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Old     (Froggy)      Join Date: Nov 2013       02-29-2016, 4:24 AM Reply   
I saw this today it breaks it down pretty simply . Too bad the same can be said for a lot of the Republicans?

. I voted Democratic because I love the fact that I can now marry whatever I want. I now may marry my Labrador.

2. I voted Democratic because I believe oil companies’ profits of 4 percent on a gallon of gas are obscene but the government taxing the same gallon of gas at 15 percent isn’t.

3. I voted Democratic because I believe the government will do a better job of spending the money I earn than I would.

4. I voted Democratic because freedom of speech is fine as long as I agree with what is said and nobody else is offended by it.

5. I voted Democratic because I’m way too irresponsible to own a gun and I know that my local police are all I need to protect me from murderers and thieves.

6. I voted Democratic because I believe that people who can’t tell us if it will rain on Friday can tell us that the polar ice caps will melt away in 10 years if I don’t start driving a Prius.

7. I voted Democratic because I’m not concerned about millions of babies being aborted so long as we keep all death row inmates alive.

8. I voted Democratic because I think illegal aliens have a right to free health care, education and Social Security benefits, and we should take away the Social Security from those who paid into it.

9. I voted Democratic because I believe that businesses should not be allowed to make profits for themselves. They need to break even and give the rest away to the government for redistribution as the Democrats see fit.

10. I voted Democratic because I believe liberal judges need to rewrite the Constitution every few days to suit some fringe kooks who would never get their agendas past the voters.

11. I voted Democratic because I think that it’s better to pay billions for their oil to people who hate us but not drill our own because it might upset some endangered beetle, spotted owl, gopher or fish.

12. I voted Democratic because my head is so firmly misplaced toward the south end of my body, it’s unlikely that I’ll ever have another point of view.

His letter concluded with the statement:

“No trees, Spotted Owls or Red Cock-headed Woodpeckers were harmed in the sending of this message.”
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-29-2016, 8:03 AM Reply   
^^^^ This all sounds like hate speech so u must be a racist^^^^ shame on you froggy!!!! LOL
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       02-29-2016, 8:57 AM Reply   
He's an antidentight.
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       02-29-2016, 8:57 AM Reply   
I had to see what the Republican version was:

1. I voted Republican because you can blame problems on poor people instead of the rich ones who actually run things.

2. I voted Republican because firefighters and teachers are scum-sucking leaches, but the oil companies raking in record profits NEED those hundreds of millions in taxpayer subsidies.

3. I voted Republican because I believe companies like my cable TV provider, insurance company and credit card company could do a better job running the country than the government, no matter how much they screw me over.

4. I voted Republican because I don’t trust the government, although I favored the government spying on my health/financial records and tapping my phone when Bush was in office to keep us safe from ‘trrists.

5. I voted Republican because I don't really care whether terrorists, murderers and drug dealers own guns or not.

6. I voted Republican because I believe climate change doesn't exist; if I can't see it with my own two eyes, it doesn't exist. Like gravity.

7. I voted Republican because I hate women having abortions, but once the baby is born and dies from a preventable illness that’ okay.

8. I voted Republican because I believe in laying off workers to boost profits; then I get to complain about lazy unemployed people.

9. I voted Republican because I understand capitalism. Demand doesn’t increase jobs…ensuring corporations pay no taxes and cutting healthcare and education does.

10. I voted Republican because I care about the deficit and support cutting services that I really need. But extra tax cuts for the superrich that actually caused the deficit should be extended indefinitely.

11. I voted Republican because I believe in never having to solve any problems in the government because I insist government is the problem anyway.

12. I voted Republican because I hate activist judges, unless they are conservative (Yes, corporations should get to spend unlimited money in elections).

13. I voted Republican because spite and fear is better than hope and change.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-29-2016, 9:18 AM Reply   
Weak sauce, Timmy. Weak sauce.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-29-2016, 9:30 AM Reply   
The one Timmy posted was an unoriginal-in-thought rebuttal to the original one posted by Froggy. It was like a 12 year old's knee jerk response. Uber lame.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-29-2016, 9:40 AM Reply   
Seems like a 12 yo knee jerk *is* the appropriate response to the rants of a simpleton.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-29-2016, 9:49 AM Reply   
John, you clearly missed the tongue-in-cheek, witty and humerous nature of the original. Further proof that liberals take themselves way too seriously. Heck, I even laughed at #6 of the one Timmy posted.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-29-2016, 10:07 AM Reply   
OK, so the first one was tongue in cheek and the response was too close to home? Because I'm not really seeing much of a difference.
Old     (hco)      Join Date: Jun 2006       02-29-2016, 11:34 AM Reply   
Wakeworld politics has dissolved into posting garbage email chain letters or facebook memes. Bunch of intellectuals!
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       02-29-2016, 11:58 AM Reply   
None of them offend me and I can see a little bit of truth in all 25 of them.
Old     (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       03-01-2016, 6:25 AM Reply   
None of them offended me. What offends me is it looks like we the people will have to choose between Hilary Clinton and Donald Trump. That's a no win situation.
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       03-01-2016, 4:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
None of them offended me. What offends me is it looks like we the people will have to choose between Hilary Clinton and Donald Trump. That's a no win situation.
Amen to that!
Old    deltahoosier            03-02-2016, 10:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by hco View Post
Wakeworld politics has dissolved into posting garbage email chain letters or facebook memes. Bunch of intellectuals!
Dissolved? Should have seen the election from 8 years ago....
Old     (brettw)      Join Date: Jul 2007       03-04-2016, 8:36 PM Reply   
In November, the answer might simply be 'how could any educated informed person in their right mind possibly vote for Trump'.

This election year is going to be a matter of voting for the least worst.

The generalizations of the 1st post are just stupid, btw unless simply meant as a joke.
Old     (VanillaGorilla)      Join Date: Nov 2015       03-05-2016, 9:54 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettw View Post
In November, the answer might simply be 'how could any educated informed person in their right mind possibly vote for Trump'.

This election year is going to be a matter of voting for the least worst.

The generalizations of the 1st post are just stupid, btw unless simply meant as a joke.
How about, "I'm voting for a convict".

I'm not a Trump supporter...don't get me wrong but anyone that would pick Clinton, 1 or 2 is crazy.

Any Republican on the ballot... including Trump is a better choice than a life long liar.
Old     (CALIV210)      Join Date: Jun 2015       03-05-2016, 11:00 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanillaGorilla View Post
How about, "I'm voting for a convict".

I'm not a Trump supporter...don't get me wrong but anyone that would pick Clinton, 1 or 2 is crazy.

Any Republican on the ballot... including Trump is a better choice than a life long liar.

100 percent right !!! I'd vote for Dr Friggin Dre before I'd ever vote for that damn Hillary Clinton . I used to lean to the democrat side until I became a hard working adult then I saw the light .
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-05-2016, 11:25 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanillaGorilla View Post
Any Republican on the ballot... including Trump is a better choice than a life long liar.
Yeah, when I think of an honest man I think of Trump.
Old     (VanillaGorilla)      Join Date: Nov 2015       03-05-2016, 6:46 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by CALIV210 View Post
100 percent right !!! I'd vote for Dr Friggin Dre before I'd ever vote for that damn Hillary Clinton . I used to lean to the democrat side until I became a hard working adult then I saw the light .
Thank you!

Deficit spending... "we are selling our children's future". Obama 08... now over TWICE the US debt... more than ALL former presidents COMBINED.

Labor participation rate worst in history...


Benghazi ... oh yeah I forgot... that was a "demonstration that got out of hand due to a YouTube video".... Bull**** to fill your head. They were briefed at 0642 about the attack but lied to us later in the same day. She lied to the families of Woods, Dohetry, Steven's and Smith. The compound wasn't built anywhere near Inman standards... and Steven's repeated request for more DS agents and GSR agents was REPEATEDLY denied. Don't dare blame Hillary, she was just the Secretary of state. Not her problem.

Obama and her were running guns without congressional notification.
Above the law...

Hillary's war... How's that working in Libia?

MANPADS from Libia documented to have shot down AT LEAST one US helicopter taking the lifes of brave US soldiers. I'm glad she can sleep at night.

Don't even get me started about her email scandal....

Last edited by VanillaGorilla; 03-05-2016 at 6:53 PM.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       03-05-2016, 8:44 PM Reply   
I'm not a fan of Hillary Clinton, but you guys really are hilarious. Sometimes I think Faux News is actually a secret anti-conservative conspiracy to keep loonbirds all spun up over non-issues so their party gradually self-destructs. Looks like this is the year it finally reaches that point.
Old     (VanillaGorilla)      Join Date: Nov 2015       03-06-2016, 4:14 AM Reply   
You would prefer I were a mushroom? : )

I watch Faux News... I also watch CNN and even MSNBC. I read newspapers. I listen to Patriot Radio too but most of what I have learned about Benghazi has been from 3 books.

13 Hours. Fast read from the operator pov.

Under Fire by Burton & Katz. Good read that explains the chain of events and some of why.

By far the best on Benghazi IMO is Dark Forces by Kenneth Timmerman. It is well sourced and tells, in depth the story behind what the State dept. and Obama were up to...
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-06-2016, 9:01 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanillaGorilla View Post
Hillary's war... How's that working in Libia?
Way better than Bush's war in Iraq went. Not that I'm defending either. Just trying to put things in perspective. Which include the Benghazi bulls**t. Seriously? Four people die and you are reading books to make sure you get the full scoop? Are you reading the whole freak'n library to figure out where the last Republican President went wrong? Which includes tripling the deficit spending before leaving office. And what about the embassy personnel that died during the other administrations, including the 60 during Bush? How many books have you read on them? There's a difference between being informed and being manipulated.
Old     (VanillaGorilla)      Join Date: Nov 2015       03-06-2016, 1:33 PM Reply   
Wow. Yes, I have read a LOT of books. It's my passtime. Just because there have been other attacks doesn't justify their actions in Benghazi. Why don't you try it sometime? Hillary's war is an absolute failure. Libia is a vacuum being filled with ISIS. Which Bush war? You need to be a little more specific...there were two. Bush may have increased spending but the Nation was less than half as in debt as it is a scant 7 years later. Oh yea, your Obama was promising to CUT the federal deficit, not over double it. Keep dreaming your liberal dream of rainbows and unicorns while your elected officials treat you like a mushroom. Oh, and definitely keep attacking other people for doing the research to actually learn the truth. Good job.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       03-06-2016, 2:04 PM Reply   
Do you know the difference between debt and deficit? Maybe you need to read some different books...

Obama has reduced the deficit he inherited year after year - This year's is 1/3 of what he inherited in 2009 (bush's budget). The debt has grown from about 10 to 17.5 tr, which is also not more than doubling as you claim.

I'm far from an expert but this guy seems to break it down the complexity in a pretty straightforward way:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...t-in-7-charts/
Old     (VanillaGorilla)      Join Date: Nov 2015       03-06-2016, 2:08 PM Reply   
You mean like this?


Looks GREAT in the last 7 years... what was I thinking? Yes, I meant DEFICIT. It's the little blue lines... see them get OVER twice as tall?

Last edited by VanillaGorilla; 03-06-2016 at 2:14 PM.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       03-06-2016, 2:13 PM Reply   
I have no idea what you were thinking...because your chart (which is of course an oversimplification of the situation) completely contradicts what you wrote...
Old     (VanillaGorilla)      Join Date: Nov 2015       03-06-2016, 2:16 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
I have no idea what you were thinking...because your chart (which is of course an oversimplification of the situation) completely contradicts what you wrote...
How????? The red is the INCREASE in debt. Not the overall debt. Obama has increased DEFICIT spending like crazy and has increased the national DEBT more than all previous presidents combined. Can we not agree that is true?
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       03-06-2016, 2:30 PM Reply   
First of all, can we agree that any president inherits the budget of their predecessor for their first year in office? If we can't agree on that then there's no point in having a discussion as reality is being denied.

You wrote "yea, your Obama was promising to CUT the federal deficit, not over double it.""

Right there you write that Obama more than doubled the deficit, yet your chart clearly shows that the deficit has dropped each year he has created a budget as shown by the smaller blue line each year in your chart.

Also, you do know what deficit means right? The difference in spending vs income. So not only did Obama inherit a huge bailout budget, but also the recession (income drops because tax revenue is lower than usual) AND irresponsible tax cuts from bush which can't be changed right away - not to mention the bill for the wars. Despite all that, the deficit continued to shrink each year.

Did you even take a look at the article I posted? It seems pretty even handed and points out that while there little reason to cheer the situation, it's certainly hard to fault Obama for where things stand.
Old     (VanillaGorilla)      Join Date: Nov 2015       03-06-2016, 3:20 PM Reply   
Ok, let me simplify this for you. Left side of chart = Bush
Right side = Obama

Which looks better? He's had 7 years to do what he wants with it.

I understand we all have the right to affiliate with whomever we wish but the only person you are fooling is yourself.
Old     (VanillaGorilla)      Join Date: Nov 2015       03-06-2016, 3:25 PM Reply   
Oh, and your guess on what the current debt is is off by a couple of trillion too. It's ACTUALLY 19.1 trillion and growing.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       03-06-2016, 3:26 PM Reply   
So your statement was true or false? hint, it's the latter. But you'll just keep spouting incorrect information and moving on or changing the subject. I have a feeling that may be the MO of all the books you're reading too. Fact checking be damned...

And again, as I mentioned more than once, your chart is kind of pointless and oversimplified. Here's another one of the same ilk.
Attached Images
 
Old     (VanillaGorilla)      Join Date: Nov 2015       03-06-2016, 4:15 PM Reply   
What Planet are you on? Lol, keep backing the "20 Trillion dollar man". Your president is the one that lied, not me. Or are you saying that he didn't campaign on balancing the budget and reducing debt? "We are selling our children's future" I believe is what he said. Despite his gallant white horse riding effort the evil president Bush somehow beat him.... blah blah blah. Make all the excuses you want, I can care less. I have hard numbers on my side and you have twisted views on yours. A dollar is a dollar, no need to complicate it more.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-06-2016, 4:41 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanillaGorilla View Post
Bush may have increased spending but the Nation was less than half as in debt as it is a scant 7 years later. Oh yea, your Obama was promising to CUT the federal deficit, not over double it. Keep dreaming your liberal dream of rainbows and unicorns while your elected officials treat you like a mushroom. Oh, and definitely keep attacking other people for doing the research to actually learn the truth. Good job.
Guess you need to read more books because Obama did cut the deficit. He most definitely did not double it. I know what is going on in our economy. I don't need elected officials to tell me. BTW, if you don't know the difference between deficit and debt then you must be still reading books from elementary school.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-06-2016, 4:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanillaGorilla View Post
You mean like this?


Looks GREAT in the last 7 years... what was I thinking? Yes, I meant DEFICIT. It's the little blue lines... see them get OVER twice as tall?
The 2009 budget was passed before Obama took office. The deficit basically dropped every year since budgets were passed under Obama.
Old     (VanillaGorilla)      Join Date: Nov 2015       03-06-2016, 4:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
The 2009 budget was passed before Obama took office. The deficit basically dropped every year since budgets were passed under Obama.
Ok, so NOW your changing your story AFTER you actually looked at the chart. I don't know WTF you think you know but your wrong.... now you went from Obama never doubled the deficit to , "he basically" reduced it...lmao. like I told Pesos, Bush left side, Nobama right side...read it and weep. Why the hell do you think I don't know the difference in deficit and debt. He over doubled deficit spending and took the nation from 10.6 trillion to 19.1 trillion in debt and counting. RAINBOWS and UNICORNS, keep telling yourself that while you eat the **** they feed you in the dark....mushroom.
Old     (VanillaGorilla)      Join Date: Nov 2015       03-06-2016, 7:15 PM Reply   
Ok. I'll try this one last time... it's hard to get mushrooms to grow in the daylight but here goes anyway.

Total Federal deficit during Bush was slightly over 2 trillion. 2,007.1 billion.

Total federal deficit since Hussein has been in 6.7 trillion. 6,717 billion.

Did I count 09? You bet I did. Put 09 on Bush and it's 3,547.4 billion for him and 5,304 for Hussein....plus two more years to add.

Huge increase in deficit spending by Obama.
https://youtu.be/6x5wCxxUX7M
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       03-06-2016, 7:35 PM Reply   
As previously mentioned and completely ignored by you, what do you think created these deficits? Increased spending by Obama? Nope:
Attached Images
 
Old     (VanillaGorilla)      Join Date: Nov 2015       03-06-2016, 8:11 PM Reply   
Ok, if you really believe your chart, why did he campaign on the fact he was going to reduce the federal debt? Which is it? Was he stupid or was he a liar?

...and did you even watch the video I posted? Very scientific explanation.

Last edited by VanillaGorilla; 03-06-2016 at 8:13 PM.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       03-06-2016, 8:34 PM Reply   
It doesn't appear that he was stupid, nor a liar - but a quick google of your claim makes it clear that you might be one or both. You still can't tell the difference between the debt and deficit. Are you being deliberately obtuse on this point? You realize they are two totally different words right? He said the goal was to cut the DEFICIT in half by the end of his first term.

You must be watching this kind of Faux News-esque crap where they constantly confuse the debt and deficit, and edit things heavily to make false claims (also known as lying):
http://www.politifact.com/florida/st...able-one-term/
Old     (VanillaGorilla)      Join Date: Nov 2015       03-06-2016, 9:02 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
It doesn't appear that he was stupid, nor a liar - but a quick google of your claim makes it clear that you might be one or both. You still can't tell the difference between the debt and deficit. Are you being deliberately obtuse on this point? You realize they are two totally different words right?
Dude. I stated that the D-E-F-I-C-I-T was over double. Take each years deficit, the amount OVER budget and add them together over the years in office. I completely understand the difference between the two. It appears you don't. The chart shows the same. I am not debating the breakdown of federal spending. I am, and did state the deficit is over double what it was when Bush was in office. Simple numbers, you have a problem with that. Go back and watch the video again and listen to your fellow constituent explain "hope and change". I'm done with this thread. I can only defend factual numbers so many ways. Oh yea, campaigning on "we are selling our children's future" is reference to DEBT. Having a deficit leads to debt.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       03-06-2016, 9:24 PM Reply   
Obama specifically said his goal was to cut the 1.3 trillion dollar deficit spend he inherited from bush (2009) in half by the end of his first term. It went from 1.3tr to 900mil. He missed the mark. But to say that he more than doubled it is ridiculous - it was Bush that did that. The whole reason Obama even made such a lofty goal was exactly BECAUSE of the incredibly inflated budget bush passed with tarp and the tax cuts etc! Do you really think he was talking about the 2008 number? Of course you do, because you only look at the heavily edited videos and have zero context. Anyone with half a brain knows he was specifically referring to the giant 1.3tr deficit he inherited as he approached office.

Maybe you need to consider your sentence structure a little bit if you want to convince people that you know the difference between debt and deficit, because your quote from above clearly appears to conflate the two:
" Bush may have increased spending but the Nation was less than half as in debt as it is a scant 7 years later. Oh yea, your Obama was promising to CUT the federal deficit, not over double it."
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       03-06-2016, 9:32 PM Reply   
Another of your quotes where you continue to confuse the deficit and debt:

"Ok, if you really believe your chart, why did he campaign on the fact he was going to reduce the federal debt? Which is it? Was he stupid or was he a liar?"

He DIDNT campaign on that at all. Again, he specifically stated a goal to cut the 1.3tr DEFICIT he was inheriting by the end of his first term. You do realize that it's impossible to decrease the debt if you have a deficit right? Even a one dollar deficit means that you are increasing the debt (doesn't even take into account interest).

So to apply your own dichotomy to yourself, were you lying when you said that he campaigned on reducing the debt? Or were you just stupid?
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-07-2016, 6:54 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanillaGorilla View Post
Ok, so NOW your changing your story AFTER you actually looked at the chart. I don't know WTF you think you know but your wrong.... now you went from Obama never doubled the deficit to , "he basically" reduced it...lmao.
If you were as intelligent as you think you are then you would know that there is nothing inconsistent about my statement. Saying he reduced the deficit and didn't double it are perfectly understandable. So why are you having such a problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VanillaGorilla View Post
like I told Pesos, Bush left side, Nobama right side...read it and weep. Why the hell do you think I don't know the difference in deficit and debt. He over doubled deficit spending and took the nation from 10.6 trillion to 19.1 trillion in debt and counting. RAINBOWS and UNICORNS, keep telling yourself that while you eat the **** they feed you in the dark....mushroom.
The reason why I know that you don't know the difference between deficit and debt is because he didn't double deficit spending. The 2009 budget was passed during the Bush administration and the deficit went down after hat.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-07-2016, 7:01 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanillaGorilla View Post
Dude. I stated that the D-E-F-I-C-I-T was over double. Take each years deficit, the amount OVER budget and add them together over the years in office.
When you add up the deficit you are calculating debt. It's something you learn in calculus so I'm guessing that you don't know anything about that. When informed people talk about the deficit and whether it's being reduced or increased they are not summing it into debt. Because then they would be talking about debt. However the knuckledragger society likes to contort the truth into something that sounds better. And that is where this misconception comes from. I suggest you stop listening to them.
Old     (tweeder)      Join Date: Aug 2015       03-07-2016, 7:18 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
When you add up the deficit you are calculating debt. It's something you learn in calculus so I'm guessing that you don't know anything about that. When informed people talk about the deficit and whether it's being reduced or increased they are not summing it into debt. Because then they would be talking about debt. However the knuckledragger society likes to contort the truth into something that sounds better. And that is where this misconception comes from. I suggest you stop listening to them.
When will people realize making comments like the second one bolded does nothing to help your argument but turn people off and deters anyone that was sitting on the fence about supporting your side. Seeing how individuals from the left behave on multiple forums have turned my off from ever wanting to be democrat. Something about a lack of ethics and morals I see on display.

Two, budget and deficit calculations have nothing to do with calculus unless you are some how using integrals, derivatives, taylor series or riemann sums, limits etc. to figure it out. Please try not to insult someone on their intelligence when the post above illustrates that you do not know anything about calculus either.

Last edited by tweeder; 03-07-2016 at 7:19 AM. Reason: ***
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-07-2016, 7:45 AM Reply   
Integrating the deficit produces the debt. Trust me, nobody here is on the fence. We don't have to be PC. It doesn't serve any purpose.

And since you had no problem with vanilla continually making the wrong claim over and over I'm guessing that what you really have a problem with is my political position.

Last edited by fly135; 03-07-2016 at 7:48 AM.
Old     (tweeder)      Join Date: Aug 2015       03-07-2016, 8:25 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
Integrating the deficit produces the debt. Trust me, nobody here is on the fence. We don't have to be PC. It doesn't serve any purpose.

And since you had no problem with vanilla continually making the wrong claim over and over I'm guessing that what you really have a problem with is my political position.
Yeah the equation used for that is a differential equation, but unless you are deriving it you do not need to know calculus but just be proficient in algebra. Business calc is a joke and gives you no real knowledge or understanding of the subject.

Nobody here commenting is on the fence, but what about the people that are just lurking around the forums? It isn't about being PC. It's about being a compassionate human. People will look at how you behave and pass judgement on your position based on their observations. You can get your point across with out the name calling, with out the demeaning attitude. You would be much more successful at getting the people to support your argument with out all that bs.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-07-2016, 8:55 AM Reply   
Tweeder, lets reframe this conversation. You have no problem with Vanilla spreading misinformation. You have no problem with him continuing to repeat and defend that misinformation even when he's been informed that it is wrong and why it's wrong. But if someone suggests that willful ignorance and adherence to spreading misinformation is a sign of lack of intelligence, that really grinds your gears and compels you to speak up. You know, I'm not really buying that. What I'm buying is that you playing Dear Abby and chiding me on my lack of decorum is really just a transparent attempt to defend intellectual dishonesty because you are politically aligned with those knuckledraggers who are behind the misinformation.

I'm not trying to get people like Vanilla to support my argument because he has demonstrated that he's firmly is entrenched in his position. Now the question becomes do you support my argument because it's valid, or do you not support it because I'm condescending? IOW, what's your position on Vanilla's clam that Obama doubled the deficit?
Old     (tweeder)      Join Date: Aug 2015       03-07-2016, 10:55 AM Reply   
Bear with me, my communication skills via online forums are not the greatest. I for one do have an issue with the spread of misinformation. But what i have a bigger issue with is how people handle the correcting of misinformation. Your calculus comment was completely unnecessary and anyone who has gone through upper division math can see through the bull**** in that comment. It was a terrible attempt to make yourself look more intelligent than vanilla. What really grinds my gears is when I see people who clearly feel they are intelligent behave exactly like you did. I hold intelligent people to higher standards, there is no excuse to act like that if you know better. Nothing will ever progress politically in this country if individuals on both sides of the spectrum continue to behave like that.

You continue to prove my point as I have made zero comments on this forum to what I believe in politically but because I called you out for your piss poor behavior you make an assumption and lump me into the so called "knuckle draggers".

I'll get back to you in a little bit about the deficit question.
Old    mojo1127            03-07-2016, 11:17 AM Reply   
When the fed takes in 3 trillion in tax revenue, but still needs an extra trillion we have some problems. What moron thinks that taking state revenue, sending it to washington, then having states beg for some of it back is the way to do things?
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-07-2016, 11:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweeder View Post
Your calculus comment was completely unnecessary and anyone who has gone through upper division math can see through the bull**** in that comment. It was a terrible attempt to make yourself look more intelligent than vanilla. What really grinds my gears is when I see people who clearly feel they are intelligent behave exactly like you did. I hold intelligent people to higher standards, there is no excuse to act like that if you know better.
OH BTW, the equation for integrating is not a differential equation. It's called an integral. Yes, I know the calculus thing was more tongue in cheek than anything else. But it's frustrating to debate someone who keeps calling the sky green and the grass blue. Hold me to whatever standard you want, but acquiescing to misinformation and only speaking up about a lack of decorum doesn't impress me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tweeder View Post
You continue to prove my point as I have made zero comments on this forum to what I believe in politically but because I called you out for your piss poor behavior you make an assumption and lump me into the so called "knuckle draggers".
I'm calling you out on what you choose to defend and what you choose to ignore. That says a lot about a person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tweeder View Post
I'll get back to you in a little bit about the deficit question.
Really? You are schooling me and it's that hard for you to figure this out?
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-07-2016, 11:20 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo1127 View Post
When the fed takes in 3 trillion in tax revenue, but still needs an extra trillion we have some problems.
Agreed. So lets hear a little about your assessment of the problem.
Old    mojo1127            03-07-2016, 11:58 AM Reply   
The problem is that 4 trillion isn't enough for the people in Washington. Simply put we should cut $0.01 (1 penny) from every federal dollar. Balance the budget in 10 years. We should also have to pass budgets. We haven't had one for 7 years. You know what a government shutdown looks like? It's called Christmas. We should also be able to fire fed employees quicker than 274 days. Lots of fixes out there. Maybe Biden didn't need to spend 600k on hotel rooms in Mexico. Maybe Obama and Michelle could travel together. You know, the Washington version of ramen noodles.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-07-2016, 12:05 PM Reply   
Where do you get that 7 year figure? I think you need to define "balanced budget". Because my take on a balanced budget is that the deficit would be negative or zero. We haven't had that since the previous Democratic President. Seems a bit odd that you would say we had a balanced budget using a time frame that corresponds to nearly a tripling of the deficit to the highest level in history under the auspices of a Republican President.
Old    mojo1127            03-07-2016, 12:14 PM Reply   
Please read above and show me where I stated we had a balanced budget . I did not say that. I said we could balance it. here is your answer.http://www.onecentsolution.org.
-Last budget april 2009.

Last edited by mojo1127; 03-07-2016 at 12:18 PM.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-07-2016, 12:24 PM Reply   
No, you are right about Clinton and NAFTA. Also I reread your previous statement and agree that you didn't say we had a balanced budget 7 years ago. I actually don't think Bush is the cause of all our problems. Some of them yes. Like wasting thousands of soldiers lives and trillions of dollars in huge foreign policy blunders. But the point I'm making is that if you want to claim that our problems are the result of the current guy in the White House, then Bush is responsible for a lot of problems.

Yes, we do need to do something about deficit spending. But you have to recognize that no President can fix a problem that we fail to recognize. Hence me questioning you as to what you think our problems are. The mentality that the problem is simply too much spending and that all you need to do to fix things is balance the budget is dangerous. Electing someone to simply put the country on an austerity program will IMO backfire severely.

These threads are a real interesting look into human nature. You can call politicians corrupt, liars, and the media manipulative all day long. But if you call someone's favorite politician or media source a knuckledragger..... that's just crossing the line.
Old    mojo1127            03-07-2016, 12:28 PM Reply   
Cutting spending is at the heart of the answer. Look at bernie and hillary talking about free college and stuff. That is not free. And god forbid(uh oh i said god) you tell people it's only "free" if you get a degree in engineering, chemistry, medical doctor, etc. That would be the end of the world. We need more people with phd's in women's studies and trans african american slave history. You always hear about those jobs americans don't want to do. Guess what, americans will want to do those jobs if they cannot make a career from government subsidies. In some states you can make the equivalent of something near 40k without working a single day. This applies to any who game the system and are lazy. so Don't try calling me a racist.

Last edited by mojo1127; 03-07-2016 at 12:31 PM.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-07-2016, 12:29 PM Reply   
And yes, I do think that a balanced budget in 10 years is a plausible goal. But the problem I see is that we refuse to address issues that are preventing us from balancing the budget. Fixing anything isn't plausible until the issues causing the problem are addressed. We cannot continue to ship our economy overseas and expect to balance the budget. Until the annual lose of hundreds of billions from economy is addressed and stemmed we can't stop the govt from borrowing unless some innovative solutions are offered up.
Old    mojo1127            03-07-2016, 12:33 PM Reply   
The reason we ship our economy over seas is that we have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. Then add in union goons and arbitrary minimum wage hike people want and you get a pretty clear answer as to why things are going over seas. Don't forget NAFTA, EPA, IRS, obama care mandate, (thanks roberts)liberal policies tend to create a barrier to making a profit. that will cause businesses to close, or find ways to remain profitable.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-07-2016, 12:34 PM Reply   
Of course education and health care are not free, Continually harping on the "free" angle is not really productive. We all know that it's not free. However neither health care or education are really best handled in the free market. They are both fundamental needs that are important to the future of our nation. Unfortunately the pseudo free market approach to HC and education has accomplished little more that inflate costs in those areas much higher than the nominal rate of inflation. We can't have people sick and dying in the streets. And for the sake of the nation we can't have an uneducated population. Everything else can be free market because nothing else is so fundamentally necessary.
Old    mojo1127            03-07-2016, 12:36 PM Reply   
Actually the federalization of the education system and health care has done absolutely nothing but make things worse. You say healthcare and education are fundamental needs. No they are not. They are fundamental wants. My dad is a doctor and mom is a teacher. Should they be forced to heal your illness and teach you cursive just because you say so? Absolutely not.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-07-2016, 12:37 PM Reply   
The reason why we ship our economy overseas is not corp taxes. It's because we can employ impoverished labor in countries that have low standards across the board. We force American workers to compete on a level that we would not tolerate in this nation. Although I do agree that a lot of Republicans seem willing to turn America into the same s**thole countries that we send our economy to,
Old    mojo1127            03-07-2016, 12:38 PM Reply   
So do you have any nike products or apple products?
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-07-2016, 12:39 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo1127 View Post
Actually the federalization of the education system and health care has done absolutely nothing but make things worse. You say healthcare and education are fundamental needs. No they are not. They are fundamental wants.
My opinion that they are needs and your opinion that they are wants. Time to move on, we disagree.

Not exactly sure what you mean by the "federalization" of HC and education. We might be on the same page if you could explain this so I could understand.
Old    mojo1127            03-07-2016, 12:40 PM Reply   
Most of these third world countries you say republicans would like to make american are liberal havens of socialism and communism.
Old    mojo1127            03-07-2016, 12:41 PM Reply   
I mea the department of education, which has overseen the lowering of our educational system since its inception , medicare/medicaid,obamacare.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-07-2016, 12:42 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo1127 View Post
So do you have any nike products or apple products?
No, but if I'm reading between the lines correctly, I am not a hypocrite for buying foreign made products. I'm not going to use my bank account to "Save America". That isn't even possible. However, I am intellectually honest about the problem and am willing to pay more for things made in America when we are all doing it.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-07-2016, 12:43 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo1127 View Post
I mea the department of education, which has overseen the lowering of our educational system since its inception , medicare/medicaid,obamacare.
Yeah, well that's a fail. Hint, it's economic forces that are at play.
Old    mojo1127            03-07-2016, 12:46 PM Reply   
Ohh, so you'll do it when everyone else does it. Do you see the fault in that logic?
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-07-2016, 1:36 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo1127 View Post
Ohh, so you'll do it when everyone else does it. Do you see the fault in that logic?
only at the most superficial level.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       03-09-2016, 6:55 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweeder View Post
Yeah the equation used for that is a differential equation, but unless you are deriving it you do not need to know calculus but just be proficient in algebra. Business calc is a joke and gives you no real knowledge or understanding of the subject.

People will look at how you behave and pass judgement on your position based on their observations. You can get your point across with out the name calling, with out the demeaning attitude. You would be much more successful at getting the people to support your argument with out all that bs.
You are all over the place. Why are you turning this into an argument over mathematics? And if you are so distraught over John insulting a poster, why are you insulting people that have taken/will take "business calc"? It kind of makes you look like a hypocrite. I have a degree in Applied Mathematics and business calc is fine for people that don't plan on going into an STEM field. Why would knowing how to apply the Epsilon-Delta definition for limits of continuous functions or how to find the derivative/anti-derivative of trigonometric expressions be useful in the business world? Besides, in my opinion, you don't really get into the nitty-gritty of calculus until you take Real Analysis.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       03-09-2016, 6:59 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo1127 View Post
Most of these third world countries you say republicans would like to make american are liberal havens of socialism and communism.
This post is idiotic on so many levels, I don't see how you pushed the "Submit Reply" button with a serious face.

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