can not have a infinite benefit. I think if you have been in the pool for insurance that they should not be able to kick you out however I think they have a responsibility to manage costs. They don't have infinite pockets. Taking money from them is taking money from me so to speak. It is a community pot.
3) If you look at absolute money I am sure it is a big number, however if you look at percentage of the industry I read that it is 3% to 5% profit margin which is very small for businesses from what I understand.
In reply to:
1. I that example that would really be a "pre-existing" but an current condition? In my example, if a cancer patient is denied cover, and they're not able to get more coverage doesn't seem fair. To solve it, (2) I don't believe insurers shouldn't be allowed to sell plans that they can't pay for should the insured cashes in.
I find it incredibly telling when you see the Crybully's" acting the way they do after the ellection. I'm talking about Aaron sorkin's ( liberal Hollywood elite) his letter that he wrote to his 15 year old daughter and wife. It needed up going viral and in Vanty Affair. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/aaron-so...in-goes-viral/
This is what I find disturbing & points out how fake & hypocritical this movement is. In his letter he outlines that with a trump victory "racist White America won" and that's who voted for Trump (racist white males) So by his definition if you voted for trump your a Racist! . Now I'm sure some people that voted for trump are exactly that, but what about the rest of America that voted for Trump. Are we all Racist???? Are we all just a bag of deplorables?
This is coming from the party that was telling us to not Juge all Muslims because of a few Bad apples aka ( Extreme Muslim terrorists). I think that's great advice don't make all of one race or religion or political belief, out to be bad guys because of a few bad apples. That's great advice but it's to bad when the shoe is on the other foot you can't follow or take your own advice!
Grant, it's actually double reverse psychology. The test is to see whether you can synthesize that it's possible that what tipped the election was racists, but yet give the few people calling the electorate out on it a pass for being outliers within "the left."
I think you'll find that most (or at least many) of us who voted for H did so reluctantly, that we believe in the system above party, that we acknowledge Trump won fair and square, and that we will recognize his presidency as legitimate. He already seems to be moderating some of his loonier positions. Time will tell, maybe he'll do a decent job.
How do you guys feel about him "draining the swamp" with lifetime R insider Priebus as chief of staff?
This is what I find disturbing & points out how fake & hypocritical this movement is.
Pretty sure "some famous guy" doesn't represent a whole movement. Whatever that moment supposedly is. The bottom line is that Trump threw out a lot of rhetoric that caused many people to draw the conclusion that he was manipulating the worst in people to gain popularity. Crap that he is distancing himself from now. The whole "intolerance of intolerance is intolerance" argument is lame. But when it comes to politics, I'd saying arguing in circles probably constitutes most of the debate style.
It's not just Priebus as chief, but the entire cabinet is already being filled with classic K street lobbyists - drain the swamp my ass lol.
Not to mention putting his kids in control of both the corporation AND the transition team - classic conflict of interest.
And he wants to live in Manhattan "on the weekends" as if being Pres isn't a 7 day a week job.
Evidently he was shocked at how much work there is to be done and Obama is going to have to spend a lot of extra time with him over the next couple months. He and his whole team are unsurprisingly clueless - they didn't even know they have to replace the entire west wing staff. Sigh.
He also basically walked back every single campaign promise in the 60 minutes interview, and he hasn't even taken office yet lol.
I find it incredibly telling when you see the Crybully's" acting the way they do after the ellection. I'm talking about Aaron sorkin's ( liberal Hollywood elite) his letter that he wrote to his 15 year old daughter and wife. It needed up going viral and in Vanty Affair. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/aaron-so...in-goes-viral/
This is what I find disturbing & points out how fake & hypocritical this movement is. In his letter he outlines that with a trump victory "racist White America won" and that's who voted for Trump (racist white males) So by his definition if you voted for trump your a Racist! . Now I'm sure some people that voted for trump are exactly that, but what about the rest of America that voted for Trump. Are we all Racist???? Are we all just a bag of deplorables?
This is coming from the party that was telling us to not Juge all Muslims because of a few Bad apples aka ( Extreme Muslim terrorists). I think that's great advice don't make all of one race or religion or political belief, out to be bad guys because of a few bad apples. That's great advice but it's to bad when the shoe is on the other foot you can't follow or take your own advice!
Yes, you can't judge a whole bunch by only one. However, Trump rode a wave of white supremacist to the white house and has since tapped Steve Bannon as chief strategist. We're not judging you all on a few bad apples, but the majority of the company you keep. Additionally, you knew exactly who he was when you voted him. The only concrete evidence of his policies were that of racism and bigotry. And I quote "the textbook definition of a racist comment." - Paul Ryan
You can't attend a KKK rally and then come home and say it's because they had a good pancake breakfast.
At this point, I only see two groups of people defending him: People who I know are raciest, and people who claim to be christians. At this point, I think they're both one in the same. At least with Islam, they admit their religion promotes violence and bigotry. Maybe Christians should take a page from that book.
It might be too early to say I told you so. But this speaks to my prediction about Trumps hostility towards debt and it's effect on bonds. Since last Tuesday, the bond market has suffered $1.1 Trillion hit, and 30 year bond rate has increased by .5%! If that doesn't make you nervous then it's no wonder you think Trump is going to help the middle class.
talking about what got Trump ellected. I have seen a few political analysts coment and even Bernie Sanders saying how the dems turned their back on the middle class, America and became champions for the Libral Elite and the Poor. All while expecting the people they turned their back on to pay if it all. Many Americans fell into this class. So not the White Racist people like Sorkin are crying about but middle America all races and religions.
It might be too early to say I told you so. But this speaks to my prediction about Trumps hostility towards debt and it's effect on bonds. Since last Tuesday, the bond market has suffered $1.1 Trillion hit, and 30 year bond rate has increased by .5%! If that doesn't make you nervous then it's no wonder you think Trump is going to help the middle class.
talking about what got Trump ellected. I have seen a few political analysts coment and even Bernie Sanders saying how the dems turned their back on the middle class, America and became champions for the Libral Elite and the Poor. All while expecting the people they turned their back on to pay if it all. Many Americans fell into this class. So not the White Racist people like Sorkin are crying about but middle America all races and religions.
I don't have time to look it up but this morning I saw numbers from the past several elections and Trump had the lowest turn out by a very large margin. I'm not going to defend Clintion's campaign by any means. I'm even a critic of it. But i'm also going not going to let Grant, or Steveo just say, that's not it. So again, the KKK held a "Victory" rally and Steve Bannon is in the West Wing...How are you defending Trump's raciest agenda?
So again, the KKK held a "Victory" rally and Steve Bannon is in the West Wing...How are you defending Trump's raciest agenda?
I think above all Trump is a popularist more than a racist. He saw he could tap in to that vote so assumed that cloak. When it suits him he will assume a different identity.
Its not unexpected for him to not have any idea about running government, that is part of being an outsider. I don't think that is necessary a bad thing if you want to completely overhaul how things are done.
Last edited by ralph; 11-14-2016 at 1:12 PM.
Reason: Format error
I think above all Trump is a popularist more than a racist. He saw he could tap in to that vote so assumed that cloak. When it suits him he will assume a different identity.
Its not unexpected for him to not have any idea about running government, that is part of being an outsider. I don't think that is necessary a bad thing if you want to completely overhaul how things are done.
Why can't anyone answer the fact that Steve Bannon is a top advisor.....
If you were not a raciest, and only wearing a cloak, then you wouldn't have picked a raciest as your advisor. That is just simple logic....
If he were an outsider, why did he pick long standing Washington Elite as his top picks?
I think we are seeing the real deplorables in the protests. Democrats locked step with the lunatic fringe for special rights to the micro-minorities and forgot about who pays for everything. The middle and upper middle class - AKA The silent majority. We took our protest to the polls. Not glamourous but effective now that Republican's control all 3 branches of Federal government.
What is even more entertaining is watching these losers protesting in Hillary's favor claiming we better be ready for civil war and a fight. Aren't you all anti-gun? What are you going to fight with? Sharpies and glue sticks for your protest signs. LMAO!!
I think we are seeing the real deplorables in the protests. Democrats locked step with the lunatic fringe for special rights to the micro-minorities and forgot about who pays for everything. The middle and upper middle class - AKA The silent majority. We took our protest to the polls. Not glamourous but effective now that Republican's control all 3 branches of Federal government.
What is even more entertaining is watching these losers protesting in Hillary's favor claiming we better be ready for civil war and a fight. Aren't you all anti-gun? What are you going to fight with? Sharpies and glue sticks for your protest signs. LMAO!!
I keep checking back for answer how you guys can defend a raciest agenda, and just saw the above:
People are protesting because it's their right, not sure how that makes them deplorable. Second, there are plenty of stories of conservatives promising a revolution if Trump lost:
Is it selective memory that when you guys thought you were going to loose that you wanted a revolution? But now you fault the otherside for protesting it? Your better argument would be that Trump was criticized following his reluctance to concede the election after the 3rd debate. Adversely, liberals should be more willing to concede. Even then you're forgetting he lost the popular vote by yesterdays count of 668K votes.
Additionally, you're pretty happy given the Electoral College has yet to cast ballots. Not that I think it will happen, but a few electorates have vowed not to cast their ballot for Trump. Hypothetically, (thats a BIG what if) Let's say 70 of them go rouge and vote Hillary into office. Are you going to concede the outcome? What if conservatives take the streets in protest over the electoral college's decision not to elect Trump?
To agree with another point, liberals don't know how to protest. They take to the streets with merkey messages that are not cohesive enough to get a message across. Think back to the occupy movement in 2012. It was just a bunch of noisy millennials with no real message. Today we have "not my president"! Tough ****, he is. Should have been that motivated before Nov 8th and maybe he wouldn't be.
Double
I think who trump decides to put in his cabinet matters not, (this is just my opinion) You keep calling the guy Racist but I don't know anything about him to know if that's a accurate term for the guy.
I do know the Libs love the Term "Racist" it's a crybully word for anyone they don't agree with. Here is a example of how I see Libs work and interact with the media. Example take the letter Aaron Sorkin wrote that I posted a link to. He claimed that the people that voted for trump were all white racist, Well we know that all sorts of people voted for Trump. Old & Young, Veterans, Gay & Straight, Black and White. All walks of life. So in essence Aaron's letter offend all these people so I declare First off I delacre Aarons letter HATE SPEACH, and its was Racist, Homphobic, Anti woman Rights. Anti Veteran, bla bla blah and down the list.
Double
I think who trump decides to put in his cabinet matters not, (this is just my opinion) You keep calling the guy Racist but I don't know anything about him to know if that's a accurate term for the guy.
I do know the Libs love the Term "Racist" it's a crybully word for anyone they don't agree with. Here is a example of how I see Libs work and interact with the media. Example take the letter Aaron Sorkin wrote that I posted a link to. He claimed that the people that voted for trump were all white racist, Well we know that all sorts of people voted for Trump. Old & Young, Veterans, Gay & Straight, Black and White. All walks of life. So in essence Aaron's letter offend all these people so I declare First off I delacre Aarons letter HATE SPEACH, and its was Racist, Homphobic, Anti woman Rights. Anti Veteran, bla bla blah and down the list.
If you are dismissing the term raciest because that is what liberals are calling you, well then there might be something to it. Secondly, as you said, that was one mans letter to his daughter. If you don't know who Steve Bannon is then you have no business dismissing the term "raciest" as a "crybully" tactic. You're not allowed to support raciest, and then say people are bullying you when they call you out on it. That is by definition, a pussy. Grow a pair and just own the fact that you like Trump's raciest rhetoric. Assuming you have a daughter, don't get offended when someone famous grabs her by the pussy.
And I as stated, I think everyone who voted for him is some degree of raciest, rather the know it or not. You assume Mexicans are taking your jobs, so you want to build a wall. Etc. Etc.
How about Carson said he didn't want a cabinet position this morning. Is it because he was once running for president but now says "he has no business in government bureaucracy", LOL. Or is it because the cabinet is filling up with raciest?
According to Reuters, Carson's advisor said "His life has not prepared him to be a Cabinet secretary."
Which leaves me scratching my head... wtf I thought we were supposed to be draining the swamp and replacing all of these entrenched insiders with super-intelligent newbs who will bring common sense to the table. What does experience have to do with anything? I thought lack of experience was supposed to be a asset in the Trump admin?
the mass influx of hispanics has destroyed several border towns.
I know that is harsh....one argument would be that they have just replaced the once existing culture, ecosystem, traditions......with another one. That's all fine and good. Many have nothing against their traditions, language, beliefs....etc.
except, that when done in mass.....completely destroys, ruins, replaces what was once there.
lets say that you own a brick and mortar business that has been in the family for generations or just mere decades. Because of the cultural change, language change, etc......your business is at a severe risk of dying.
People that I talk to, and myself, want to protect our way of life....just like you want to protect yours. If immigration was slowed down, and immigrants were able to assimilate and blend in to the existing structure and culture, many would not have as big of an issue
Yes, you can't judge a whole bunch by only one. However, Trump rode a wave of white supremacist to the white house and has since tapped Steve Bannon as chief strategist. We're not judging you all on a few bad apples, but the majority of the company you keep. Additionally, you knew exactly who he was when you voted him. The only concrete evidence of his policies were that of racism and bigotry. And I quote "the textbook definition of a racist comment." - Paul Ryan
You can't attend a KKK rally and then come home and say it's because they had a good pancake breakfast.
At this point, I only see two groups of people defending him: People who I know are raciest, and people who claim to be christians. At this point, I think they're both one in the same. At least with Islam, they admit their religion promotes violence and bigotry. Maybe Christians should take a page from that book.
This is why I see a shooting war with democrats in the near future........
Good people are not going to continue to stand and listen to this type of bull****. We are tired of you democrats burning down the cities. Tired of you attacking our religion. Tired of you attacking our borders and culture. Hell Obama can not even say the word "STOP" It is going to end badly.
Quick questions: Why are the heavy democrat voting areas also the highest crime areas? Why is it when democrats talk of better places to live, it is pretty much all white countries?
Last edited by deltahoosier; 11-15-2016 at 3:14 PM.
According to Reuters, Carson's advisor said "His life has not prepared him to be a Cabinet secretary."
Which leaves me scratching my head... wtf I thought we were supposed to be draining the swamp and replacing all of these entrenched insiders with super-intelligent newbs who will bring common sense to the table. What does experience have to do with anything? I thought lack of experience was supposed to be a asset in the Trump admin?
You do realize you still need people who know how the government works right? There are left overs that know how to run divisions of the agencies. Next time a democrat is elected, the same faces will be there for that. It is just the way it is and needs to be.
If you are dismissing the term raciest because that is what liberals are calling you, well then there might be something to it. Secondly, as you said, that was one mans letter to his daughter. If you don't know who Steve Bannon is then you have no business dismissing the term "raciest" as a "crybully" tactic. You're not allowed to support raciest, and then say people are bullying you when they call you out on it. That is by definition, a pussy. Grow a pair and just own the fact that you like Trump's raciest rhetoric. Assuming you have a daughter, don't get offended when someone famous grabs her by the pussy.
And I as stated, I think everyone who voted for him is some degree of raciest, rather the know it or not. You assume Mexicans are taking your jobs, so you want to build a wall. Etc. Etc.
How about Carson said he didn't want a cabinet position this morning. Is it because he was once running for president but now says "he has no business in government bureaucracy", LOL. Or is it because the cabinet is filling up with raciest?
You are describing xenophobic and I am proud to be xenophobic. I don't buy into the garbage of cultural relativism. Can you tell me which successful system over government that these mass illegal immigrants came from? What ideas they are bringing to the table? Or are they collecting cash to send out of the country while collecting money from the American tax payer to help cover living expenses?
Beauty is, this is America and as American's we get to make the laws and can choose to protect our way of life. Just because you democrats have bought into internationalism does not mean we do.
By the way, your boy who ran the cake making couple out of business in Oregon was ran out of office. They actually elected a Republican in a heavy democrat state. I guess even heavy liberal people are scared of your brand of government backed jack boot thugs running around. Hits a little too close to home for their liking.....
You do realize you still need people who know how the government works right? There are left overs that know how to run divisions of the agencies. Next time a democrat is elected, the same faces will be there for that. It is just the way it is and needs to be.
Delta, OF COURSE I understand that. I'm personally an opponent of term limits and believe that we should have the most skilled and experienced people in positions of power.
What I'm surprised about is that Trump appears to be going my way rather than drastically draining the swamp of experience.
Delta, OF COURSE I understand that. I'm personally an opponent of term limits and believe that we should have the most skilled and experienced people in positions of power.
What I'm surprised about is that Trump appears to be going my way rather than drastically draining the swamp of experience.
I think, as an executive, he looks at what has to get done then makes decisions as to who may best fit those positions. He could not go in and acquire a company then gut it's core staff and hope to keep it running. Same with the government.
I think you can drain the swamp at some point. Those are policies and appointed czars. Keep the status quo, look at the pro's and con's of keeping a department then go to work on the next one.
I'm trying not be a Srie winner BUT you Libs are such cry "F"ing baby's (Wes did I spell cry "F"ing baby's correct)?
Trump should appoint this guy Or not have appointed that guy LOL your so butt hurt get over it. You Libs have had it your way for so lone you have no idea how to deal with a loss you remind me of my Nephews T ball league where they don't keep score so as to not make the losers of the game cry at the end. "In a TRUMP accent". what a bunch of Loozers!! 😂
Of course he will appoint those he wishes to...just like every other president has. Who do you guys think he would appoint, Hillary? I also find it entertaining that the left is soooo worked up about Steven Bannon.
"The sky is falling!!!!!"
Just like on election night when yall were posting about impending financial doom and gloom. Looked at the market recently?
Speculation about what he might or might not do is pretty silly.
Don't even pretend Christianity hasn't fueled many a war and attacks over the years. Yes, christians are more dangerous than Muslims. Look it up. Don't get me wrong, I grew up to Baptist and still go to church on Sundays. But don't think the irony isn't lost on me. You might also want to remind yourself of the separation of church and state per the constitution.
If you're tired of being called racist then you should of thought about that before rallying behind trump.
And don't forget about conservative's "peaceful" protest:
Americans....setting rules... you're right. Did you guys stop reading the constitution after the 2nd amendment? There is a part in that allows to protest, regardless if you agree or not. You can cry, bitch and complain (just like they are) as much as you want but it's still their American right. At least they are standing for something. Or maybe you're hoping that no one will notice that Hillary has now won the popular vote by more than 1M votes.... humm.... who does the system work for? Delta, Grant, any of you guys got some slaves you want to count for 2/5 a vote?
I'm happy to give him the benefit of the doubt and re-evaluate when we see some policy implemented.
Protesting about the loss and trying to snake a victory via the electoral college system is undemocratic IMO. Faining outrage when the Don talked about not accepting the result then throwing your toys out of the cot when the loss comes your way is below childish.
Or maybe you're hoping that no one will notice that Hillary has now won the popular vote by more than 1M votes.... humm.... who does the system work for?
The system is broken, everybody knows that and have known it for years but to have any credibility you cannot fix the system and apply it retrospectively, you have to do it in advance so the race is run under consistent rules. Otherwise either side can quite rightfully say they would have competed in a different way if it was a popular vote rather than college vote.
Ben Carson declines a cabinet position because even after running for president he decides "he's not cut out for govt bureaucracy' sounds fishy to me.... or is it more likely he does not want to work under Bannon. I've heard grumblings that Bannon demanded Carson call him 'masa. Delta, you know what I'm talking about. haha
Trump has now tapped Giuliani as potential SOS, I thought voting for the Iraq war was disqualifying for not only President but also for SOS.....
Trump has now flipped on his position for lobbyist, the Iraq war, Obamacare.....what am I missing...
your link of the "black church" burnt with Vote Trump" spray painted on it smells just like the kind of mis direction the liberal party cooks up. Your founder Sal Alinsky would be proud. BTW nothing wrong with peacefull protest. But the way your party protests it always involves a footlocker getting looted. Sorry my brother that's not what our founding fathers had in mind.
Don't even pretend Christianity hasn't fueled many a war and attacks over the years. Yes, christians are more dangerous than Muslims. Look it up. Don't get me wrong, I grew up to Baptist and still go to church on Sundays. But don't think the irony isn't lost on me. You might also want to remind yourself of the separation of church and state per the constitution.
If you're tired of being called racist then you should of thought about that before rallying behind trump.
And don't forget about conservative's "peaceful" protest:
Americans....setting rules... you're right. Did you guys stop reading the constitution after the 2nd amendment? There is a part in that allows to protest, regardless if you agree or not. You can cry, bitch and complain (just like they are) as much as you want but it's still their American right. At least they are standing for something. Or maybe you're hoping that no one will notice that Hillary has now won the popular vote by more than 1M votes.... humm.... who does the system work for? Delta, Grant, any of you guys got some slaves you want to count for 2/5 a vote?
Please don't ever tell anyone that you go to a Baptist church ever again if you support the democrat party. That is just wrong on a nuclear level.
Sorry my brother that's not what our founding fathers had in mind.
Please explain and justify the destruction of private property in contravention of the rule of law conducted by the participants in the Boston Tea Party, Grant.
@ the 1:28 Mark - What happens on earth doesn't matter in the kingdom of god. Therefore, whatever political party you identify with, does not have a bearing on salvation. I remind you of Mathew 8:18-22
@ the 5:03 mark - you're not voting for a coalition, but a leader. I direct you back to the coalition of the Republican party and where they have abandoned key christian values. Additionally, he says "punish those who do wrong" just before saying "the Democrat party is trending away the protection of life" well lets dig into that - The short, the foundation of your basis that only democrats are pro-choice is where you loose the high ground.
Republicans who supported Pro-Choice, in some degree:
Sen. Mark Kirk
Sen. David Vitter
Sen. Lisa Murkowski
Sen. David Vitter
Lindsey Graham - ‘You gotta carry the child of the rapist.’
Richard L. Hanna
Donald Trump just a few years back: “pro-choice in every respect”
More obscure:
close to 30% of Registered Republicans
Roe v. Wade Passed a 4/5 SC with a 7-2 vote (IE: 2 republican at the time)
There is a prolife bill 2014(ish) that overwhelming passed but failed in the house due to mid-term elections, just can't find it right now.
We could go on but the basic point, Pro-Choice isn't split down party lines. To take MacArthur's preservation of life a step further, it doesn't take into account the 25(ish) mid & late-term birth defects that have a 90%+ mortality rate in both mother and child. At what cost are your "preserving life" Isn't it argued that if God creates all then he also created abortions?
Should we even touch on how an over whelming number of republicans forget about contraceptives by dismissing gods will with the life starts at conception benchmark? If you think I'm wrong I dare you to look it up.
My conference call is wrapping up so I'll just close with:
While the abortion maybe a thin argument, i'll give you that, you should realize doing good starts locally. You'll be judged by the good that you did. If you don't believe in abortion, then don't get one. If you don't believe in gay marriage, don't get gay married.
You should also take a step back and look at the similarities of forcing a religious belief and Muhammads crusade through the arabic peninsula. Subsequently, how it inserted violence into the religion. Choice exist because of the constitution separates church and state. So if you believe in voting based on religion, then you should also stop with the 2nd amendment thing.
@ the 1:28 Mark - What happens on earth doesn't matter in the kingdom of god. Therefore, whatever political party you identify with, does not have a bearing on salvation. I remind you of Mathew 8:18-22
@ the 5:03 mark - you're not voting for a coalition, but a leader. I direct you back to the coalition of the Republican party and where they have abandoned key christian values. Additionally, he says "punish those who do wrong" just before saying "the Democrat party is trending away the protection of life" well lets dig into that - The short, the foundation of your basis that only democrats are pro-choice is where you loose the high ground.
Republicans who supported Pro-Choice, in some degree:
Sen. Mark Kirk
Sen. David Vitter
Sen. Lisa Murkowski
Sen. David Vitter
Lindsey Graham - ‘You gotta carry the child of the rapist.’
Richard L. Hanna
Donald Trump just a few years back: “pro-choice in every respect”
More obscure:
close to 30% of Registered Republicans
Roe v. Wade Passed a 4/5 SC with a 7-2 vote (IE: 2 republican at the time)
There is a prolife bill 2014(ish) that overwhelming passed but failed in the house due to mid-term elections, just can't find it right now.
We could go on but the basic point, Pro-Choice isn't split down party lines. To take MacArthur's preservation of life a step further, it doesn't take into account the 25(ish) mid & late-term birth defects that have a 90%+ mortality rate in both mother and child. At what cost are your "preserving life" Isn't it argued that if God creates all then he also created abortions?
Should we even touch on how an over whelming number of republicans forget about contraceptives by dismissing gods will with the life starts at conception benchmark? If you think I'm wrong I dare you to look it up.
My conference call is wrapping up so I'll just close with:
While the abortion maybe a thin argument, i'll give you that, you should realize doing good starts locally. You'll be judged by the good that you did. If you don't believe in abortion, then don't get one. If you don't believe in gay marriage, don't get gay married.
You should also take a step back and look at the similarities of forcing a religious belief and Muhammads crusade through the arabic peninsula. Subsequently, how it inserted violence into the religion. Choice exist because of the constitution separates church and state. So if you believe in voting based on religion, then you should also stop with the 2nd amendment thing.
There are definitely some republicans on the wrong side of the abortion issue as well as other issues. Not sure what you mean about contraception. If you're talking about methods like an IUD that won't allow a fertilized egg (human being) to attach, that's the same thing as an abortion.
As for the rest of what you say, you clearly don't believe the Bible which is God's word to everyone. Please stop confusing people about what true christians believe. Better yet, go talk to your pastor and run your logic by him and show him the link I gave you.
Don't even pretend Christianity hasn't fueled many a war and attacks over the years. Yes, christians are more dangerous than Muslims. Look it up. Don't get me wrong, I grew up to Baptist and still go to church on Sundays. But don't think the irony isn't lost on me. You might also want to remind yourself of the separation of church and state per the constitution.
If you're tired of being called racist then you should of thought about that before rallying behind trump.
And don't forget about conservative's "peaceful" protest:
Americans....setting rules... you're right. Did you guys stop reading the constitution after the 2nd amendment? There is a part in that allows to protest, regardless if you agree or not. You can cry, bitch and complain (just like they are) as much as you want but it's still their American right. At least they are standing for something. Or maybe you're hoping that no one will notice that Hillary has now won the popular vote by more than 1M votes.... humm.... who does the system work for? Delta, Grant, any of you guys got some slaves you want to count for 2/5 a vote?
Delta comes in? I have been here since 2002 you ass wipe.
Don't lecture me on Christianity vs Islam then try and tell me you are a Baptist. For starters, you don't know the difference between Catholicism and Christianity. Church and state is what in this matter. There is nothing in the constitution about culture. There is zero in the constitution on who is allowed in the country from other countries. Your lame argument has nothing to do with anything.
Keep calling people racists you racist. You belong to a party who voted against every single civil rights legislation. Started the Klan. Had high ranking Klan members elected to office in modern times. Even has a democrat president state he would have ni$$ers voting democrat for 200 years by giving them a little bit but not enough to matter. Racist? my a$$.
Your party is dying. Being propped up with mouthy drunk idiots like yourself. No one wants to align with your propaganda. You guys are getting marginalized election by election because you have changed for the worse. You are more and more radical. You trying to tell good people that right is wrong. Calling everyone racist because they don't believe in your destruction of America in the name of international share the wealth society. Your party is doing what marginalized leftists have done for the last century. They get violent. You see it in the streets more and more. Even liberals like Bill Maher are trying to tell you to stop. But you can't stop. Children don't know how to reign in their emotions. That is why your party wants children to vote with them because share the wealth works on children and for those who are trying to control the children. Those who can actually think know your brand of liberalism does not work.
Tell you what, if someone in person calls me that to me face; I guarantee you that I will give them a chance to walk it back. Then I will make it so they want to fight at that point. They will want to physically touch me and then they will get my fist in their face. Period. It will be on. I am not the only one that feels that way and that is why I can believe there will be a shooting war with democrats. You are doing what liberals historically do. Resort to violence. As you continue to disrupt and destroy people are going to feel their backs against the wall and it is going to happen if you don't stop.
Delta comes in? I have been here since 2002 you ass wipe.
Don't lecture me on Christianity vs Islam then try and tell me you are a Baptist. For starters, you don't know the difference between Catholicism and Christianity. Church and state is what in this matter. There is nothing in the constitution about culture. There is zero in the constitution on who is allowed in the country from other countries. Your lame argument has nothing to do with anything.
Keep calling people racists you racist. You belong to a party who voted against every single civil rights legislation. Started the Klan. Had high ranking Klan members elected to office in modern times. Even has a democrat president state he would have ni$$ers voting democrat for 200 years by giving them a little bit but not enough to matter. Racist? my a$$.
Your party is dying. Being propped up with mouthy drunk idiots like yourself. No one wants to align with your propaganda. You guys are getting marginalized election by election because you have changed for the worse. You are more and more radical. You trying to tell good people that right is wrong. Calling everyone racist because they don't believe in your destruction of America in the name of international share the wealth society. Your party is doing what marginalized leftists have done for the last century. They get violent. You see it in the streets more and more. Even liberals like Bill Maher are trying to tell you to stop. But you can't stop. Children don't know how to reign in their emotions. That is why your party wants children to vote with them because share the wealth works on children and for those who are trying to control the children. Those who can actually think know your brand of liberalism does not work.
Tell you what, if someone in person calls me that to me face; I guarantee you that I will give them a chance to walk it back. Then I will make it so they want to fight at that point. They will want to physically touch me and then they will get my fist in their face. Period. It will be on. I am not the only one that feels that way and that is why I can believe there will be a shooting war with democrats. You are doing what liberals historically do. Resort to violence. As you continue to disrupt and destroy people are going to feel their backs against the wall and it is going to happen if you don't stop.
Delta is Right. Fact Abe Lincoln was a REPUBLICAN ( who led the civil war) but yet he was adopted by the Dems as the "founder of Democratic Party" . Read some history Andrew Jackson was the founding father of the Democratic Party and a notorious slave owner. (Whoops that might not fit in with your addenda Libs) Dems were the ones pushing slavery.(O no another inconvenient fact) I guess it's time to fill the university's with more teachers like Bill Ayers who will push and re-write history to make the Libs out to be the Heros. Delta is also right about Linden Johnson.
There are definitely some republicans on the wrong side of the abortion issue as well as other issues. Not sure what you mean about contraception. If you're talking about methods like an IUD that won't allow a fertilized egg (human being) to attach, that's the same thing as an abortion.
As for the rest of what you say, you clearly don't believe the Bible which is God's word to everyone. Please stop confusing people about what true christians believe. Better yet, go talk to your pastor and run your logic by him and show him the link I gave you.
Lol, I knew you were out there but I didn't think you were THIS out there. Putting aside for a moment that copper IUDs kill sperm and generally prevent fertilization (yes they also interfere with implantation), it sounds like you are also strongly against IVF and basically any work with embryos whatsoever?
Delta comes in? I have been here since 2002 you ass wipe.
Don't lecture me on Christianity vs Islam then try and tell me you are a Baptist. For starters, you don't know the difference between Catholicism and Christianity. Church and state is what in this matter. There is nothing in the constitution about culture. There is zero in the constitution on who is allowed in the country from other countries. Your lame argument has nothing to do with anything.
Keep calling people racists you racist. You belong to a party who voted against every single civil rights legislation. Started the Klan. Had high ranking Klan members elected to office in modern times. Even has a democrat president state he would have ni$$ers voting democrat for 200 years by giving them a little bit but not enough to matter. Racist? my a$$.
Your party is dying. Being propped up with mouthy drunk idiots like yourself. No one wants to align with your propaganda. You guys are getting marginalized election by election because you have changed for the worse. You are more and more radical. You trying to tell good people that right is wrong. Calling everyone racist because they don't believe in your destruction of America in the name of international share the wealth society. Your party is doing what marginalized leftists have done for the last century. They get violent. You see it in the streets more and more. Even liberals like Bill Maher are trying to tell you to stop. But you can't stop. Children don't know how to reign in their emotions. That is why your party wants children to vote with them because share the wealth works on children and for those who are trying to control the children. Those who can actually think know your brand of liberalism does not work.
Tell you what, if someone in person calls me that to me face; I guarantee you that I will give them a chance to walk it back. Then I will make it so they want to fight at that point. They will want to physically touch me and then they will get my fist in their face. Period. It will be on. I am not the only one that feels that way and that is why I can believe there will be a shooting war with democrats. You are doing what liberals historically do. Resort to violence. As you continue to disrupt and destroy people are going to feel their backs against the wall and it is going to happen if you don't stop.
Oh. BTW, the Bundy's were acquited in Oregon.
Little testy huh...Settle down.
When you say "every single civil rights act" are you selectively forgetting the defining movement when the parties flipped platforms?
Lol, I knew you were out there but I didn't think you were THIS out there. Putting aside for a moment that copper IUDs kill sperm and generally prevent fertilization (yes they also interfere with implantation), it sounds like you are also strongly against IVF and basically any work with embryos whatsoever?
I'm not down with birth control is abortion thing either. I think abortion is barbaric and was another democrat program to cull the amount of blacks being born. You can thank Margaret Sanger for that. With that said, it is like saying you did not have sex or you pulled out so you had an abortion argument. I don't buy it.
deltahoosier
(doublemwa)Join Date: May 2016
11-16-2016, 10:57 AM
Delta is Right. Fact Abe Lincoln was a REPUBLICAN ( who led the civil war) but yet he was adopted by the Dems as the "founder of Democratic Party" . Read some history Andrew Jackson was the founding father of the Democratic Party and a notorious slave owner. (Whoops that might not fit in with your addenda Libs) Dems were the ones pushing slavery.(O no another inconvenient fact) I guess it's time to fill the university's with more teachers like Bill Ayers who will push and re-write history to make the Libs out to be the Heros. Delta is also right about Linden Johnson.
10-4 good buddy, but you may want to read the above in that when ol' honest Abe was Republican at a time when they were also the "progressive" party. Adversely, the Dems were the "conservative" party. When trying to defend which party has championed for civil rights, there was a flip.
Progressive: (of a group, person, or idea) favoring or implementing social reform or new, liberal ideas.
Conservative: holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation, typically in relation to politics or religion.
Of those two, which one would apply to abolishing slavery?
They never flipped platforms. Every single racist democrat that was elected before that was elected after that as well.
Thurmond rejected the Klan. Robert Bird and others were still active.
The young people always vote more liberal. Then they grow up and get jobs and realize cause and effect. That is the nature of life. That is why liberals don't target middle aged people because emotional topics are just that.....emotional.
Nevada is a different deal. Oregon they are free. They are on trial in Nevada and they could win there too. What did the Bundy's burn down? Did I miss something. Did anyone get hurt with the Bundy situation? Do you realize the government under Obama has been buying up and declaring property the governments at a high rate?
I'm not down with birth control is abortion thing either. I think abortion is barbaric and was another democrat program to cull the amount of blacks being born. You can thank Margaret Sanger for that. With that said, it is like saying you did not have sex or you pulled out so you had an abortion argument. I don't buy it.
I'm not anti-contraception if the method doesn't kill a fertilized egg.
There are definitely some republicans on the wrong side of the abortion issue as well as other issues. Not sure what you mean about contraception. If you're talking about methods like an IUD that won't allow a fertilized egg (human being) to attach, that's the same thing as an abortion.
As for the rest of what you say, you clearly don't believe the Bible which is God's word to everyone. Please stop confusing people about what true christians believe. Better yet, go talk to your pastor and run your logic by him and show him the link I gave you.
My pastor and I have had very heated debates on it over the years. He has some crazy PHD in religious history as well as seminary. He has helped put a lot things into perspective. Such as:
What I will say is that I can agree to disagree and respect opinions on abortion, right to life etc. What isn't fair is that the Republican party think that they own the religious vote. As it just isn't the case in social service. Which just makes people who claim to be 'real christians' hypocritical.
Based on the video you sent, Christians should vote for a party that is going to further the most good. Abortion is just one of the several hallmarks of Christian faith. Take a look at conservatives track record though out history in social service.
They never flipped platforms. Every single racist democrat that was elected before that was elected after that as well.
Thurmond rejected the Klan. Robert Bird and others were still active.
The young people always vote more liberal. Then they grow up and get jobs and realize cause and effect. That is the nature of life. That is why liberals don't target middle aged people because emotional topics are just that.....emotional.
Nevada is a different deal. Oregon they are free. They are on trial in Nevada and they could win there too. What did the Bundy's burn down? Did I miss something. Did anyone get hurt with the Bundy situation? Do you realize the government under Obama has been buying up and declaring property the governments at a high rate?
I sent you one link that extensively details how, when and why the party flipped platforms. But here is an easier one to read:
"No one really knows where we're going"
I think everyone knows exactly where we are going, First day of a Trump presidency, illegal aliens start getting deported and obamacare gets dismantled, the papers are already being written up. Then, the corporate tax rates are going to be lowered and regulations are going to be lowered. Your taxes are going to be lowered by a couple bucks but you still won't be able to save enough for retirement. The rich, who paid less in taxes than their secretaries, are now going to save millions with their tax cuts! The protests (riots) will continue at each stage of "improvement" to our country, I'm pretty sure that most of the protesters did not even vote in the last election! Trump is going to build something BIGLY that everyone will go and want to see(heck, china has a wall that tourist visit) The Big news yesterday was that Trump ate a steak at a restaurant, this type of "news" will go on for four more years, you will not see him eating anymore tacos! Yes, you get all this, and we have Not even talked about NAFTA and trade wars. Does Not look like the national debt will be lowered with a Trump presidency And we will still have a trade deficit. I don't believe Trump will be elected for a second term, but I'm sure he could care less, believe me! One thing is for sure is that Nobody is going to believe the pollsters in the next election And the candidates will start campaigning in less than three years! Yippee!
For starters, you don't know the difference between Catholicism and Christianity.
Christianity is the religion, Catholicism is the denomination, just like Baptist, Protestant, Anglican etc.
Oh and before you start squealing, you don't get to define other peoples faith, if they describe themselves as Christian you don't get to exclude them.
The "Southern Strategy" that began in the 1970's was an effort by Nixon to get fair-minded people in the South to stop voting for Democrats who did not share their values and were discriminating against blacks. Georgia did not switch until 2004, and Louisiana was controlled by Democrats until the election of Republican Bobby Jindal, a person of color, as governor in 2007.
Timing may provide the greatest gap between the myth and the actual unfolding of events. Only in the 1980s did more white Southerners self-identify as Republicans than as Democrats, and only in the mid-1990s did Republicans win most Southern House seats and become competitive in most state legislatures. So if the GOP's strength in the South only recently reached its zenith, and if its appeal were primarily racial in nature, then the white Southern electorate (or at least most of it) would have to be as racist as ever. But surely one of the most important events in Southern political history is the long-term decline of racism among whites. The fact that these (and many other) books suggest otherwise shows that the myth is ultimately based on a demonization not of the GOP but of Southerners, who are indeed assumed to have Confederate flags in their hearts if not on their pickups. This view lends The Rise of Southern Republicans a schizophrenic nature: it charts numerous changes in the South, but its organizing categories are predicated on the unsustainable assumption that racial views remain intact.
What's more, the trend away from confident beliefs in white supremacy may have begun earlier than we often think. David Chappell, a historian of religion, argues that during the height of the civil rights struggle, segregationists were denied the crucial prop of religious legitimacy. Large numbers of pastors of diverse denominations concluded that there was no Biblical foundation for either segregation or white superiority. Although many pastors remained segregationist anyway, the official shift was startling: "Before the Supreme Court's [Brown v. Board] decision of 1954, the southern Presbyterians. . . and, shortly after the decision, the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) overwhelmingly passed resolutions supporting desegregation and calling on all to comply with it peacefully. . . . By 1958 all SBC seminaries accepted black applicants." With considerable understatement, Chappell notes that "people—even historians—are surprised to hear this." Billy Graham, the most prominent Southern preacher, was openly integrationist.
The point of all this is not to deny that Richard Nixon may have invited some nasty fellows into his political bed. The point is that the GOP finally became the region's dominant party in the least racist phase of the South's entire history, and it got that way by attracting most of its votes from the region's growing and confident communities—not its declining and fearful ones. The myth's shrillest proponents are as reluctant to admit this as they are to concede that most Republicans genuinely believe that a color-blind society lies down the road of individual choice and dynamic change, not down the road of state regulation and unequal treatment before the law. The truly tenacious prejudices here are the mythmakers'.
While I'm personally against abortion, I'm not sure enough in my views to enforce them on somebody carrying a deformed baby or somebody who is carrying a rapists baby.
Christianity is the religion, Catholicism is the denomination, just like Baptist, Protestant, Anglican etc.
Oh and before you start squealing, you don't get to define other peoples faith, if they describe themselves as Christian you don't get to exclude them.
They defined there own faith Darren. Tell me between the two, how do they believe they get to heaven? The answer absolutely defines the faith. They have completely two different methods for gaining eternal life.
10-4 good buddy, but you may want to read the above in that when ol' honest Abe was Republican at a time when they were also the "progressive" party. Adversely, the Dems were the "conservative" party. When trying to defend which party has championed for civil rights, there was a flip.
Progressive: (of a group, person, or idea) favoring or implementing social reform or new, liberal ideas.
Conservative: holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation, typically in relation to politics or religion.
Of those two, which one would apply to abolishing slavery?
Progressive and conservative are definitions compared to the status quo at the time of definition. It has nothing to do with the core believe systems. You are trying to use the definition political or religious momentum to describe groups values.
Last edited by deltahoosier; 11-16-2016 at 1:35 PM.
While I'm personally against abortion, I'm not sure enough in my views to enforce them on somebody carrying a deformed baby or somebody who is carrying a rapists baby.
While I feel some commonality for your feelings on the matter, those examples are less than 1% of the cases.
"No one really knows where we're going"
I think everyone knows exactly where we are going, First day of a Trump presidency, illegal aliens start getting deported and obamacare gets dismantled, the papers are already being written up. Then, the corporate tax rates are going to be lowered and regulations are going to be lowered. Your taxes are going to be lowered by a couple bucks but you still won't be able to save enough for retirement. The rich, who paid less in taxes than their secretaries, are now going to save millions with their tax cuts! The protests (riots) will continue at each stage of "improvement" to our country, I'm pretty sure that most of the protesters did not even vote in the last election! Trump is going to build something BIGLY that everyone will go and want to see(heck, china has a wall that tourist visit) The Big news yesterday was that Trump ate a steak at a restaurant, this type of "news" will go on for four more years, you will not see him eating anymore tacos! Yes, you get all this, and we have Not even talked about NAFTA and trade wars. Does Not look like the national debt will be lowered with a Trump presidency And we will still have a trade deficit. I don't believe Trump will be elected for a second term, but I'm sure he could care less, believe me! One thing is for sure is that Nobody is going to believe the pollsters in the next election And the candidates will start campaigning in less than three years! Yippee!
Did not believe the pollsters now. Nothing new to see.
They defined there own faith Darren. Tell me between the two, how do they believe they get to heaven? The answer absolutely defines the faith. They have completely two different methods for gaining eternal life.
My point is if a Catholic defines themselves as Christian you don't get to say they are not.
Most recently was the movie 'All the Way' with Bryan Cranston, that defines the actual moment they flipped.
FYI: When I was in that bracket, I was Republican. I crossed when I realized who the 47% were that republicans love to parade as non-tax payers.
Also, I don't look at political parties as tax brackets. We were extremely poor and always Republican. As you can plainly see if you simply look at the voting map:
1) The poor/ middle class areas of the country are voting republican and gaining every year. Only the largest of the cities (that have all the wealth) are voting democrat.
2) The highest crime areas are also voting democrat. This could be explained by the high density of people that attracts this behavior, but you don't see the killing per capita in fly over country.
3) The riots are continuously happening in democrat areas. What is it about democrat controlled cities that they can not stand up and put down riots? They like their cities burned to the ground?
My point is if a Catholic defines themselves as Christian you don't get to say they are not.
tomato/ tomAto. Most catholics I know call themselves catholic so there is that. They call themselves the catholic church while most christian churches call them selves christian churches. I have never seen a catholic church use the term christian church on their name plate. So I don't think I am the only one defining.
Christians believe that the belief in Christ and Christ alone is the way to heaven. End of story.
Catholic believes in the scales of justice and if you screw up there, you seem to have a voting block of mortals that can somehow overrule a deity to vote one into heaven. Go figure.....
tomato/ tomAto. Most catholics I know call themselves catholic so there is that. They call themselves the catholic church while most christian churches call them selves christian churches. I have never seen a catholic church use the term christian church on their name plate. So I don't think I am the only one defining.
Yes but once again, Christian is the family, Catholic is the subset. So if you are Catholic you are Christian as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier
Christians believe that the belief in Christ and Christ alone is the way to heaven. End of story.
That's what your sect believes, other sects in the family believe variations of the same theme.
How you can be so certain about something so ethereal is something I cannot relate to. IMO it is dangerous to define your belief structure with such certainty around something with a self supporting logic system. If it runs astray you can become zealot and start doing horrible **** to other humans so easily.
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