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Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-05-2020, 8:36 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
That complete lunatic actually did what his democrat foes said they wanted to do for some time, however we know it was all talk from democrats. They goal of the democrat party is to share the wealth of the top 1%. Of course they believe America is the top 1% and say as much when they say they are children of the world all the time. Their positions and yearn for trade agreements that move wealth out of America play out the true behind it.


Exactly. I thought nobody could possibly gobble down that sort of BS and was ignorant of the President’s ability to sell it. Sadly the current Admin’s loony tax cuts and freewheeling spending are giving more of our future away to our foreign adversaries than any trade deal ever could.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-05-2020, 11:11 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Exactly. I thought nobody could possibly gobble down that sort of BS and was ignorant of the President’s ability to sell it. Sadly the current Admin’s loony tax cuts and freewheeling spending are giving more of our future away to our foreign adversaries than any trade deal ever could.
Try again. Tax receipts are up. Apparently the useful idiot (I apologize to all the actual idiots that I may have offended) talking points don't marry with facts (as usual)

Fiscal Year Revenue
FY 2021 $3.86 (estimated)
FY 2020 $3.71 trillion (estimated)
FY 2019 $3.46 trillion (actual)
FY 2018 $3.33 trillion
FY 2017 $3.32 trillion
FY 2016 $3.27 trillion
FY 2015 $3.25 trillion
FY 2014 $3.02 trillion
FY 2013 $2.77 trillion
FY 2012 $2.45 trillion
FY 2011 $2.30 trillion
FY 2010 $2.16 trillion
FY 2009 $2.10 trillion
FY 2008 $2.52 trillion
FY 2007 $2.57 trillion
FY 2006 $2.41 trillion
FY 2005 $2.15 trillion
FY 2004 $1.88 trillion
FY 2003 $1.78 trillion
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-05-2020, 11:13 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Exactly. I thought nobody could possibly gobble down that sort of BS and was ignorant of the President’s ability to sell it. Sadly the current Admin’s loony tax cuts and freewheeling spending are giving more of our future away to our foreign adversaries than any trade deal ever could.
And for good measure. The Top 1% are still paying more of their "fair share" as they historically ever have. Next tired talking point please?

Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-05-2020, 11:57 AM Reply   
Just to be clear... the percentage of who paid chart is not directly comparable to the fiscal year revenue. Only about 2/3rds of the fiscal year revenue is income tax. The other 1/3rd is payroll tax. I'm pretty sure that chart would change quite a bit if payroll taxes are included.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       03-05-2020, 11:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Try again. Tax receipts are up.
Not as much as spending!
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       03-05-2020, 12:01 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
And for good measure. The Top 1% are still paying more of their "fair share" as they historically ever have. Next tired talking talking point
Isn't this data from pre trump tax cut?
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-05-2020, 12:03 PM Reply   
Delta it's hard to keep up with your pretzel logic, but are you arguing that revenues would have been higher or lower in 2018 and 2019 had the TCJA not been passed? And are you somehow arguing that the deficit has not grown since taxes were reduced? I don't care who is paying them, taxes generate revenue, appropriations bills spend that revenue. If you spend more than you bring in, deficits grow. When deficits grow, we borrow money to cover the gap. The national debt (the total amount owed, including the money borrowed by past admins) has grown by 10% since Trump took office. Of all the money we owe for all time, 10% of it has been borrowed during one of the best economies we've ever had.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-05-2020, 12:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
Just to be clear... the percentage of who paid chart is not directly comparable to the fiscal year revenue. Only about 2/3rds of the fiscal year revenue is income tax. The other 1/3rd is payroll tax. I'm pretty sure that chart would change quite a bit if payroll taxes are included.
While that is possibly true, the discussion has always been about income tax breaks and what it does to tax receipts and who is paying. Every time there is a tax cut, we hear over and over that the rich are not paying their share and that we are mortgaging out kids future and on and on.

Clearly the income tax receipts are going up and the income tax percent the rich pay is actually historically high. That is in complete opposition to the talking point.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-05-2020, 12:10 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Delta it's hard to keep up with your pretzel logic, but are you arguing that revenues would have been higher or lower in 2018 and 2019 had the TCJA not been passed? And are you somehow arguing that the deficit has not grown since taxes were reduced? I don't care who is paying them, taxes generate revenue, appropriations bills spend that revenue. If you spend more than you bring in, deficits grow. When deficits grow, we borrow money to cover the gap. The national debt (the total amount owed, including the money borrowed by past admins) has grown by 10% since Trump took office. Of all the money we owe for all time, 10% of it has been borrowed during one of the best economies we've ever had.
Seems like you are moving the target. The discussion what your tirade about income tax. I proved you wrong.

You do realize a dollar out into the economy has the ability to be taxed more than once thus better than the one and done. I am sure you have spoken about that extensively in the past. What changes your mind now? Clearly income tax changed did not impact tax receipts. It also did not change who was paying the taxes. If anything, the poor and middle class appear to have benefited the most from the tax cuts. They are the engine that drives our economy. They typically are the ones who spend on products compared to the 1%. How has the economy been doing?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-05-2020, 12:18 PM Reply   
Year Total
Receipts Outlays Surplus or Deficit (-)
2009 2,104,989 3,517,677 -1,412,688
2010 2,162,706 3,457,079 -1,294,373
2011 2,303,466 3,603,065 -1,299,599
2012 2,449,990 3,526,563 -1,076,573
2013 2,775,106 3,454,881 -679,775
2014 3,021,491 3,506,284 -484,793
2015 3,249,890 3,691,850 -441,960
2016 3,267,965 3,852,616 -584,651
2017 3,316,184 3,981,630 -665,446
2018 3,329,907 4,109,044 -779,137
2019 3,464,161 4,448,316 -984,155

Total over all receipts, outlays from Obama to Trump. Why were you not bitching 5 plus years ago about this? Did that tax cut really change the trend?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-05-2020, 12:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Isn't this data from pre trump tax cut?
I believe Trump did that right away. Maybe one years worth. It would show. Same talking point happened when Bush did it. If you notice during that time, the top 1% actually increased their portion of the total paid.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       03-05-2020, 12:36 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
I believe Trump did that right away. Maybe one years worth. It would show. Same talking point happened when Bush did it. If you notice during that time, the top 1% actually increased their portion of the total paid.
Wrong, bill went into effect on January 1 2018, and did not affect 2017 taxes.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       03-05-2020, 12:40 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Year Total
Receipts Outlays Surplus or Deficit (-)
2009 2,104,989 3,517,677 -1,412,688
2010 2,162,706 3,457,079 -1,294,373
2011 2,303,466 3,603,065 -1,299,599
2012 2,449,990 3,526,563 -1,076,573
2013 2,775,106 3,454,881 -679,775
2014 3,021,491 3,506,284 -484,793
2015 3,249,890 3,691,850 -441,960
2016 3,267,965 3,852,616 -584,651
2017 3,316,184 3,981,630 -665,446
2018 3,329,907 4,109,044 -779,137
2019 3,464,161 4,448,316 -984,155

Total over all receipts, outlays from Obama to Trump. Why were you not bitching 5 plus years ago about this? Did that tax cut really change the trend?
The trend from $1.4T down to $440M? Yeah it did change that trend. And I did bitch about Obama's fiscal irrresponsibility but to be fair to him he was at the helm at the start of a world wide financial crisis and recovery rather than trump having the "best economy ever"
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-05-2020, 12:51 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Total over all receipts, outlays from Obama to Trump. Why were you not bitching 5 plus years ago about this?
Because the govt was spending to recover from a recession, and the deficit was decreasing. If your complaint is that Obama didn't lower the deficit fast enough in a recession, then how could you possibly be OK that we are now increasing the deficit in a strong economy?

Since I don't recall if you were complaining about the deficit spending back then, the "you" in that sentence is directed at all the Trump supporters who thought Obama was putting the country in debt, but now don't care.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-05-2020, 2:39 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Seems like you are moving the target. The discussion what your tirade about income tax. I proved you wrong.



You do realize a dollar out into the economy has the ability to be taxed more than once thus better than the one and done. I am sure you have spoken about that extensively in the past. What changes your mind now? Clearly income tax changed did not impact tax receipts. It also did not change who was paying the taxes. If anything, the poor and middle class appear to have benefited the most from the tax cuts. They are the engine that drives our economy. They typically are the ones who spend on products compared to the 1%. How has the economy been doing?

In the past three years we have incurred 10% of the debt that has been incurred since 1789. If the economy weren’t off the hook good it would be surprising, no?

Also I never mentioned income tax. I said “loony tax cuts”.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-06-2020, 6:13 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
Because the govt was spending to recover from a recession, and the deficit was decreasing. If your complaint is that Obama didn't lower the deficit fast enough in a recession, then how could you possibly be OK that we are now increasing the deficit in a strong economy?

Since I don't recall if you were complaining about the deficit spending back then, the "you" in that sentence is directed at all the Trump supporters who thought Obama was putting the country in debt, but now don't care.
Not my complaint. You guys are the ones bitching. I am just showing you where you did not bitch and now you are. The numbers look the same except the state and local government are raking in more money and the over all economy is doing very well. Housing is up. Unemployment is low. Wages going up. Yet according to you guys the rich are paying less of their "fair share" and we mortgaged out childrens future by Trumps actions. Hog wash.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-06-2020, 6:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
The trend from $1.4T down to $440M? Yeah it did change that trend. And I did bitch about Obama's fiscal irrresponsibility but to be fair to him he was at the helm at the start of a world wide financial crisis and recovery rather than trump having the "best economy ever"
Truth be told, Obama did not pass a single budget because congress rejected his budget each year on a near unanimous vote. Congress did not pass a single budget either during his time. They did a continuing resolution year after year until the Republicans took over and forced the sequestration that happened. Those are the facts.

Just like congress has rejected Trumps budget every year. He cut everthing 20% I believe it was. Congress rejected it. Now Congress has been passing budgets since he took over. I don't believe they did any continuing resolutions, however I can not swear to it over the last 4 years.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-06-2020, 6:20 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
In the past three years we have incurred 10% of the debt that has been incurred since 1789. If the economy weren’t off the hook good it would be surprising, no?

Also I never mentioned income tax. I said “loony tax cuts”.
The tax cuts were income tax. That is what everyone was bitching about.

I have not been keeping up. Where were the other looney cuts?

Please don't put yourself in that box of most debt since 1789. You are like those people who say such and such movie is the highest grossing movie ever, even eclipsing Gone with the Wind, or some crap like that. Of course they did. Ticket prices are 100 times higher than they were then.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-06-2020, 6:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
In the past three years we have incurred 10% of the debt that has been incurred since 1789. If the economy weren’t off the hook good it would be surprising, no?

Also I never mentioned income tax. I said “loony tax cuts”.
Also, I have the numbers right there for you. How is it magically in the "last 3 years" we have incurred this debt when the last 3 years each have been less then the first years of Obama by a good margin? I am not assessing blame on Obama, that is simply the numbers. The numbers do not match your statement in the slightest.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-06-2020, 6:27 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
The trend from $1.4T down to $440M? Yeah it did change that trend. And I did bitch about Obama's fiscal irrresponsibility but to be fair to him he was at the helm at the start of a world wide financial crisis and recovery rather than trump having the "best economy ever"
Also, yet under Trumps policies, we have actually continued to collect more income. That seems to be somewhat up trend no matter the policy for income tax, so the outgoing is the issue. We are taking more money in. That is the goal right? The best economy also impacts places like California who are now in the black considerably compared to when Obama was in office. That happens though more money in the local economies. Tax cuts allowing the workers to keep their and circulate money locally.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-06-2020, 6:41 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Not my complaint. You guys are the ones bitching. I am just showing you where you did not bitch and now you are. The numbers look the same except the state and local government are raking in more money and the over all economy is doing very well. Housing is up. Unemployment is low. Wages going up. Yet according to you guys the rich are paying less of their "fair share" and we mortgaged out childrens future by Trumps actions. Hog wash.
Apparently you are completely unaware that pretty much all economists recommend that the time to reduce the deficit or even debt is in a strong economy. Sounds like you need to get an education before speaking out. Statements like the above make you look pretty ignorant.

Maybe you could mitigate that appearance by telling us when deficit spending should be addressed.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-06-2020, 6:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Also, I have the numbers right there for you. How is it magically in the "last 3 years" we have incurred this debt when the last 3 years each have been less then the first years of Obama by a good margin? I am not assessing blame on Obama, that is simply the numbers. The numbers do not match your statement in the slightest.
While I can't vouch for the accuracy of that 10% statement, the answer to your question is really obvious. You only need to look at the annual deficit. The increase in debt would be much higher during the Obama admin because the deficit was higher during some points, and the accumulation was over a longer time frame. So if the last 3 years were a 10% increase, the prior 8 years would be higher than 10%. No magic involved.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-06-2020, 7:31 AM Reply   
Switching gears, I was searching 7 different liberal (MSM) news websites. I wanted to see if they were reporting the fact that the Trump campaign is suing CNN for libel..... Nope, but they sure had a lot of scary coronavirus stories all lined up to help try to kill the economy. Meanwhile, unemployment just hit a new, largely-unreported, unexpected low of 3.5%. Question is, do any of you libs get tired of your side's propaganda war when you know it's so dishonest and purposely lacking truth?
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       03-06-2020, 7:48 AM Reply   
Switching gears? No, just parroting FOX. CNN should just follow the trump route, counter sue, appeal, drag it out.

Talk about lying and libel....Where the tax dollars end up. and FOX not reporting, the horror.
https://www.salon.com/2020/03/06/tru...med-documents/
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-06-2020, 7:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
Apparently you are completely unaware that pretty much all economists recommend that the time to reduce the deficit or even debt is in a strong economy. Sounds like you need to get an education before speaking out. Statements like the above make you look pretty ignorant.

Maybe you could mitigate that appearance by telling us when deficit spending should be addressed.
Not a single word I said was wrong so there is that. I am not even sure what you are talking about. You guys are the ones bitching about it, not me. I posted the numbers. His tax cuts did not change receipts from income tax. Did not change the "top 1% not paying their fair share". State budgets are in better shape.

Not a single wrong word was typed. The numbers are right there. You guys are the ones making crap up and using scare tactics.

I agree with said economist and have said as such when arguing against your guys leftist policies of trying to put the government as a sole provider for any service. The government is the buffer/ correction factor. It is just leadership does not have the guts to cut the good times in terms of policy in order to have a more manageable economy overall. Maybe we don't know when to change the policy so who knows.

You seem to know so much. How long do you let an economy go well before you try and collapse it for increased tax receipts?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-06-2020, 8:02 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
Switching gears, I was searching 7 different liberal (MSM) news websites. I wanted to see if they were reporting the fact that the Trump campaign is suing CNN for libel..... Nope, but they sure had a lot of scary coronavirus stories all lined up to help try to kill the economy. Meanwhile, unemployment just hit a new, largely-unreported, unexpected low of 3.5%. Question is, do any of you libs get tired of your side's propaganda war when you know it's so dishonest and purposely lacking truth?
Fair enough. Thanks for doing the work. We both know the "10%" statement was made to invoke fear or some negative connotation about Trump. Why is that now a significant issue compared to democrats who did the same thing? Do we know somehow expect more from Trump because he is better at it so we are upset with his policy or is it just selective outrage as usual?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-06-2020, 8:04 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
Switching gears? No, just parroting FOX. CNN should just follow the trump route, counter sue, appeal, drag it out.

Talk about lying and libel....Where the tax dollars end up. and FOX not reporting, the horror.
https://www.salon.com/2020/03/06/tru...med-documents/
Ah. Love it when people fall for these articles.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-06-2020, 8:32 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
Switching gears? No, just parroting FOX. CNN should just follow the trump route, counter sue, appeal, drag it out.

Talk about lying and libel....Where the tax dollars end up. and FOX not reporting, the horror.
https://www.salon.com/2020/03/06/tru...med-documents/
So, I'll take that as a "no, I like my propaganda as-is" from you. Thank you for your honesty. NEXT!
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-06-2020, 8:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Not a single word I said was wrong so there is that. I am not even sure what you are talking about. You guys are the ones bitching about it, not me. I posted the numbers. His tax cuts did not change receipts from income tax. Did not change the "top 1% not paying their fair share". State budgets are in better shape.

Not a single wrong word was typed. The numbers are right there. You guys are the ones making crap up and using scare tactics.
It's not that you said anything wrong. It's that you are showing no awareness of the topic on which you spoke. You fail to understand the logic of people who don't complain about the deficit in a recession and do complain about the deficit in a strong economy. That logic is supported by economists, completely elementary and easy to understand, yet it completely escapes you in this conversation.

I understand that you are arguing against lowering the deficit by increasing taxes and believe it should be done by cutting costs. But the complaint that raising deficits in a strong economy is not specific to how deficits are cut. It's a general principle that sets a goal which can be accomplished in various ways. Quite frankly I think part of the reason you fail to look rational sometimes is that you respond to posts by seguing to a topic you feel comfortable with when you don't have a respond to what was posted. That makes the person you respond to feel as though you don't understand what's being discussed.

But that's only part of it. Your bombastic claims that libs are trying to crash the economy to get higher taxes is pretty much lunatic fringe. Another is that libs believe that the govt should be the provider of any service. Any lib that believes that is lunatic fringe along with the belief that all libs are in that category. It really isn't possible to have a coherent conversion with such ridiculous claims.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-06-2020, 9:02 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Ah. Love it when people fall for these articles.
So you are claiming it's a lie because....?
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       03-06-2020, 9:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
So you are claiming it's a lie because....?
Because Eric, Don Jr. and Don Sr. all keep saying they either dont charge the secret service or they say they only charge "cost", they vacilate. They know trumps dont over charge our tax dollars because they have verifiable proof.

http://trumplies.us/
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-06-2020, 10:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
So you are claiming it's a lie because....?
You can simply say "Secret Service", but you don't know if that was the agents deciding to rent on their own and that was the private costs. There are labels and the way one chooses to present the names and the context. I have seen them say that about places I have worked. Local rag states that such and such can not account for millions of dollars of equipment and go on to tell everyone how that was so horrible. When the truth was actually how much that equipment cost 30 years ago when new and now those individual pieces were not worth scrap price because the technology was so outdated and matter of fact were scrapped. All talking points in the article were truthful in some manner, but details actual matter. So no, I don't trust stupid hit piece articles especially from places like Salon. Salon? Really?
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-06-2020, 11:06 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
The tax cuts were income tax. That is what everyone was bitching about.

I have not been keeping up. Where were the other looney cuts?
Clearly you haven't been keeping up. That's a bit of a disappointment, because even though I disagree with you often, you can make me think about stuff when you are "on."

I'm not going to do your homework for you this time.

Try googling up "Tax Cuts and Jobs Act." You know, basically the one piece of meaningful legislation that Trump accomplished while he had control of both chambers of Congress.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-06-2020, 11:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
It's not that you said anything wrong. It's that you are showing no awareness of the topic on which you spoke. You fail to understand the logic of people who don't complain about the deficit in a recession and do complain about the deficit in a strong economy. That logic is supported by economists, completely elementary and easy to understand, yet it completely escapes you in this conversation.

I understand that you are arguing against lowering the deficit by increasing taxes and believe it should be done by cutting costs. But the complaint that raising deficits in a strong economy is not specific to how deficits are cut. It's a general principle that sets a goal which can be accomplished in various ways. Quite frankly I think part of the reason you fail to look rational sometimes is that you respond to posts by seguing to a topic you feel comfortable with when you don't have a respond to what was posted. That makes the person you respond to feel as though you don't understand what's being discussed.

But that's only part of it. Your bombastic claims that libs are trying to crash the economy to get higher taxes is pretty much lunatic fringe. Another is that libs believe that the govt should be the provider of any service. Any lib that believes that is lunatic fringe along with the belief that all libs are in that category. It really isn't possible to have a coherent conversion with such ridiculous claims.
Well reasoned response, however no one in this discussion board has ever tried to be a neutral arbitrator of fiscal policy. This particular discussion was based on Shawnny trying to say what Trump had done was horrible and of course talking points like giving the rich people a pass while we mortgage our futures.

Everyone one of these discussions about how Trump has done well with the economy always ends in you guys saying that Obama had the strong economy. If he had such a good economy then why did he not have a surplus or march to it? He had 8 years. Why did you guys not hold him to the same standard? Not my words, but your sides words that he had a great economy before Trump took over. Then have the same standard. Me. I am not convince that deficit spending is really hurting. Can't lay my finger on it, but it really does not seem to matter at least federally.

During the Obama time, states were not doing great on meeting their budgets either. We were losing jobs hand over fist to Mexico and China. Regulations going up and up. Cost of doing business goes up accordingly. All I am saying is federally Trumps policies toward income tax did not let the rich off the hook. We have not decreased in net income federally. The states are meeting their budgets. People are working. Jobs are coming back. We are trying to stop the mass export of our wealth out of the country.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-06-2020, 11:15 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Clearly you haven't been keeping up. That's a bit of a disappointment, because even though I disagree with you often, you can make me think about stuff when you are "on."

I'm not going to do your homework for you this time.

Try googling up "Tax Cuts and Jobs Act." You know, basically the one piece of meaningful legislation that Trump accomplished while he had control of both chambers of Congress.
I did the homework. Proof is in the cash.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-06-2020, 11:18 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by psudy View Post
Look elsewhere.
Credit Union. 2.875%, 30 year fixed
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-06-2020, 11:18 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
This particular discussion was based on Shawnny trying to say what Trump had done was horrible and of course talking points like giving the rich people a pass while we mortgage our futures.
huh, what thesaurus do you use Delta?

Quote:
Everyone one of these discussions about how Trump has done well with the economy always ends in you guys saying that Obama had the strong economy. If he had such a good economy then why did he not have a surplus or march to it? He had 8 years. Why did you guys not hold him to the same standard? Not my words, but your sides words that he had a great economy before Trump took over. Then have the same standard. Me. I am not convince that deficit spending is really hurting. Can't lay my finger on it, but it really does not seem to matter at least federally.
careful grasshopper, that's the same logic AOC and Bernie rely on to fund the Green New Deal and Medicare for all. Just print the money.

Quote:
We are trying to stop the mass export of our wealth out of the country.
By running the country on a credit card owned by China? Huh. Hope it works out.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-06-2020, 11:19 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
I did the homework. Proof is in the cash.
I think your chocolate is in my peanut butter.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       03-06-2020, 11:24 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
You can simply say "Secret Service", but you don't know if that was the agents deciding to rent on their own and that was the private costs. There are labels and the way one chooses to present the names and the context. I have seen them say that about places I have worked. Local rag states that such and such can not account for millions of dollars of equipment and go on to tell everyone how that was so horrible. When the truth was actually how much that equipment cost 30 years ago when new and now those individual pieces were not worth scrap price because the technology was so outdated and matter of fact were scrapped. All talking points in the article were truthful in some manner, but details actual matter. So no, I don't trust stupid hit piece articles especially from places like Salon. Salon? Really?
Good Grief. You are going to need a chiropractor after all that twisting and contorting.

Quote:
Eric Trump has claimed that Secret Service agents "stay at our properties for free — meaning, like, cost for housekeeping." He insisted last year that "we charge them, like, 50 bucks."
Let me help you. It is a flat out lie. They have receipts.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-06-2020, 11:27 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Credit Union. 2.875%, 30 year fixed
dang son, pull the trigger on that pronto.... and then take all the money you saved and spend it, plus borrow more and spend that too. You can run your own little trump economy!
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-06-2020, 11:29 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
huh, what thesaurus do you use Delta?



careful grasshopper, that's the same logic AOC and Bernie rely on to fund the Green New Deal and Medicare for all. Just print the money.



By running the country on a credit card owned by China? Huh. Hope it works out.
I agree on the bernie and AOC deal, however I just keep hearing the same talking points for at least 40 years.. I am not sure where it finally gets us. My guess it bites us, when you can not keep a certain amount of the people interested in contributing to society? Money is made up value for the most part anyway. As long as you convince the people the paper is worth something then it has worth. Crap hits the fan and you don't have chickens, goats or daughters; then your money means nothing. How much would all of New York cities money mean if no one sells them food for instance?

They say if you owe someone a little money they own you. If you own them a lot, then you own them?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-06-2020, 11:31 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
dang son, pull the trigger on that pronto.... and then take all the money you saved and spend it, plus borrow more and spend that too. You can run your own little trump economy!
Or Obama, or Bush, or Clinton, of Bush, or Reagan, or Carter, of Ford, or Nixon or......

Pulled that Trigger. Already has my docs. May close by the end of the month.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-06-2020, 11:32 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
Good Grief. You are going to need a chiropractor after all that twisting and contorting.



Let me help you. It is a flat out lie. They have receipts.
You know the government is not allowed handouts right? As much as someone wants to give them stuff, they still have to pay like everyone else. You should look at the actual rules they have to follow for once.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-06-2020, 11:36 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
I think your chocolate is in my peanut butter.
Look I am not overall pleased with the whole tax package. As someone living in California, the taxes on my home alone take up almost the whole $10,000 a year SALT write off, never mind the considerable state income taxes I pay that I pretty much can not write off. However, I can see the good of the country in it. May drive down housing costs or change tax strategy in California, however California continues to double down on taxing their citizens out of existence. I believe another $15 billion in tax spending was just authorized by another prop this week.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       03-06-2020, 11:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
You know the government is not allowed handouts right? As much as someone wants to give them stuff, they still have to pay like everyone else. You should look at the actual rules they have to follow for once.
Call the acupuncture specialist, youre twisted worse than I thought.

Are there rules that the hotel owner must keep lying about what they charge to house the secret service that protects his ass? They can continue to bilk the US taxpayer but why lie about it?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-06-2020, 11:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
Call the acupuncture specialist, youre twisted worse than I thought.

Are there rules that the hotel owner must keep lying about what they charge to house the secret service that protects his ass? They can continue to bilk the US taxpayer but why lie about it?
good freaking grief. Quit reading salon. It is going to rot your brain. Your TDS is out of control
Old     (lesstalkmoreride)      Join Date: Nov 2008       03-06-2020, 12:01 PM Reply   
Quit watching fox. Gives you worm brains.
Old     (lesstalkmoreride)      Join Date: Nov 2008       03-06-2020, 12:02 PM Reply   
And do you really believe everything Trump says?
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       03-06-2020, 12:57 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
good freaking grief. Quit reading salon. It is going to rot your brain. Your TDS is out of control
FOX covered it as well as the WAPO and a host of others. What is out of control is your blind faith cultish behavior. Your guy is a grifter, just admit it.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-07-2020, 1:29 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
FOX covered it as well as the WAPO and a host of others. What is out of control is your blind faith cultish behavior. Your guy is a grifter, just admit it.
Well, if any of you Dems would get on the right side of enough subjects, you might stand a chance, but you keep going in the wrong direction. You’re hopeless and Orange Man keeps beating you silly.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-07-2020, 1:39 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
FOX covered it as well as the WAPO and a host of others. What is out of control is your blind faith cultish behavior. Your guy is a grifter, just admit it.
Your side keeps getting owned by Trump, your ideas are bankrupt and all you can do as you circle the drain is say we’re in a cult. That’s weak sauce.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-07-2020, 1:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Everyone one of these discussions about how Trump has done well with the economy always ends in you guys saying that Obama had the strong economy. If he had such a good economy then why did he not have a surplus or march to it? He had 8 years. Why did you guys not hold him to the same standard? Not my words, but your sides words that he had a great economy before Trump took over. Then have the same standard. Me. I am not convince that deficit spending is really hurting. Can't lay my finger on it, but it really does not seem to matter at least federally.
Obama started with a recession. The unemployment went down, the stock market doubled, and over time he reduced the deficit. Trump inherited a recovered economy and the next thing we see is deficit spending going back up. It's really very simple if you are unbiased about looking at the numbers. IOW, he was marching closer to a surplus by lowering the deficit vs Trump marching away by increasing the deficit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
During the Obama time, states were not doing great on meeting their budgets either. We were losing jobs hand over fist to Mexico and China. Regulations going up and up. Cost of doing business goes up accordingly. All I am saying is federally Trumps policies toward income tax did not let the rich off the hook. We have not decreased in net income federally. The states are meeting their budgets. People are working. Jobs are coming back. We are trying to stop the mass export of our wealth out of the country.
If you look at unemployment by year charts, there is nothing in them that indicates a change between Trump and Obama in the rate of reduction of unemployment. It's virtually a straight line.

The devil is in the details. But if I throw in some conjecture, I do believe that the ACA subsidies and increased HI costs that are funded through tax deductions are a significant factor in the deficit spending. And I would assume that as unemployment gets closer to zero it is harder to reduce. So a straight line reduction at the lower levels requires addition effort to reduce. Those factors are in Trumps favor.

While I'm not a fan of many GOP policies, I'm also not a fan of many far left policies. But I don't like Trump because by all standards of social norms he's a despicable person that publicly demonstrates the worst of human behavior. And as the office of the Presidency does by it's inherent status, he promotes the worst of human behavior. I find it disturbing that the GOP isn't offering up a better alternative and even more so that Republicans aren't asking for that.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-07-2020, 1:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lesstalkmoreride View Post
And do you really believe everything Trump says?
It's a mystery. I also wonder if Flat Earthers believe the Earth is flat, or there are just putting us on. I'm thinking you could replace Trump with a bobble head that says random phrases and as long as the GOP sets policy they would be fine with that. Clearly the dignity of the executive office has never been on more tenuous grounds.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-08-2020, 12:21 AM Reply   
For those of you who have mocked or questioned the influence of social media on the 2016 vote, please visit your local costco and let me know how the toilet paper and bottled water sections look. I was a little shocked on our visit yesterday. People be dumb and if I'm Putin, I'm definitely pushing the "go stock up" story as much as I can.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       03-08-2020, 5:59 AM Reply   
Went to Costco Friday. Truth^^^
on a related topic...Local Liquor store had Corona Beer at 1/2 price. Because Idiots.
Yes, having Corona tonight.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       03-08-2020, 7:14 AM Reply   
50% of Americans won't drink Corona because of the virus. Also 50% of Americans voted for trump. Coincidence? I don't think so.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       03-09-2020, 4:39 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
Your side keeps getting owned by Trump, your ideas are bankrupt and all you can do as you circle the drain is say we’re in a cult. That’s weak sauce.
Your cult IS the side that continues to provide fake news while you cry about fake news. Its called lying, cheating and projection. Started with Spicer lying about crowd size and has only amped up. Keep crying snowflake. The stable genius is now on his 4th chief of staff, Mulvaney out, Trump butt sniffer Mark Meadows in. Not stable, not genius. Must be true, he said it himself...
"3 Chief of Staffs in less than 3 years of being President: Part of the reason why @BarackObama can't manage to pass his agenda," Trump wrote in one 2012 tweet.


https://www.businessinsider.com/twit...rce=reddit.com
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       03-09-2020, 4:41 AM Reply   
The cheetoh twitter vault just keeps offering up gems lol. There was the one about Obama playing golf during the NY ebola scare. Cheetoh played a couple rounds this weekend while Pence and Mother worked on praying away covid19 lol
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       03-09-2020, 5:11 AM Reply   
Trump gets up in front of the cameras at the CDC and all he can talk about are how high his ratings were on his appearance on Fox LOL. Oh and he said he only recently became aware that people died from the flu. derp
Old     (lesstalkmoreride)      Join Date: Nov 2008       03-09-2020, 5:12 AM Reply   
How bout them stonks, trumpettes?
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       03-09-2020, 5:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
Trump gets up in front of the cameras at the CDC and all he can talk about are how high his ratings were on his appearance on Fox LOL. Oh and he said he only recently became aware that people died from the flu. derp
He is an imbicile.
His grand father died from the flu.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Trump
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-09-2020, 6:06 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
Your cult IS the side that continues to provide fake news while you cry about fake news. Its called lying, cheating and projection. Started with Spicer lying about crowd size and has only amped up. Keep crying snowflake. The stable genius is now on his 4th chief of staff, Mulvaney out, Trump butt sniffer Mark Meadows in. Not stable, not genius. Must be true, he said it himself...
"3 Chief of Staffs in less than 3 years of being President: Part of the reason why @BarackObama can't manage to pass his agenda," Trump wrote in one 2012 tweet.


https://www.businessinsider.com/twit...rce=reddit.com
Project much? The only snowflake crying is YOU!!! All those claims and yet, he's STILL kicking your teeth in. LOL You are powerless against Der Fuehrer!!! Yer gonna have to keep bowing down for another 4 years too! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       03-09-2020, 6:28 AM Reply   
Because you have trouble with understanding terms.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/projection
when you call him der fuehrer, is that the leader you emulate?
He is only there because he abuses the system, commonly known as cheating, aka the trump way.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-09-2020, 6:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
Because you have trouble with understanding terms.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/projection
when you call him der fuehrer, is that the leader you emulate?
He is only there because he abuses the system, commonly known as cheating, aka the trump way.
LOL You are like the Energizer Bunny in constant snowflake meltdown while you ironically attempt to co-opt the term snowflake and use it against the right which was started by the right to describe the left's (your) reaction to Trump's 2016 win. You are a textbook, poster boy for projection. What am I supposedly projecting? I called him Der Fuehrer as a joke. One that clearly went way over your head-which shouldn't surprise anyone because liberals like you are known to lack a sense of humor. You come on here every weekday and whine (in snowflake meltdown fashion) about all the bad that Orange Man is doing. All I've said is it doesn't matter how much you cry, it's not changing the fact that Trump keeps winning. How is that projecting?
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-09-2020, 6:50 AM Reply   
All that said, get back on your knees and bow down to your Trump Daddy for the next 4-1/2 years. LOL
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-09-2020, 6:53 AM Reply   
Oh, you can also enjoy watching him continue to stack the courts and weaken or kill Roe vs. Wade.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-09-2020, 7:15 AM Reply   
[QUOTE=95sn;1995386]
when you call him der fuehrer, is that the leader you emulate?

For the record, to my cat, Jinxie, I am Der Fuehrer.
Old     (lesstalkmoreride)      Join Date: Nov 2008       03-09-2020, 7:57 AM Reply   
For the record your cat hates you.
Now put on your big boy pants and write another middle school level paragraph to make yourself feel better.
Snowflake.

Last edited by lesstalkmoreride; 03-09-2020 at 7:58 AM. Reason: was going to be really abusive, but Im actually a reasonable person so I pulled back some.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-09-2020, 8:56 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lesstalkmoreride View Post
For the record your cat hates you.
Now put on your big boy pants and write another middle school level paragraph to make yourself feel better.
Snowflake.
Being reasonable to a guy like markj is a sign of weakness.
Old     (lesstalkmoreride)      Join Date: Nov 2008       03-09-2020, 9:06 AM Reply   
Haha. Well I might as well have some fun then at his expense.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-09-2020, 5:30 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lesstalkmoreride View Post
For the record your cat hates you.
Now put on your big boy pants and write another middle school level paragraph to make yourself feel better.
Snowflake.
You know my cat? Maybe she does. Good thing is it doesn’t matter though because it’s my world and she’s just living in it. If you recall, we were given dominion over all animals on this planet about 6,000 years ago by a certain Someone.

As for my cat and since I know you’re dying to know, I inherited her from the previous owners of my house. She mistakenly thinks she’s still welcome inside the house-which she is most certainly not since my wife is allergic to her. We get woken up regularly by meowing and pawing on windows and doors. I’m sure you feel sorry for me. Maybe there’s a government plan in place for people who suffer the same fate as me. Does Obamacare cover this? Can you help me in my suffering? I’m melting...
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-09-2020, 5:36 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
Being reasonable to a guy like markj is a sign of weakness.
You’re still not dead yet? Man, the meat wagon has probably run out of gas several times circling your house over the last year. Maybe you can at least tip the driver or bring him a snack... you also may want to keep a keen eye on those vultures hanging out nearby as well.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       03-09-2020, 6:14 PM Reply   
OK, now we get to find out if running budget deficits in a time of plenty was a good idea or not. First sign of a rain cloud and the republicans are already talking about tax cuts and stimulus packages. What happens to the deficits when the tax take goes down and entitlements go up?
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-09-2020, 6:21 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
OK, now we get to find out if running budget deficits in a time of plenty was a good idea or not. First sign of a rain cloud and the republicans are already talking about tax cuts and stimulus packages. What happens to the deficits when the tax take goes down and entitlements go up?
Hey I agree. I don’t follow a lot of tax policy minutia, but there is something to be said about lowering spending in accordance with tax cuts.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       03-09-2020, 7:43 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
Hey I agree.
Stop it, I'm starting to question my sanity now.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-10-2020, 4:29 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lesstalkmoreride View Post
Quit watching fox. Gives you worm brains.
Have not watched a single episode. That is such a tired weak response.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-10-2020, 4:32 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lesstalkmoreride View Post
And do you really believe everything Trump says?
I believe what my eyes tell me. I believe in history and stated well documented goals of political movements. I believe in the trends and I believe in that people do not understand much beyond the reach of their hand.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-10-2020, 4:32 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
50% of Americans won't drink Corona because of the virus. Also 50% of Americans voted for trump. Coincidence? I don't think so.
95% of all stats are made up on the spot.....
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-10-2020, 4:33 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
FOX covered it as well as the WAPO and a host of others. What is out of control is your blind faith cultish behavior. Your guy is a grifter, just admit it.
Still your president, . hahahahahahaha
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       03-10-2020, 4:34 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lesstalkmoreride View Post
How bout them stonks, trumpettes?
What is a stonk? Put down the bong.
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