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Old     (matthewnunziata)      Join Date: Aug 2015       08-28-2015, 12:04 PM Reply   
Hello, I was looking into both of these boats and was wondering what boat was better in the wakeboard category, the wakesurf category, comfort category and which one had better handling. I was also wondering which one would last longer and break down less.
Thanks
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       08-28-2015, 12:18 PM Reply   
I think those boats are pretty far apart in cost, aren't they? I think the Malibu VTX would be a more fair comparison. The dash and features in the CC are going to be above and beyond what you will get in an Axis. I wouldn't expect either of those boats to be unreliable, although every manufacturer lets a bad apple go every once in a while.

I have a 2015 Axis, and I love it. 150 hours in 4 months and no issues. I'm going to buy a new one for 2016. For me, I know that the extra money on the premium line isn;t going to make my time on the water anymore enjoyable than it already is, but some people want the extra bling just because they can.

Is there any reason why you're limiting yourself to the 20-21' category?
Old     (Nordicron)      Join Date: Aug 2011       08-28-2015, 12:48 PM Reply   
honestly say this is a weird comparison for sure. And honestly say the 210 wins in EVERY category u listed. Although I'm not a surfer and haven't surfed a axis.

But will cost much more too , a category u didn't list. Only reason to take a a20 over a 210 is if u wanna save $25k. And or u hate the Nauti dealer.
Old     (onetogofast)      Join Date: Jun 2012       08-28-2015, 12:56 PM Reply   
Look at an MB F22 with the new GSA surf system and you will have the best of all worlds. Surf, wakeboard very solid!, and cost.
Old     (Nordicron)      Join Date: Aug 2011       08-28-2015, 1:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by onetogofast View Post
Look at an MB F22 with the new GSA surf system and you will have the best of all worlds. Surf, wakeboard very solid!, and cost.

Except for the ugly ugly tower, I agree!
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       08-28-2015, 5:25 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordicron View Post
honestly say this is a weird comparison for sure. And honestly say the 210 wins in EVERY category u listed. Although I'm not a surfer and haven't surfed a axis.

But will cost much more too , a category u didn't list. Only reason to take a a20 over a 210 is if u wanna save $25k. And or u hate the Nauti dealer.

You're way underestimating the A20 wake. It gets huge. With the redesigned hull on the A20 I'd bet it gives the 210 a run for its money in every category.
Old     (Nordicron)      Join Date: Aug 2011       08-28-2015, 6:34 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardjnky4 View Post
You're way underestimating the A20 wake. It gets huge. With the redesigned hull on the A20 I'd bet it gives the 210 a run for its money in every category.

I don't think so. I'm sure the more u put in the bigger as with any boat. I just think the 210 stays so nice and handles the weight so well. Wake just gets bigger and better. Stays super consistent, can ride it back at 77' at less than 23mph. Or 65' no problem.
Not saying it's bad at all and can have lots of fun behind it like all these tow boats. But they aren't equal and people shouldn't expect them to be. The Nauti is a premium brand and the axis is Bu's budget boat so u would expect that it wouldn't be as good in most categories he listed. Let alone the axis is a smaller boat.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       08-28-2015, 7:39 PM Reply   
I will repost this here for the bigger audience to give some feedback. I happen to disagree with Nordicron on the A20 wakeboard wake. Having driven an a22 and an A20 for comps and demos the A20 wakeboar gets just as big as the A22 . It's without question one of the best 20ft wakes out there.

My first question would be why are you comparing the 210 to the A20 a 20ft axis. I think a better comparison in the Axis line would be the A22 or T22. The A20 is much smaller.

You're going to notice the Axis will have much more plastic abs filler pieces instead of tru fiberglass molded in. You're also going to get touch screens and extra backing plates in key areas inside the Nautique with a little thicker fiberglass in very important areas in the construction process. You will have to decide if you think the extra $$ for the Nautique is worth the better quality of build and longevity of the boat. There is no arguing that the Nautique is built better. I don't think you will ever hear anyone say otherwise. If you do they are high. It comes down to if you feel the extra $$ for the Nautique is worth it for your situation. The Axis isn't cheaply made and it isn't going to fall apart. It's a solid built boat with trying to reign in a price point area. So you have to skimp on extras.

Performance wise there is no doubt the Axis wakes in both wake boarding and wakesurfing are amazing. Great shape, great pop, very easy to dial in. Clean at speeds all the way down to almost 17mph. This holds true from the a20 all the way through the entire line to the A24 They are right on par with the wakes from the 210. I would almost argue the wakeboard wake on the A22 and A24 can be better than the 210, but that's simply because it's tends to be a little peakier and have more straight up pop from the lip. Personal preference there completely and that comes from me owning an 08 210.

Now on to the A20 more specifically . The wakeboard wake is def on par with the 210. You ride at a shorter rope length behind the Axis because even though the A20 might be the shortest boat, it for some reason has a wide wake. Even compared to the A22 and T22 the A20 is still wider. However the surf wake on the A20 is def below a 210 with NSS....even an A20 with surfgate. The Nautique seats will all have gas shocks to keep them up , the Axis will pull out like older boats. The vinyl and foam on the seats is thicker and a higher quality on the Nautique. You will gain more storage with the 210 as well. This is because the Axis A20 fills the bow area completely with its plug and play addition. in the case of the A20 vs the 210 I think you are definitely giving up performance for staying at a much lower price point. Your also giving up a ton or room and storage. Jump to an A22 or my personal recommendation a T22 and it puts it spec wise on paper and feel way more close to a 210. I also now don't think you sacrifice any performance in the realm of cutting cost. So those are decisions for you to weigh.

In the end an A20 vs a 210 I don't see how the 20 can win out. It's performance is less, size is less, but so is the price. 20ft boats gets cramped really quick when loaded with gear coolers and people. Stack an A22 or a T22 next to the 210 and the decision is much much harder for one to make based on performance alone...... and now size is not even a factor. I can easily see an A22 or T22 winning out against a 210 in cases/arguments, but I can't ever see a case where a sufficient argument is made for an A20 to beat a 210 unless price is the only reason.
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       08-29-2015, 1:31 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordicron View Post
I don't think so. I'm sure the more u put in the bigger as with any boat. I just think the 210 stays so nice and handles the weight so well. Wake just gets bigger and better. Stays super consistent, can ride it back at 77' at less than 23mph. Or 65' no problem.
Not saying it's bad at all and can have lots of fun behind it like all these tow boats. But they aren't equal and people shouldn't expect them to be. The Nauti is a premium brand and the axis is Bu's budget boat so u would expect that it wouldn't be as good in most categories he listed. Let alone the axis is a smaller boat.

It's clear you have zero experience with the Axis, because your first paragraph just described the Axis to a tee.

I know you don't want to believe that Axis can keep up with your precious Nautique, but the wake is every bit as good.

You wouldn't expect the axis to be as good, BUT IT IS. That's the beauty of it!
Old     (Nordicron)      Join Date: Aug 2011       08-29-2015, 4:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardjnky4 View Post
It's clear you have zero experience with the Axis, because your first paragraph just described the Axis to a tee.

I know you don't want to believe that Axis can keep up with your precious Nautique, but the wake is every bit as good.

You wouldn't expect the axis to be as good, BUT IT IS. That's the beauty of it!

Dude it's not me that seems so compelled to protect my "precious" little boat. I wouldn't be making 1st hand statements about a boats wake unless I've ridden behind it. The guy asked which is better. If he would have asked is MB f22 or a supra SE or a x25 or a Xstar or a Mxz are better than a f'n a20 I would have answers YES because they all are and I've ridden them all!!!!!

But still doesn't make the a20 terrible. But there are better.
Old     (Redheadd)      Join Date: Apr 2014       08-29-2015, 7:42 AM Reply   
Forget both those and grab yourself a pavati!! Custom made of aluminum!!
Old     (OneCent)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-30-2015, 1:15 AM Reply   
Both boats makes good wakes... if you have the opportunity take a closer look and walk around and in the boat, open all compartments, check where switches, fuses and everything is.. how they are made and if you like it or not. Take a closer look at the dealer...
Old     (Froggy)      Join Date: Nov 2013       08-30-2015, 4:33 AM Reply   
Dumb question Dumb comparison. This is like comparing a stealth fighter to a humming bird the only thing they have in common is they both fly.

Last edited by Froggy; 08-30-2015 at 4:37 AM.
Old     (granddaddy53)      Join Date: Dec 2013       08-30-2015, 8:53 AM Reply   
dude obviously isnt sure he wants to drain his bank account or have a 2nd house note for a boat note for the next 20 years like many do. I rode in(broken leg only rode in boat) a G23 at surfest 2015, what a freak boat. saw a lime green and white with white tower 21, beautiful boat beyond description. Interior quality of boat obvious and and surfwake was beautiful, i'm sure the 21 would do same.

Now everyone knows i think my 2014 a20 is the schnizzle. No way anyone tells me that my time on the water would be any better by being poorer to own the nauti. at 54500 for boat and trailer that i need to move boat can't be beat, i've got a surfgate, ski pylon,plug and play and several other options including heater and high altitude prop for surfing and i am overjoyed(total delivered price including equipment, boards, surfboards tax title registration and on the water for $63500. I have no debt, stroked a check and still have some money left.

Nauti is better boat, but why be poor to have fun, if you have the wealth you buy the nauti, If your like everyone else who struggles to pay the bills you go axis with no questions left to ask except how many options do i limit myself to to actually keep the boat a price point boat
Old     (wakeripper)      Join Date: Oct 2002       08-30-2015, 12:38 PM Reply   
I agree that is a pretty strange comparison but i will say that i bought a 2016 A-20 and got one of the first ones off the line and i will say that this boat has exceeded all my expectations. The wake is really, really good and the surf wave is far better than i expected it to be. Now take this with the knowledge that i have ridden behind every boat in the axis and malibu line. The interior space is really good but you loose a little in the bow (which i don't care about) the biggest things for me when purchasing was will it fit in a 22' garage and the wakeboard wake had to be good. I wakeboard 80/20 surf and the cost of the boat didn't break the bank
Old     (wakeripper)      Join Date: Oct 2002       08-30-2015, 12:42 PM Reply   
Photos of the wake
Attached Images
   
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       08-30-2015, 7:49 PM Reply   
Anyone who thinks the above wake isn't on the same level as the SAN 210 is a crazy person.
Old     (CHUCK_K)      Join Date: Aug 2015       08-30-2015, 9:14 PM Reply   
@wakeripper - I like your boat a lot!! Looks great, how much weight have you added to the stock ballast system for wakeboarding/surf? TIA
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       08-31-2015, 8:48 AM Reply   
Just to be clear..... more money doesn't get you a better Wake/Wakeboarding experience. The MBs and Axis boats shame many of the more expensive boats the same way that a Corvette shames it's more expensive import exotic cars. You may not feel like you're sitting in something as luxurious, but from from a pure sport standpoint, it's right there, or better in many cases. I'll tell you, and many of my friends will agree, that the Axis A22 wake is better than the Malibu MXZ22. I've owned both. But the MXZ is a whole lot nicer to be in.

The budget wake boats cut you short on fancy electronics and features, and maybe interior, but you're not compromising anything in the wake department. Many of my avid riding buddies have described the 210 wake as good. But I've never heard anyone raving about it the way that they rave about the Axis wake.
Old     (wakemitch)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-31-2015, 8:56 AM Reply   
The current SAN 210 surfs so well. I have been able to surf behind one a few times with full factory ballast and NSS and was really stoked on the wake. Nautique has a lot of factory ballast. No extra bags or plug and play needed.
Old     (Nordicron)      Join Date: Aug 2011       08-31-2015, 9:30 AM Reply   
Axis guys sure do feel the need to defend their purchase! Taking stuff quite personally! I thought only the MB guys did that on here! Lol

I'll add another wake to the equation that is better than a A20. That is the 21' VLX. Rode one for first time this weekend and was amazed at the quality of the wake! Very nice with just factory and wedge. Had about 800 people weight too. Super nice and could be ridden out to 75' and no problems with folding over or being too wide that u had to ride fast. Guys could ride in at 65' and still had plenty of boost. I was impressed.
Old     (wakeripper)      Join Date: Oct 2002       08-31-2015, 9:41 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHUCK_K View Post
@wakeripper - I like your boat a lot!! Looks great, how much weight have you added to the stock ballast system for wakeboarding/surf? TIA
Thanks I am very, very happy with it.

I learned to ride behind a SAN 210 and was a die hard Correct Craft fan but i just cant afford that type of boat. With that said i still like the steep wake of a SAN. I have buddies with a SAN 210, SAN 220, A-22, T-23, and Malibu 23 LSV so i knew what kind of wake i wanted.

stock factory ballast +
fly high 1000lb open bow sac in the front (i tried the sumo triangle sac and didn't feel like it fit as well)
Fly high 20 x 20 x 50 750lbs rear sacks

I wasn't sure if the 750's would be too much but with the new prop and standard 350 it does really well

My wake settings are at this point full bow, full center, full rear hard tanks, with a little in the fat sacs with the wedge

My surf settings are full everything, no wedge

It also depends on how many people are in the boat but ive started playing with putting a 400lb fat sac in the walkway furthest forward, I also have a bunch of lead from my old boat in the garage that i havent even started putting in (trying to keep the tow weight down)

I'll put the wake right up there with a SAN, A-22 and T-23 as well as the surf wave. However i do still like the wedge adjustability of a 23 LSV i'm just not willing to pay that kind of money for a boat
Old    Paxdad            09-01-2015, 4:49 AM Reply   
SOOOOOOOOO MANY VARIABLESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS and opinions.....................................

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