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Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-08-2015, 11:25 AM Reply   
She brings up some very interesting points in this Video. I found the part where she talks about the hypocrisy in the "if you see something say something" campaign, and when or if you do say something people are in Fear of being labeled "islamaphobe" or preaching hate speech, so they keep quiet!


http://video.foxnews.com/v/464860933...#sp=show-clips
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       12-13-2015, 6:46 AM Reply   
good grief. Her existence sounds really bleak. boogiemen everywhere! Apparently not much regard for the 4th amendment either. "get ready to give up some privacy." No thanks!

What is it exactly that the san bernadino shooters neighbors "saw but didn't report"? I'm a news junkie and haven't really heard anything about this.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       12-14-2015, 8:49 AM Reply   
The talking heads on Fox would sell their souls to the devil for money and popularity.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-14-2015, 10:10 AM Reply   
Hey speaking of Privacy. Extremist are using encrypted technology to recruit and plan attacks. Do you think people like Steve Jobs & other brilliant minds who made up this technology, How do you think they would feel about this and what do you think they would do about it. `
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       12-14-2015, 8:42 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
good grief. Her existence sounds really bleak. boogiemen everywhere! Apparently not much regard for the 4th amendment either. "get ready to give up some privacy." No thanks!

What is it exactly that the san bernadino shooters neighbors "saw but didn't report"? I'm a news junkie and haven't really heard anything about this.
Reports say neighbors saw them constantly loading bulky items and firearms in to their house. Say they saw different people in and out of the residence on a regular basis, but neighbors didn't report it because they didn't want to be labeled as racists or profilers.

There is a reason it's called profiling. It works enough said.
Old     (dyost)      Join Date: Jan 2007       12-14-2015, 10:37 PM Reply   
Much more of this to come, unfortunately.... and sadly this will be the new norm I'm afraid.
I don't think there is any way the USA is getting past Christmas or New Years without another incident.

Here's what's brewing close to my home....

http://www.abc17news.com/news/fbi-in...lmart/36877514
"Middle Eastern Men" made mass cell phone purchases at several Walmart in Missouri over a couple day period. Something like 200 phones purchased.

http://fox4kc.com/2015/12/10/dozens-...tro-locations/
Over the same period of time, lots of propane tanks stolen from CVS, gas stations, etc.... Over 30 propane tanks stolen

This is all very close to home as I live in the KC area.
It's sad, but I don't even want to be out in crowds around Christmas... won't take my kids to Crown Center, won't be out on the Plaza. Guess the terrorists are winning but I'd prefer to not take chances.

So it's easy to say "boogeyman everywhere" but there is some truth to Judge Jeanine's video. You can choose to take heed, take caution, and be prepared, or you can ignore all the signs and be a victim. I can tell you what I plan to do...
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       12-15-2015, 6:54 AM Reply   
I think more people need to be prepared. Call me another scared or paranoid American, but I'd rather be prepared and have the right and means to protect mine, then dismiss all of this as scare tactics and not be prepared. Years ago I build a survival kit for my family with a 4 month supply of food, drinking water, and other supplies, tools, and weapons for us to survive. I don't think I will ever need it, but it's comforting to know that it's there if we do.

Also, I have nothing to hide. I don't mind sacrificing some privacy for security if that's really what it's for. I also don't mind profiling for the sake of security. Easy for me to say as a white american, but I feel that putting aside political correctness for a while is worth security if it can really help.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       12-15-2015, 9:09 AM Reply   
That woman is totally full of BS. Anyone that wants a gun for protection already has the right to get one and will do so when they feel it's appropriate. They don't need some mad TV b*tch talking them into it with a bunch of bombastic rhetoric. That stupid sh*t she's blowing out about Obama not calling them "Islamic" terrorists is simply because it's not appropriate for someone in his position to be inciting the crazy f**ks into taking out their outrage on innocent muslims.

The people on Fox are smart enough to know that, but you can't profit off of making tools out of the fools that eat that sh*t up with reason. They know what they are doing and love every minute of it. When you see something like that in the media your natural reaction is to call them idiots. But some dumba$$ will come along and point out that they are a big success and educated. So yeah... calling them idiots isn't exactly accurate. It's really more accurate to say they speak to idiots. But it's a helluva lot more succient to call them an idiot, and avoid directly calling the person supporting their message one.

There are so many people that respond to stupidity. Like Trump calling for Muslims being banned from entering the country. The same dumb f**ks that think you can't ban guns because only criminals will have them somehow think that a terrorist can't help but saying he's Islamic when questioned about his religion. If you can ban people based on where they are coming from because you can verify that. But you can't ban them based on asking them to tell you their religion.

The bottom line is that attacks will occur and there is nothing that anyone can do in advance to 100% prevent that. How would it have even been actionable by the police if that guy had reported "bulky items" being brought into the house?
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       12-15-2015, 10:21 AM Reply   
"The same dumb f**ks that think you can't ban guns because only criminals will have them"

I take it you don't believe this? lol Can you share your perspective?
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       12-15-2015, 11:35 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyost View Post
Much more of this to come, unfortunately.... and sadly this will be the new norm I'm afraid.
I don't think there is any way the USA is getting past Christmas or New Years without another incident.

Here's what's brewing close to my home....

http://www.abc17news.com/news/fbi-in...lmart/36877514
"Middle Eastern Men" made mass cell phone purchases at several Walmart in Missouri over a couple day period. Something like 200 phones purchased.

http://fox4kc.com/2015/12/10/dozens-...tro-locations/
Over the same period of time, lots of propane tanks stolen from CVS, gas stations, etc.... Over 30 propane tanks stolen

This is all very close to home as I live in the KC area.
It's sad, but I don't even want to be out in crowds around Christmas... won't take my kids to Crown Center, won't be out on the Plaza. Guess the terrorists are winning but I'd prefer to not take chances.

So it's easy to say "boogeyman everywhere" but there is some truth to Judge Jeanine's video. You can choose to take heed, take caution, and be prepared, or you can ignore all the signs and be a victim. I can tell you what I plan to do...
That first article says nothing AT ALL about "Middle Eastern Men".

So the first thing to worry about when a US citizen and his pakistani wife shoot up said citizen's work party with legally acquired firearms is prepaid cellphones and propane? Even the fox link sounds the voice of reason.

AFAIK even the funding for the san bernadino attack came from good old fashioned american overborrowing, not some nefarious terrorist organization.

I mean if you want to be worried, the thing to worry about in a mass shooting appears to be, time after time, legally acquired firearms and legally acquired ammo.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-15-2015, 11:44 AM Reply   
Muslim extremists "legally acquired" airplane tickets when they flew airplanes on 9/11 it's time to stop trying to take away and remove all the things you think "Bad Guys" Will use against us and simply remove the "bad guys"
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       12-15-2015, 11:48 AM Reply   
Yeah. I think stronger background checks for guns and especially Visas would be a good thing.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       12-15-2015, 12:12 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
"The same dumb f**ks that think you can't ban guns because only criminals will have them"

I take it you don't believe this? lol Can you share your perspective?
No, I don't believe that guns can be banned. But you cut out the qualifier that they also seem to think you can tell someone's religion by asking them. Which was the whole point of them being dumb f**ks.

edit: reread it and can see how I wasn't clear on that.

Last edited by fly135; 12-15-2015 at 12:18 PM.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-15-2015, 12:20 PM Reply   
I mean come on How Stuipd are we. They are just NOW proposing legislation that would ban the sale of Guns to people on the "NO FLY" And the "Watch List"
So currently you could be a person of interest or someone that's a suspected terrorist but you can TODAY right now walk in and "legally Aquire" a gun!!!!!!

We wouldn't want to Profile or hurt anyone's feelings by telling them we can't discriminate
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       12-15-2015, 12:26 PM Reply   
Thought this was interesting.


“IF you listen to the cries of the Copts of Egypt, the Christians of Syria, Iraq, Sudan, Pakistan and all the other Muslim countries, you will hear the descriptions of the horrors of Islam. A n Egyptian woman under the pen name Magda Borham wrote a letter to Western countries, warning them of their immediate danger from Islamic invasion via “immigration.” And she has a brutal message for Americans. Having lived in Egypt for more than 30 years, she states: “Nobody else in the world knows Islam and the mentality of Muslims more than those who have suffered by having Islam as a part of their life. “If you listen to the cries of the Copts of Egypt, the Christians of Syria, Iraq, Sudan, Pakistan and all the other Muslim countries, you will hear the descriptions of the horrors of Islam. “See and feel the tears of the minorities in every Islamic society. These tears will tell you the true stories of Islam. Hear the blood of the ex-Muslims pounding. It’s their blood that is shouting out every single second, asking the rest of the world to ‘Wake up!'” She clarifies what few Americans understand: Islam is not a religion. Islam is a totalitarian political ideology that rejects the basic principles of freedom and liberty protected by the U.S. Constitution. In fact, Islam is the clearest and most present danger to America’s existence. She explains the suffering of minorities, including herself as a woman who has lived through Egypt’s transformation into an Islamic country. She writes: “Like so many others, I have been burned by this transformation. This transformation has seen me witness and experience Islam turn my home country to ruins and its followers are now threatening to bring the same fate to your own country. “Islam is a supremacist, racist political and social ideology wrapped in a thin peel of religious rituals. It seeks domination and supremacy over all other systems and religions. Islam is worse than Nazism and fascism systems combined without any doubt.” She warns Americans that they will suffer the same fate unless they end the senseless immigration policies that are enabling Muslims to freely invade with the intention of destroying America from within. She points to decades of failed liberal policies that have eroded American values, which she argues Muslims are using against Americans to their own detriment. Her message is brutal and straight forward: “Muslims use your own democratic laws and values against you, and they do it successfully while you keep sleeping as if as in a deep coma. This is why the leftists are the people who are worthy of the title ‘useful idiots.’ They are in a perpetual state of shame and self-loathing and will be the first victims of Islam once it takes over. “Muslims use them as a stick to beat you with, but even they will never ever be accepted as friends to the Muslims after, and they will definitely be their first victims. Leftists, liberals, progressives, Antifa, Code Pink and so on are all appeasers of Islam. Appeasing evil is cowardice. They are fooled people who feed crocodiles, hoping they will eat them last. They are the enemy within your countries. “Your country is like your house; you expect visitors who come to your house to respect you and respect your rules, not the opposite. Visitors must appreciate your kindness and your generosity for receiving them into your home and not imposing their own rules on you. This is your house, you own it, so you have the obligation to protect it and defend it. “If the visitor doesn’t like your rules, all he has to do is to leave. Nobody obliged him to visit you, and nobody will prevent him from leaving. As he came to your house by his own choice, he can leave your house freely or by force, if required.” And she notes that Islam is rooted in racism and bigotry. The labels Muslims use against non-Muslims (Islamaphobic, bigot, racist), she says, are actually a reflection of Islamic ideology. Islam is the only religion/ideology that specifically orders its followers to kill Jews and Christians, an obvious hate crime. “One final thing you must be aware of. Muslims are projectors of themselves. They accuse you of what they truly are. They accuse you of being racist, while they are themselves racist. Islam is all about racism. They accuse you to be a hater, while they themselves hate unconditionally. Islam is full of hatred incitement and violence. They accuse you of being a bigot, while Muslims act supremacism and are bigotry themselves. “Remember, Muslims love and need to portray themselvesalways as ‘victims.’ This is their greatest weapon against you in the west. Victimhood enables them to act violently and give them the pretext to attack non-Muslims around the world. It fuels them more and more with hate. “This hate generates more violence. Additionally to this victimhood allow them to silence you and stop you from resisting their agenda. This is why the easiest thing for them is to label those who criticize Islam or reveal its reality as ‘racist’ an ‘Islamophobe’ or ‘bigot.'” Her entire letter can be read at nocompulsion.com. Her message was originally written in Arabic, which was translated into English by Mr. John Hayward ( via charismanews.com ). Sadly, however, it seems that the West, and America, has not listened to her warning and will suffer the same fate she and other minorities have and continue to endure throughout the Islamic world READ MORE: http://www.disclose.tv/news/brutal_w...ped_out/125312
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-15-2015, 1:26 PM Reply   
Quote:
This is why the leftists are the people who are worthy of the title ‘useful idiots.’ They are in a perpetual state of shame and self-loathing and will be the first victims of Islam once it takes over. “Muslims use them as a stick to beat you with, but even they will never ever be accepted as friends to the Muslims after, and they will definitely be their first victims.
It's funny because I was reading the comments of posters on CBS.com One guy said almost the Exact same thing. But he said it in not such a PC way, Ill try to quote what he said below and leave out the racial slurs.

"The Libra-Tards & the Bleeding Hearts that are behind this Open door policy are going to be the first that suffer. Many Liberals & Blacks that live in the Major city's in the High Value target zones for these attacks. I don't see Terrorist targeting the local Tractor Supply store in my town"
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       12-15-2015, 1:38 PM Reply   
"A n Egyptian woman under the pen name Magda Borham wrote a letter to Western countries"

Believe that and I'll tell you another one. Dollars to donuts that's made up.

"They are in a perpetual state of shame and self-loathing..."

Typical right wing signature bulls**t there.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       12-15-2015, 3:01 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
Muslim extremists "legally acquired" airplane tickets when they flew airplanes on 9/11 it's time to stop trying to take away and remove all the things you think "Bad Guys" Will use against us and simply remove the "bad guys"
Somewhat agree. What I disagree with is that this is a Muslim problem. It's certainly a "bad guy" problem. These two happened to be Muslim. The next two could happen to be survivalists, polygamists, bummed out HS students, mentally unstable college students, earth firsters, or members of any other number of fringe, antisocial groups.

Here, the best we have (as far as I know) is that a husband and wife who "sympathized with" but were blown off by ISIS went and shot up hubby's work party after clearly prepping to do the deed.

This is not an "infiltration" by an enemy, it is us. Husband was a citizen. Born here, raised here. It's someone who got all pissed off, found a narrative that justified his actions (ISIS) and took insane, maniacal action. Not part of a cell, not part of some vast campaign, just an American guy who went the wrong way.

I know Lanza, Holmes (CO Theater), Cho (V-Tech), Rodger (UCSB), Mercer (Roseburg OR) all get completely blown off ... "oh they were just mentally ill... c'est la vie." But then a couple whose invisible sky man is named Mohammed kill a similar number of people and it's a freak out?

Common factor in all mass shootings? Shooting.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-15-2015, 3:07 PM Reply   
Fly why would you think it's made up?
We all know how women's rights are a priority in the religion of peace and how they champion for freedom of speech !

LOL LOL

It's get on the Crazy Train or get your Head chopped off. How long did they have the Standing Death Threat against Salman Rushdie. What was the name of his book< Humm let me think?????? O I know The Satanic Verses, All about The Religion of Peace LOL LOL LOL
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       12-15-2015, 4:17 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
Fly why would you think it's made up?
We all know how women's rights are a priority in the religion of peace and how they champion for freedom of speech !

LOL LOL

It's get on the Crazy Train or get your Head chopped off. How long did they have the Standing Death Threat against Salman Rushdie. What was the name of his book< Humm let me think?????? O I know The Satanic Verses, All about The Religion of Peace LOL LOL LOL
Have you read Rushdie, Grant? You don't strike me as someone who would be a fan. If you are, he penned a memoir called Joesph Anton that's pretty interesting.

But remember the fatwah on Rushdie came from Iran (Ayatolla himself). Iran and ISIS are not buddies. ISIS executes shias. Iran is not Sunni...Shoot, Al Qaeda and ISIS are like the crips and the bloods.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       12-15-2015, 5:18 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
Fly why would you think it's made up?
Because it was full of signature right wing bulls**t. Didn't sound at all like a woman from the ME at all. Progressives in general don't tolerate any religious bulls** of any kind. Liberals who vote for govt for handouts are probably not even debating the refugee issue.

I don't doubt that a woman in the ME who's not a Muslim would have some pretty harsh s**t to say about Islam. But she wouldn't be framing it as a liberal vs conservative issue unless she's been glued to Fox News.

Couple all the above with the fact that social media is flooded with fictional crap like that and it's a good bet that it exactly what it looks like.. fake.
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       12-15-2015, 5:23 PM Reply   
If Islamic Extremists are creating mass terror across the globe in the name of Mohamed, how can it not be an Islamic issue? If Christians where doing this across the globe in the name of Jesus, do you think the world would not want the Christians to get their house in order?
Old     (dyost)      Join Date: Jan 2007       12-15-2015, 9:45 PM Reply   
Jarrod had a great point before about profiling.

My great grandfather was a German immigrant from Russia in the early 1900s. My grandfather born in the USA 1919. There was huge anti-German sentiment during and in the years following WW1. I have heard family stories of my great grandfather having every couple weeks or so to go into town and "check-in" with local authorities as monitoring activities of foreign born in the USA was common at the time.

His son, my great Uncle, worked for Boeing. There were certain projects he could not work on due to certain security clearances he would not be granted, based on recent family immigration status.

Neither of them, nor many other immigrants at the time made a huge deal of it. They were happy to be in America. Great Grand-dad learned English, they worked hard, made something of themselves, and tried like hell to assimilate as soon as possible. I'm not saying immigrants in the early 1900s had it easy or that all just laid down and took a lot of *****...Germans, Italians, Irish, all had a pretty tough time, faced unjust social prejudice, and protested, demonstrated, acted out, fought, etc... What I am saying is they did what they had to do to make it in America and BECOME Americans i.e. ASSIMILATE. Maybe America had a good reason to be leery of German immigrants during WW1 and following USA's involvement. America certainly had reason to be leery of German immigrants leading up to and during WW2.

My point is... American immigrants of the past, while frustrated with social prejudice, mostly understood America might not be too keen on them coming, but was willing to offer them a better opportunity. So they complied with policies and did everything they could to assimilate because they knew the hardships of discrimination or "unfairness" would still be way better then where they came from. Many changed their names or changed their spelling so as not to sound German. Even today many Chinese will take an American sounding first name when they come here, I have worked and work today with some who do. You see any Muslims doing that?

And by the way, what was socially acceptable in how you treated and/or discriminated against immigrants was waaaay harsher then than what we have today. You think a German kid in 1942 shows up at his school in Texas with a homemade clock is getting invited to the White House?

Today's immigrants are not this way. From Mexico, South America or the Middle East. There is very little to no effort to assimilate, in a lot of places a flat out refusal to do so (language). Most come entitled thinking they have the same rights of citizens or even more so. Sadly our policies have encouraged this.

Anyone that says we shouldn't pay attention to Muslim activity in the USA is flat out denying reality. I am not a racist, I know not all Muslims are terrorists, I know there are many successful Muslims who have assimilated and function great in the USA. But I do think many, particularly the immigrants of the last 10-15 years, have lived is a society and system so different they are intent to stick to an ideology that is not consistent with American values and turn the USA into the desert hell hole they left, rather than become Americans.

A Muslim dressed for work like any other American, I probably wound't even notice them. Muslim rocking the full Islam gear and 8 syllable "al" "ab" "bar" in his name... I'm gonna be aware of this guy's comings and goings, and his girl in all black who will only show her eyes.

Last edited by dyost; 12-15-2015 at 9:51 PM.
Old     (dyost)      Join Date: Jan 2007       12-15-2015, 10:02 PM Reply   
Oh and by the way, for the gun control argument....

The Islamic Terrorists who perpetrated San Bernadino DID NOT ACQUIRE THEIR WEAPONS LEGALLY!

They were illegally given, transferred, or sold to them by their associate. As I understand California gun laws would not have allowed a private sale as the way their buddy got them these guns.

That alone is proof that more gun control laws would not have stopped this incident. Someone with more knowledge on CA gun law please chime in, but I'm assuming for a private sale in CA that you have to file some kind of paperwork with the state like my dealer has to fill out paperwork and log their sales here in MO should ATF ever come asking for it.

So let's assume for a minute these criminals decided to follow gun laws (which, oh wait, they never do....) AND let's assume we were doing our job being aware of radical Muslim activity. When the authorities would have started looking into this guy, they would have seen any firearm purchases made.

Sorry guys but it doesn't work that way. Criminals don't obtain guns legally. If guns were banned in the US they would just come in from Mexico.
Old     (dyost)      Join Date: Jan 2007       12-15-2015, 10:36 PM Reply   
"I don't see Terrorist targeting the local Tractor Supply store in my town"

The Missouri Walmarts where the Muslims made all the bulk cell phone buys were not exactly big cities... But I agree, if this and the rash of propane tank thefts amount to anything my guess is the target is a city. I'm thankful the Walmart employees alerted the authorities.

Apparently the cops showed up, asked the guys a few questions, asked for and ran their IDs, and let them go... no reason to detain them, it's not illegal to buy 60 cheap pre-paid cell phones at once and pay cash, just peculiar... Apparently their story is they were buying them to resell them for a small profit. Who the hell uses a cheap pre-paid cell phone anyway? I mean every time I'm in the grocery checkout line the gals paying with food stamps even have an iPhone. So is there really a market for reselling cheap prepaid cell phones? To the tune that you buy 100's at a time? I mean people consider a smartphone more important than using what money they do have for food, apparently. If there their story is legit... there would be no way you resell 100s of prepaid cell phones in Central MO, you can bet it's being done online, and hopefully the authorities are looking into whether they have some ebay or CL account that they are using to remarket these phones, now that they have been ID'd. I did also read that they produced a tax exempt card (which would suggest the phones were for business purpose), but the card turned out to be a fake. Could they at least be prosecuted on attempted tax fraud?

But again, the leading theory is that these are burner phones for a radical Muslim group, or worse yet, detonators for some device to be made with all the propane tanks stolen in the same weekend just over an hour away.

Last edited by dyost; 12-15-2015 at 10:42 PM.
Old     (dyost)      Join Date: Jan 2007       12-15-2015, 10:47 PM Reply   
Even if this turns out to be nothing, people have to stand up bring attention to this. I'm sure CAIR and Sharpton and every other liberal would love to tear apart these Walmart employees (they must be racist, intolerant, Missouri rednecks....) who called the cops, but these people could very well have saved 100's even 1000's of lives with their actions.

Profiling is not wrong in today's environment and we shouldn't let the PC crowd intimidate those with common sense and courage to act.

Last edited by dyost; 12-15-2015 at 10:49 PM.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       12-16-2015, 5:44 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyost View Post
Oh and by the way, for the gun control argument....

The Islamic Terrorists who perpetrated San Bernadino DID NOT ACQUIRE THEIR WEAPONS LEGALLY!

They were illegally given, transferred, or sold to them by their associate. As I understand California gun laws would not have allowed a private sale as the way their buddy got them these guns.

That alone is proof that more gun control laws would not have stopped this incident. Someone with more knowledge on CA gun law please chime in, but I'm assuming for a private sale in CA that you have to file some kind of paperwork with the state like my dealer has to fill out paperwork and log their sales here in MO should ATF ever come asking for it.

So let's assume for a minute these criminals decided to follow gun laws (which, oh wait, they never do....) AND let's assume we were doing our job being aware of radical Muslim activity. When the authorities would have started looking into this guy, they would have seen any firearm purchases made.

Sorry guys but it doesn't work that way. Criminals don't obtain guns legally. If guns were banned in the US they would just come in from Mexico.
Good point. Before I said that the neighbors observations probably wouldn't have been actionable if he complained to the authorities. However, in light of the information that there were gun laws in place that made their actions illegal, then perhaps the authorities would have had a basis for taking action.

Basically if people have a means to acquire weapons legally, then gun control laws give authorities an avenue for dealing with those who try to bypass the restrictions meant to keep weapons out of their hands.

If the matter was so simple as anyone who is a criminal isn't going to obey the law, then ask yourself why there should be laws. Of course the answer is obvious. We have laws so that we can capture and incarcerate criminals.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-16-2015, 8:58 AM Reply   
How stupid are We V.2
You don't have to be a legal citizen of the U.S. To buy a gun.
All one needs to do is get a "hunting License" you take the hunting license to any gun dealer here in Ca and you can legally buy a Rifle, you can't buy a hand gun but you can legally buy a AR!! How stupid and rediclous is this!!!!
Old     (dyost)      Join Date: Jan 2007       12-16-2015, 9:30 AM Reply   
Agreed. Constitutional rights apply only to citizens, which should include the 2nd amendment arguement.
You want to have a gun, all the more incentive to become a legal citizen.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       12-16-2015, 9:43 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyost View Post
Oh and by the way, for the gun control argument....

The Islamic Terrorists who perpetrated San Bernadino DID NOT ACQUIRE THEIR WEAPONS LEGALLY!

They were illegally given, transferred, or sold to them by their associate. As I understand California gun laws would not have allowed a private sale as the way their buddy got them these guns.

That alone is proof that more gun control laws would not have stopped this incident. Someone with more knowledge on CA gun law please chime in, but I'm assuming for a private sale in CA that you have to file some kind of paperwork with the state like my dealer has to fill out paperwork and log their sales here in MO should ATF ever come asking for it.

So let's assume for a minute these criminals decided to follow gun laws (which, oh wait, they never do....) AND let's assume we were doing our job being aware of radical Muslim activity. When the authorities would have started looking into this guy, they would have seen any firearm purchases made.

Sorry guys but it doesn't work that way. Criminals don't obtain guns legally. If guns were banned in the US they would just come in from Mexico.
Sorry should have said that the guns were acquired legally by a straw man. No evidence AFAIK that these guys had a vast network of contacts in the illegal gun black market.
Old     (dyost)      Join Date: Jan 2007       12-16-2015, 9:59 AM Reply   
You're right, the original purchaser did legally acquire.

Again though, if a person is detemined enough they will find a way to kill. These two had manufactured a ton of bombs that thankfully didn't go off. Remember that one in Oklahoma last September where the Muslim beheaded the 67 year old woman at work? He used a knive.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/27/us...rker.html?_r=0

You don't need guns to commit jihad or kill.

Mass restrictions on legal gun ownership will not reduce the incidence of terrorist or attempted terrorism either.

By the way in this case in Oklahoma, the company owner, who was a CCW permit holder, shot the murderer and stopped him before he could hurt anymore than the two victims he got. You cannot argue that taking guns from responsible, legal gun owning citizens would do anything to stop those with bad intentions.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       12-16-2015, 10:01 AM Reply   
and you can't argue that it's not a lot harder for H&W to kill 18 people with knives.
Old     (ifishok)      Join Date: Mar 2002       12-16-2015, 6:40 PM Reply   
We should pass a law to make jihad a hate crime.
Old     (dyost)      Join Date: Jan 2007       12-16-2015, 11:46 PM Reply   
Shawn,

Absolutely, easier to kill a lot with a gun than a knife. Even easier if someone made a bomb. If killer wanna use guns to kill, they will find a way to get them. I'm pretty sure France and most of Europe has some pretty tough gun laws, what would probably be considered extreme by US standards and probably even way more stringent than what Obama is calling "common sense gun legislation". Yet somehow ISIS got weapons into Paris they used in that attack. I'm sure they were not registered. What makes you think they couldn't and wouldn't do the same thing here, regardless of any laws on the books.

Here is a snapshot of France, assuming this wikipedia article is accurate:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overvi..._nation#France
Old     (dyost)      Join Date: Jan 2007       12-16-2015, 11:53 PM Reply   
You're also right, the San Bernadino terrorists probably weren't tied into a vast network of black-market arms dealers. But the guys in Paris definitely were.

What is so wrong with responsible citizens arming themselves, giving themselves, their family, and anyone those around them a better chance if they are in a position to act during some terrible scenario.

Did you know that to obtain a CCW permit, you cannot be a felon, you undergo a minimum 8hrs training and education (mostly about the laws relating to CC, when it is justified to use force and when it is not, and believe me, the scenarios of you are not justified far outweigh those where you are), you also must pass a firearm proficiency test.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       12-17-2015, 7:18 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
How stupid are We V.2
You don't have to be a legal citizen of the U.S. To buy a gun.
All one needs to do is get a "hunting License" you take the hunting license to any gun dealer here in Ca and you can legally buy a Rifle, you can't buy a hand gun but you can legally buy a AR!! How stupid and rediclous is this!!!!
I thought assault rifles were banned in CA? Is that not true?
Old     (westsidarider)      Join Date: Feb 2003       12-17-2015, 7:50 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by psudy View Post
I thought assault rifles were banned in CA? Is that not true?

We have certain restrictions to abide by. Semi automatic rifles like ARs and AKs can't have a removable magazine if they have features like a pistol grip and a collapsible stock. Magazines can only hold 10 rounds
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       12-17-2015, 11:35 AM Reply   
How the hell would you load them without removable mags? Single shot?
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       12-17-2015, 12:18 PM Reply   
Bullet button.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       12-17-2015, 12:19 PM Reply   
https://www.google.com/search?q=bull...G8HF8UaJP-0%3D
Old     (dyost)      Join Date: Jan 2007       12-17-2015, 7:47 PM Reply   
Bullet button... OMG that is so stupid. Exactly how is that intended to make the firearm any safer? So you can only use a 10 rd mag, and now to release it to replace with another loaded one, it takes what, an extra 2 seconds with those finger ring tools I saw a few clicks away from J-Rod's link?

CA legislative logic at its best...
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       12-18-2015, 8:32 AM Reply   
I'll tell you why it's really stupid.....because the laws for 10 round mags and bullet buttons are only respected by the good guys. Criminals can remove the button button, or use this http://ar-magmagnet.com/c-325311-mag...et-button.html and drive over the hill to Reno to by mags that hold 30-100 rounds. I'd say an AR to AR gun fight happens.....never......but it's still lame that the laws just put the good people at a disadvantage.

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