Supra SE towing question

Bit of a loaded towing question for you guys.

So I just posted up as a new member. We have a 15 Supra SE450. 6,900 dry on trailer, assuming 8K when gassed up and gear on board. Current vehicle is a 2012 F150 5.0 with 3.73 gears. Towing situation is about 8 trips per year of 2 hours a piece no real inclines other than on the free way. Boat stays on dock at lake 2 hours away, but will take trips back for maintenance and a few times on local waterways.

I've made the trip twice with the boat now and here are my observations. 5.0 power wise gets the job done, moderate downshifting but not enough for me to feel as if it's being overworked. My main concern is the rear end. in constant traffic at 60-65 I felt a little white knuckle on the steering wheel. Rear end of the truck felt loose and a bit unnerving. Dropping some bags in would obviously help the rear end but with this kind of weight should I be considering stepping up the to 3/4 ton league? Always wanted a diesel but truck is essentially paid off and don't want another payment so I'd be in the market for a used diesel.

Sorry for long winded post. Thoughts?

Yeah, Air bag or just replacing the factory rear spring will help level your trailer and avoid some sort of bumpy ride.

Now you are pushing your tow truck limit in term of security. Yes, you are below the manufacturer limit, but do not think you will brake nicely in an emergency situation/maneuver. The choice is a personal choice, do you want to have security margins while trailing or not. The bigger your truck the higher your security margin.

Ramlin that builds trailer for G series and other big boats advices F250/350 for the G series. I am sure most of the G series are not pulled with F250/350 type of truck but that does not mean most of us do not take risk trailing.

Some will argue that with few trips a year you do not need a bigger truck, other will argue on the security point first. Your choice. if you like to tailgate and drive aggressively, you will be better off with a 3/4 truck. If you drive keeping huge distance between you and the car in front of you and checking multiple time before passing or doing maneuver, you will be fine with air bag or upgraded rear spring.

Thanks for the reply. That's how I've felt. I usually like to play it safe and leave a margin as well. Don't drive aggressive at all while towing. My quick calculation on gcvwr leaves me with about 1,400 pounds leftover. That's boat loaded down truck completely unloaded. definitely flirting with overweight when truck is loaded

Check your tire load rating, max weight on rear axle, your hitch ball and such, you might find something under rated sometime, take 10-15% for your tongue weight.

yea you're at the limit of what it can do. trans ever got hot? should be a trans temp sensor that will light up on dash if it did. You could put a bigger trans cooler on it to make sure you don't get it too hot. they don't like heat. constant shifting = heat. At the end of the day, the truck wasn't built to to 8000 lbs.

so what the tow rating on that truck? 9400? damn good for a half ton.

leaf sprung rear end? you can put overload springs on your current spring pack to help with weight distribution or air bags for coil sprung.

or stuff like that http://timbren.com/timbren-ses/

Nacho The trans has never overheated. I believe max tow is 9,3xx, like you said damn good for a half ton.

I've been looking in to a diesel for a while now. Always wanted one but first had to justify it. Since I'm a Ford guy and don't want to pick up a payment I've been looking in to going with a 6.0 and making sure I have money left over for future repairs and to bulletproof it. Scared of the 6.4 and would probably have to pick up a small payment on a 6.7

Timbren SES is interesting, just wondering if I drop the cash on air springs and onboard compressor if I will still end up at the end of the season worried about the weight. Which I'm thinking would be a yes since I prefer safe side

Yes SES will not change anything about your tow max, just make your ride less bumpy, will add nothing to security or almost nothing.

The "white knuckle feeling" could be with the heavy tongue load of the trailer you are over the hitch rating for the truck. Yes you are at the max towing capacity, but you could be over on max tongue weight. This could cause a few issues.......
1. Tires could be overloaded... I would make sure the tires were at Max cold pressure also (Tire pressure rating on the door most likely are not taking this load into account.)

2. The "sag" or load affect on the rear of the truck also has an affect on the front of the truck. It can affect camber and toe which can make the truck seam to wonder. (feel like you are standing on a beach ball)

3 The current shock absorbers may be worn and under this pressure they are way less effective and damping the load. Also the front might not work so well under "negative load" and the truck will bound.

Just my two cents.

Tongue weight is about 300 pounds according to my hitch with a scale. I have some sag but honestly not as much as I thought I would and the truck is leveled too.

I think I'm pretty set on getting a 3/4 ton just can't decide on which one

That tongue weight is way too low for your trailer weight. TW should be at least 10% of your trailer weight. Sounds like you are towing with your ball height way too high. Trailer should be horizontal. Need to lower your hitch to shift weight forward, stabilize your rig so that your trailer is not wagging your truck. If this seems totally off then your hitch scale is not working right.

I put the Timbren's on my 1/2 ton GMC and they worked great when loaded, but with no weight on the truck you could chip a tooth pretty easily in my experience. Very happy with my 3/4 ton now.

I have the timbren and do not have issue with no weight. I have about an inch clearance between the timbren and the base plate. Maybe you had the version for heavy duty towing. This version is way too much stiff for a normal 1/2 ton and some retailers have no idea there are 2 versions.

Thanks for all the replies guys. If I stick with my 1/2 ton I will definitely be going with the Timbrens. I'm currently searching for the right 3/4 ton at the moment.

Is it possible to move the boat forward on the trailer a few inches? Sounds like you should have between 700-800 lbs on hitch.

Not boat related but when i decide to do a solo trip with the sled and toss it on my 5x8 trailer it actually doesn't trailer as nice as when i'm towing the boat or the 3-place trailer due to lack of tongue weight and where the sled sits over the axle. She sways pretty bad on the utility trailer.... I think the same could be happening with your setup.

Boat is all the way forward on the trailer. I do have an adjustable drop hitch, which is set to have the trailer perfectly parallel with the ground. I will drop it a notch next time and see if that helps

To add tongue weight you need to raise the hitch, not lower it, on a trailer with more than one axle. You need much more than 300# on your hitch.
Where is your trailer spare? Can you move it forward? Can you move items stored in the boat forward? Can you move the axles back a bit?

After working for a Ford dealer for almost 17 years now, I would either keep the truck you have or accept the small payment and upgrade to the 6.7 over either of the other diesels mentioned. The 6.7 has proven to be very reliable, tons of power and decent mileage to boot.

Originally Posted by mlzelenik

Bit of a loaded towing question for you guys.



So I just posted up as a new member. We have a 15 Supra SE450. 6,900 dry on trailer, assuming 8K when gassed up and gear on board. Current vehicle is a 2012 F150 5.0 with 3.73 gears. Towing situation is about 8 trips per year of 2 hours a piece no real inclines other than on the free way. Boat stays on dock at lake 2 hours away, but will take trips back for maintenance and a few times on local waterways.



I've made the trip twice with the boat now and here are my observations. 5.0 power wise gets the job done, moderate downshifting but not enough for me to feel as if it's being overworked. My main concern is the rear end. in constant traffic at 60-65 I felt a little white knuckle on the steering wheel. Rear end of the truck felt loose and a bit unnerving. Dropping some bags in would obviously help the rear end but with this kind of weight should I be considering stepping up the to 3/4 ton league? Always wanted a diesel but truck is essentially paid off and don't want another payment so I'd be in the market for a used diesel.



Sorry for long winded post. Thoughts?

The truck is not heavy enough to comfortably handle the weight of the boat/ trailer. I had the same issue and upgraded 6 weeks ago to a f250 and now don't even k ow the boat Is Back there. Good thing is the Ford truck market is good for the-sale or trade. If your in the SE PM me I can point you in the right direction.
FYI the 6.2 gas burner in the f250 is perfect for what you want to do.

I wouldn't want 800 lbs on the hitch of a half ton.

Well looks like I'll be stepping up in to a F250. Found exactly what I was looking for after a month and I offered the guy. Now just have to find a time to fly up to PA to get it

I would just get a weight distributing hitch. Much cheaper than a new truck for the few times a year you tow it.

Originally Posted by rdlangston13

I would just get a weight distributing hitch. Much cheaper than a new truck for the few times a year you tow it.

check with your trailer manufacturer, often boat trailers are not compatible with WDH, especially if you have a folding tongue. At least Ramlin advises against. It will do more harm than good in case of an emergency maneuver, and all your questions are about this kind of maneuver. When everything is perfect smooth you can trail with your sedan .

Originally Posted by xxrb2010

check with your trailer manufacturer, often boat trailers are not compatible with WDH, especially if you have a folding tongue. At least Ramlin advises against. It will do more harm than good in case of an emergency maneuver, and all your questions are about this kind of maneuver. When everything is perfect smooth you can trail with your sedan .

They make weight distributing hitches that are compatible with surge breaks and they make pole tongue adapters but you are right about trailer manufacturer recommendations. IMO if they are going to be make boats with 800+lb tonque weight then the trailer company NEEDS to design the trailers with weight distributing hitches in mind. Pretty sure most all half ton trucks are only rated for like 600 lb tonque weight and 6,000 lb trailer weight w/o weight distribution. Also the trailer manufacturers MAY only be advising against it because the weight on the trailers can change drastically once the boat is offloaded. If you ran a weight distributing hitch on a boat trailer and did not relieve the tension before launch it COULD life the back tires of the tow vehicle off the ground.

Yeah much more 500 without WDH

Yeah much more 500 without WDH . However, even with G series the tongue weight is at max 450 (according to RamLin), so well below the 500 and thus you are somewhat compatible with the truck manufacturer recommandation that is based on a 10% tongue weight (10% of 5000 = 500). If when you tow, your truck is level and you have no swag, the WDH will not add much, IMO. Your hitch is still pulling the weight of the trailer. However, if the rear of the truck is way below the front, the WDH will add value. I guess, with correct rear spring, any modern 1/2 truck will seat level with a heavy wakeboat behind. David is right on the money, if the tongue weight on future wakeboats will reach above 500, the trailer manufacturer will make their trailer WDH compatible.

Thanks for all the advice guys. Truth be told I've been waiting for a reason to get a diesel. I've always wanted one but told myself I needed a semi decent excuse to do it.

I could see a G with a triple axle trailer having a 500 lb tongue weight but I don't think there is any way it is 500 lb on a tandem. I found a trailer tongue weight scale online but it sells for 130 bucks and I can't see myself spending that much on that.

Once you go diesel...you'll never go back! Ride quality goes downhill...but you'll never have that feeling of needing more (whether it's power, towing cap, or braking)!! Based on your comments, I agree with you. I would stay away from the 6.4 Powerstroke. And honestly the 6.0 is good, but has many secondary system probs too. The 6.7 is ideal but may be out of your price range. I would actually look at a 2007.5-2010 Duramax with the Allison tranny! Those were very reliable trucks! I personally am a Cummins fan (I currently have a lifted 2013 Ram 2500), but Dodge's transmissions need a little work, esp in the year models you would be looking in. But I think for your price point, The LMM Duramax Diesels are great trucks!

Oh....and speaking on tongue weight...your scale is DEFINITELY off! Realistically, you're looking at 700-900 lbs of tongue weight (all depending on the weight distribution inside the Supra and it's position over the tandem axles). The tongue weight on my G is about 1000-1100 lbs

Originally Posted by beg4wake

Once you go diesel...you'll never go back! Ride quality goes downhill...but you'll never have that feeling of needing more (whether it's power, towing cap, or braking)!! Based on your comments, I agree with you. I would stay away from the 6.4 Powerstroke. And honestly the 6.0 is good, but has many secondary system probs too. The 6.7 is ideal but may be out of your price range. I would actually look at a 2007.5-2010 Duramax with the Allison tranny! Those were very reliable trucks! I personally am a Cummins fan (I currently have a lifted 2013 Ram 2500), but Dodge's transmissions need a little work, esp in the year models you would be looking in. But I think for your price point, The LMM Duramax Diesels are great trucks!

Oh....and speaking on tongue weight...your scale is DEFINITELY off! Realistically, you're looking at 700-900 lbs of tongue weight (all depending on the weight distribution inside the Supra and it's position over the tandem axles). The tongue weight on my G is about 1000-1100 lbs

Man which kind of G do you have, a G27?

Using the right hitch to properly level out the trailer, the tongue weight on my 2016 SE 450 is about 600-650 lbs.

Well here's the new rig! I went all the way up to PA to get this thing. Matched everything I was looking for. Fully bulletproofed, dang near perfect inside and out with no rust underneath(only spent 2 years up north). I've already towed 2.5 hours with it and I am thrilled with the difference over the half ton. I truly couldn't tell it was back there now.

looking great and safe

Super nice rig.

Pretty funny you bought a boat and decided the half ton was not enough. I did the same exact thing! 2011 RAM 1500 was a nice driving truck but it was not designed to tow a heavy boat on the highway, lots of hills, and into 35mph headwinds. Upgraded to a Chevy 2500HD, haven't towed the boat yet though.