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Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       01-27-2021, 12:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
So what are these new best practices and better implementations of existing issues that will ďflatten the curve ď over time when implemented ?
Wasn't it just 2 weeks ago the ER's in Cali were too full and they had to shut down again and now magically not a single peep about full ER's and we are opening again. What ever. Everyone knows it was a small portion of truth with a large helping politics. Only difference is real people are suffering over it.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       01-27-2021, 12:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
distinguish from the lesbians changing with my daughter and the gays showering with my son, please.
easy answer. Do you or do you not want boys going into your daughters locker room?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       01-27-2021, 12:41 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
But they'll still teach that a lot of black folks died to get there, and that white folks didn't give up their legal rights of superiority willingly, right?
If they do then they are part of the problem. There are facts to the slave trade that also includes whites being traded. Blacks selling blacks. Portuguese trading them. Mostly white slave owners though it is reported that the first slaver was actually a black person. It is what it is. I as a white person have no claims to any thing anyone else did in history. period. To sell that bull **** is dangerous and a lie. It is simply politics.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       01-27-2021, 12:42 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
We had to shower after Gym Class. Some sports would shower after practice. Games not so much. Then again, you live in a state with crappy facilities so there you go.

Are you still in high school?
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       01-27-2021, 12:45 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
If they do then they are part of the problem. There are facts to the slave trade that also includes whites being traded. Blacks selling blacks. Portuguese trading them. Mostly white slave owners though it is reported that the first slaver was actually a black person. It is what it is. I as a white person have no claims to any thing anyone else did in history. period. To sell that bull **** is dangerous and a lie. It is simply politics.

As long as you let the government confiscate all of your wealth when you die and everyone starts from zero. We donít do that tho. If you allow people to inherit wealth, then $$$ made by prior generations continues to put one group at a competitive advantage.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       01-27-2021, 1:34 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
So we can agree that the statement that electric cars are only available to the wealthy is not correct?
No.............we can agree that electric cars cost double their gasoline counterparts and your would have to drive an electric car for apprx 8-10yrs longer than your gasoline counterpart to recoup the price difference from the start. There is literally no economical benefit of going with an electric vehicle instead of a gas counterpart .........NONE!



Nissan Leaf base price 31,500

Hyundai Accent /Elantra 16,500.

Nissan Sentra 19,500

But hey why be fiscally responsible when you can feel good about going green and lighting money on fire. Itís exactly the democratic way. Never mind what it costs. Just do it cuz it makes you feel good. Donít forget to add the cost of charger. Sure you can argue it comes with one. The one it comes with takes 20hrs to charge a car completely. The next upgrade takes 8 hrs and the highest upgrade is 30 min . So add another 1000 for installing a charger . Oh and if you donít drive daily your car will lose its charge And youíll watch that battery deplete a lot faster than it did off a fresh charged one.

That gap will shorten once Biden and company destroy our self reliance for energy and oil by implementing outrageous EPA standards and gas goes back to 5.00 gallon. If then your still not getting the upfront cost differential to break even for years.



Like I said theyíre great for those that want to buy them and feel good about themselves , even better if someone buys it be be green. Theyíre not fiscally responsible
For the average American. Ramming this down peopleís throats and making it a goal to be a sole product of a nation is completely asinine.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-27-2021, 2:22 PM Reply   
You can't tow an xstar with a Hyundai Accent or Nissan Sentra! Practically useless!
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       01-27-2021, 3:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
As long as you let the government confiscate all of your wealth when you die and everyone starts from zero. We don’t do that tho. If you allow people to inherit wealth, then $$$ made by prior generations continues to put one group at a competitive advantage.
You are so poisoned you don't even realize it. Anytime anyone died in my family, I got a bill. Can I hand my bills for family members dying to the government too? My story is all too common. So what other people have money? Does that keep others from making it? Are we somehow kept out of the Dubai club because all the slots are filled? How many jobs have you got from a poor person? I don't get this others had wealth nonsense. So white Europeans who just got here are what now? The laws are stacked against them because of their color. Minorities are the first in line since I have been alive. They only seem to be getting worse, not better. Not my fault. Not a colors fault like color dictates your culture. Not your fault. Ever wonder if a fault ever lands at the feet of the individual who decided to not take school serious, did not show up for work, did not try and get better? Sometimes life just gives people a bad hand. Is that a colors fault?

What is this about "groups"? That is where you are poisoned and don't even know. I am not a member of any group. I am me. I do not see my self as a color. I am a dude trying to make my way and make sure my kids have a better start than I did. That's it. I see a tide raising all boats. I don't see sinking others for others to get ahead. that is the crabs in a bucket mindset that many of these "groups" get into. Group think. I do not know you as a Hispanic female ( I have to assume since you democrats are so gender and racially fluid these days) but if you do well then so be it.

Your "group" of politicians, I would like to kick to the curb because you are pure evil.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-27-2021, 3:05 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
Nationwide, coal makes up 63%. I think Cali mostly uses natural gas.
Nah bro it's about 25% which is still a national embarrassment. For the richest nation in the world you guys are pretty backwards about somethings.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       01-27-2021, 3:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Are you still in high school?
They do that in America Still. Do you or do you not want boys looking at your naked daughter? Are you so poisoned that you now think that is OK? did you really need that seat at the table for your trinket so bad that you would sacrifice your daughter for it? Pure evil dude.

As far as gay people looking at your kids in school, there is a reason why gay kids don't feel exactly comfortable about saying they are gay in high school and junior high. Someone thinks they are looking at them sideways sexually in the locker room there is more than likely going to be trouble for them. That is why don't ask don't tell tends to work for the greater good in that case. Now you are just saying F it.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-27-2021, 3:12 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Then show us one that tells a different story. BTU is BTU is it not? How much is lost on the grid. How much does it cost to make batteries to make up for the vast amount of energy consumed? Lay it out there for us to digest.
This analysis calculates a model 3's cost over ownership is lower than a Honda accord over 5 years.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/cleante...st-to-own/amp/
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       01-27-2021, 3:15 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Nah bro it's about 25% which is still a national embarrassment. For the richest nation in the world you guys are pretty backwards about somethings.
I never really thought about it but World War 2 battle in Europe from Russia to France basically took place from the West Coast to Denver in the US. That is only about a 20 hour drive. Maybe 15 if you could go straight. It took me about 20 hours to get to Denver driving straight as an arrow from Indiana/ Illinois border. Never mind maybe another 15 to 20 hour drive to get from the Indiana/ Illinois border to the East Coast.

We do not have the same products, natural resources, weather, geography and even the same accents among other things. You are only influences by parts of America that have great wealth because they have international products. The rest of America is nothing like the California Coastal elites. Heck, the central valley is not the same as the coast never mind being 30 hours into the middle of the country.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-27-2021, 3:19 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Also if future is electric then why are you interested in artificially gutting the other industries to make it possible? If it was, it will do it naturally.
Two points:
The US government subsidizes the oil industry to the tune of $20b per year. Why? That should be stopped immediately.

Electric vehicles will continue to tumble in prices as the volume increases, it makes sense to give it a helping hand to accelerate the tipping point where electric is both cheaper and greener.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       01-27-2021, 3:25 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
This analysis calculates a model 3's cost over ownership is lower than a Honda accord over 5 years.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/cleante...st-to-own/amp/
I need to see more of his stats.

new model 3 START at $38,000 base. Honda Accord LX with a 4 cyclinder and loaded otherwise is $24,000. I am sure that model 3 is over $40,000. That is almost BMW 3 series price.

Can that Tesla make a 20 hour drive in one day? How do they do in a national park with no charge stations? Or during the simply 10 hour drive on the freeway to just get across the state of Kansas?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       01-27-2021, 3:30 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Two points:
The US government subsidizes the oil industry to the tune of $20b per year. Why? That should be stopped immediately.

Electric vehicles will continue to tumble in prices as the volume increases, it makes sense to give it a helping hand to accelerate the tipping point where electric is both cheaper and greener.
yes. They do need to find out why they subsidize. many cases it is to pay them to make sure we have a reserve for during war time. We also pay farmers not to grow certain crops. Many of these things are special deals to special interests. We need to find out. Electric cars have a place, at the end of the day, you are not going to replace the electric grid that needs to run 24/7 with solar panels. Solar panels have their place, but don't try and piss on us and tell us it is raining. Most of this is about moving American wealth out of America. You don't have to sign American taxation deals for America simply to do what it needs to do. You also don't give places like China most favored trade status like the democrats did under Clinton while they have zero climate requirements and expect our workers to compete with them.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       01-27-2021, 3:34 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
No.............we can agree that electric cars cost double their gasoline counterparts and your would have to drive an electric car for apprx 8-10yrs longer than your gasoline counterpart to recoup the price difference from the start. There is literally no economical benefit of going with an electric vehicle instead of a gas counterpart .........NONE!



Nissan Leaf base price 31,500

Hyundai Accent /Elantra 16,500.

Nissan Sentra 19,500

But hey why be fiscally responsible when you can feel good about going green and lighting money on fire. Itís exactly the democratic way. Never mind what it costs. Just do it cuz it makes you feel good. Donít forget to add the cost of charger. Sure you can argue it comes with one. The one it comes with takes 20hrs to charge a car completely. The next upgrade takes 8 hrs and the highest upgrade is 30 min . So add another 1000 for installing a charger . Oh and if you donít drive daily your car will lose its charge And youíll watch that battery deplete a lot faster than it did off a fresh charged one.

That gap will shorten once Biden and company destroy our self reliance for energy and oil by implementing outrageous EPA standards and gas goes back to 5.00 gallon. If then your still not getting the upfront cost differential to break even for years.



Like I said theyíre great for those that want to buy them and feel good about themselves , even better if someone buys it be be green. Theyíre not fiscally responsible
For the average American. Ramming this down peopleís throats and making it a goal to be a sole product of a nation is completely asinine.
Shoot man. When I would go back and visit, it was old buicks and other old chevy and fords on the road. My Wisconsin buddy will not buy a car made past the 70's and trucks from the 80's.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       01-27-2021, 4:26 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Nah bro it's about 25% which is still a national embarrassment. For the richest nation in the world you guys are pretty backwards about somethings.
ĎScuse me. 63% is the make up of all fossil fuels together. Theyíre still coal cars to me though. Natural gas cars is too long to type.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-27-2021, 4:47 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
I need to see more of his stats.

new model 3 START at $38,000 base. Honda Accord LX with a 4 cyclinder and loaded otherwise is $24,000. I am sure that model 3 is over $40,000. That is almost BMW 3 series price.
Just read the article, it's all there, he includes purchase price and resale value, running costs service costs insurance. Bumper to bumper costs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Can that Tesla make a 20 hour drive in one day? How do they do in a national park with no charge stations? Or during the simply 10 hour drive on the freeway to just get across the state of Kansas?
Actually a lot better than you would expect before owning one, all of your day to day charging is done at home or work, all long distance is done at the super charger network. You need about 30mins charging per 4 hrs of driving give or take. So not as good as petrol but not terrible, it's a good idea to stretch the legs every 4 hrs anyway. And it's important to remember for a large proportion of normal use you don't need to stop at all to refuel, it's done while your sleeping. I don't miss going to the gas station, that's for sure.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-27-2021, 4:50 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
ĎScuse me. 63% is the make up of all fossil fuels together. Theyíre still coal cars to me though. Natural gas cars is too long to type.
I do excuse you for being loose with the facts, clearly 63% of electricity doesn't come from coal like you stated. And 63% of your electricity coming from fossil fuels is terrible for a first world nation.
Old     (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       01-27-2021, 8:29 PM Reply   
I've avoided this site for a bit. I was wondering when a new political thread would emerge. I figured it'd be called....stupid moves by Biden. I gues I should have jumped the gun and started it.

having said that....invest in the hot psychedelic sector....made a ton so far
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       01-27-2021, 9:25 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Shoot man. When I would go back and visit, it was old buicks and other old chevy and fords on the road. My Wisconsin buddy will not buy a car made past the 70's and trucks from the 80's.
Ha Ainít that the truth , To this day I havenít a clue on how the Oldsmobile cutlass would just go forever.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       01-27-2021, 9:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
As long as you let the government confiscate all of your wealth when you die and everyone starts from zero. We donít do that tho. If you allow people to inherit wealth, then $$$ made by prior generations continues to put one group at a competitive advantage.
Why should peopleís money they earned not be passed down to future generations ? Do you really believe that when you die all the money you earned over the course of your life should be transferred to the government instead of passed on to the loved ones you busted your ass to provide for? People shouldnít be penalized for being successful, but hey thatís the democratic mantra . Take from those that make to reward those that do nothing.


What possible argument can one make that the money they earned shouldnít be passed on to the ones they earned it for ?
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       01-27-2021, 10:06 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
I need to see more of his stats.

new model 3 START at $38,000 base. Honda Accord LX with a 4 cyclinder and loaded otherwise is $24,000. I am sure that model 3 is over $40,000. That is almost BMW 3 series price.

Can that Tesla make a 20 hour drive in one day? How do they do in a national park with no charge stations? Or during the simply 10 hour drive on the freeway to just get across the state of Kansas?
You don’t need to see more stats. All you need to know ow is that article bases its ASSUMPTIONS on a small segment of society that fits the argument for their cause. Case in point they chose to focus on the stat of people who drive over 21k miles per year and then goes on further to include those that drive over 30k miles per year for their cost analysis . That’s a very small segment of society and precisely the segment electric cars are beneficial for. So it’s no surprise it’s actually beneficial there. However the rest of the overwhelming majority of Americans that drive the average of 13,500 miles per year would not benefit from it . No true cost analysis there for the average American driver( wonder why) , just a basis on the small fraction of drivers that actually would benefit From an EV option , which we all agree exists .
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       01-27-2021, 10:22 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Just read the article, it's all there, he includes purchase price and resale value, running costs service costs insurance. Bumper to bumper costs.

Actually a lot better than you would expect before owning one, all of your day to day charging is done at home or work, all long distance is done at the super charger network. You need about 30mins charging per 4 hrs of driving give or take. So not as good as petrol but not terrible, it's a good idea to stretch the legs every 4 hrs anyway. And it's important to remember for a large proportion of normal use you don't need to stop at all to refuel, it's done while your sleeping. I don't miss going to the gas station, that's for sure.
That’s only if your work has a charging station , You’re in the very minute, microscopic part of the world economy if your work has a charging station. So now what , companies are expected to incur additional exorbitant costs for their employees to charge their vehicles while at work ?


I read the article and their assumptions are sketchy at best and clearly bias


Let me quote the article your posted on their own data


Before jumping into that, though, it’s critical to remember that assumptions are key in such analyses. With very different assumptions for some of the variables, the Accord could be cheaper


Add in the fact their data set has the standard driving mileage at OVER 21-30k per year , the argument and article becomes even more absurd. The average American drives 13k a year. So again your electric vehicle argument only benefits a small portion of the actual driving community , in very specific conditions.





This article is a complete fantasy to a majority of drivers




Super charging stations.....now that’s funny. What happened when you pull up to super charging station and there isn’t one available because it’s being used ? Who is footing the bill for these commercial “super charging stations? More importantly what happens whe the route you need to take doesn’t have any?
Not sure about you , but 30 min of my time every couple hundred miles is very valuable, as is it for a majority of
People driving long distances.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-27-2021, 10:49 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
That’s only if your work has a charging station , You’re in the very minute, microscopic part of the world economy if your work has a charging station. So now what , companies are expected to incur additional exorbitant costs for their employees to charge their vehicles while at work ?
Most people charge at home obviously but we have a big solar system at work and are transitioning our fleet to electric so I charge there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
I read the article and their assumptions are sketchy at best and clearly bias
Of course it's biased but the point isn't that it's cheaper than an Accord in this specific example it's that the more expensive capital cost is offset by the significantly cheaper running costs. And this example is with a 40k car, what happens when the cost is pushed down to 25k with economies of scale and mass adoption?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
Add in the fact their data set has the standard driving mileage at OVER 21-30k per year , the argument and article becomes even more absurd. The average American drives 13k a year. So again your electric vehicle argument only benefits a small portion of the actual driving community , in very specific conditions.
One minute your saying oh I can't drive it far enough the next that it's driving too far, make up your mind!


Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
Super charging stations.....now that’s funny. What happened when you pull up to super charging station and there isn’t one available because it’s being used ? Who is footing the bill for these commercial “super charging stations?
Tesla own and operate the supercharger network and the in car navigation tells you how many stalls are free as you are navigating there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
Not sure about you , but 30 min of my time every couple hundred miles is very valuable.
As if, your time isn't valuable at all.

Last edited by ralph; 01-27-2021 at 10:53 PM.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       01-28-2021, 4:12 AM Reply   
These dinosaur posts aren't going to age well lol.
Old     (skiboarder)      Join Date: Oct 2006       01-28-2021, 6:21 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ord27 View Post
I've avoided this site for a bit. I was wondering when a new political thread would emerge. I figured it'd be called....stupid moves by Biden. I gues I should have jumped the gun and started it.

having said that....invest in the hot psychedelic sector....made a ton so far
100%. I believe psychedelics are the next big legalization. Not my style, but they are less harmful than most drugs and I have read that people are replacing microdosing meth (adderall) with microdosing psilocybin (magic mushrooms) with really good results minus all of the sideffects.

Any advice on where to start in psychedelic investment.
Old     (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       01-28-2021, 7:15 AM Reply   
There is now an ETF for the sector.

I like individual stocks, but you will need a strong resolve.

Mindmed, compass pathways, red light holland, revive therapeutics, ehave, minerco


Decide what your play is. Do you want to go the recreational route or stick with the medical side.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...al-health-uses


hopefully the Biden term will be good for the sector
Old     (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       01-28-2021, 7:18 AM Reply   
in response to some of the above...

One day soon, I will tow a brand new Wakesetter with a Rivian electric pickup
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       01-28-2021, 8:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Just read the article, it's all there, he includes purchase price and resale value, running costs service costs insurance. Bumper to bumper costs.

Actually a lot better than you would expect before owning one, all of your day to day charging is done at home or work, all long distance is done at the super charger network. You need about 30mins charging per 4 hrs of driving give or take. So not as good as petrol but not terrible, it's a good idea to stretch the legs every 4 hrs anyway. And it's important to remember for a large proportion of normal use you don't need to stop at all to refuel, it's done while your sleeping. I don't miss going to the gas station, that's for sure.
I think it has a great niche in California and in places that have exactly what you say. Shorter trips and charge at night for commuting 20,000 miles a year. have to see how long those batteries last though. How many years can these things last with that many charge cycles. Not apposed to the idea but having a car that I have to manage is not in the cards for me right now. If it were not for the magnetic charger next to my bed, my phone may never get charged. Interesting for the big city types where they are stacked on each other in condos and such. Always jockeying for a charge spot.

I wonder if the 4 hours of driving is 4 hours of driving at 70 mph on the freeway. At this point I would not categorize the car as a good road trip car. you can not even make it to LA from here. Could not make it across Kansas without stopping for 1.5 hours. that is a ton of time to stop. vast majority of America does not have super charger stations. That requires a crap load of electrical grid on highways now. That is a whole new ball of wax especially trying to get right of way rights to run all that electrical. If you think it is going to be solar panel charging. No driving at night.

It has it's place but I don't want to have to manage my car. It is a tool. I get in and I go. I stop for fuel once a week if I am commuting and it takes 5 minutes max.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       01-28-2021, 9:05 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Just read the article, it's all there, he includes purchase price and resale value, running costs service costs insurance. Bumper to bumper costs.

Actually a lot better than you would expect before owning one, all of your day to day charging is done at home or work, all long distance is done at the super charger network. You need about 30mins charging per 4 hrs of driving give or take. So not as good as petrol but not terrible, it's a good idea to stretch the legs every 4 hrs anyway. And it's important to remember for a large proportion of normal use you don't need to stop at all to refuel, it's done while your sleeping. I don't miss going to the gas station, that's for sure.
I don't buy his numbers. There is a built in $20k different in price right off the bat. Not making that up with short trip drives. Just like a diesel truck. Does not start paying off until you get read high mileage or you are towing a lot to make up for the MPG. The inherent cost of the equipment keeps it from being cost competitive for some time. We still have not seen what the end of life looks like for these. Pure toxic waste.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       01-28-2021, 9:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
These dinosaur posts aren't going to age well lol.
I think they will do just fine. I think you guys forget how big this country is.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       01-28-2021, 9:08 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ord27 View Post
in response to some of the above...

One day soon, I will tow a brand new Wakesetter with a Rivian electric pickup
Nice setup, just not for the other 99.5 percent of the country to be able to afford a near $200k setup when they live in $40k houses.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       01-28-2021, 9:13 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
Ha Ainít that the truth , To this day I havenít a clue on how the Oldsmobile cutlass would just go forever.
I'm telling you. These coastal people just do not understand. California forces you to get rid of your car basically due to smog controls. Lots of turn over. It is nice seeing all nice cars on the road and so on, then you go and look under the overpasses and how many people are living under them. The other side of that is even if you make nearly a $100k a year, you still have to have roommates because you can not afford rent on your own. That is unheard of in the midwest. Usually college students and young people at best. here, you have to have 3 generations of family shacking up or 3 to 4 well paid strangers to get by. That is the stuff they don't tell you about or talk about. It forces a much much higher buy in to just get into the basic economy with all the regulations.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-28-2021, 9:20 AM Reply   
Tesla just released the cheapest sedan in the world with 0-60 time less than 2s and 1/4 mile less than 9s. Lol.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-28-2021, 9:29 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
I wonder if the 4 hours of driving is 4 hours of driving at 70 mph on the freeway. At this point I would not categorize the car as a good road trip car. you can not even make it to LA from here. Could not make it across Kansas without stopping for 1.5 hours. that is a ton of time to stop. vast majority of America does not have super charger stations. That requires a crap load of electrical grid on highways now. That is a whole new ball of wax especially trying to get right of way rights to run all that electrical. If you think it is going to be solar panel charging. No driving at night.
Depends on the model, the entry level 37k model 3 has 250 miles range, the 45k LR 350 miles. But it's getting better all the time. Last night they released a 520+ mile model s. Crazy expensive and fast tho.

The super charger network is pretty filled out already and more been added as more cars get sold. You can drive coast to coast no problem.

The progress tesla has made over the last 5 years is amazing, the next 5 years with other manufactures pushing them will be even futher.
Attached Images
 
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       01-28-2021, 10:00 AM Reply   
Today, according to fair and balanced sources, GM says they'll be all electric by 2035.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyl...-electric-2035

Wonder when the "government motors" boycotts are going to resume?
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-28-2021, 1:11 PM Reply   
If you want really big picture thinking in 5 to 10 years a lot of people won't need their own car, when they need one you will just call one like an Uber and it will drive itself to you.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       01-28-2021, 1:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Most people charge at home obviously but we have a big solar system at work and are transitioning our fleet to electric so I charge there.

Of course it's biased but the point isn't that it's cheaper than an Accord in this specific example it's that the more expensive capital cost is offset by the significantly cheaper running costs. And this example is with a 40k car, what happens when the cost is pushed down to 25k with economies of scale and mass adoption?

One minute your saying oh I can't drive it far enough the next that it's driving too far, make up your mind!



Tesla own and operate the supercharger network and the in car navigation tells you how many stalls are free as you are navigating there.

As if, your time isn't valuable at all.



Do you not read and understand the arguments.


The argument is these cars don’t have enough mileage capacity to make it long distances without stopping for long term charging thus having no value for
People who travel long distances frequently.


The second argument is you have to keep an EV longer offset the initial cost difference when compared to a gas counterpart.


Both are 100% accurate .



However in very special circumstances ( what your article touches on ) , you’re actual better off with an electric vehicle. This is not the norm for an average American .......It’s the complete minority........ but there is a way the initial cost of an EV is advantageous to its gas counterpart economically over time which is what this article explains. Again tho the situation explained
In your article is not the norm. No one every said there isn’t a time when the EV is advantageous. The point is it’s only advantageous in a minute instance, which means making it the National
Standard is completely retarded. Clearly something you can’t seem to comprehend. Yet again you’re focused on the details of where you’re at making an argument to try and spin it as the best for America, and once again your disconnect makes your argument laughable .

Last edited by xstarrider; 01-28-2021 at 1:30 PM.
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       01-28-2021, 2:12 PM Reply   
How many executive orders do you think Sleepy can make in one month, Vegas odds are over 100, going to place my bet, when doing the super bowl and see if by end of feb he hits it. 7:1 odds he won't hit 100, vegas says he will
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       01-28-2021, 3:02 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
Do you not read and understand the arguments.


The argument is these cars don’t have enough mileage capacity to make it long distances without stopping for long term charging thus having no value for
People who travel long distances frequently.
Not gonna lie, a sub 400 mile range is one of the things that turns me off about an electric. Of course that's like 1 out of every 200 trips for me. If there were a super easy way to rent a long distance car for the few times I need it, I'd probably be game.

That said I have an acquaintance that does a 400 mile drive back and forth to southern CA regularly in his model 3. He does have to make one 30 minute stop each way, but he says it's not that bad. In his case though, he has a home at either end of the drive, so he doesn't have to go searching for a second charging station upon arrival at his destination.

99% sure my next car will be electric. Which may make me hold on to the current gassers for a bit longer than I otherwise would.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       01-28-2021, 3:11 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Not gonna lie, a sub 400 mile range is one of the things that turns me off about an electric. Of course that's like 1 out of every 200 trips for me. If there were a super easy way to rent a long distance car for the few times I need it, I'd probably be game.

That said I have an acquaintance that does a 400 mile drive back and forth to southern CA regularly in his model 3. He does have to make one 30 minute stop each way, but he says it's not that bad. In his case though, he has a home at either end of the drive, so he doesn't have to go searching for a second charging station upon arrival at his destination.

99% sure my next car will be electric. Which may make me hold on to the current gassers for a bit longer than I otherwise would.
I am going to hold off and let the system settle in a bit longer. Still buy 2 cars for the cost of 1 almost.

Going to be soon enough when crooks start to realize about these charging stations and setting up shop.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       01-28-2021, 3:17 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Depends on the model, the entry level 37k model 3 has 250 miles range, the 45k LR 350 miles. But it's getting better all the time. Last night they released a 520+ mile model s. Crazy expensive and fast tho.

The super charger network is pretty filled out already and more been added as more cars get sold. You can drive coast to coast no problem.

The progress tesla has made over the last 5 years is amazing, the next 5 years with other manufactures pushing them will be even futher.
I am sure they have made progress. I can see gas stations converting to some charge stations, however when i see gas stations they are usually full to a few of the 12 pumps being used all the time for a few minute fill up. now with the ability to charge at home that can be a game changer to a certain degree. I wonder if that will create a migration out of the cities? Still need a series upgrade to the electric grid. California still goes through brown outs in the summer. Never mind adding to the capacity. Maybe night time draw starts to resemble day time draw so there is no more of this peak power offset that you get with solar panels. basically all extra power goes into cars and you still have the problem with electric grid supply.

You also have massive natural gas usage especially in the colder areas. Those have to convert to electric which will add another massive drain. Going to have to go nuclear. Solar is not going to be enough.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       01-28-2021, 6:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
If you want really big picture thinking in 5 to 10 years a lot of people won't need their own car, when they need one you will just call one like an Uber and it will drive itself to you.
Soon to be followed by the boat that will come pick me up and let me surf behind it, of course.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       01-28-2021, 6:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Not gonna lie, a sub 400 mile range is one of the things that turns me off about an electric. Of course that's like 1 out of every 200 trips for me. If there were a super easy way to rent a long distance car for the few times I need it, I'd probably be game.

That said I have an acquaintance that does a 400 mile drive back and forth to southern CA regularly in his model 3. He does have to make one 30 minute stop each way, but he says it's not that bad. In his case though, he has a home at either end of the drive, so he doesn't have to go searching for a second charging station upon arrival at his destination.

99% sure my next car will be electric. Which may make me hold on to the current gassers for a bit longer than I otherwise would.
The biggest problem is you have ZERO ROOM for contingencies in your plans or schedule with a coal car. Think about it. It could even mean life or death running out of power with such a crappy range. Whenís the last time you were ďrunning on fumes?Ē You can always hit the next gas station. Charging stations and getting back on the road puts us back to horse and buggy days. You may as well need to water, feed and rest your horses. Unless you wanna keep a gas generator charging your coal-burning car on the way, youíve no options when it comes to contingencies.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       01-28-2021, 6:42 PM Reply   
Btw, those quick charge stations they put on the way between say, NorCal and SoCal, at Harris Ranch for instance.... Those quick charges kill the long-term life of a battery exponentially.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       01-28-2021, 6:51 PM Reply   
I’ve been working on a job that’s a few hours from my house lately. We just had a big storm in NorCal that did a lot of damage. After arriving to work, I had to turn right back around and head home to address some damage as well as preventing further damage from the storm. If I had to wait for a friggin battery to charge, I’d have been screwed and could have sustained much further damage to my property.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-29-2021, 12:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
I
You also have massive natural gas usage especially in the colder areas. Those have to convert to electric which will add another massive drain. Going to have to go nuclear. Solar is not going to be enough.
Nuclear is a great option, I'm a big fan.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       01-29-2021, 4:50 AM Reply   
Donít worry. Joe has his vaccine plan in place all ready to go. 300 Americans will be vaccinated by fall. I need about 5 Aleve after listening to him try and explain that.



https://www.instagram.com/p/CKoLNrQj...d=67gkp18f3kag
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       01-29-2021, 4:56 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
The biggest problem is you have ZERO ROOM for contingencies in your plans or schedule with a coal car. Think about it. It could even mean life or death running out of power with such a crappy range. Whenís the last time you were ďrunning on fumes?Ē You can always hit the next gas station. Charging stations and getting back on the road puts us back to horse and buggy days. You may as well need to water, feed and rest your horses. Unless you wanna keep a gas generator charging your coal-burning car on the way, youíve no options when it comes to contingencies.
I think we're going to find five years from now that many of these concerns have been addressed. In 2007 streaming movies over netflix seemed crazy. But when was the last time you set foot in (or could even find) a video store? Or played a DVD/VHS?

Right now we are on the cusp of the technology really starting to take off.

In the next 20 years we're going to see a transition to much more onsite PV panels / local battery storage, which will take stress off of the grid. If you can have a battery in your house that's good for 36 hours or so to act as a buffer, that should really help with mid summer AC spikes and whatnot. Even better when you can also charge that battery from your local PV panels to charge your car and avoid drawing on the grid at all on sunny days.

20 years ago some (but by no means all) of us were carrying flip phones and the OG ipod was still on the horizon. A lot can and will change in the next 20.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       01-29-2021, 6:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
What possible argument can one make that the money they earned shouldn’t be passed on to the ones they earned it for ?
Because the world would be a better place if rich people taught their kids to work and be productive rather than concentrating wealth. They must be pretty worthless if they can't get by on $5M tax free dollars.

You guys are quite the snowflakes. Back in my day America conscripted you right out of high school with a govt that you never voted for and forced you to give your life fighting for an Asian country half way around the world. If you think the revolutionaries had it bad with tax without representation, then you should try death without representation. Do you really think we should be all concerned that dead people can't keep control over their money.
Old     (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       01-29-2021, 6:37 AM Reply   
It's a slippery slope

But, if I had to pick a side....

I think it's completely anti American, when if you don't tow the party line, go against the grain, say things that probably shouldn't be said....and most recently, buy stocks that the big boys don't want you buying....then you get banned or censored.

I honestly can't believe that ANYBODY is okay with this. What's next?

Facebook, Twitter, Parlor, Robinhood, Reddit (?)
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       01-29-2021, 7:19 AM Reply   
[QUOTE=fly135;2006646]Because the world would be a better place if rich people taught their kids to work and be productive rather than concentrating wealth. They must be pretty worthless if they can't get by on $5M tax free dollars.

Yeah, starting with Biden and his worthless, crack head criminal of a son.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       01-29-2021, 8:03 AM Reply   
Don’t know how old this is, but it’s in the running for feel-good movie of the year. Hilarious that the idiot who gets hit is wearing his sister’s coat.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LoTFS3g7PNI
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       01-29-2021, 8:04 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ord27 View Post
It's a slippery slope

But, if I had to pick a side....

I think it's completely anti American, when if you don't tow the party line, go against the grain, say things that probably shouldn't be said....and most recently, buy stocks that the big boys don't want you buying....then you get banned or censored.

I honestly can't believe that ANYBODY is okay with this. What's next?

Facebook, Twitter, Parlor, Robinhood, Reddit (?)
Haha robinhood appears to be the victim of its own success.

Ask yourself how robinhood makes money selling "free" trades (or how facebook, twitter, insta, parler etc. make money when they don't charge users for access)?

Hint: the robinhood account holders are not the customers. They are the commodity.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-29-2021, 9:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
Those quick charges kill the long-term life of a battery exponentially.
Maybe 5 years ago, not now.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       01-29-2021, 1:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Maybe 5 years ago, not now.
It was only two years ago I heard a Tesla salesman admit it was a bad idea to charge your batteries like that any more then you absolutely had to.
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       01-29-2021, 1:25 PM Reply   
I travel daily for work. long miles. long day. i laugh at my fellow reps who have electric cars, all stressed out, always late, always running out of juice, and always saying they never hit the mark and are always estimating on the high side. so it says 200 miles, its dead at 160. things like that are worthless until they can get 1000 miles per charge.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       01-29-2021, 1:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
I travel daily for work. long miles. long day. i laugh at my fellow reps who have electric cars, all stressed out, always late, always running out of juice, and always saying they never hit the mark and are always estimating on the high side. so it says 200 miles, its dead at 160. things like that are worthless until they can get 1000 miles per charge.
Sounds like my old Sony Walkman cassette player.
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       01-29-2021, 2:06 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
Sounds like my old Sony Walkman cassette player.
i would buy an electric tomorrow if it would give the range. I have had multiple e350 diesels due to gas milage, and an not against electric cars. but lets not twist the facts, they are really more expensive to run, and expensive to buy, and also difficult to manage for many who do not have access to easy charging. It will get there, but its going to take along time, and it will not eliminate fuel but swap gas for electric and will require a lot of natural resources to charge all the things we are "charging" these days
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       01-29-2021, 2:32 PM Reply   
Its just Paul Bunyan Vs. The chainsaw once again. Cars were more expensive than horses back in the day. We didnt have the highway system or gas stations on every corner either. Your smartphone is a better computer than we had when we sent a man to the moon. Tell me one thing that wasnt improved over time. You are not being asked to make the decision today, do it in 10 years. No need to be afraid of progress nor jump on the bandwagon before you are ready.

Hey Ralph, whats it like driving your Tesla?
Ive seen Johns posts on his E bikes, I just rode a Specialized E-bike, now i get it. Thing is amazing.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-29-2021, 3:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
It was only two years ago I heard a Tesla salesman admit it was a bad idea to charge your batteries like that any more then you absolutely had to.
My sister's cousins neighbor told me surfing turned you gay.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-29-2021, 3:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
Hey Ralph, whats it like driving your Tesla?
You have to try one, I could tell you how amazing it is but until you experience it you wouldn't believe me. I'm never going back to petrol, electric is just so much better.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       01-29-2021, 4:32 PM Reply   
Was a huge fan of my i3s. And if there’s one way that Tesla is like other car makers it’s that salesmen never know anything lol
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       01-29-2021, 4:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
My sister's cousins neighbor told me surfing turned you gay.

I donít know about that, but moobs are a scientifically proven side effect.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       01-29-2021, 7:47 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
My sister's cousins neighbor told me surfing turned you gay.
Still butt hurt that you bought the ugly, redheaded stepchild of the Tesla family, huh? Poor guy. Maybe if you apply yourself a little more, you'll be able to buy the real one.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       01-29-2021, 7:56 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
You have to try one, I could tell you how amazing it is but until you experience it you wouldn't believe me. I'm never going back to petrol, electric is just so much better.
I have 4 neighbors with them. I've ridden in them. I even considered buying one for my bride. My biggest takeaway is they have torque to spare, but like you, a ginger, they have no soul. I realize you can't really assign human attributes to a vehicle (or libtards), but there's just no unique personality to them. No sound. No growl. No soul.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       01-29-2021, 8:08 PM Reply   
You donít t get to pass down your hard earned cash to your kids , but good ol Nancy can get insider trading info and get hers. Amazing how she knew just when to buy a million dollars worth of some Tesla stock. Itís almost as she new a big announcement was coming from
bumbling Joe





https://www.google.com/amp/amp.washi...ses-ethics-qu/
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       01-29-2021, 8:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
Because the world would be a better place if rich people taught their kids to work and be productive rather than concentrating wealth. They must be pretty worthless if they can't get by on $5M tax free dollars.

You guys are quite the snowflakes. Back in my day America conscripted you right out of high school with a govt that you never voted for and forced you to give your life fighting for an Asian country half way around the world. If you think the revolutionaries had it bad with tax without representation, then you should try death without representation. Do you really think we should be all concerned that dead people can't keep control over their money.
So all rich peopleís kids are useless wastes of spaces ? Thatís a big assumption there. I guess all those kids who grew up with money only to excel and create companies and jobs for people across the world donít count. Call me shocked you think a majority of kids that come from money are pieces of garbage.

No you should be concerned the government wants to take your money you idiot. The usual double sided talk from you Libs. Complaining the government took your right to choose on whether to fight a war in Asia away , now supporting the government to take your money away.

Yea you make complete sense .


The world would be a better place of the Democrats held people accountable and taught them to work and be productive rather then allowing people to be leeches off the government *** by giving them everyone elseís money to survive donít you think?
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       01-29-2021, 11:18 PM Reply   
[QUOTE=95sn;2006659]
Hey Ralph, whats it like driving your Tesla?

It's like pooping while having to hold a steering wheel.......and then learning there's no toilet paper left.


Could you have asked a dumber question?

It's like driving a car with no soul. Especially if it's white.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       01-30-2021, 4:44 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
You donít t get to pass down your hard earned cash to your kids , but good ol Nancy can get insider trading info and get hers. Amazing how she knew just when to buy a million dollars worth of some Tesla stock. Itís almost as she new a big announcement was coming from
bumbling Joe





https://www.google.com/amp/amp.washi...ses-ethics-qu/
Insider trading laws don't apply to members of congress. They could fix it and never do, no matter which party is in power.
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       01-30-2021, 5:03 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
Donít know how old this is, but itís in the running for feel-good movie of the year. Hilarious that the idiot who gets hit is wearing his sisterís coat.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LoTFS3g7PNI
omg, and the evil black and white, jesus lovers, who are "racists" helped the wacko
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       01-30-2021, 5:03 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
So all rich peopleís kids are useless wastes of spaces ? Thatís a big assumption there. I guess all those kids who grew up with money only to excel and create companies and jobs for people across the world donít count. Call me shocked you think a majority of kids that come from money are pieces of garbage.
I just call you an idiot.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-30-2021, 12:06 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
It's like driving a car with no soul. Especially if it's white.
EV's aren't for everyone, like dick flavored icecream or fisting your boy friend petrol powered cars will be around for those that want them.
Old     (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       01-30-2021, 4:25 PM Reply   
Had Trump done what Pelosi did, it would be yet another reason for them to want to impeach. The hypocrisy is what gets to me. I know, I say that a lot
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       01-30-2021, 5:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ord27 View Post
Had Trump done what Pelosi did, it would be yet another reason for them to want to impeach. The hypocrisy is what gets to me. I know, I say that a lot
They own the media. This wonít get any play time. It just goes to show how easy it is to be a libtard. Just turn off your brain and take whatís fed to you on every channel.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       01-30-2021, 5:39 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
EV's aren't for everyone, like dick flavored icecream or fisting your boy friend petrol powered cars will be around for those that want them.
Besides the gas cars, I didnít realize those things were ďa thingĒ for you. Sorry I canít relate to your strange world. Good luck with your ice cream. Donít forget to glove up. Maybe you can use Ali Gís idea that he tried to pitch to Trump and do double duty with the ice cream glove?
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       01-31-2021, 7:31 AM Reply   
What did pelosi do this time? A quick search just showed this.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=uxbndlbing
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       01-31-2021, 9:16 AM Reply   
Of course you couldn’t find Pelosi’s crooked deal info, nor do you choose to acknowledge it or comment on it. It doesn’t fit your warped view . Just the same BS from you as usual. Don’t answer any questions and never respond to anything , just lob bull**** news links. If we we’re to start arresting everyone based on social media posts , the liberals would lose half their voting core.

I guess you forgot all those BLM social media posters calling to kill cops, maybe your forgot all the acres Lib housewife’s and pussycat hat wearing lunatics calling to kill trump on social media. Love to know how many of them were tracked down and arrested by federal authorities. I can tell you in Chicago ZERO! Here we go with the double standard from you again.

Still waiting on the answer if 13yr old boys belong getting naked in locker room with 13 yr old girls . Still waiting for you to explain how an 8yr old should have the ability to go for sex change therapy and be allowed to transform into a girl legally.


This looks eerily familiar these days.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/finance...175920193.html


Name:  D25B52DF-6812-43F7-9B8B-16718F9FD82D.jpg
Views: 245
Size:  124.8 KB




,

Last edited by xstarrider; 01-31-2021 at 9:26 AM.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       01-31-2021, 9:24 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
EV's aren't for everyone, like dick flavored icecream or fisting your boy friend petrol powered cars will be around for those that want them.
Not according to the left , their EPA standards and their vehicle plan. They’re plan already calls for the elimination of gas vehicles .


Maybe you missed this bill from the LUNACY LEFT

California Gov. Gavin Newsom signed an order Wednesday that aims to end the sale of new gasoline and diesel-powered passenger cars in the state by 2035

These are the types of statements , projections , and idiocy that litter their party. It’s a complete fallacy and throwing billions at it is mental retardation,


More mental defects

Federal legislation was proposed in both the House of Representatives and the Senate that could radically shift the way the U.S. tackles its climate crisis. The Zero-Emission Vehicles Act would eliminate the sale of gas-powered passenger cars in the U.S. by 2040.



How about focusing on some legislation that actually has substance.

Biden will be going all in again on this nonsense

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5...mpression=true

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