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Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-21-2019, 9:02 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
85% of what he posts is bogus since he came back from his hiatus. Not sure what happened. When caught in the lies the excuse is now "I'm not lying, I read it somewhere."
Nice try. You are just so far down the rabbit hole you would not know the truth if it hit you in the head. Steele testified that is where he got the information. Steele also testified that he did not know that it was not an actual CNN reporter.

Your political party has turned into True TV. One person on a show says something outrageous. Then a person on the other show reports on what the other person on the other show said. Then a third party reports on what the 2 shows said and not a single bit of it is grounded on fact except the first person said something. That is what we have here today and that is what the democrats have become.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-21-2019, 9:13 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
I love how you always attempt to change the past so it fits your narrative and gives you another reason to stand up for Trump. Trump started all of the nonsense by saying that McCain was not a hero during the 2016 campaign. I'm glad that a GOP politician actually stood up for himself and didn't just cower down to Trump to keep out of his Twitter crosshairs. Trump reaped what he sowed with McCain and he can pat himself on the back when McCain voted no. Just like he is reaping what he sowed with Pelosi.

Obama successfully defeated John McCain and not one time did he attempt to disparage him over his time as a POW.
Never said Trump was not child like, however I am not changing the past. Would we like to go back and look at some words that you and your friends said about McCain on this very board about McCain? You want to dig up some press clippings that the democrat press said about McCain? Did you vote for the guy? I did. According to you and your people McCain was not worthy of running a country and you gave all the reasons on why he was not qualified. Are you saying that a war hero with many years in congress at the highest levels was not more qualified than a community organizer with less than 1 year in congress to run this country? Is this the point where you admit that you have poor judgement? or that you don't look at facts and vote with emotion? I ask you these things because you seem to finally be letting your brain kick in then I realize that you again are only taking an emotional position because he is against someone you dislike.

I would say that McCain has carried himself with much more dignity than Trump ever will. With that said, McCain was trying to do Trump dirty just like all you people have been. Trump is a fighter. He always punches back. Would I like him to use a little more class in the way he does it. Sure. But remember this. I was not the one who tried to tell the world that McCain was a piss poor person and a racists like you guys did.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-21-2019, 9:31 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
in any case that there is a scarce resource, there will be limits. Is it different than (a) not having insurance at all so not getting the chance to be denied, or (b) having insurance that also has limits and denies coverage for particular procedures? Nope, it's precisely the same thing.
Ok. Then why are you being snarky over the actual fact that when you have finite funds that hard decisions will be made? You are the one who brought out "Death Panels" trying to mock the point and then turn around and agree with me.

The public does not want to admit this is what will be the case and because the government would now have that power and only the government, you would have ZERO places to turn after that. Government is there to be a foil to private party bad decisions or actions. You can not have a control loop if you peg the output to one rail.

This all turns into a moral question. How much is it worth to pay for someone elses A) horrible and sad genetic draw B) bad choices C) dumb luck? We already pay roughly 5 to 7% for 45 years of employment between the employee and employer contributions? That is there to pay for mainly end life care and currently has 50% of all healthcare costs with only 25% of the people. So who do you want paying for the other 50% of the costs (and that is only because people may not be going to the doctor because they don't have coverage to go down for everything. It may go higher)? The first group paid significant money for 45 years to get the basic benefits. Now you want people to be able to get a similar pool without the build up of money? If you and the employer pay that much for that long, how much to you want the public to pay now? I think they determined in California alone it would cost over a Trillion dollars for their madness. Right now we have corporations paying the bill. So basically you guys want another corporate give away.

We still are not really talking about the money in the county plans.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-21-2019, 9:35 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
The GOP loves the military, unless they are not republicans. Some of the tactics they use show they are scumbags. The Swift Boat group lied their asses off about John Kerry to smear his name and his service in Vietnam. Trump pulled the same stuff with John McCain and other members of the military. They are the most unpatriotic POS's that roam this country. At least, if the MAGA-Civil War ever comes to fruition, we have little to worry about with the pussies sporting their red hats. They will be too chicken***** to do anything.
I am pretty sure you are wrong. That is why your communist party is at every event trying to take the guns away from the public. Besides, you communists may want to do something but your men and women would be backed up trying to figure out which bathroom to use and the war would be over.

Then heaven forbid that you don't get gender neutral knives and slingshots (because you guys always do what your leader want and turned in your guns). I can see it now. We will defeat the Americans but first.......dag gone it. Abdul and Jenny can not figure out which bathroom again. Hey Miss Margeret, I don't care that the knife has a mans name on it. Pick it up and form up outside the Target at 5. What do you mean we have to protest first? For what? Your feelings? I used a non binary reference to you?

Last edited by DeltaHoosier; 03-21-2019 at 9:42 AM.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-21-2019, 11:00 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Ok. Then why are you being snarky over the actual fact that when you have finite funds that hard decisions will be made? You are the one who brought out "Death Panels" trying to mock the point and then turn around and agree with me.

The public does not want to admit this is what will be the case and because the government would now have that power and only the government, you would have ZERO places to turn after that. Government is there to be a foil to private party bad decisions or actions. You can not have a control loop if you peg the output to one rail.
.

LOL I am MOCKING because people are already being denied on the basis of ability to pay. Everyone knows this.

Are you suggesting that if there is a minimum level of guaranteed service for everyone (let’s call it Medicare for all) that private pay fee for service healthcare would become unavailable? I really doubt it. That’s like saying universal education will put private schools out of business, or that police have killed the private security industry.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       03-21-2019, 11:52 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
The CNN chat room stuff is not bogus.
False.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump–Russia_dossier
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-21-2019, 1:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Are you really trying to argue by posting a wiki link that has not been updated since 2018?

I am not sure you are aware of this but they have released testimony from Steele on this topic just recently.

https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/stat...86155550523392

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/16/polit..._source=twCNNp

Steele says he used unverified information to support details about web company in dossier

(CNN)A newly released snippet of a deposition with the ex-British spy behind the Trump-Russia dossier describes some of the steps he took to verify information he collected for it in 2016, including pulling from a user-generated citizen journalism initiative by CNN, iReport, which no longer operates.
Christopher Steele admitted during a lawsuit deposition that he used internet searches and unverified information to support details he had gathered about a web company mentioned in the dossier, according to select pages of his deposition transcript that a federal court unsealed this week.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       03-21-2019, 1:46 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
I am not sure you are aware of this but they have released testimony from Steele on this topic just recently.
Yes, I'm aware. I read the whole testimony from Steele at the hearings. The chat room stuff only relates to webzilla and only part of the research on them:
"Val Gurvits, an attorney for Gubarev, XBT and Webzilla, acknowledged on Saturday that Steele could not answer questions during the deposition about what he did to verify the parts of the dossier unrelated to them. But Steele also wouldn't describe what else he did to verify the dossier's information, or where he got it from, because of the court-ordered parameters of the interview.
"I believe the only step I can describe within the bounds of the order is what we could call an open source search," Steele said about his efforts to check details about the web companies. "Other efforts to verify relate to sources or sources and, therefore, are not allowed under the terms of the order."

Aka nothingburger
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       03-21-2019, 1:53 PM Reply   
Quote:
Technically we lost that war. If you want to go that route then a military man should not defy the president considering he is the commander and chief. Or does that part run out when it is political rivals. Not sure which way this all goes.
I was not aware that you had to win a war in order to have heros. McCain is an American War Hero. President Bonespurs is a draft dodger and a cheat. A military man does what is right, not blindly follow. Its how you separate right from wrong. McCain and bonespur were never political rivals they are both republicans and never ran in an election opposing each other. McCain choose Country over Party, its what true heros do. I didnt agree with McCain politically but I know better than to pick on a dead war hero. Guess Pres Bonespurs is too dumb.

Quote:
Hate to tell you bud. Your 4 cars, house and a boat are not part of the socialist dream. You need to turn those in ASAP. Sounds like me you want to be a baller on a budget. You want all your toys but want other people to take care of you. From what I am reading you can absolutely afford your insurance. You sound like a perfect democrat. Democrats will not get it done either and there is nothing they can do to get it done unless they want to collapse our country and turn the whole country into the have and have-nots like california. Most of the people in california only have your toys due to generational wealth or took advantage of the fake real estate market where union guys would get paid under the table and were allowed to get declared income loans to buy multiple properties. Don't get me wrong, it take hard work just the same in cases, but you have a leg up on the rest of the country for it. You statistically would not have the things you do in the rest of the country. You would put out the same work without the same reward. With that said, you also do not have the income and wealth disparity in the rest of the country. Housing there is a place to live, not a money maker (for the most part).
You assume I just write checks for my stuff. I build them. None of my stuff was purchased or paid for from Generational wealth. My dad charged me $800 bucks to sell me his 12 year old car when I was in HS. I didnt pay for it with money grandma gave me either, I had a job. I would have my "stuff" no matter where I lived. I never borrowed a penny during the real estate bubble, nor did I default on a loan ever. Im also not a socialist nor do I have socialist dreams. I called out US healthcare for back to back 24+% increases, thats not crying about balling on a budget. That is a F'ed up system caused by the current govt killing Obama care and replacing it with not a damn thing while giving insurance companies billion dollar tax benefits. I do agree with you that housing should not be a money maker, but as it works out in CA it is.

As far as Steele, from what I read is different that what you type. I read he verified info on the site, he did not say that is where he got the info.
Here it is. BTW, the Russian lost his suit against Buzzfeed. Quit playing like you are the new dumber Devin Nunez.

Steele made the revelation during testimony last year in a case where Russian entrepreneur Aleksej Gubarev, a prominent figure in the dossier, had sued BuzzFeed for libel, Fox News reported. BuzzFeed was the first news outlet to publish Steele’s unverified dossier in full.

Christopher Steele
According to a newly released transcript of the deposition, Steele was asked how he verified allegations about Gubarev’s companies Webzilla and XBT Holdings and whether he found “anything of relevance concerning Webzilla.”
“We did. It was an article I have got here which was posted on July 28, 2009, on something called CNN iReport,” Steele testified.
CNN iReport states that it is a “user-generated site” and warns that “the stories submitted by users are not edited, fact-checked or screened before they post.” Though archives of CNN iReport remain accessible online, the site appears to be no longer active.
Asked if he understood how the CNN website actually worked, Steele testified: “I do not have any particular knowledge of that” and noted he didn’t understand at the time that the site has “no connection to any CNN reporters.”
“Do you understand that CNN iReports are or were nothing more than any random individuals’ assertions on the Internet?” an examiner asked Steele.
He replied: “No, I obviously presume that if it is on a CNN site that it may has [sic] some kind of CNN status. Albeit that it may be an independent person posting on the site.”
CNN iReport specifically notes that none of the users who submit content can be described as working for CNN.
“Being an iReport.com user and creating and uploading content to iReport.com does not mean that you work for CNN, and you should never represent yourself as working for CNN,” the site’s FAQ section read.
In the dossier, Steele alleged that Gubarev’s companies “used botnets and porn traffic to transmit viruses, plant bugs, steal data and conduct ‘alerting operations’ against the Democratic Party leadership” and that Gubarev himself played a “significant” part in the operation while “under duress” from the Russian security agency FSB.

"Complete and total vindication", right?
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       03-21-2019, 2:02 PM Reply   
First you said...
Quote:
I am still looking for a response from you guys on the dossier being based on a CNN chat room/ opinion board. Any comments to that. 2 years of your guys lifes wasted because of a wake world chat room and political enemies wanting to discredit the president. Time to pay the piper.
Then moved the goalpost....
Quote:
Steele says he used unverified information to support details about web company in dossier
First the dossier is BASED on a cnn chatroom...
Next Steele was verifying info....
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-21-2019, 3:59 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Yes, I'm aware. I read the whole testimony from Steele at the hearings. The chat room stuff only relates to webzilla and only part of the research on them:
"Val Gurvits, an attorney for Gubarev, XBT and Webzilla, acknowledged on Saturday that Steele could not answer questions during the deposition about what he did to verify the parts of the dossier unrelated to them. But Steele also wouldn't describe what else he did to verify the dossier's information, or where he got it from, because of the court-ordered parameters of the interview.
"I believe the only step I can describe within the bounds of the order is what we could call an open source search," Steele said about his efforts to check details about the web companies. "Other efforts to verify relate to sources or sources and, therefore, are not allowed under the terms of the order."

Aka nothingburger
You mean nothingburger like the whole Mueller investigation? Which Ironically was fueled by a report from a (and I cannot make this up) foreign agent.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-21-2019, 4:01 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
First you said...


Then moved the goalpost....


First the dossier is BASED on a cnn chatroom...
Next Steele was verifying info....
Please try and keep up. He used chat room information as part of the verification.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-21-2019, 4:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
I was not aware that you had to win a war in order to have heros. McCain is an American War Hero. President Bonespurs is a draft dodger and a cheat. A military man does what is right, not blindly follow. Its how you separate right from wrong. McCain and bonespur were never political rivals they are both republicans and never ran in an election opposing each other. McCain choose Country over Party, its what true heros do. I didnt agree with McCain politically but I know better than to pick on a dead war hero. Guess Pres Bonespurs is too dumb.



You assume I just write checks for my stuff. I build them. None of my stuff was purchased or paid for from Generational wealth. My dad charged me $800 bucks to sell me his 12 year old car when I was in HS. I didnt pay for it with money grandma gave me either, I had a job. I would have my "stuff" no matter where I lived. I never borrowed a penny during the real estate bubble, nor did I default on a loan ever. Im also not a socialist nor do I have socialist dreams. I called out US healthcare for back to back 24+% increases, thats not crying about balling on a budget. That is a F'ed up system caused by the current govt killing Obama care and replacing it with not a damn thing while giving insurance companies billion dollar tax benefits. I do agree with you that housing should not be a money maker, but as it works out in CA it is.

As far as Steele, from what I read is different that what you type. I read he verified info on the site, he did not say that is where he got the info.
Here it is. BTW, the Russian lost his suit against Buzzfeed. Quit playing like you are the new dumber Devin Nunez.

Steele made the revelation during testimony last year in a case where Russian entrepreneur Aleksej Gubarev, a prominent figure in the dossier, had sued BuzzFeed for libel, Fox News reported. BuzzFeed was the first news outlet to publish Steele’s unverified dossier in full.

Christopher Steele
According to a newly released transcript of the deposition, Steele was asked how he verified allegations about Gubarev’s companies Webzilla and XBT Holdings and whether he found “anything of relevance concerning Webzilla.”
“We did. It was an article I have got here which was posted on July 28, 2009, on something called CNN iReport,” Steele testified.
CNN iReport states that it is a “user-generated site” and warns that “the stories submitted by users are not edited, fact-checked or screened before they post.” Though archives of CNN iReport remain accessible online, the site appears to be no longer active.
Asked if he understood how the CNN website actually worked, Steele testified: “I do not have any particular knowledge of that” and noted he didn’t understand at the time that the site has “no connection to any CNN reporters.”
“Do you understand that CNN iReports are or were nothing more than any random individuals’ assertions on the Internet?” an examiner asked Steele.
He replied: “No, I obviously presume that if it is on a CNN site that it may has [sic] some kind of CNN status. Albeit that it may be an independent person posting on the site.”
CNN iReport specifically notes that none of the users who submit content can be described as working for CNN.
“Being an iReport.com user and creating and uploading content to iReport.com does not mean that you work for CNN, and you should never represent yourself as working for CNN,” the site’s FAQ section read.
In the dossier, Steele alleged that Gubarev’s companies “used botnets and porn traffic to transmit viruses, plant bugs, steal data and conduct ‘alerting operations’ against the Democratic Party leadership” and that Gubarev himself played a “significant” part in the operation while “under duress” from the Russian security agency FSB.

"Complete and total vindication", right?
You mentioned winning the war in which McCain was a hero. Maybe that was not your intent, however I am pointing out we lost that war. As far a McCain. He did his duty. Many democrats called him a baby killer and spit on people like him so I find it ironic that democrats are now holding his water. They also called him a racists because someone in his family was in the Klan and so on. If you want to get brass tax he was an entitled person. Many rich peoples kids got to fly planes if they had the basic qualifications. The rich got to be officers at a much higher rate than poor people due to the ability to attend college then a path into the military was the traditional path for a person of his stature to get into national politics. Back in his day, you did not become president if you did not serve the military. You can bag on Trump. I think he is wrong for his war on McCain but McCain is a trader to the working people of this country for his vote on Obamacare.

On your healthcare rant. Healthcare is jumping up because of Obamacare. That was the whole point of it. It was designed as a poison pill. The guy who designed it admitted as such as it was designed to kill the system so they can have the pressure for single payer. When you have a system that people use as a service plan and then you add in that you can not reject anyone and you have to keep them on the system as working adults, the cost is going to go up. The costs are only going up based on usage and salaries. I wonder if any of you are complaining now that it costs $40 for a pizza? Middle class wages are not going up but the people who are working traditional part time jobs wages are going up.

I am not saying you did not work for what you have but your lifestyle is against the socialist dream. You have more than your neighbor so to speak so you would be one who would get income/ wealth leveled. Just remember. All the democrat stories end with you paying more. You may be able to afford your toys. Me, I used to have toys too until I was wage compressed and the socialist kept raising the rates to keep them. Just nickle and dime you to death until you have to sell.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       03-21-2019, 5:23 PM Reply   
You even cheat when you quote... This is the quote.
First you said...
Quote:
I am still looking for a response from you guys on the dossier being based on a CNN chat room/ opinion board. Any comments to that. 2 years of your guys lifes wasted because of a wake world chat room and political enemies wanting to discredit the president. Time to pay the piper.
Then moved the goalpost....
Quote:
Steele says he used unverified information to support details about web company in dossier
First the dossier is BASED on a cnn chatroom...
Next Steele was verifying info....

When I say ""winning" im punking bonespur draft dodger because he predicted the repubs would win so much they would get tired of winning.
Point is even if I disagree personally, politically,...whatever, I dont make fun of dead heros who cant defend themselves. Its not a fair fight, just like bonespur draft dodger likes it.
So, McCain was a traitor for voting no on Trumpcare? Please, tell me about how Trumpcare was going to work for the American people.
Healthcare is going up because the GOP has gutted obamacare and replaced it with absolutely nothing. This is their masterplan. Get rid of Obamacare to prove how bad it is and when you kick the legs out you cant stand up. What have the GOP done? proposed? planned? Zero. When you reduce the number of people, less people pay more. Im convinced the guy designed Obamacare as a poison pill just as Steele BASED his dossier on cnn chat rooms. $40 pizza sucks but the Govt says inflation is still under 2% so no rate change.
You like lists, here is one. Best countries to live in. Guess how their healthcare works.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-cou...erall-rankings
Im not a socialist, I dont have socialist dreams. I am a fiscal conservative.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       03-21-2019, 6:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Never said Trump was not child like, however I am not changing the past. Would we like to go back and look at some words that you and your friends said about McCain on this very board about McCain? You want to dig up some press clippings that the democrat press said about McCain? Did you vote for the guy? I did. According to you and your people McCain was not worthy of running a country and you gave all the reasons on why he was not qualified. Are you saying that a war hero with many years in congress at the highest levels was not more qualified than a community organizer with less than 1 year in congress to run this country? Is this the point where you admit that you have poor judgement? or that you don't look at facts and vote with emotion? I ask you these things because you seem to finally be letting your brain kick in then I realize that you again are only taking an emotional position because he is against someone you dislike.

I would say that McCain has carried himself with much more dignity than Trump ever will. With that said, McCain was trying to do Trump dirty just like all you people have been. Trump is a fighter. He always punches back. Would I like him to use a little more class in the way he does it. Sure. But remember this. I was not the one who tried to tell the world that McCain was a piss poor person and a racists like you guys did.
Dude, the second Sarah Palin was selected as his running mate was when any chance of me voting for McCain completely went out the window. And the thing is, he didn't even want her as his VP, he wanted Lieberman. I would have certainly have voted for McCain over Al Gore in 2000.

Trump may be a "fighter", but he has zero class. There is nothing positive that can come from him continuing to insult John McCain. The man is gone, and nothing Trump spews is going to change that Senator McCain will always be remembered as a POW and War Hero and a pretty good senator.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       03-21-2019, 10:21 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
You mean nothingburger like the whole Mueller investigation? Which Ironically was fueled by a report from a (and I cannot make this up) foreign agent.
The investigation that has resulted in dozens of indictments for federal crimes, and at least eight guilty pleas or convictions. The investigation which isn't compete yet and the report which hasn't been released yet? No, I think it's a different type of nothingburger to be honest.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       03-22-2019, 3:33 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
The investigation that has resulted in dozens of indictments for federal crimes, and at least eight guilty pleas or convictions. The investigation which isn't compete yet and the report which hasn't been released yet? No, I think it's a different type of nothingburger to be honest.
Delta has convinced himself that any American would face charges if they were investigated by Mueller. You know, those evil "perjury traps" and all of that. It's the biggest bunch of BS I have ever heard.

That is the modern-day Trumpster. They insist that you research all over the universe to find information they aren't going to believe when you find it, if in any way, it casts a negative light on Donald Trump.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-22-2019, 8:18 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
You even cheat when you quote... This is the quote.
First you said...
Quote:
I am still looking for a response from you guys on the dossier being based on a CNN chat room/ opinion board. Any comments to that. 2 years of your guys lifes wasted because of a wake world chat room and political enemies wanting to discredit the president. Time to pay the piper.
Then moved the goalpost....
Quote:
Steele says he used unverified information to support details about web company in dossier
First the dossier is BASED on a cnn chatroom...
Next Steele was verifying info....

When I say ""winning" im punking bonespur draft dodger because he predicted the repubs would win so much they would get tired of winning.
Point is even if I disagree personally, politically,...whatever, I dont make fun of dead heros who cant defend themselves. Its not a fair fight, just like bonespur draft dodger likes it.
So, McCain was a traitor for voting no on Trumpcare? Please, tell me about how Trumpcare was going to work for the American people.
Healthcare is going up because the GOP has gutted obamacare and replaced it with absolutely nothing. This is their masterplan. Get rid of Obamacare to prove how bad it is and when you kick the legs out you cant stand up. What have the GOP done? proposed? planned? Zero. When you reduce the number of people, less people pay more. Im convinced the guy designed Obamacare as a poison pill just as Steele BASED his dossier on cnn chat rooms. $40 pizza sucks but the Govt says inflation is still under 2% so no rate change.
You like lists, here is one. Best countries to live in. Guess how their healthcare works.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-cou...erall-rankings
Im not a socialist, I dont have socialist dreams. I am a fiscal conservative.
Obamacare is nothing but mandates and poor people taxes. Sounds to me the tax is going to those who can afford it. Sounds like you got a 24% and an additional 25% bill right? What are you complaining about. The system is working as designed. The people in your socialized insurance plan (and that is exactly what it is) are using your insurance. The mandates are also that insurance can not reject anyone and they have to leave adults on the service plan until age 26. Throwing that your socialized insurance plan is mandated to pay for people who just happen to shack up and give themselves a label as domestic partners. You also want the strictest of safety standards and are ready to sue at a drop of a hat. That is a lot of additional mandates and now people like you are complaining about the price going up? Sounds to me like you want something for nothing.

Again, why are you complaining? by definition you are paying the same as a tax for your coverage. I don't get your point. You pay 3% (employee and employer) of your pay for medicare for life to get what statistically is 13 years worth of coverage (average life of a US male is 78 years old). That 13 years of coverage is often quoted as being less than optimal coverage with few doctors willing to deal with it. How much do you think it is going to cost you to have 65 years of coverage out of your paycheck?

Lets do a simple first order approximation for someone making $100,000 a year each year until age 65 minus from age 20 in which many join the work force and a nice easy number. 45 years of working.$4.5million earned. $135,000 paid in. Not sure how much the government puts in however statistically with just this contribution you are in for roughly $10,384 a year for anywhere in the country per person. This is not broken up for kids or your wife. This is just you. Wife makes your family contribution $20,769 a year for your contribution. Lets add in the kids because they are not contributing until my selected age of 20. 2 kids, that is another 20,769 a year. That adds up to $41,538 a year for your family of 2.

Now obviously not everyone makes $100,000 a year. Many of you make way more than that. You know what. You have convinced me. I think we should go to a single payer government system so you have to pay your fair share. I would love for you to pay $40,000 a year for your insurance.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-22-2019, 8:24 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Dude, the second Sarah Palin was selected as his running mate was when any chance of me voting for McCain completely went out the window. And the thing is, he didn't even want her as his VP, he wanted Lieberman. I would have certainly have voted for McCain over Al Gore in 2000.

Trump may be a "fighter", but he has zero class. There is nothing positive that can come from him continuing to insult John McCain. The man is gone, and nothing Trump spews is going to change that Senator McCain will always be remembered as a POW and War Hero and a pretty good senator.
So you are saying that Palin who was an actual governor of a state had less qualifications than a single term congressman who had zero executive experience? Or was it because she was a woman. I know you democrats would love to have a woman as VP or President but apparently it has to be a woman who supports murdering babies for it to be the right woman.

I absolutely agree with you that Trump does not have class. I agree with you on McCain. I believe McCain let his pride get in the way of his dealing with Trump and made a horrible choice in voting at the end.

On Trump. He was not my guy. However your democrat press should not have pushed him to the front in coverage thinking he would be an easy win for Hillary and you need to stop putting up candidates that hate America and want to sell our rights to the UN. I see what they have doing in California and I don't want that for America. I will never pull the lever for American last politicians.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-22-2019, 8:29 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
The investigation that has resulted in dozens of indictments for federal crimes, and at least eight guilty pleas or convictions. The investigation which isn't compete yet and the report which hasn't been released yet? No, I think it's a different type of nothingburger to be honest.
I can pull everyone in this chat room into an investigation and get a conviction on a few people for what ever reason. Indictments are not convictions and none of them have been about collusion. Some of the things are federal crimes but any other time in the world would be considered a clerical error like registering as a foreign agent. Sounds like Clinton's main man is getting indicted on that too. You guys were on here like gang busters about Trump and Russia. Now it is about convictions of various sorts. Like I said, you can go into any bar, business and you name it and if someone wants you in jail, all they have to do is dig a little and worst case drag you in for a few days of questioning and twist the knife and they will have what they need. There is a whole history of this behavior most notable against the minority community, so convictions on other matters do not surprise me.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-22-2019, 8:38 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Obamacare is nothing but mandates and poor people taxes. Sounds to me the tax is going to those who can afford it. Sounds like you got a 24% and an additional 25% bill right? What are you complaining about. The system is working as designed. The people in your socialized insurance plan (and that is exactly what it is) are using your insurance. The mandates are also that insurance can not reject anyone and they have to leave adults on the service plan until age 26. Throwing that your socialized insurance plan is mandated to pay for people who just happen to shack up and give themselves a label as domestic partners. You also want the strictest of safety standards and are ready to sue at a drop of a hat. That is a lot of additional mandates and now people like you are complaining about the price going up? Sounds to me like you want something for nothing.



Again, why are you complaining? by definition you are paying the same as a tax for your coverage. I don't get your point. You pay 3% (employee and employer) of your pay for medicare for life to get what statistically is 13 years worth of coverage (average life of a US male is 78 years old). That 13 years of coverage is often quoted as being less than optimal coverage with few doctors willing to deal with it. How much do you think it is going to cost you to have 65 years of coverage out of your paycheck?

Delta it’s actually 17 years. For folks who make it to 65, the avg life expectancy is 82. At birth it’s 78, but for those who make it to 65, you get to live a little longer (I guess we have weeded our the really weak by then).

Also remember that the elderly far and away consume the most services. If we cover everyone the average cost per covered life will go down significantly (same idea as forcing the young to be covered via the individual mandate under Obamacare). Of course now that we’ve effectively killed the individual mandate, costs go up. Duh.

Now you are right that even though the cost per life goes down if the number of lives goes up by 6x it’s still going to cost way more. The question just becomes whether the resulting individual healthcare savings will offset the increased tax burden.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-22-2019, 8:39 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Delta has convinced himself that any American would face charges if they were investigated by Mueller. You know, those evil "perjury traps" and all of that. It's the biggest bunch of BS I have ever heard.

That is the modern-day Trumpster. They insist that you research all over the universe to find information they aren't going to believe when you find it, if in any way, it casts a negative light on Donald Trump.
Real easy to make accusations from the comfort you your living room. I have seen the practice happen. It happened to me. I got 6 months probation and community service for being out after midnight as a teen. Curfue violation they called it and I was bullied into not fighting it by the authorities saying they would push for getting me removed from my home and things like that. I was a honor roll student on the academic plan and played multiple sports. I know another person it happened to for a drug conviction where he was pestered at a party by an informant to drive him down to a place to get drugs. The person had no intentions of leaving to do any such thing until this person who they knew was constantly bugging them to take them. The person did 3 years for it, the informant got props. So yes, I absolutely believe that you could be brought in and made to confess to something especially if you don't have the means to fight it.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-22-2019, 8:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Delta it’s actually 17 years. For folks who make it to 65, the avg life expectancy is 82. At birth it’s 78, but for those who make it to 65, you get to live a little longer (I guess we have weeded our the really weak by then).

Also remember that the elderly far and away consume the most services. If we cover everyone the average cost per covered life will go down significantly (same idea as forcing the young to be covered via the individual mandate under Obamacare). Of course now that we’ve effectively killed the individual mandate, costs go up. Duh.

Now you are right that even though the cost per life goes down if the number of lives goes up by 6x it’s still going to cost way more. The question just becomes whether the resulting individual healthcare savings will offset the increased tax burden.
Ha ha yes. Ok. 7,941 a year in benefits. 15,882 a year for your family and 31,764 for the first 20 years. Still want you guys to pay your share.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-22-2019, 8:42 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Ha ha yes. Ok. 7,941 a year in benefits. 15,882 a year for your family and 31,764 for the first 20 years. Still want you guys to pay your share.


But I also get to keep what I currently pay (individually and as a business expense) for health insurance, right?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-22-2019, 8:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Delta it’s actually 17 years. For folks who make it to 65, the avg life expectancy is 82. At birth it’s 78, but for those who make it to 65, you get to live a little longer (I guess we have weeded our the really weak by then).

Also remember that the elderly far and away consume the most services. If we cover everyone the average cost per covered life will go down significantly (same idea as forcing the young to be covered via the individual mandate under Obamacare). Of course now that we’ve effectively killed the individual mandate, costs go up. Duh.

Now you are right that even though the cost per life goes down if the number of lives goes up by 6x it’s still going to cost way more. The question just becomes whether the resulting individual healthcare savings will offset the increased tax burden.
That is why it is a first order approximation. The elderly consume 50% of the medical spending, however they also are pushed into much less services and are not having children. With that said statistically almost every single elderly person will use the healthcare, however every elderly person should be covered and thus going to use it. Every young person does not have insurance and not every young person uses do to the cost. I say if every young person has insurance then you are more likely to see the percentage of services consumed move away from 50% toward the younger.

Getting rid of the individual mandate did not change a thing because the people who could not afford it still did not pay it. if you already had insurance, you did not have to pay it. Individual mandate did not change a thing. If anything, it put more people into the market to use the services. With more money in the market, doctors are going to raise their prices to capture the extra money just like any good business would do.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-22-2019, 8:52 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
But I also get to keep what I currently pay (individually and as a business expense) for health insurance, right?
Not sure that is how the socialized medical works. You would still have to pay your 3% medical costs and if you wanted private insurance, you would have to pay additional for that. That is the way it works in Germany from what I understand. If you are doing it for the government, then you don't get out of it.

Are you saying for your business that this would be less out of your pocket than as a individual?

You also realize that cost would come at a reduced services and longer wait times as well.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-22-2019, 8:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
That is why it is a first order approximation. The elderly consume 50% of the medical spending, however they also are pushed into much less services and are not having children. With that said statistically almost every single elderly person will use the healthcare, however every elderly person should be covered and thus going to use it. Every young person does not have insurance and not every young person uses do to the cost. I say if every young person has insurance then you are more likely to see the percentage of services consumed move away from 50% toward the younger.



Getting rid of the individual mandate did not change a thing because the people who could not afford it still did not pay it. if you already had insurance, you did not have to pay it. Individual mandate did not change a thing. If anything, it put more people into the market to use the services. With more money in the market, doctors are going to raise their prices to capture the extra money just like any good business would do.


Which is another win for Medicare, right, since it pays the worst? If you can cram down cost control via a single payer then don’t we also get control of medical expense inflation?
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-22-2019, 8:54 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Not sure that is how the socialized medical works. You would still have to pay your 3% medical costs and if you wanted private insurance, you would have to pay additional for that. That is the way it works in Germany from what I understand. If you are doing it for the government, then you don't get out of it.



Are you saying for your business that this would be less out of your pocket than as a individual?


If everyone has Medicare, why do I need to buy my employees insurance at all?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-22-2019, 8:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Which is another win for Medicare, right, since it pays the worst? If you can cram down cost control via a single payer then don’t we also get control of medical expense inflation?
Is it a win? Medicare is easy. You only pay until the person dies. End of life expenses are fairly well known and there is a long list of exclusions. That is why the well to do try and supliment with private insurances still because it is a horrible system with fewer service providers and longer wait times.

I don't believe it would cap anything until in private or state sponsored because the more you use the insurance, the more it costs. Only way you cap costs is tell a hospital that they are not allowed to upgrade equipment which they need to recoup costs from. People can only use such and such lifetime on their plan. Other than that, there is no controlling inflation. What many companies are doing right now is making employees pay more into the higher cost plans and raising the deductibles enough to make people think about just casually going down to the doctor.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-22-2019, 9:02 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
If everyone has Medicare, why do I need to buy my employees insurance at all?
You would not need to as an employers and that is my whole rub. The only people I hear wanting to get rid of medical insurance is business owners. like I said, it is closer to a corporate give away than anything. Unfortunately, you own a business. You are doing so because you want to get ahead. In a socialistic environment, you are not supposed to get ahead. You are supposed to be the same. One could argue that the only reason that you are able to do so is because you are trying to sell a product to the workers who are propping you up so why should the workers take the brunt of you wanting to exploit their dollars?

Also, what you do not pay as insurance costs would more than likely be pulled out of you in wages to make up for it.

Last edited by DeltaHoosier; 03-22-2019 at 9:12 AM.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-22-2019, 9:04 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Is it a win? Medicare is easy. You only pay until the person dies. End of life expenses are fairly well known and there is a long list of exclusions. That is why the well to do try and supliment with private insurances still because it is a horrible system with fewer service providers and longer wait times.



I don't believe it would cap anything until in private or state sponsored because the more you use the insurance, the more it costs. Only way you cap costs is tell a hospital that they are not allowed to upgrade equipment which they need to recoup costs from. People can only use such and such lifetime on their plan. Other than that, there is no controlling inflation. What many companies are doing right now is making employees pay more into the higher cost plans and raising the deductibles enough to make people think about just casually going down to the doctor.


Delta I am saying that if you go your primary care doc, how much money ends up in that docs pocket depends on the rate your doc has negotiated with the ins co (assuming you have insurance). For instance, my recent labs were billed at $500 but after adjustment per the negotiated rates with my ins co the lab actually billed $13. $487 discount vs the uncovered guy off of the street.

Now my insurer actually paid none of that. The $13 is my responsibility till I hit the deductible.

What I am saying is that Medicare’s negotiated rates are the most aggressive, typically paying LESS than insurance. That’s the win for cost control.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-22-2019, 9:06 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
You would not need to as an employers and that is my whole rub. The only people I hear wanting to get rid of medical insurance is business owners. like I said, it is closer to a corporate give away than anything. Unfortunately, you own a business. You are doing so because you want to get ahead. In a socialistic environment, you are not supposed to get ahead. You are supposed to be the same. One could argue that the only reason that you are able to do so is because you are trying to sell a product to the workers who are propping you up so why should the workers take the brunt of you wanting to exploit their dollars?


So you are saying in this case socialism is good for business AND results in universal coverage? I thought socialism was supposed to kill entrepreneurs and make everyone lazy?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-22-2019, 9:15 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
So you are saying in this case socialism is good for business AND results in universal coverage? I thought socialism was supposed to kill entrepreneurs and make everyone lazy?
It does. I as someone with almost $30,00 less in my pocket, will not be buying your product. I will only by what is necessary to live. Cost controls always cause inflation. Proven fact. Only reason Europe medical is not spiraling out of control is they can get cheap medicines from US manufacturers and the people pay the education of the doctors and nurses so they control their pay scale.. Socialism/ Communism works for the chinese government because the get huge profits from America and pay their people pennies a day.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-22-2019, 9:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
It does. I as someone with almost $30,00 less in my pocket, will not be buying your product. I will only by what is necessary to live. Cost controls always cause inflation. Proven fact. Only reason Europe is not spiraling out of control is they can get cheap medicines from US manufacturers. Socialism/ Communism works for the chinese government because the get huge profits from America and pay their people pennies a day.

Really? How much have your education, police, and fire costs grown?

Maybe we should go to a competitive all mercenary military?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-22-2019, 9:21 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Delta I am saying that if you go your primary care doc, how much money ends up in that docs pocket depends on the rate your doc has negotiated with the ins co (assuming you have insurance). For instance, my recent labs were billed at $500 but after adjustment per the negotiated rates with my ins co the lab actually billed $13. $487 discount vs the uncovered guy off of the street.

Now my insurer actually paid none of that. The $13 is my responsibility till I hit the deductible.

What I am saying is that Medicare’s negotiated rates are the most aggressive, typically paying LESS than insurance. That’s the win for cost control.
The only reason they can do that is because A) medicare is a very small portion of their business B) they recoup the expenses from other means like those mentioned other customers. There is no such thing as a free lunch. If you have expenses: labor, taxes, infastructure, profit margin; you have to hit a certain amount of gross to make it even worth keeping the doors open. If the government mandates such and such, then you have to make up the difference else where. If you can not make up the difference, then you go out of business. If everyone is in the same bargaining pool, you would not be able to get a sweetheart deal. That is why few doctors take medicare and they do it as a service not as a profit motivator.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-22-2019, 9:23 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
The only reason they can do that is because A) medicare is a very small portion of their business B) they recoup the expenses from other means like those mentioned other customers. There is no such thing as a free lunch. If you have expenses: labor, taxes, infastructure, profit margin; you have to hit a certain amount of gross to make it even worth keeping the doors open. If the government mandates such and such, then you have to make up the difference else where. If you can not make up the difference, then you go out of business. If everyone is in the same bargaining pool, you would not be able to get a sweetheart deal. That is why few doctors take medicare and they do it as a service not as a profit motivator.

And so you think all doctors are going to quit doctoring and go do what?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-22-2019, 9:24 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Really? How much have your education, police, and fire costs grown?

Maybe we should go to a competitive all mercenary military?
Those expenses have gone crazy high. Cops in the city are making well over $100,000 a year for starting and they retire at 50 if they want as well as get 50% retirement if their are injured due to being safety. Fire is about the same. Education is unaffordable by almost all and has to be supplimented by printing money at the federal level
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-22-2019, 9:27 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Those expenses have gone crazy high. Cops in the city are making well over $100,000 a year for starting and they retire at 50 if they want as well as get 50% retirement if their are injured due to being safety. Fire is about the same. Education is unaffordable by almost all and has to be supplimented by printing money at the federal level

So you are arguing that we should disband the police and fire delta as a cost saving measure? Allowing citizens to “go bare” with no protection, or to buy into their private for profit police or fire coop of choice and we will all be better off and reap the cost savings?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-22-2019, 9:27 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
And so you think all doctors are going to quit doctoring and go do what?
You avoided the point. You know how a business operates. What would you force them to do with a few hundred grand in school loans and a crap load of equipment and a payroll to meet as well as insurance to pay?

The ones who are just in it for the continued money would retire. The ones in mid life would be screwed and you would not get another medical student into the system. They would take their talents elsewhere.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-22-2019, 9:30 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
You avoided the point. You know how a business operates. What would you force them to do with a few hundred grand in school loans and a crap load of equipment and a payroll to meet as well as insurance to pay?



The ones who are just in it for the continued money would retire. The ones in mid life would be screwed and you would not get another medical student into the system. They would take their talents elsewhere.


What’s the elsewhere that they will take their talents to? That’s what I’m asking here.

There’s no reason we couldn’t also throw some bones the docs way, either via tort reform or student loan forgiveness or some combo of those.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-22-2019, 9:33 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
So you are arguing that we should disband the police and fire delta as a cost saving measure? Allowing citizens to “go bare” with no protection, or to buy into their private for profit police or fire coop of choice and we will all be better off and reap the cost savings?
You really like to move the goal posts. Where did I say any such thing? There are certain things that you have to have. Certain things you don't. We can choose as a society to have certain socialized items and when we do, money will be pulled out of the private sector. Me, I would prefer people like you did not own a business. It would make my money go further. I would not have to compete for housing and such from more well do to people.

As far as teachers, fire and cops? Well the towns around the bay area are doing just that. They have closed many firehouses. They are limited in their police staffing with force overtime. If you get hurt in our area, you will most likely be choppered out because they do not have a emergency medical facility in an area with a few hundred thousand people.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-22-2019, 9:34 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
What’s the elsewhere that they will take their talents to? That’s what I’m asking here.

There’s no reason we couldn’t also throw some bones the docs way, either via tort reform or student loan forgiveness or some combo of those.
Where would they take their talents? Finance? Engineering? Law?

Also, what do you call it when a government forces you to accept a certain amount of money or goods for your talents that could net you rmore?

Let me ask you, why do we have so many Indian Doctors in the country? Why do we have many Euopean trained scientists and engineers in the country? It is because they are trying to maximize their earning because they can not get ahead in their socialized system. They are moving to where they can.

Last edited by DeltaHoosier; 03-22-2019 at 9:38 AM.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-22-2019, 9:41 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
You really like to move the goal posts. Where did I say any such thing? There are certain things that you have to have. Certain things you don't. We can choose as a society to have certain socialized items and when we do, money will be pulled out of the private sector.

See?! We agree!

The “certainty” of those “certain things” really isn’t certain at all. It’s not unreasonable for patriotic citizens to have conversations about what we should and shouldn’t spend on as a group, and it’s not unreasonable to re-evaluate what’s been done in the past from time to time.

I know you like to stake extreme positions, but I’m here to tell you that just talking about this stuff and considering whether the system makes sense as currently configured isn’t (always) a subversive ANTIFA plot. Sometimes Americans who love their country see a thing that is broken and want to vet and consider a wide range of options to fix that thing.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-22-2019, 9:45 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Where would they take their talents? Finance? Engineering? Law?

Also, what do you call it when a government forces you to accept a certain amount of money or goods for your talents that could net you rmore?

Let me ask you, why do we have so many Indian Doctors in the country? Why do we have many Euopean trained scientists and engineers in the country? It is because they are trying to maximize their earning because they can not get ahead in their socialized system. They are moving to where they can.


Cmon man docs in middle age aren’t going to go back to engineering school anymore than displaced Midwest factory workers are gonna become coders. “Job retraining” sounds nice but it doesn’t really work that way.

Immigration Q is an interesting one too. One could argue that we have the system most skewed to enriching physicians (I think that’s what you are saying?) but not the best healthcare (as measured by outcomes... or cost... or life expectancy).
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-22-2019, 9:56 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Cmon man docs in middle age aren’t going to go back to engineering school anymore than displaced Midwest factory workers are gonna become coders. “Job retraining” sounds nice but it doesn’t really work that way.

Immigration Q is an interesting one too. One could argue that we have the system most skewed to enriching physicians (I think that’s what you are saying?) but not the best healthcare (as measured by outcomes... or cost... or life expectancy).
I specifically said mid career doctors are screwed. People who would have been prospective doctors more than likely will not choose to be doctors but move other fields( lawyers, engineers, scientists, etc). Late career docs would more than likely retire unless they have made their cash and are doing it for the higher calling.

I believe we have the best doctors and healthcare capabilities. We because we have such a spread out society and do not tend to be family dwelllers carry so much more stress and questionable lifestyles compared to other societies is the reason for less medical outcomes. Where to do the rich socialist come for treatment? The US. When you have the means and you want to the best, you don't go someplace that has the worst or even 10th best doctors.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-22-2019, 9:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
See?! We agree!

The “certainty” of those “certain things” really isn’t certain at all. It’s not unreasonable for patriotic citizens to have conversations about what we should and shouldn’t spend on as a group, and it’s not unreasonable to re-evaluate what’s been done in the past from time to time.

I know you like to stake extreme positions, but I’m here to tell you that just talking about this stuff and considering whether the system makes sense as currently configured isn’t (always) a subversive ANTIFA plot. Sometimes Americans who love their country see a thing that is broken and want to vet and consider a wide range of options to fix that thing.
I don't believe I have any extreme positions. Society is decaying so fast that what was once mid views are now on the outside. I think my positions are around a JFK or a Ronald Reagan. Both were life long democrats. I just don't embrace the racist of the democrat party from any time and place and I certainly do not embrace the current America last democrat party. Other than that, I can see both set of view points on almost every issue.

Speaking of extreme. What is the answer for this?

What do you call it when a government forces you to accept a certain amount of money or goods for your talents that could net you rmore?

Last edited by DeltaHoosier; 03-22-2019 at 10:03 AM.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-22-2019, 10:01 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
I specifically said mid career doctors are screwed. People who would have been prospective doctors more than likely will not choose to be doctors but move other fields( lawyers, engineers, scientists, etc). Late career docs would more than likely retire unless they have made their cash and are doing it for the higher calling.



I believe we have the best doctors and healthcare capabilities. We because we have such a spread out society and do not tend to be family dwelllers carry so much more stress and questionable lifestyles compared to other societies is the reason for less medical outcomes. Where to do the rich socialist come for treatment? The US. When you have the means and you want to the best, you don't go someplace that has the worst or even 10th best doctors.


Oh no doubt we may have the best system for the Uber wealthy. For the other 99.99% of us why does that matter?

Thats like saying Harvard is the worlds most desirable college to defend the US education system.

How does having exceptional care for oligarchs translate to good enough care for everyone?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-22-2019, 10:05 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Oh no doubt we may have the best system for the Uber wealthy. For the other 99.99% of us why does that matter?

Thats like saying Harvard is the worlds most desirable college to defend the US education system.

How does having exceptional care for oligarchs translate to good enough care for everyone?
Same is true in Germany. The wealthy always have it better.

The poor just don't get a rod or pins for a broken leg. They do get a x-ray and a cast. That is still better than 90% of the world. They even get worker protections to help them against their employer even though the deck is stacked. I think most Americans have lost their perspective on how much better the basics are in this country compared to the rest of the world. Heck, the people in California have lived on their island so long, they have no idea what it is like to live in the rest of the country.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-22-2019, 10:06 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
I don't believe I have any extreme positions. Society is decaying so fast that what was once mid views are now on the outside. I think my positions are around a JFK or a Ronald Reagan. Both were life long democrats. I just don't embrace the racist of the democrat party from any time and place and I certainly do not embrace the current America last democrat party. Other than that, I can see both set of view points on almost every issue.

Hmm maybe I read into what you write too much but I feel like you frequently insinuate that if a dem proposes or pursues a policy, it must be bad for America... without taking time to consider the policy itself.

I.e. the knee jerk “socialism bad” but (prime example of socialism) “taxpayer funded Indiana county hospitals good.”
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-22-2019, 10:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Same is true in Germany. The wealthy always have it better.



The poor just don't get a rod or pins for a broken leg. They do get a x-ray and a cast. That is still better than 90% of the world. They even get worker protections to help them against their employer even though the deck is stacked.


Can you please cite me to where this free cast and X-ray benefit is granted?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-22-2019, 10:10 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Hmm maybe I read into what you write too much but I feel like you frequently insinuate that if a dem proposes or pursues a policy, it must be bad for America... without taking time to consider the policy itself.

I.e. the knee jerk “socialism bad” but (prime example of socialism) “taxpayer funded Indiana county hospitals good.”
I think you read way too much into it. The county hospital in Indiana is not the only one. My wifes surgeries when she was younger happened right in the bay area of california. Those TV shows about Chicago hospitals? Cook County General. County Hospital. Like I said, you guys act like we as a society are not funding socialized medicine. I am telling you that socialized medicine will not stand on it's own. It only stands because they piggy back off of for profit medicine.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-22-2019, 10:13 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
I think you read way too much into it. The county hospital in Indiana is not the only one. My wifes surgeries when she was younger happened right in the bay area of california. Those TV shows about Chicago hospitals? Cook County General. County Hospital. Like I said, you guys act like we as a society are not funding socialized medicine. I am telling you that socialized medicine will not stand on it's own. It only stands because they piggy back off of for profit medicine.


Don’t all socialist programs stand on the back of enterprise in one way or another? We pay for them directly through taxes (education, fire, police, military, roads) or indirectly through increased costs to the “can pay” folks? What is the justification for the current system being the only possible alternative? Is it really the most efficient?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-22-2019, 10:14 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Can you please cite me to where this free cast and X-ray benefit is granted?
You would have to talk to the construction worker who fixed a door in my house back in the day. That is exactly what happened to him. Took him 6 months to recover because pinned legs heal much faster than simple casted legs. Someone paid. not him. I got a cut cleaned up as a teen. Did not pay. My wife while visiting my home town developed Strep and had an infection. $100 for a visit and all the tests and medicine. Not bad. that was just a few years ago. She got taken in for dehydration at work in Cali. The visit was $8k.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-22-2019, 10:19 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
You would have to talk to the construction worker who fixed a door in my house back in the day. That is exactly what happened to him. Took him 6 months to recover because pinned legs heal much faster than simple casted legs. Someone paid. not him. I got a cut cleaned up as a teen. Did not pay. My wife while visiting my home town developed Strep and had an infection. $100 for a visit and all the tests and medicine. Not bad. that was just a few years ago. She got taken in for dehydration at work in Cali. The visit was $8k.

Those are anecdotes, not policy. I can just as easily find you examples of the broken leg guy who got turned over to collection and had to BK out of a simple broken bone.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-22-2019, 10:21 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Don’t all socialist programs stand on the back of enterprise in one way or another? We pay for them directly through taxes (education, fire, police, military, roads) or indirectly through increased costs to the “can pay” folks? What is the justification for the current system being the only possible alternative? Is it really the most efficient?
And we already pay medical through socialized means and it costs billions for what we have even now. The private sector is paying billions as well. Two things are going to happen. The rich will get richer because business owners will get out paying and innovation will most likely leave the market. Small business people with fringe products will go away. The reason this works right now is you multi national corps bringing in profits from around the globe to help pay for the structure. If goes government, you will have to print money (inflation), reduced services and the for mentioned death panels. Like I said, sign me up. I can handle not having as much money in the economy. I will do much better for it. You will not have people with extra cash for housing. No food places on every corner thus less pressure on the food supplies. works for me.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-22-2019, 10:24 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Those are anecdotes, not policy. I can just as easily find you examples of the broken leg guy who got turned over to collection and had to BK out of a simple broken bone.
and so? He was able to get relief from his bills. The rich use BK every day but for us it is a crime, a shame? It is a tool. If you chose to stop working you will go into BK. If you go wakeboarding and throw out your back and cant work, you will go BK. Getting treated does not make you free from the down time of now working. He had to go back to a basic living like the socialist want you do to anyway. He just beat you to the punch. You realized that a broken leg in the real world outside of the US and Europe is practically a death sentence right?

Last edited by DeltaHoosier; 03-22-2019 at 10:26 AM.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-22-2019, 10:28 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
and so? He was able to get relief from his bills. He had to go back to a basic living like the socialist want you do to anyway. He just beat you to the punch. You realized that a broken leg in the real world outside of the US and Europe is practically a death sentence right?


So this guy was Uber wealthy but he has a huge economic setback because of something as simple as a broken leg? You think if we adopted Medicare for all that the death panels would be denying broken leg coverage (no of course they wouldn’t). But basically he “had it coming”? What’s the point here Delta? This seems to be an example of a guy who had a substantial economic setback from something really basic that could be universally covered pretty inexpensively.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-22-2019, 10:29 AM Reply   
Delta's analysis of our HC system is woefully inadequate. You are lucky if your HI protects you should you get hurt outside the local area. If you travel and end up injured or sick it's unlikely that you will be billed non-negotiated rates, and consequently are on the hook for the difference. Just for reference I've seen those differences.... $435 billed/ $35 negotiated rate for a lab test. $130K billed/$70K negotiated for getting gall bladder and stones removed. $20K billed/$13K negotiated for a hopital f**kup.

Poor people can walk into the ER for anything at any time. The public pays for them to use the most expensive services available to address the most minor of problems. The free market has been destroyed by the govt IRS rules and interference. You can't apply free market principals. And you can't use that kind of reasoning while simultaneously claiming that free HC is available everywhere. The people who are most as risk are the middle class. People who are fiscally responsible are vulnerable because people in the middle class don't have the resources to cover hospital bills if they lose their HI.

If the bread winner of the family gets disabled then there is no income to pay for HI for the whole family. The disabled breadwinner gets medicare after 2 years of being disabled. I.E. you work all your life to pay into a system specifically designed to leave you in the cold for two years if something happens. If you travel with your family, you might want to warn everyone not to do anything that would require urgent care. Because that could put you in debt for 10's of thousands of dollars. The most important issue for fiscally responsible people would be to regulate costs to ensure that in/out of network becomes an extinct concept. But unfortunately Americans are easily tooled to defend a bad system and Delta is an excellent example of how the public can be made to be afraid of poor people spoiling the party while the people in power create huge vulnerabilities to extract your savings and security.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-22-2019, 10:30 AM Reply   
[QUOTE=shawndoggy;1987187 Is it really the most efficient?[/QUOTE]

Efficient almost always means that it is not able to be dynamic. We have a very dynamic system in which much of the world builds their efficiency off of. It is like me assuming that a service you provide will always be constant so I am going to build my processes off of it. Europe and Canada has done that. Would you like to visit the former Soviet Union medical system? That was not built on assuming our medical system.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-22-2019, 10:32 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
And we already pay medical through socialized means and it costs billions for what we have even now. The private sector is paying billions as well. Two things are going to happen. The rich will get richer because business owners will get out paying and innovation will most likely leave the market. Small business people with fringe products will go away. The reason this works right now is you multi national corps bringing in profits from around the globe to help pay for the structure. If goes government, you will have to print money (inflation), reduced services and the for mentioned death panels. Like I said, sign me up. I can handle not having as much money in the economy. I will do much better for it. You will not have people with extra cash for housing. No food places on every corner thus less pressure on the food supplies. works for me.


So assuming your argument is correct that any socialist program just enriched the rich, let’s go back to the education and police/fire examples — how have those universal socialist systems made the rich richer and how would you change those systems to take money from the rich and put it in the hands of the workers?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-22-2019, 10:38 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
Delta's analysis of our HC system is woefully inadequate. You are lucky if your HI protects you should you get hurt outside the local area. If you travel and end up injured or sick it's unlikely that you will be billed non-negotiated rates, and consequently are on the hook for the difference. Just for reference I've seen those differences.... $435 billed/ $35 negotiated rate for a lab test. $130K billed/$70K negotiated for getting gall bladder and stones removed. $20K billed/$13K negotiated for a hopital f**kup.

Poor people can walk into the ER for anything at any time. The public pays for them to use the most expensive services available to address the most minor of problems. The free market has been destroyed by the govt IRS rules and interference. You can't apply free market principals. And you can't use that kind of reasoning while simultaneously claiming that free HC is available everywhere. The people who are most as risk are the middle class. People who are fiscally responsible are vulnerable because people in the middle class don't have the resources to cover hospital bills if they lose their HI.

If the bread winner of the family gets disabled then there is no income to pay for HI for the whole family. The disabled breadwinner gets medicare after 2 years of being disabled. I.E. you work all your life to pay into a system specifically designed to leave you in the cold for two years if something happens. If you travel with your family, you might want to warn everyone not to do anything that would require urgent care. Because that could put you in debt for 10's of thousands of dollars. The most important issue for fiscally responsible people would be to regulate costs to ensure that in/out of network becomes an extinct concept. But unfortunately Americans are easily tooled to defend a bad system and Delta is an excellent example of how the public can be made to be afraid of poor people spoiling the party while the people in power create huge vulnerabilities to extract your savings and security.
I can agree with much of what you said. There should not be a in and out. I grew up without insurance and I have had a job were I have insurance and made sure I kept hat job. However when I you speak about it, all I hear is someone who want the cake and eat it too. You want to work for yourself and maximize your free time and profit while the vast majority of the workers drive to their jobs and do their work in ironically a very much a socialized endevour while you don't want to participate in the socialize endevour. You want to participate on your terms but get the benefits of those who are working together for their greater good. Government or a corporate master, you are slaving to a boss as a middle class worker. We as Americans also want to participate in high risk activities and have other pay for it. If we are going to starts having everyone pay for it, should we start to have say in what activities you can participate in?
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-22-2019, 10:41 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
I can agree with much of what you said. There should not be a in and out. I grew up without insurance and I have had a job were I have insurance and made sure I kept hat job. However when I you speak about it, all I hear is someone who want the cake and eat it too. You want to work for yourself and maximize your free time and profit while the vast majority of the workers drive to their jobs and do their work in ironically a very much a socialized endevour while you don't want to participate in the socialize endevour. You want to participate on your terms but get the benefits of those who are working together for their greater good. Government or a corporate master, you are slaving to a boss as a middle class worker. We as Americans also want to participate in high risk activities and have other pay for it. If we are going to starts having everyone pay for it, should we start to have say in what activities you can participate in?

Haha didn’t you argue that smokers and lard but diabetes people actually cost less because they die off sooner?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-22-2019, 10:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
So assuming your argument is correct that any socialist program just enriched the rich, let’s go back to the education and police/fire examples — how have those universal socialist systems made the rich richer and how would you change those systems to take money from the rich and put it in the hands of the workers?
I think it is proven that in a socialist society only the rich are rich and the poor stay very poor. Look to south America right now. You always end up with a few rich people until they run out of everyone elses money. They loose inovation and die on the world stage. They collapse because they can not attract outside money typically. China has stolen technology for generations and has built a tech sector of our innovations except they have slave labor and a willing buyer.

Police and fire? They are around only because they have too. The survive in spite of it. In many major cities those items collapse to a certain degree. In our area they have closed many fire departments and we are in the burbs with a crap load of new housing. I think it is a red herring that police and fire have made the rich richer because they have to pay private insurance to cover costs based on what kind of fire and police are available and they used to have to pay extra for that before the state passed laws that said people living in Oakland did not have to pay more for insurance even though they had higher rates of incidents, breakins, and so on. They socialized the costs out to us so we all pay more. However with that said, bigger house the bigger the bill for taxes and insurance. More expensive the car, the more expensive the insurance and taxes. In either case if you used those services all the time, your insurance rates would sky rocket instantly and the cost of the behavior would stop further issues instantly. Medical there is no such issue. That is why they are so different.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-22-2019, 10:56 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
So this guy was Uber wealthy but he has a huge economic setback because of something as simple as a broken leg? You think if we adopted Medicare for all that the death panels would be denying broken leg coverage (no of course they wouldn’t). But basically he “had it coming”? What’s the point here Delta? This seems to be an example of a guy who had a substantial economic setback from something really basic that could be universally covered pretty inexpensively.
You are saying the cost of a x-ray and a cast cost him his house. I call bull crap. What cost him was his inability to work. Oddly enough there is insurance for that. Did he chose to buy it? Did he look to go to the county hospital for treatment or did he go down to the private hospital?
Old     (onlyinboards)      Join Date: Oct 2014       03-22-2019, 11:00 AM Reply   
Wait wait wait.... i didn't even read this entire page. Can we go back to something? $40 pizzas? Forty Dollars???? WTH??? Now I know I will never move to Cali!
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-22-2019, 11:02 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Haha didn’t you argue that smokers and lard but diabetes people actually cost less because they die off sooner?
I argued that you will go through a end of life event at some point. The end of life event ends up at the same place. Younger people end of life events are usually quicker (heart attack) to similar (cancer for instance). You can almost call that a fixed cost. So what is the variable? New Knee? Hip replacement? statically longer illnesses as you get older? So yes for the general public, pure money it is cheaper for people to dye earlier than later. Not saying I want that. It is just what it is.

You want to know how this is true? Insurance companies are more than willing to take your money and pay just eneough for you to stay healthy enough to get you onto medicare but they fight like heck to keep you from getting MRI's or surgeries if they can keep from it.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-22-2019, 11:04 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlyinboards View Post
Wait wait wait.... i didn't even read this entire page. Can we go back to something? $40 pizzas? Forty Dollars???? WTH??? Now I know I will never move to Cali!
Mountain Mike's if you want the big one. Most of the others are around $30 or so for a large at most mid range places. You can still get those Little C's deals for $12 or so
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-22-2019, 11:09 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
I can agree with much of what you said. There should not be a in and out. I grew up without insurance and I have had a job were I have insurance and made sure I kept hat job. However when I you speak about it, all I hear is someone who want the cake and eat it too. You want to work for yourself and maximize your free time and profit while the vast majority of the workers drive to their jobs and do their work in ironically a very much a socialized endevour while you don't want to participate in the socialize endevour. You want to participate on your terms but get the benefits of those who are working together for their greater good. Government or a corporate master, you are slaving to a boss as a middle class worker. We as Americans also want to participate in high risk activities and have other pay for it. If we are going to starts having everyone pay for it, should we start to have say in what activities you can participate in?
You "hear" all that because you've been tooled into believing a lot of BS. You seem to be talking to someone else. I've worked and been insured for a long time. I have the resources to pay for high priced HI. What king of "cake" are you talking about? Because it appears that you enjoying eating s**t pie. If you didn't notice I am railing against a system that takes advantage of the public when it can.

If we had single payer HI then there would be no shafting people with non negotiated rates. If we are going to have the govt undermining the free market then it's also needs to implement price and policy controls, so that people don't live in fear of the non-negotiated hyper inflated rate destroying their life savings. It doesn't even have to be "free" (to use a right wing misnomer) HI. It just needs to be valid no matter where to travel in the US. It's amazing how people can twist a simple concept of fair and controlled pricing of the most vulnerable easily victimized people on the planet (i.e. the sick) into communism. Because the most likely thing that will drive this country into that will be right wingers selling their intelligence to the wealthy corps.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-22-2019, 12:26 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
You "hear" all that because you've been tooled into believing a lot of BS. You seem to be talking to someone else. I've worked and been insured for a long time. I have the resources to pay for high priced HI. What king of "cake" are you talking about? Because it appears that you enjoying eating s**t pie. If you didn't notice I am railing against a system that takes advantage of the public when it can.

If we had single payer HI then there would be no shafting people with non negotiated rates. If we are going to have the govt undermining the free market then it's also needs to implement price and policy controls, so that people don't live in fear of the non-negotiated hyper inflated rate destroying their life savings. It doesn't even have to be "free" (to use a right wing misnomer) HI. It just needs to be valid no matter where to travel in the US. It's amazing how people can twist a simple concept of fair and controlled pricing of the most vulnerable easily victimized people on the planet (i.e. the sick) into communism. Because the most likely thing that will drive this country into that will be right wingers selling their intelligence to the wealthy corps.
I am not fooled into anything. While agree it is BS if there are two prices for the same products, we have not even tried to get relief to the industry.

The "Cake" I am speaking about is your want to command a higher salary through working for yourself. Much of America is living the more socialized life. Socialized plans will not work. It costs 3 times as much to live in California as it does in Florida. You can not have a universal rate.

We also can not make a doctor through government control work at a certain price point. Sorry doc. You are only allowed to make so much. That sounds more like indentured servant.

I get what you are saying about hyper inflation, however that is the cost when you have real people with real other people working for them. From what I read the health industry is not taking hyper inflated profits. In some sectors they are taking less than standard profits. I could be wrong. If I am right then that is telling me your insurance costs are solely on usage or the people working in the field are taking bigger salaries.

All I know is Calfornia is trying to bring out a bigger system than their already huge medi-cal. The cost is scheduled to be over $1 Trillion for that. That is just one state.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-22-2019, 12:30 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post

We also can not make a doctor through government control work at a certain price point. Sorry doc. You are only allowed to make so much. That sounds more like indentured servant.

.

A. They will become lawyers and engineers, right?
B. Why do you think it’s the docs who are the ones screwing us in the first place? You think the for-profit insurance companies are taking a smaller cut of the total payment than the govt would? If so, why?
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       03-22-2019, 2:17 PM Reply   
Mueller Report is out.
Wonder how long til we find anything out?
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       03-22-2019, 2:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Indictments are not convictions and none of them have been about collusion.
You mean apart from the 13 russian agents and 3 russian companies?
Old     (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       03-22-2019, 3:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
They will become lawyers and engineers, right?
No! If you get an engineering degree, you can become a doctor, lawyer, or a teacher. The converse is Not true, if you go into pre-med, pre-law, or education, you will never be an engineer!
Old     (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       03-22-2019, 3:10 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
Mueller Report is out.
Wonder how long til we find anything out?
I do Not think the report will help his re-election campaign.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-22-2019, 3:50 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
The "Cake" I am speaking about is your want to command a higher salary through working for yourself. Much of America is living the more socialized life. Socialized plans will not work. It costs 3 times as much to live in California as it does in Florida. You can not have a universal rate.
I still don't understand your point about working for myself being a "wanna have cake and eat it too". I can afford to pay $1K a month for HI regardless of whether I'm employed or not. That isn't even the issue. The issue is the lack of universal cost controls. I find it amazing that you can claim you cannot do something that is already been done. In less than 2 years I'll qualify for Medicare and I can do exactly what you claim cannot be done... I can travel anywhere in the country and know that if I need medical care that I will get the medicare rate. The reason why people can go to the hospital regardless of ability to pay is because a hospital can't get paid by medicare if they don't accept those patients. That shows you the power that the public has as a monopoly and proves all your conjecture is wrong.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       03-22-2019, 4:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
So you are saying that Palin who was an actual governor of a state had less qualifications than a single term congressman who had zero executive experience? Or was it because she was a woman. I know you democrats would love to have a woman as VP or President but apparently it has to be a woman who supports murdering babies for it to be the right woman.

I absolutely agree with you that Trump does not have class. I agree with you on McCain. I believe McCain let his pride get in the way of his dealing with Trump and made a horrible choice in voting at the end.

On Trump. He was not my guy. However your democrat press should not have pushed him to the front in coverage thinking he would be an easy win for Hillary and you need to stop putting up candidates that hate America and want to sell our rights to the UN. I see what they have doing in California and I don't want that for America. I will never pull the lever for American last politicians.
Yes, I am saying that Palin has less qualifications than a single term congressman who had zero executive experience. It had nothing to do with her being a woman, just the fact that she is moron.

"Murdering babes"? LOL. Why don't you give that crap a rest?
Old     (wombat2wombat)      Join Date: Sep 2018       03-23-2019, 8:12 AM Reply   
Rusia Gaters = Truthers.
Old     (wombat2wombat)      Join Date: Sep 2018       03-24-2019, 5:40 AM Reply   
"It's Mueller time!"
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       03-24-2019, 10:45 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wombat2wombat View Post
"It's Mueller time!"
Glad for it to be over TBH, super interested to read the report but ready to move on. Plenty of other things to laugh at trump for. The debt, deficit and balance of trade for instance.
Old     (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       03-24-2019, 1:29 PM Reply   
https://www.yahoo.com/news/mueller-r...195735655.html

I'm working, so I admit that I haven't read all of it, but bottom line.....no collusion

bahahahahhahahhahahahhahahhahahhahahha

now will the democrats drop it? i highly doubt it
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