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Old     (chilidog)      Join Date: Dec 2007       06-16-2009, 12:00 PM Reply   
1) Do Jabsco ballast puppies need to be mounted below the water line? Can they pull a draft vertically about a foot? I have an easy mounting spot for my rear sacs where the swim step bolts up but it is about 6" off the floor.

2) 3/4" or 1"?? seems like 3/4" fittings are more prevalent

3) Thru hulls...stainless, plastic, chrome,
I like chrome, 2 will be under the transom, 3 vents on the side, 3 drains on the side

4) I have launch pad vdrive 440#, are there any barbed connections I can hose clamp at the bag, or should i convert to the fly high quick connect fittings for my fill/drain and vent lines

5) Good source for all this stuff (lowe's, depot or online), I looked at wakemakers.com and they seem to have most everything, just not sure what to buy yet

6) I need 6 check valves 3 to reroute water from drain side of pump out the side so I know it's done draining, 3 on the drain lines so i don't suck air when filling. all the 3/4 checks at lowes are non threaded pvc, anywhere i can get threaded or even better barbed 1 way check valves

7)Wiring loom: can i buy a 6 to 9 wire loom for my pumps to run up to my switches at the dash?

8) Safety- I plan to have manual shutoffs at each thru hull at the transom, do they need to be brass? any other must do safety issues on a diy ballast system?


Thanks for the time, I know there are alot but I have never done this before

What I plan is two 440s in the vdrive storage, locker sac, and probably some lead up in the bow
each sac will have its own reversible ballast puppy. oh yeah its an 06 sanger v215
Old     (lovin_the_wake)      Join Date: Jul 2007       06-16-2009, 12:34 PM Reply   
1) No

2) I use 1" for the fill and drain and 3/4" for overflow

3) Match em to your current thru-hulls mine are all black plastic

4) Fly High FTW

5) Got all my stuff from Wakeside, Buywake, Lowes, and Homedepot

6) ???

7) Dunno. I made my own harness for mine

8) I just have one it's a big PVC shut off and it's on the thru-hull on the bottom of the hull
Old     (lovin_the_wake)      Join Date: Jul 2007       06-16-2009, 12:41 PM Reply   
8) Don't mount the pumps where any fumes can reach it
Old     (chilidog)      Join Date: Dec 2007       06-16-2009, 12:44 PM Reply   
Mont-

Thanks man, the only current thru hulls i have are the fuel vent and the bilge which are all stainless, but at 20 bucks a pop for stainless maybe i;ll go chrome. How did you adapt the 1" hose to the flyhigh fittings aren't they 3/4"? The jabsco is a 1/2"ID inlet/outlet so i guess i just need to stack a 1/2" - 3/4" to a 3/4" to a 1"

The check valve question confuses even me, but I found some on west marine that are barbed but damn they are expensive!! any type of checks work better than others? spring vs. ball etc.

I feel like this is day 1 of the fire academy, this is a hose, this is a fitting, remember there are no stupid questions, just stupid people who ask questions
Old     (lovin_the_wake)      Join Date: Jul 2007       06-16-2009, 12:56 PM Reply   
They have 3/4" and 1" and the simer pumps I used have 3/4" fittings on them

As for rerouting the water for when you drain, why wouldn't you just drain out of the same hole that you fill with ? All my bags fill and drain out of the same thru-hull in the bottom of my boat
Old     (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       06-16-2009, 1:01 PM Reply   
I agree with Montgomery's responses except the following:

4) Yes, you can use a barbed end with one of those worm pipe clamps that is made out of metal.

8) I prefer a brass valve as they are much less likely to break. I wanted something as bulletproof as possible. If the pvc valve breaks at ANY time your going to be taking on a LOT of water very quickly.
Old     (chilidog)      Join Date: Dec 2007       06-16-2009, 1:17 PM Reply   
thanks for the input fellas

I initially wanted to drain out of the transom, but I decided to go with check valves to route it out the side so I hear it draining and know when to shut off the pumps. I do realize it has run dry protection but don't want to use that every time, and I don't want to have to look at the bags to be sure when to shut off.

That being said if you can hear them change pitch and you know when they are running dry then i may reconsider. 2 less holes in the boat and alot less piping and 2 check valves would be alot easier to setup, but I don't want to have to always worry if they drained all the way,

Like I said i have very limited experience with ballast and have only thrown the pump over the side or been in a boat with the stock set up, but i don't think I'll ever land a back roll until i have ballast
Old     (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       06-16-2009, 1:26 PM Reply   
If you put the inlets on the transom, you won't be able to fill underway. This is a huge shortcoming of some ballast systems IMO.
Old     (madison_boarder)      Join Date: Apr 2006       06-16-2009, 1:30 PM Reply   
#6 - Menards carries them, if you have Menards where you live.
Old     (chilidog)      Join Date: Dec 2007       06-16-2009, 1:44 PM Reply   
I think there is a Menards in the bay area

trace I hear you on not filling while underway, I plan to fill the center ballast off the raw water intake so I can do that, it seems to me that we always stop for around 5 minutes before riding to get boards down etc, and we are just sitting which is when i could fill the rears. I wasn't sure if running three pumps off the raw water would starve the system and heat up the impeller and motor while underway, i think 1 would only do 12 gpm and the sea pump is 50 gpm...

Montgomery are your bags all hidden and how do you know when to shut off your pumps??
Old     (lovin_the_wake)      Join Date: Jul 2007       06-16-2009, 1:59 PM Reply   
Yes they are hidden and water starts shooting out of the overflow thru-hulls when they're full as for emptying I usually wait until we have some down time so I can hear the pumps and not run them dry. Mine also fill through the raw water intake
Old     (chilidog)      Join Date: Dec 2007       06-16-2009, 2:04 PM Reply   
do you have any pics of how you tapped into the raw water intake?
Old     (ghostrider_2)      Join Date: Aug 2004       06-16-2009, 2:33 PM Reply   
Scott, I am finishing up adding an intergraded bow sack in my 05 V215 to the current triple ballast set-up. I got my parts from Home depot at a fraction of the cost of online. Granted I didn't use quick disconnect, but I don't plan on taking them out. the threads on Fly High are 3/4, I am using 1 inch line so I used a set-up. I will be posting pics tonight or tomorrow.

Check and see if your Sanger has the 2 chrome inlets by the exhaust, these are what is used for the stock rear with the pumps mounted just inside of them.
Old     (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       06-16-2009, 6:26 PM Reply   
If I had to choose, I would have left/right sacks able to fill underway so you can get rid of wash on one side during a pull. But, I would try to find places on the bottom for a couple more thruhulls first.

Also, listen to what M-dizzle says about brass below the waterline. Very important. You need brass shutoff ball valves as the first thing attached to the brass thruhulls as well.

I used the raw intake for 2 Simers for several years with no problems, but no experience with 3.
Old     (bjeremi)      Join Date: Mar 2006       06-16-2009, 6:30 PM Reply   
I know you cant get all the fly high type fittings here but you can get some on the cheap

https://www.flow-rite.com/store/marine/retail/marinestoreretail.html
Old     (lovin_the_wake)      Join Date: Jul 2007       06-16-2009, 7:39 PM Reply   
I have pics of it somewhere I'll see if I can dig em up
Old     (lovin_the_wake)      Join Date: Jul 2007       06-16-2009, 7:51 PM Reply   
Not the best pics in the world but you get the idea

Upload
Upload
Old     (burke)      Join Date: Jun 2007       06-16-2009, 9:26 PM Reply   
To continue the questions - how is everybody handling the straight thread on the thru hull?

All the ball valves I've found are NPT (tapered thread), which won't fully thread onto a NPS (straight thread). I've found a thru hull through Marine Hardware that is straight thread which blends into a tapered thread. That seems to be the only place that carries them, and it would work with a Home Depot/Lowes ball valve.

How has everybody else handled this?
Old     (bjeremi)      Join Date: Mar 2006       06-16-2009, 9:40 PM Reply   
I think the NPS NPT thing is a dirty little secret that most people just don't think about. A true seacock, I think that's what they are called will be NPT. Those things sure aren't cheap. Hence the reason why alot of people use pvc elbows and shutoffs. Its easier to get a few more threads out of them. Some people have actually grinded the OD threads a little on the thru-hulls to achieve a slight taper affect to get more revolutions. Not that great of a solution, but its better than nothing. phat n cincy (incredible diy install on a 205V) did it that way and hasn't seemed to have any problems.
Old     (drknute3)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-17-2009, 5:49 AM Reply   
The Jabsco pumps do not have to be below the water line as they are self priming. they can also be mounted in the engine compartment as they are ignition protected, but the Simers are not.

If using the jabsco's, I would use 1" hose because it will fit right aver the housing inlet/outlet and you wont need a fitting at the pump.

For wiring, I used a 10/4 RV extension cord from Menards for about $40. Is has 4 10gauge wires in it. You can use 2 of them for leads from the battery to the switch and the other 2 from the switch back to the pump. I have about 10-12 feet of this left if you want some.

I agree nothing but bronze below the waterline including thru hulls and ball valves. Stainless or chrome ones will be OK above the waterline for vents and such, but stay with bronze below.

The NPS-NPT issue is a potential serious one. You can thread them together, but eventually they will leak. I have a contact that can make fittings that are female NPS on one side for the thru hull and male NPT on the other side for the ball valve. They are solid bronze and cost me about $17 apiece to be made. If anyone wants the contact for these fittings, send an email to this guy and tell him I sent you.

jon@bayareabiodieselsupply.com

Only other real solution is a true seacock.

For PVC check valves and fittings for them, check out www.flexpvc.com Thats where I got all of mine. Get the swing type valves as they do not restrict flow nearly as much as the spring type valves.

As I mentioned, I have about 10-12 feet of the 10/4 wiring left over from my ballast install as well as a 1.5" bronze thru hull if you are interested.

Good luck
Old     (lovin_the_wake)      Join Date: Jul 2007       06-17-2009, 7:23 AM Reply   
Yeah that's right Jabsco's are ignition protected huh ?
Old     (dirtysparks)      Join Date: May 2004       06-17-2009, 8:49 AM Reply   
This is exactly what you need for NPS(thru-hull) to NPT(ball valve)


quote:



Combine NPS threads at the bottom and NPT threads at the top to eliminate common (and dangerous) thread mismatches when in-line "ball" valves are screwed onto thru hulls. Triangular base provides strain relief to the hull.

* Complete with bonding screw and eye for safety tie
* Cast bronze







http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/269295/377%20710%201507%204294967031/69/Fittings%20/Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377%20710%201507%204294967031&Ne=69&Ntt=Fittin gs%20&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&page=CategoryDisp layLevel1&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=11&subdeptNum= 70&classNum=71

Upload
Old     (burke)      Join Date: Jun 2007       06-17-2009, 12:08 PM Reply   
I've found another good solution to the thread-miss match issue. Marine Hardware makes a mushroom thru hull (http://www.goodboatgear.com/detail/4069/%20Mushroom%20Thru-Hulls) that is NPS and fades to NPT. With this thru hull, you can use all the standard bronze marine fittings - ball valves and street elbows - that have a NPT thread. And it's pretty inexpensive too.
Old     (drknute3)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-17-2009, 12:29 PM Reply   
Wish I would have found those when I did my install. Would've saved me alot of time and trouble having an adapter made.

Good find!!!
Old     (bjeremi)      Join Date: Mar 2006       06-17-2009, 12:48 PM Reply   
Man those swing check valves are a good find. Thats pretty cheap as compared to what they were.
Old     (dirtysparks)      Join Date: May 2004       06-17-2009, 1:46 PM Reply   
Burke, those things are cheap! I think I paid around 20 bucks each. Only issue I see with those is if you want to cut it down then you have the same issue.
Old     (burke)      Join Date: Jun 2007       06-17-2009, 4:41 PM Reply   
Yeah, I was amazed at how cheap they were. It's only about 2.5" long, so I think I can get away without cutting it. But your right, trimming one of those would kill it's usefulness.

And I second the other post regarding buying Flow-rite/Fly High fittings directly from www.flow-rite.com. You'll pay $1.50 per fitting whereas most retailers will charge $4-6 per fitting.

(Message edited by Burke on June 17, 2009)
Old     (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       06-17-2009, 6:39 PM Reply   
Unless you store your boat in a wet slip without a lift, the NPT / straight thread problem is not an issue IMO. Use plenty of teflon tape, and you should always make sure your bilge pump is working anyway.
Old     (bjeremi)      Join Date: Mar 2006       06-17-2009, 7:05 PM Reply   
Yeah pretty much the only thing you can't get at flowrite are the special bag side fittings. But that can easily be remedied.

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