wakesurfing?

O.K. so I feel like a morron. Every magazine or online article I read talks about how easy wakesurfing is but I just don't get it. I'm fine with the rope but if I try to drop the rope i've lost it. I have a hyperlite landlock and if I pump it too hard to get speed I dig the nose in and over I go. If I try to pump it lightly the wake just rolls by. What speed should I have the boat at? Any tips? Any tips at all?

thanks
-duncan

Duncan...I picked up a Landlock this year and learned to keep it going without a rope for a while. I think the key is to keep your weight more forward and on the front outside edges. We ride behind a Super Air at about 10mph. We also empty one side tank and get everyone on the full tank side of the boat, that seems to help. Good luck.

Can it be done with a wakeskate? Or is that type of board to small?

It might be dependent on your boat. I tried it yesterday behind an I/O wich normally has a huge wake and it was all washy couldn't get it to work. But if we go behind an Air Natique no problem.


Skiing made me board,
Lyle
Chrome Dome Industries

I've never surfed in the ocean but I've surfed behind the boat. The type of boat makes a big difference, and I think if you just throw your arms and shoulders back and lean over the nose of the board you'll pick up some speed and be able to keep up. Don't pump, just concentrate on getting your weight forward or back to control the speed of the board.

Jason - we tried it on a wakeskate yesterday. You can do it but there isn't any way that you can let go of the rope and cruise on the wakeskate. It's just too short of a board and has too much drag. At 10 mph it just plows, but it's still fun. Try it!

Duncan, we also have a landlock and experienced the same trouble. On our last outing we came across someone riding and asked them to give us some pointers. I was surprised at how sensitive the balance point was cause everybody makes it look so easy - other boards probably are easier. If you have gotten to the point where you have coasted at all (like when you get too fast & almost hit the swim platform and have to back off) then you can do it.

Here's the trick. On the board, you need to put more weight on your front foot to accelerate and shift weight on your back foot to brake. Again the balance point is very very very delicate. We make our rope 12 feet long and use a rope with a wrap handle so we can climb the rope easily if needed. Did I mention the balance point was delicate?...OK, remember that.
We had full ballast and 3 adults onboard. Our "coach" had us put the wedge up, adjust our weight to 70:30 on the rider's side of the boat and had us keep some weight in front too. It worked. (FYI we were riding the previous weekend with 7 adults huddled in the back corner, full ballast, the wedge down - the wave was HUGE and still we couldn't get it, so don't feel bad)

I'm sure it is a lot like riding a unicycle. Very difficult at first but soon you will be juggling.
We're not riding for miles yet but we're getting better.

Here is a video clip, it is small but for some reason it takes a long time to download.
http://www.thevogts.com/wtf/wakesurf_0004.wmv

Gregg your video clip is great. I ride in about the same spot on the wake as you do and I definitely think the front to rear position on the board is most important. I have found that moving around on the board helps the speed: more weight forward to go faster and more weight back to drag or slow down.

Gregg...try this, (you may have already figured this out). Ollie up on your toe side to the middle part of the wake, right where all the "lift" is right behind the center of your boat. As you get this "lift", turn the board back to your left to "drop in" and ride the wave out a bit. This will help you get speed. You can repeat this process and it will help you move around the wake. I have a small surfing clip if anyone is interested. I can mail it to you. Just send me an e-mail jay.gasaway@tinker.af.mil

Duncan,
Some boats are a bit more sensitive to weighting than others to get the best surf wake.
Rode this AM before work and got a quick surf set in on the way back to the dock. First time surfing behind a friends new Moomba. Started out with stock ballast and an extra bag in the back corner… wake plate was down…You could surf it but too much of a cutback and the wake would roll on by.

Once we drained the bag on the opposite side and left the wake plate all the way up… voila! The wake cleaned up and was much easier to surf.

We also had to do some experimenting on Scotty’s Toyota to get the surf wake dialed.

Try a few different set ups for weighting to see if that helps… if you get the wake dialed in the sweet spot for holding the wave is much bigger.

Good luck… What area of Lake WA do you ride?

I have tried it, but never could let go of the rope. It was fun just cutting up and down and doing some surface spins, but wanted to see if anybody has been able to let go of the rope or if it was just us.

I am going to demo a landlock next weekend, and see if I can let go then.


How sharpe of an arc do you have to turn?

There is one thing on this thread I have not seen mentioned which I think is the most important part of getting dialed in the wake.

Weight forward will accelerate and weight back will slow the board down. This has been repeated and is important. More importantly, the key is putting your toes close to the inside rail and keeping pressure on the toes. Don't put your feet exactly in the center of the board, you should be 3/4 over to the inside rail on the board. This is more important than being too far forward or too far back on the board in my opinion.

So when you are going toeside, which you should be for surfing to start out, imagine keeping the weight on the toeside rail like you are carving the board right into the curl. Once you do this, you will feel the board get dialed into the wake and then you just have to lean back or forward to keep in the sweet spot. When you don't keep that inside pressure, the board drifts away from the boat and you then lose the sweet spot and you go down. I have yet to see someone go to far into the curl and go over the top of the wake over to heelside by accident. Keeping the board going into the curl will help you lock into the sweet spot. Hope that makes sense. We give this advice to everyone and it makes an immediate improvement. Try it...it works!

Hey,
Thanks everyone for the tips and keep 'em coming.
It sounds like a lot of people are having or have had the same problems I'm running into so I feel a bit better and Greg, thanks for the video and the tips, I think I'm not too far behind you. There was a few times I hooked up for maybe 2 to 3 seconds.
I ride behind a supra sunsport. Last night we had the boat loaded (10 people, Yikes!) We drained one of the fatsacs to make room but w/ 10 people weight was not an issue. I tried riding with just about everyone in the back on one side and the swim platform was about 10" underwater. The wake was huge but washy at 10 mph. At 13 mph it had a nice clean curl but was too fast to keep up with. From everyone's comments it sounds like I need to work on the shape of the wake. I'll play around this weekend with speed and moving body's around the boat for a cleaner wake and work on the delicate balance.

Again, Thanks everyone and keep the tips coming.

P.S. Jeff we usually ride south of I-90 along the shore or down around renton. Wherever we can find the calmest spots on the south/west end.

-duncan

Duncan check your email
Scott

It's easy once you find the sweet spot. I had my first successful surfing run with a beer in hand.

J-rod, What kinda board? What kinda beer?

Jayman, thanks for the clip. Pretty funny...they need to make rubber noses for the boards, it just might keep the platform and transome from getting banged up. Also, do you have a clip of the ollie manuver? I think I know that you are saying, I'd just like a visual.

Here are some wake surfing videos! Maybe they will help.
http://www.hyperlite.com/boards/popups/landlock_vid_select.asp
http://www.wakepics.com/view_single.php?medid=5524
http://www.wakepics.com/view_single.php?medid=5568
http://www.wakepics.com/view_single.php?medid=4603
http://www.wakepics.com/view_single.php?medid=5113
http://www.wakepics.com/view_single.php?medid=5105
http://www.wakepics.com/view_single.php?medid=4035

What I did was, don't let go of the handle, just ride with a slack line, then when you loose the sweet spot, you don't have to stop and turn the boat around. Then just keep trying to find the sweet spot, then once you get a few good rides where you didn't need the line (but still have it), then start letting go of it. Because if you start letting go of the rope right away, you'll spend alot of time swimming. Just get used to where the sweet spot is a few time before you let go of the rope. Thats my novice opinion, but it worked well for me.
hope this helps

(Message edited by kristian on June 06, 2003)

Where is your video Kris??? J/k

Novice opinion, Hah! It seem that you've been riding with BillJ. It surely helps to be hanging with a guru like him. If that's the case, your advice is deemed not only valid but "golden" as well.

You probably have a lot of video too.

Yep, I've been getting alot of advice from Bill J. But I've only been wakesurfing twice(and never really surfed in the ocean). And with his advice I can already wakesurf OK, can't keep it going very long, but its getting better. But I gotta say, wakesurfing is so much fun.

They do make rubber noses for the boards. There called Nose Guards. I got mine from http://www.ronjons.com/rjssstore/product.detail.asp?pf_id=6020-1223&dept_id=660 . They come in several colors, I got a clear one by calling them on the phone. Haven't lost it yet.

I just say a list of the entries; I guess the prize money and all the free giveaway stuff have generated some interest. Look like about 40 to 50 amateurs and they are only allowing 20 open division riders in the semi finals.

Centurion World WakeSurfing Championships
Entry Fee:
$50 Open Division
$25 Amateur Division

Open Division Prize Money Pay-Out
1st $4,000
2nd $2,500
3rd $1,300
4th $800
5th $500
6th $400
7th $300
8th $200

Total $10,000

Amateurs will be competing for prizes such as Wake Surfboards from Inland Surfer, Trick Boardz, Shred Stixx, Phase Five Spun Surfboards and Surf Tech. Prizes will also include boat accessories from Pro Flight Towers, Wetbox Custom Tower Speakers and other goodies.
Riders will be judged on:
Best Surf Style
Most Impressive Hot Dogging
Best Longboard Style
Most Innovative Trick
Most Impressive Recovery


Friday:
8:00 am - Amateur Divisions
Boys
Girls
Men
Women
2:00 pm - Open Division Challenge
Anyone wishing to challenge the pro will need to ride in the Friday Challenge to compete in the Open Division semi-finals.
Saturday:
9:00 am - Semi Finals. Top 8 riders will move on to finals
12:00 noon - Double-Up Wakeboard Demo by Brett Eisenhauer and the Aussie crew!
2:00 Finals Top 8 riders will battle for the prize money.

http://www.centurionboats.com/Wakesurf/wakesurf.html

(Message edited by Bad_boy on June 07, 2003)

Hey Blaine (bad boy)
Should be there on Wednesday to help set up.
Thanks for Saturday.
Alan Bogdanoff

Ronnie, Thanks for the link. I'm gonna get me one.

Duncan, a couple more point that might help you out.
1) keep your feet towards the wake (if surfing frontside, put your toes closer to the toeside rail, closer to the wake).
2) don't have your feet all the way back on the tail, bring them forward a little.

This makes no sense but it worked. I have a 2000 moomba outback we had 4people and 700 lbs on one side the surfer could not get it. I tried driving a arch to his side but no luck. i was on a river so i could only arch a short dist then i had to turn the other way and start a new arch. when i was turning the arch the opposite way the crew started yellin. i looked in the mirror and he was surfin a huge clean wake no handle. try driving a arch the opposite way it worked for us he went about 30 sec.

I'm not claiming to be an expert in the art of Wakesurfing but I do happen to be pretty good with a surfboard. Bill J showed me how to wakesurf 2 weekends ago behind his boat on an official wakesurfing board. Yesterday we rode behind my boat on my 6'5" Channel Islands (regular surfboard).

Anyway, my opinion on where the speed comes from in wakesurfing is pretty simple. It's gravity! Anything you can do to get the board up to the top of the steep part of the wake is going to generate speed because it'll slide back down. Aside from basic balance, that appears to be the only secret. Working-it, or "pumping-it" is simply a way of thrusting the board up onto the steep spot, which you can do just as easily by positioning and balancing when you're just standing there... just not as much fun

Here are some clips:

Longer:
http://www.wakepics.com/view_single.php?medid=7535

Shorter:
http://www.wakepics.com/view_single.php?medid=7536

Same board on a "real" wave (small day):
http://www.wakepics.com/view_single.php?medid=7545

-Monkey

Hey everyone, Thanks for all the advise. It worked great and I got in some fun rides in this weekend. My longest was only about 30 seconds but still I'm feeling good.
Thanks again
-d