Is the American Dream Dead?

Interesting map and topic for discussion. I know within my family with my siblings and parents, I don't think any of us will hit the income that my father generated simply due to him getting a degree in a complex field of study that yields good pay. As far as my mother goes, I make more than her but all my sisters make less which to me can be traced straight to their personal life choices. I chose a career path that requires a difficult life style and being gone away from home a lot that yields an above average income. I chose not to go to a university so making less than my father is 100% a result of my decisions. My sisters earn less than my mother because they simply do not share the work ethic that she put forth. She has a masters in nursing and while my oldest has a bachelors in nursing she'd rather not work at all unless she absolutely has to and my other older sister has basically no college and seems to have an income that reflects that. My other sister got married two months after graduating high school and also has no college and chose to live in a tiny west Texas town with limited opportunity. It seems to me that in the case of my family, our own personal decisions have a greater affect on whether or no we achieve the "American Dream" over the economic status of the country.

"The American Dream" is directly related to personal choices. If you want it, go get it, there is money to be made in all facets of life. It doesn't matter if you are a plumber, computer tech, DR work hard and the dream will come. The problem with today's society is that they are unwilling to work. Hell we have technicians that are 20-30 clearing $80k a year if they want to work for it. It drives me nuts when people say the American Dream is dead.

Originally Posted by mark197

"The American Dream" is directly related to personal choices. If you want it, go get it, there is money to be made in all facets of life. It doesn't matter if you are a plumber, computer tech, DR work hard and the dream will come. The problem with today's society is that they are unwilling to work. Hell we have technicians that are 20-30 clearing $80k a year if they want to work for it. It drives me nuts when people say the American Dream is dead.

Agreed. What's dead is ambition. What do you expect when the public school system preaches that everyone is a victim followed by even stronger preaching in college? The first thing I wanted to do as a teenager was work for a car so I could start being independent (and chase chicks of course). Nowadays, teenagers couldn't care less about cars or independence. They'd rather take and post pictures of themselves all day long.

Originally Posted by markj

Agreed. What's dead is ambition. What do you expect when the public school system preaches that everyone is a victim followed by even stronger preaching in college? The first thing I wanted to do as a teenager was work for a car so I could start being independent (and chase chicks of course). Nowadays, teenagers couldn't care less about cars or independence. They'd rather take and post pictures of themselves all day long.

Did you ever go to college? I cannot recall one lecture where a professor "preached" I was a "victim".

Originally Posted by wake77

Did you ever go to college? I cannot recall one lecture where a professor "preached" I was a "victim".

I think they did say I would be victimized by a big paycheck. And possibly forced to work in climate controlled conditions.

Originally Posted by wake77

Did you ever go to college? I cannot recall one lecture where a professor "preached" I was a "victim".

When did you graduate?

Originally Posted by rdlangston13

Interesting map and topic for discussion. I know within my family with my siblings and parents, I don't think any of us will hit the income that my father generated simply due to him getting a degree in a complex field of study that yields good pay.

That is very interesting, obviously your father did not force you and your siblings to go to college, but you were able to see first hand the benefits of going. Would he have helped pay for yours or your siblings college if you went? I ended up teaching engineering from 2000-2015 at the high school level and expected my two sons to do their best in college, both graduated from the Ohio State University in Mechanical engineering and now have great jobs! We also helped pay the tuition for them to go, that, and with internships they both graduated with no debt!

Originally Posted by joeshmoe

That is very interesting, obviously your father did not force you and your siblings to go to college, but you were able to see first hand the benefits of going. Would he have helped pay for yours or your siblings college if you went? I ended up teaching engineering from 2000-2015 at the high school level and expected my two sons to do their best in college, both graduated from the Ohio State University in Mechanical engineering and now have great jobs! We also helped pay the tuition for them to go, that, and with internships they both graduated with no debt!

No. My dad was kind of an ass in that respect and said he paid enough child support that my mom should have enough money to pay for our college. You know, even though she needed that money to raise us. My wife’s parents pushed her and her brother to go to college and helped out some but didn’t pay for all of it. I think my wife graduated with about the same amount of student loan debt as me (she has a bachelors in psychology, biology, AND nursing). Her brother graduated from TAMU and works for some software type company as a project manager so they are both doing well. Neither of her parents went to college.

Did you guys go to the links and dig around/check stats?
We all have anecdotes and exceptions, but the tools in the links help us see the bigger picture. It is undeniable that the zip code you are raised in has a massive effect on your chances of achieving the American dream.

And it’s safe to say that children can’t choose where their raised or who their parents are, no matter how much grit or ambition the child has...

Originally Posted by wakemitch

Did you guys go to the links and dig around/check stats?

We all have anecdotes and exceptions, but the tools in the links help us see the bigger picture. It is undeniable that the zip code you are raised in has a massive effect on your chances of achieving the American dream.



And it’s safe to say that children can’t choose where their raised or who their parents are, no matter how much grit or ambition the child has...

Yeah I poked around the links. I don’t think zipper codes are holding anyone back though. It’s the mentality of the population in that zip code. They get taught by their parents how to rely on the system or that the system is against them and the will never amount to anything and all that crap. Determination and little bit of good guidance can lift people out of their zip code trap. Problem is most people have bad guidance in those zip codes.

Originally Posted by rdlangston13

No. My dad was kind of an ass in that respect and said he paid enough child support that my mom should have enough money to pay for our college. You know, even though she needed that money to raise us..

Having watched multiple co workers, friends, etc go though this & be taken to the cleaners by ex's, I side with your dad. Many dudes I know dads lived very frugally giving a vast majority of their money to ex spouses & support for the kids. When the kids were 19 it was only then they were able to actually start building their lives over & save for retirement & what not. Obviously details & situations change from person to person but you get what I'm getting at.

Originally Posted by wombat2wombat

Having watched multiple co workers, friends, etc go though this & be taken to the cleaners by ex's, I side with your dad. Many dudes I know dads lived very frugally giving a vast majority of their money to ex spouses & support for the kids. When the kids were 19 it was only then they were able to actually start building their lives over & save for retirement & what not. Obviously details & situations change from person to person but you get what I'm getting at.

Yeah are definitely women out there who take advantage of the system but that was not our situation at all. My parents divorced when I was 1 and I had two older sisters as well. From the time I was 1 until I turned 18 and he stopped paying my mother never took him to court to request more money based on his salary increasing over the years. And his salary went up a lot over the years. He got off very easy. I’m not bitter about, we have a great relationship but I just want to be clear that my mom was not the kind to abuse the system. She put herself through college as a single mom and got a associates in nursing and worked as an RN. She now has her masters in nursing. Never met a harder working lady.

Originally Posted by rdlangston13

Her brother graduated from TAMU and works for some software type company as a project manager so they are both doing well. Neither of her parents went to college.

The fact that neither of your wife's parents went to college is another statistic worth looking at, the lowest percent of students who don't go to college are students whose parents didn't go to college, so, congratulations to your wife! I am all for going to college to earn more money, but, just because a couple goes to college and they get good jobs after they graduate does not guarantee success(maybe success for their kids because they live in affluent school districts) I know a couple that always had 6 figure income, each, and their house was foreclosed on! What did they do? They bought a bigger house! Some people just cannot live within their means. Me? I can live on $10 a day and I live five miles from Walt Disney World on a canal that is connected to a lake that is one mile long, life is good!