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Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-20-2015, 3:00 PM Reply   
I recall many years ago hearing about a small company building boats based on the old CC2001 hull.

Do any of you recall this and remember the company name?
Old     (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       07-20-2015, 3:07 PM Reply   
Standard boats I believe.
Old     (LYNRDSKYNRD)      Join Date: Sep 2012       07-20-2015, 3:13 PM Reply   
Yep.....Standard Boat Company
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-20-2015, 4:36 PM Reply   
Yes. That is them.

http://www.waterskimag.com/features/...tandard-boats/

I wonder if they are still in business?
Old     (tripsw)      Join Date: May 2006       07-20-2015, 8:21 PM Reply   
Don't think so. At least not making boats. They're probably still making other products using the same procedure as they did for their boats.
Too bad though!
Old     (skiboarder)      Join Date: Oct 2006       07-21-2015, 8:27 AM Reply   
I'm a Malibu guy through and through, but I have always wanted a re-ferbed late 1970s ski. They are tiny, but somehow still look tough.
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004 Location: Tyler       07-21-2015, 8:30 AM Reply   
looks they got all the press the could handle and never made a boat a production boat. same 2 demo boats in the marketing stuff, nothing since 2010
Old     (cowwboy)      Join Date: Jul 2008       07-21-2015, 11:06 AM Reply   
I had high hopes for their little diesel model also.
Hate to see the small start up not make it.
Old     (phillywakeboarder)      Join Date: Sep 2008       07-21-2015, 11:47 AM Reply   
That would be a tough business. The ski boats of the 70s and 80s are cool (my dad still has the 86 mastercraft I grew up with) but they are very, very unpractical - 3 people is a crowd, and anything more than 6 inch chop beats the $#*! out of you. And originals in good shape that run flawlessly can be had for 5k.
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004 Location: Tyler       07-21-2015, 12:34 PM Reply   
at the time, tow boat prices had been rising for 10 years. Boarders were crying for a more affordable option with a meaty wake like 2001 had. there was also a v drive option that was never produced. seems crazy now, but this was before affordable vdrives were everywhere
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-21-2015, 12:48 PM Reply   
With that 84" beam, it is pretty easy to make a meaty wake with less ballast and less gas.

Somebody made this vdrive (found on the web)...
Attached Images
 
Old     (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: SF Bay Area       07-21-2015, 1:13 PM Reply   
^^^^ what a beaut!
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004 Location: Tyler       07-21-2015, 1:16 PM Reply   
^truth!
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004 Location: Tyler       07-21-2015, 2:08 PM Reply   
that one was done by a guy on planetnautique IIRC. Unfortunately, I think he had to sell to cover some medical bills. ridiculous amount of hours went into it and he didn't get to enjoy it for too long
Old     (tripsw)      Join Date: May 2006       07-21-2015, 3:06 PM Reply   
Was someone on Correctcraftfan.com I think, not planetnautique. It's a beauty for sure! IMO; had Standard made a V-Drive instead of the DD, they might still had been around.
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-21-2015, 3:28 PM Reply   
I am half tempted to buy a CC 2001 and rebuild it while converting it to a vdrive.
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004 Location: Tyler       07-22-2015, 9:16 AM Reply   
would be a cool project!
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-29-2015, 1:23 PM Reply   
I can do most of the the work but finding the time may be difficult.

I would hire out gelcoat and vinyl work.

Do you think I could install a new modern fuel injected motor with a modern vdrive? Modern motors are so much better.

Do you think I could install the current CC tower? I dig that tower but I am sure it is too wide for a 2001.
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       07-29-2015, 1:50 PM Reply   
I've always thought it would be a rad project to convert a 2001 to vdrive
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-29-2015, 6:16 PM Reply   
Yes, I am very tempted. A small and narrow closed bow v-drive. A big motor in back and weight in front to balance the boat. A natural and efficient beautiful wakeboat. Quiet the contrast to the massive hogs that are being produced today.
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004 Location: Tyler       08-03-2015, 3:17 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddad View Post
I can do most of the the work but finding the time may be difficult.

I would hire out gelcoat and vinyl work.

Do you think I could install a new modern fuel injected motor with a modern vdrive? Modern motors are so much better.

Do you think I could install the current CC tower? I dig that tower but I am sure it is too wide for a 2001.
Yes. Sounds perfect. Wouldnt need a beast of a motor for that hull
Old     (joshugan)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-03-2015, 3:47 PM Reply   
I had a 2001 and was interested in converting it to a v-drive. Take this with a grain of salt since I'm giving it third hand but I heard that V-Drive 2001 (pictured above) handled poorly. So that may have been an issue for Standard.
Old     (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       08-03-2015, 5:34 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshugan View Post
I had a 2001 and was interested in converting it to a v-drive. Take this with a grain of salt since I'm giving it third hand but I heard that V-Drive 2001 (pictured above) handled poorly. So that may have been an issue for Standard.
Standard never built a vdrive - but maybe that's not what you were saying?

Hard to believe the v drive handled that different unless it was totally unweighted. Which it looks like it probBly was... Fuel tank and engine in different spots. Would change the COG for sure.
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       08-04-2015, 6:46 AM Reply   
Probably would help to add tracking fins to it.
Old     (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       08-04-2015, 10:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardjnky4 View Post
Probably would help to add tracking fins to it.
2001s have tracking fins...

EDIT: A vdrive 2001 might need them in a different location - most likely aft from where they were stock.

Or do you mean to say the gent who built the vdrive 2001 removed the tracking fins?
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       08-04-2015, 10:12 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebordr11 View Post
2001s have tracking fins...

EDIT: A vdrive 2001 might need them in a different location - most likely aft from where they were stock.

Or do you mean to say the gent who built the vdrive 2001 removed the tracking fins?
add additional or modify existing ... whatever, if the boat handles poorly there are probably steps that can be taken to make it better and tracking fin location and and count is where where my gut reaction started.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-04-2015, 11:02 AM Reply   
If one had a Nice well lit workspace rebuilding a stock 2001 into a V-Drive like in the photo above would be a very cool (winter time) project. IMO a project like this starts with a Garage that's very well equipped. Well ventilated and Lit, if you had a garage that you could sneak away into or after work/dinner you could chip away at it night by night and get it handled. But having to drive to some garage to do work ect or working outside in your drive way Forgetabout it!!! I think Chris A would be a good person to advise you on a potential project
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       08-04-2015, 11:05 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
If one had a Nice well lit workspace rebuilding a stock 2001 into a V-Drive like in the photo above would be a very cool (winter time) project. IMO a project like this starts with a Garage that's very well equipped. Well ventilated and Lit, if you had a garage that you could sneak away into or after work/dinner you could chip away at it night by night and get it handled. But having to drive to some garage to do work ect or working outside in your drive way Forgetabout it!!! I think Chris A would be a good person to advise you on a potential project
agreed 100%
Old     (Woody689)      Join Date: Aug 2015       08-06-2015, 3:29 AM Reply   
I think a budget friendly boat company would be awesome. A wake specific boat, no bells or whistles. 20 foot boat, manual ballast, cruise control, and a few seats. For under 30k. I want new so I am not buying someone else's problems. And it should be reliable. I don't need heated seats. I don't need a radio. Bare bones fun.. Is that to much to ask?
Old     (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       08-06-2015, 4:53 AM Reply   
Build it Jay... There is not market for that boat - not to mention no margins. You'd have to sell a ton.
Old     (Woody689)      Join Date: Aug 2015       08-06-2015, 5:44 AM Reply   
I can't justify paying more for a boat than I paid for my house
Old     (Woody689)      Join Date: Aug 2015       08-06-2015, 6:09 AM Reply   
I know boats are for the wealthy.
Old     (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-06-2015, 6:16 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody689 View Post
I think a budget friendly boat company would be awesome. A wake specific boat, no bells or whistles. 20 foot boat, manual ballast, cruise control, and a few seats. For under 30k. I want new so I am not buying someone else's problems. And it should be reliable. I don't need heated seats. I don't need a radio. Bare bones fun.. Is that to much to ask?
I think under 30k for a 20' boat (regardless of content) is a bit unrealistic, but the rest of what your asking for might be answered soon by Bryant with their "wake tractor."

I was/am in the same frame of mind that you are. That's why I ended up with a leftover X1 at a closeout price. I just wanted a simple boat. Standard had a good idea, I would have loved to see a v-drive. That, and ditch the weird bow cooler door thing they added...
Old     (Woody689)      Join Date: Aug 2015       08-06-2015, 6:29 AM Reply   
Wow I just looked up the wake tractor. Sounds like something to check out. I am not sure about the electronic control stuff
Old     (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: NJ       08-06-2015, 6:36 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody689 View Post
I think a budget friendly boat company would be awesome. A wake specific boat, no bells or whistles. 20 foot boat, manual ballast, cruise control, and a few seats. For under 30k. I want new so I am not buying someone else's problems. And it should be reliable. I don't need heated seats. I don't need a radio. Bare bones fun.. Is that to much to ask?
It would be nice if there was a reasonably priced more bare bones new wake boat, maybe something that could pass the Taurus Test (around $30k these days?). Thing is heated seats are cheap (like $200 or so for two seats, plus minimal labor time when you're building the boat). A basic radio and 2 or 4 speakers is cheap. Not sure what all the fancy things are on new boats that drive the price up. Any thoughts? Curved glass is expensive. Fancy electronics and LCD touchscreen displays are expensive (hardware costs are lowering, but licensing, design, etc.). Fancy engine electronics are expensive, as are catalytic converter manifolds/risers. Those things add up, but I don't imagine they add up to $40k+ of savings.

The flip side is who is going to buy a $30k SN2001? You can buy a rotted out one, DIY restore and have a very nice SN2001 for under $10k. Or buy one already restored and be in for similar or a few grand more. I'll spend half as much and have a better boat, as I'd wager most people in the sub $30k boat market would.

Want an open bow and a little more room? Same deal but you get a Supra or a Sport Nautique fully restored and upgraded for well under $30k. I guess some guys would rather drive a brand new Prius than a restored big block 4 speed Fairlane that costs half as much, but is the market that pays more for lower performance enough to sustain that model in a limited market of inboard towboats? Doubt it, or Standard would still be around.
Old     (Woody689)      Join Date: Aug 2015       08-06-2015, 7:20 AM Reply   
Ok using your analogy, restoring a fairlane right would cost twice what the Prius cost
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       08-06-2015, 8:02 AM Reply   
Asking for a brand new sub-30k wakeboat is like asking for a unicorn. It doesn't exist for good reason.

1. Hull molds are brutally expensive, not to mention that A LOT of R&D goes into designing a hull that would throw a good wake. Just think, a handful of engineers and designers are being paid at minimum (in reality, probably way higher) $50k each for a year's worth of work. That cost must be recovered.
2. Engines packages are also VERY expensive. A brand new engine, V-Drive, Transmission, Prop Shaft, Strut, Prop and computer probably costs AT LEAST $15k to put in the boat. That's half the cost right there. And consumers continue to demand more pulling power for more ballast.
3. Upholstery is time consuming to produce. Sewing is slow and it takes a skilled worker.
4. All the little things add up big time.
5. The manufacturer and the dealer still need to turn a profit and cover their respective costs (facilities, employees, health insurance, etc...)

Last edited by boardjnky4; 08-06-2015 at 8:04 AM.
Old     (DenverRider)      Join Date: Feb 2013       08-06-2015, 8:08 AM Reply   
Marketing marketing marketing. If nobody knows about it, then it doesn't matter how cheap it is. Word of mouth doesn't work until people have actually purchased your boat. This is probably one of the bigger up front costs for a manufacturer. It's the reason sales people often get paid more than engineers. Add to that the fact that after it's all said and done there will probably be a much nicer used boat that your potential buyer can get for less and you have a failure.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       08-06-2015, 8:10 AM Reply   
Someone needs to buy the old 205v and/or 210 molds and do just that.

Ballast, switches instead of screens, basic seats, basic tower, windshield etc. it can be done and get you into the sub 50k range.

There's a stupid amount of mark up on these boats: we're taking well over 100% mark up from build cost to MSRP. They do it because they can get it.


We need more MB/Sanger/Axis type boats


Just another reason cable wakeboarding will be/is taking over
Old     (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       08-06-2015, 8:35 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
Someone needs to buy the old 205v and/or 210 molds and do just that.

Ballast, switches instead of screens, basic seats, basic tower, windshield etc. it can be done and get you into the sub 50k range.

There's a stupid amount of mark up on these boats: we're taking well over 100% mark up from build cost to MSRP. They do it because they can get it.


We need more MB/Sanger/Axis type boats


Just another reason cable wakeboarding will be/is taking over
Doesn't matter if a brand new boat costs 5k or 50k, people don't have that money, a truck to pull it, or a place to store it, which is why more people are going to the cable than buying boats.

You'll also never reach any reasonable economies of scale being a small producer. The amount of work you'd have into each boat - even if you and one other person did all of the work yourself, you'd probably make 5-10grand per boat. Sell 10 in a year? Good luck.

Woody, if you want a brand new boat for 30 grand, buy a used malibu wakesetter VLX for 20ish and pay someone 10 grand to make it brand new. Rebuilt engine, full buff/gelcoat repair, totally brand new interior and restored trailer.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       08-06-2015, 8:43 AM Reply   
I'm aware, I am saying some other boat company trying to get into the wake game, Bryant, bayliner, whoever, could probably turn and burn old 205v hulls, if MC would sell the mold like Malibu used to do to MB, for a decent priced wake machine
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004 Location: Tyler       08-06-2015, 10:09 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardjnky4 View Post
Asking for a brand new sub-30k wakeboat is like asking for a unicorn. It doesn't exist for good reason.

1. Hull molds are brutally expensive, not to mention that A LOT of R&D goes into designing a hull that would throw a good wake. Just think, a handful of engineers and designers are being paid at minimum (in reality, probably way higher) $50k each for a year's worth of work. That cost must be recovered.
Kinda funny that old ski hulls (2001 and 205) that were designed to leave as little wake as possible are shockingly close to the right hull shape
Old     (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: NJ       08-06-2015, 10:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody689 View Post
Ok using your analogy, restoring a fairlane right would cost twice what the Prius cost
Not a chance. You're looking at $10k-$20k depending on what you start with. CJ, Thunderbolt, and other rare and desirable low production cars are not the choice to get a better value than a Prius or other new car. Concours restoration to is also not the most cost effective or practical for a daily driver. Like older inboard, most people will make improvements and upgrades to an older car if it gets a lot of use.
Old     (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       08-06-2015, 11:25 AM Reply   
Why does everyone on wakeworld think that the general public (or anyone) is looking for a new, bare bones, small, basic, wakeboard specific boat? And why do they think it's a good business idea?

PEOPLE, open you eyes. Surfing is what currently sells boats right now whether you like it or not. And it's selling a SH*t ton of boats too. The public is looking for more space, larger wakes, and more features. And they are paying for them. Plus a $150k boat has a lot more room for profits than a $30k boat.

Like someone mentioned above, if you sold 20 of these "$30k" boats, with at best a $5k profit per boat, that equates to $100k. How in the world could you run a dealership, pay employees and offer service with that kind of income?
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       08-06-2015, 11:27 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd1 View Post
Kinda funny that old ski hulls (2001 and 205) that were designed to leave as little wake as possible are shockingly close to the right hull shape
yes and no. In the rear of the boat, YES. I truely believe that a flatter transom equals an easier to clean-up wake.

In the front half of the hull, no. This is where new boats are getting it right. You NEED mass and running surface in the front of the boat to displace as much water as possible. Note that I don't necessarily mean weight, but size and volume.

Also, wider beams are much more common now, and something tells me that the beam relative to the overall length affects the wake shape.

Last edited by boardjnky4; 08-06-2015 at 11:30 AM.
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       08-06-2015, 11:29 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 501s View Post
Why does everyone on wakeworld think that the general public (or anyone) is looking for a new, bare bones, small, basic, wakeboard specific boat? And why do they think it's a good business idea?

PEOPLE, open you eyes. Surfing is what currently sells boats right now whether you like it or not. And it's selling a SH*t ton of boats too. The public is looking for more space, larger wakes, and more features. And they are paying for them. Plus a $150k boat has a lot more room for profits than a $30k boat.

Like someone mentioned above, if you sold 20 of these "$30k" boats, with at best a $5k profit per boat, that equates to $100k. How in the world could you run a dealership, pay employees and offer service with that kind of income?
The explosion of Axis sales tells me that people want new boats at lower cost. Agreed on surfability, though.

in the end it's just a game of payments. Long loan terms with low rates are driving prices up. If rates go up and loans become strict, prices will go back down.

It's irrelevant to the conversation for the most part, but I do see a lot more Moomba's and Axis' these days than I used to.
Old     (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: NJ       08-06-2015, 1:05 PM Reply   
Just looked at new I/O "competition" for a wake boat. maybe a casual skier or boarder who grew up with friends or family with beater boats would look at a common boat they see, such as Sea Ray. A Sea Ray 210 SLX with the only upgraded options being a Chevy 350, cover, tower, board racks, and mirror lists just over $52k. FWIW they charge over $8k for the tower and racks. For a beater I/O a Monster tower and whatever racks for well under $2k would be more sensible.

Another common boat, Bayliner 195 with the highest output tiny six banger they offer (no V8 power offered) and tower/wake package is about $39k.

For anyone primarily concerned about water sports a $30k brand new SN2001 would be so far ahead of the Sea Ray and bayliner as to be beyond comparison, a restored and upgraded more or less new SN2001 for $10k-$15k would be about the same. Not sure why people see the target price for a basic new inboard as $30k when a basic I/O suitable for water sports seems to be around $40k-$50k. Towboats are a small and specialized market when considering all boaters or boat sales, it makes sense for the inboard entry level price to be in the ballpark of an I/O similarly configured. The Outback is $49k, the A20 is $55k. They will price them at what the market will bear while ensuring maximum profit. If the Outback and A20 were both at $40k, or even $30k, it would make no difference to me as I'll never be in the market for a new boat... But it's fun to ponder why things are how they are and what could reasonably be.
Old     (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       08-06-2015, 2:14 PM Reply   
An Axis, is FAR from a SN2001 boat and hull. It is in fact everything I listed as what people are looking for in a new boat (more space, larger wakes, and more features: i.e heaters, surfgate, wedge, ballast), just at a cheaper price point and with more plastic instead of aluminum. And an Axis is at least double the $30k number being tossed around.

All I was getting at was I think its a terrible business idea to produce cheap, small, "old hull" wakeboard boats and I don't think they would sell.
Old     (Woody689)      Join Date: Aug 2015       08-06-2015, 8:50 PM Reply   
[QUOTE=cadunkle;1918710]Not a chance. You're looking at $10k-$20k depending on what you start with.

For a redneck restore maybe. I have helped with some car builds before. A boat?? I don't have a clue how to replace stringers, I wouldn't know were to begin to look for parts or motors for a 78 nautique. In the middle of Wyoming there isn't boat part stores. I was waiting for weeks for parts for my outboard. I don't think I am capable of doing a restoration.
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004 Location: Tyler       08-08-2015, 3:52 PM Reply   
I bet there are parts for modern EFI 5.7 liter chevy 350s coming out of your ears. i think a lot would crossover from modern stuff

Modern tranny or vdrive the same
Old     (Kjkimball)      Join Date: Mar 2011       08-09-2015, 4:43 AM Reply   
Standard Boats are no longer being made. Only a few were made. The market just wasn't there for a $30k no frills wake boat. Those who could afford a boat wanted more boat or more features. Those who would buy an 18ft no frills boat had no money to do so and could not get financing (target demo was just out of college, first boat buyers).

The company that made Standard Boats is still in business and continues to make composite parts for the aerospace industry, ground transportation industry both small and large, and the theme park industry. The molds for the Standard were stored until earlier this year when they were destroyed and taken to the dump.
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-12-2015, 10:36 AM Reply   
You can see this guys entire rebuild process. It's a long read but worth it. Amazing work.

http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum...tle=2001vdrive
Attached Images
 
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-20-2015, 1:16 PM Reply   
I am seriously thinking about converting a CC 2001 from d-drive to v-drive.

Do you think I could hire someone to convert the drive terrain putting in a new v-drive and a new motor?
Old     (DenverRider)      Join Date: Feb 2013       08-20-2015, 3:32 PM Reply   
If you want it to be even close to cost effective, you're probably going to have to do it your self. If you're going to hire that out, you may as well pick up a SAN or a Sport Nautique that's already a v-drive. Unless you're going for some kind of nostalgia thing but there is no 69 Camaro in the boat world.
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-20-2015, 3:59 PM Reply   
Ya, I hear ya.

I want a cross over boat for skiing/boarding that is under 21'.

My options are...
2016 CC Sport Nautique 200 for $80K.
1985 CC 2001 for $8K and putting $22K.
2005 CC SAN for $25K and cutting 2" off the nose.

Having a CC 2001 closed bow vdrive that throws a great ski/wakeboard wake using very little gas is appealing.
Old     (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-20-2015, 6:31 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjkimball View Post
Standard Boats are no longer being made. Only a few were made. The market just wasn't there for a $30k no frills wake boat. Those who could afford a boat wanted more boat or more features. Those who would buy an 18ft no frills boat had no money to do so and could not get financing (target demo was just out of college, first boat buyers).

The company that made Standard Boats is still in business and continues to make composite parts for the aerospace industry, ground transportation industry both small and large, and the theme park industry. The molds for the Standard were stored until earlier this year when they were destroyed and taken to the dump.
Yep, everyone says they want a no frills basic boat, but the market just isn't there. They want the price, but not the lack of features. Look at how many people complained about vinyl quality and other issues when the Axis A22 first came out. They added content and smoothed the rough edges, but look at how fast the price crept up.

I am surprised they didn't try to sell the molds before destroying them. Other than the odd bow cooler access door thing, I thought it was a decent boat. I would have kicked around the idea of purchasing molds to make a limited boat run, trying out a v drive configuration. I mean if they just destroyed them anyhow, I'm sure they would have let them go cheap. A few guys have done similar things with old Powerquest molds in Michigan, limited runs for friends and a few offerings for public sale.
Old     (Kjkimball)      Join Date: Mar 2011       08-20-2015, 7:36 PM Reply   
Matt,

I think it was more of a "close that chapter in life" sort of thing. If selling or giving the molds away, he would have been married to the project with the new owner no matter how much someone says they wouldn't bother him. He is on to other things now and didn't want the distraction or a reminder that it didn't work out as he had hoped. I totally understand where he is coming from. I too was part of designing and building a boat that didn't make it in the marketplace. Saetta Classic was mine, wooden boat with classic style and modern running gear. I ended up selling the one and only complete boat and then selling off my half of the rights to the design. So for me, on to other projects that I enjoy a great deal now.

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