Cali banning surf or skim behind the boat?

I heard this crap from a wakeboarder(I know,I know)
Did some checking,and will continue to do so,but it seems the problem/beef is exhaust.
So I guess if you have a FAE,or sideswipe,etc,they will not bother you.

Anybody hear this?

Haven't herd it but I'm sure it's crap. What are they going to do... pull over everybody surfing and check what exhaust you have?

I talk to the sheriff ,Im friends with them up here at lake sonoma and he said that is the plan for there and alot of other lakes,

Damn,aren't there murders,rapists,child molesters,and other more dangerous criminals that they can worry about?Why does law enforcement and the government think they have to protect me from myself?If I want to poison myself riding behind my boat,why do they care?Not to mention that Cali.gov. is broke and they are wasting time and money on something like this.What a joke.Oh and I have FAE on my boat so I'm not to worried about getting poisoned.

I am pretty sure a sheriff can't make a law. Sheriffs only enforce law. To the best of my knowledge there is no law against wakesurfing. Some sheriffs think they can make laws by selective enforcement but the public can put and end to that. If your sheriff says it is against the law you need the code section so it can be challenged.

yeah its a law that is passed to the sheriff to enforce,I dont think you get what im saying ,The sheriff is a friend of mine, and he told me this year that they are suppose to enforce this,he doesnt what to, but thats what his told is happing this year,they are not banning wakesurfing.its all about the exhaust and how far away from the boat you are.I have a daughter and im getting sideswipe put on just for her and other kids because its not good for them .me I could care less.I happened to talk to my friend who runs my lake and thats what he says is happening ,no big deal.....Thats life...

How would someone feel if a kid passed out back there,then we would nt be wakesurfing at all..

James get these. They should help a ton and are much cheaper. They aren't as good as FAE but should be much better then what you have now. And they will work easily with your switchblade.

http://www.bakesonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=756

(Message edited by duffymahoney on February 19, 2010)

thanks ,buddy.

They fit the stock holes- exhaust. Basically they just bolt on with a little bit of work. Adding sideswipe seems like it would be very expensive!

@James. Could you ask the Sheriff you know what code section is being violated when wakesurfing? Last summer I went to Lake Powell and had heard they did not allow wakesurfing on Lake Powell. I did a bunch of research and could never find an answer. Went for the week and we wakesurfed for 15 hours. The lake patrol passed us twice while surfing and never looked twice. Utah has the best law if you are going to have a law. If you are within 20 feet of the back of the boat you must be standing. I am going to look at the Wake9 review again. I think after testing the biggest danger is to the person in the back corner of the boat (sorry Dennis). Any info would be a help.

the law i think would only be about people outside the boat

we were pulled over for having the kids sitting on top of the motor cover with their legs on the seats, contra costa ticket we were told was like $2500 and the san juaoquin ticket was $4600

i think this law would have so many holes in it as FISHERMAN who troll in boats, boats with inboards where the fisherman are actually behind the motors, seats alongside the engines like in I/Os, and outboard motors go around at alot slower speed then when wakesurfing

and i doubt that the law would ever prohibit fisherman from trolling

the fact that we were warned about doing somthing that almost every fishing boat does is absurd

Had an issue with the 90 year old sheriff that recently retired from Lake McClure. He pulled us over and told us that "Teaksurfing" was illegal. I said yes, I know that's not what we are doing. He replied something like call it what you want, if I catch you doing it again I'll ticket you. It was the end of the day a minute or so before sundown so he would have ticketed me either way so I didn't push it. Never had any issues since, I think that was one of his last weekends before retirement. Never had any issues with any other sheriffs. My experience is these part time weekend sheriffs that don't really know the laws and misinterpret them.

I may have been trolled by the kooks,but who knows.Its worth looking into to get all our ducks in a row.

Great point Frank.Hey man,we;re gonna probably go out next Saturday to Lake Sonoma(thats the next sign of clear weather),wanna rip at the endless break?

I don’t think that turn downs are going to help with CO levels; at least no one has studied the impact and published a formal report.

The CO level on the sun deck of you boats is higher than the CO level 10 feet behind the boat and 5 feet above the water line. If you’re pulling tricks like a coffin or shoot the duck then levels might be higher.

The Center for Disease Control (CDC) has published several technical reports on Boating and CO exposure. Among these reports are two reports that evaluate the effectiveness of FAE and Side Swipe. See the links:

Side Swipe: http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/surveyreports/pdfs/ectb-171-37a.pdf
FAE: http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/surveyreports/pdfs/ECTB-171-35a.pdf

These reports show that both CO mitigations generally reduce CO levels to a 10th of unmitigated levels. It’s also interesting to note that the reports indicate that neither CO mitigation is even necessary. I say generally because the effectiveness while not moving or moving really slowly is mixed. At speeds of 10 mph or greater the results are quite good.

From the Executive Summary of the FAE report: “The authors conclude that the CO concentrations measured 10 to 60 feet behind the boat appear to be relatively low with or without the FAE system. One particular area of concern relates to towed water sports activities where people could be near the back of the boat, operating at slow speeds. The FAE system could be beneficial in helping to reduce CO exposure to individuals involved in a variety of towed water sports activities.“

There’s a similar quote in the Side Swipe Executive Summary just replay FAE System with Side Swipe System and you have the same paragraph.

From the Side Swipe conclusion:
“The wake surfer’s CO exposures were reduced by 99% when wake surfing behind the Sideswipe exhaust boat on the starboard side and the exhaust on the port side when compared to wake surfing behind the transom exhaust boat. This reduction in CO exposure to the wake surfer was statistically significant (á< 0.05). The mean CO concentration for the wake surfer was 237 ppm exceeding the NIOSH REL ceiling limit of 200 ppm.”

“Mean CO concentration measured behind the boat show that at all speeds and distances from the boat the CO concentration decreases with height above the water surface. None of the mean CO concentrations measured at various distances from the boat exceeded the World Health Organization (WHO) guideline of 87 ppm for 15 minutes.”

If I thought that I was going to get pulled over for wakesurfing and CO was the issue I’d print these reports and keep a copy on board. Then make the sheriff read them.

Maybe I'll get off my butt and custom fab an FAE that fits around the switchblade. Basically two turned down exhausts with fae-type below the waterline outlets and some type of braces mounted to the switchblade mount.

I like Duffy's tips, but pricy for 2 just to start the fab process. I need to find a boat junk yard for those turned down tips.

Probably easier to get the FAE guys on the horn again and really whine about nothing to fit with blades. I wonder if the Bu wedge has issues too?

James: if you're also looking to contact FAE about a custom job, I can pre-pay if that'll get FAE moving. PM me if you're going that route over SS.

I have two buddies with the exact same year malibus. One has the turned down tips and one has stock exhaust. Just for reference I have an FAE. It is night and day comparing the two Malibus. I can barely hear the engine and I have never gotten sick from the CO. I would love to try a tester and really see the true levels. I have gotten sick plenty of times off CO in the past. Sitting on the sun deck while surfing etc.... I don't think it's as good as an FAE, but way way way better than not having one. I think it's a great option for anyone looking to lower CO levels. FAE is still the best option but boats with a switchblade or wedge can't use them so something like these would help.

i rode in a malibu and a master/c without any FAE on them and about got sick, was bad ., glad i have one on my moomba

I truly hope CA doesn't ban wakesurfing. I think that tougher regulations might happen sooner than later. CO fumes make me feel like I am a little sea sick.

I don't see any new law that affects boating and CO from a boat. I'm with Roger, I'd like to know the code section involved. Utah developed a CO brochure that effectively indicates wakesurfing is illegal without some mitigating device like FEA or SS. Colorado also adopted the use of that brochure. If you look at the inline picture for teak dragging you'll see the "20 foot" rule that's created.

http://www.boatingsidekicks.com/cobro/cobrochure.pdf

The California Brochure, however, doesn't have that same "20 foot" reference.

http://www.dbw.ca.gov/Pubs/CO/CObroch.pdf

Normally in CA there is a year of Don't do THIS! advertising by DBW (California being the land of Plaintiff Attorney's) and I don't remember seeing anything to that affect. Possibly just enforcing an existing statute? If anyone hears of a code or gets cited, I'd love to see that.

jeff what do you know or what do you think about the supposed ( ? ) law about people in the boat having to sit down inside the cockpit completely, it seems crazy that no one is allowed to sit up on the engine cover even if their feet are on the seats, the sheriff that stopped us on the county line in the water quoted us the fines for each county

Frank, from the Ohio Department of Natural Resources:

"Sitting, Standing, Walking on Moving Vessels Restricted
(ORC 1547.22)
No occupant of a vessel underway shall sit, stand, or walk on any area not designed for that movement except when immediately necessary for safe and reasonable navigation or operation. No person shall permit any occupant to violate this section. No person shall operate or permit operation of any vessel in violation of this section."

Probably the same elsewhere, like Cali.

As far as local authorities making up rules or laws, I read a lot of local law enforcement flexibility in this ODNR Law/Rule:
Reckless Operation
(ORC 1547.07)
No person shall operate a vessel, water skis or similar device:
„ carelessly or heedlessly;
„ without due caution;
„ in disregard of the rights or safety of any person, vessel, or property;
„ at a rate of speed or in a manner so as to endanger any person, vessel, or property.

OR...

Unsafe Condition & Termination
(ORC 1547.071)
A law enforcement officer may determine that an unsafe condition presents an especially hazardous condition to persons aboard a vessel and may direct the operator to take immediate, reasonable actions to correct the situation. This includes directing the operator to return a vessel to shore until the condition is corrected or has ended. Refusal by an operator to terminate operation after being ordered to do so is a violation of the Ohio Revised Code. An especially hazardous condition exists if a reasonably prudent person would believe that continued operation would create a hazard to persons aboard.
The following situations present unsafe conditions:
„ insufficient personal flotation devices;
„ insufficient fire extinguishers;
„ overloaded, insufficient freeboard for the water conditions in which the vessel is operating;
„ improper display of navigation lights;
„ fuel leaks, including fuel leaking from either the engine or fuel system;
„ accumulation of or an abnormal amount of fuel in the bilges
„ inadequate backfire flame control;
„ improper ventilation.

Well that gives ODNR the perfect reason to stop us in Ohio now.Overloaded,insufficient freeboard for the water conditions.If the officers in my area figure this one out I might as well sell my boat. I think that's a hard one to argue when your port or starboard rub rail is almost submerged.

Jay, I over loaded my old boat. The new one can generate a great wake without overloading.

james think duffy is referring to the exhaust I did to my boat with the blade.while surfing the surf side tip is submerged and limits co to the rider it also helps to reduce engine noise

@ Frank - like Ed indicated, we have similar laws in Cali - From the ABC of boating laws pamphlet:

Negligent operation includes:

1. Riding on the bow, gunwale, or transom of a vessel under way, propelled
by machinery, when such position is not protected by railing or other
reasonable deterrent to falling overboard or riding in a position or
manner which is obviously dangerous. These provisions shall not apply
to a vessel’s crew in the act of anchoring, mooring or making fast to a
dock or another vessel, or in the necessary management of a sail.

thanks .... i understand the law now .... he had used CO has the reason the kids could not be up on the cover

a long time ago in the late 70's on my ski boat the driver at the time which was a friend got a ticket for reckless driving and the girl who was waterskiing behind the boat was given a ticket for reckless waterskiing .... both tickets were eventually thrown out but the power of the LAW on the spot is obviously in the enforcers hands

Harold, What is that thing between your exhaust tips? I looks like you have a manual trim tab, with rams that stick straight out. How does that work?

Joe that is a switchblade mount just have the blade off it works similar to the wedge just had it off doing the underwater light install

Yeah Show but your new boat in Columbus does me no good up here in Cleveland.Congrats on that what did you get?

No new boat this year. Actually I was going to sell and not replace but the Centurion market is poor with all the repo boats out there. The '06 Enzo is the new boat, the '04 Lightning is the old boat. I think you’ve been on both. Sorry for the confusion.

And of course, as long as I have a boat your welcome to crew with me.

Thx,Oh lol I thought you were selling to get a new one. like wise on my boat anytime.

Gotcha. That thing is sweet!

I thought California had outlawed all exhaust. . . . .

More seriously, the CO output from boats varies widely. New Indmar California compliant engines supposedly put out 98% less CO than prior models. A little hard to see how a patrol officer could cite anyone for an usafe practice with exhaust, when they have no way whatsoever to measure exhaust levels with varying boats, varying conditions, etc. Bottom line is usually if they want to pull you over, they will. If they want to ticket you they will. If you are obnoxious, they almost certainly will. You may get the ticket overturned after considerable cost and effort, but have you really won at that point? Some patrol officers are into the power trip, but some of them are really just trying to keep it safe (wow, did I really type that?).

Banning wake surfing in general because of CO levels is stupid and worth fighting. But whether you get ticketed probably has more to do with whether your patrol officer got up on the wrong side of the bed than it does to do with whether you are really doing something unsafe.