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View Poll Results: Should this be charged as a Hate Crime?
Yes 16 100.00%
No 0 0%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

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Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-05-2017, 1:22 PM Reply   
Should the Video of 4 Black Chicago youth's that bound and tortured a white kid & then streamd it LIVE for on Facebook. Should this be charged as a Hate crime?

https://youtu.be/Dm6otQscH50

Last edited by grant_west; 01-05-2017 at 1:27 PM.
Old     (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-05-2017, 1:27 PM Reply   
This has nothing to do with race.... Just like ISIS has nothing to do with Islam
Old     (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       01-05-2017, 3:36 PM Reply   
no question....everyday, and twice on Sundays
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       01-05-2017, 4:49 PM Reply   
It has been charged as a hate crime.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-05-2017, 5:43 PM Reply   
Yes. Although I don't agree with the label "Hate Crime". A crime is a crime, motivation is more or less irrelevant. Some things are more ****ed than others but the reason behind some human garbage doing this to another human is not in the least bit relevant to the justice they should receive.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       01-05-2017, 5:49 PM Reply   
He was being sarcastic.

Do hope these pieces of garbage have fun where they're headed.
Old     (ifishok)      Join Date: Mar 2002       01-05-2017, 6:22 PM Reply   
Chris Rock summed it up back in the mid 90s.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-05-2017, 6:23 PM Reply   
Wow They got charged with a Hate Crime! Wow I'm seriously surprised. Common sence has shown its ulgy face, hopefully common sence will continue. What did the Beast call these types of people "Deplorable's" No wait I got that wrong I'm the deplorable, These are "Super Predators"
Attached Images
 
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-05-2017, 6:45 PM Reply   
Where is Al Sharpton where is Jessi Jackson. You know if the shoe was on the other foot we would be seeing these community leaders. What about Obama and his "if he had a son" statement?
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-05-2017, 7:59 PM Reply   
Yes they are black. I would guess they are also:
Poor
Poorly educated
Poorly parented
Little to no life goals
No personal happiness.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not excusing them or mitigating their responsibility and yes, they horrible humans but why? Pointing out they are black doesn't begin explain who they are or what they have done, without understanding why changing things for the better is impossible.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-05-2017, 8:02 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo8290 View Post
This has nothing to do with race.... Just like ISIS has nothing to do with Islam
It makes me a bit sad to see this attitude.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       01-05-2017, 10:30 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
It makes me a bit sad to see this attitude.
Then you are part of the problem.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-05-2017, 11:13 PM Reply   
Sports players wanna take a Knee during the National Anthem to protest White police Vs the mistreatment of Blacks. Ok great . Ralph how do you suggest "people of the human race" (all color's) should protest against these types of people above? I agree with you 100% on your assessment of these people. The way I see it you call people like the ones above ghetto, and your labeld a racist. You can't get near the truth when it comes to addressing the Glorification of the Sex,Money,Drugs,Violance, gangster lifestyle. IMO these kids are products of the sess pool they are brought up in. It's amazing That as many normal kids come out of that region and lifestyle as they do, the odds are stacked against them from the start big time. But like what MarkJ and Stephen P is joking about is that you can't fix something unless your recognize its broke in the first place when you turn the tables on the victim and protect the wicked this is what we get. BTW 44 people have been shot in Chicago since Jan 1.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-06-2017, 5:30 AM Reply   
Wow this story is really suprising me President Obama to respond, calling it “despicable.” I think this is one of the very few things he has said that I can say I'm 100% behind. And bonus points for Obama saying it right away. To bad it took him 8 years to come out of the PC closet. Now only if Joe Biden could keep his pie hole shut for the next few days we would be in business. Just wondering what the past 8 years would have been like if Obama would have grew a pair from the beginning and went after his crime ridden home town of Chicago and other whack-a-Do towns like Oakland & Ferguson. IMO Obama could have had more impact on the inner city's then any president in history, but he seemed to avoid statements like he said above like the plague. We are going from a president who didn't say/do enough to one thats banging out Tweets at 3 am LOL.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-li...eo-despicable/
Old     (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-06-2017, 6:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
It makes me a bit sad to see this attitude.
Okay be sad
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       01-06-2017, 7:39 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
Ralph how do you suggest "people of the human race" (all color's) should protest against these types of people above?
Did you just move to this planet? They are criminals and should be sent to prison. There is no need to protest something that is already clearly illegal and can be handled with procedures already in place.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-06-2017, 8:09 AM Reply   
Fly: you think these people care very much about going to jail? You seem to be very out of touch ( or not from this planet) on many issues so it does not supprise me in the least you have no clue what motives people like this. You think Jail is punishment, for people that torture and kidnap and then Brag about it.
Old     (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       01-06-2017, 8:12 AM Reply   
couldn't agree more Grant
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-06-2017, 9:04 AM Reply   
Street Thugs & people like this are glorified. (Listen to any popular hip hop artist) what are they Rapping About ? Being brutal and ruthless are traits that are looked up to in these communities. Doing a stretch in Jail or Prision for them is like a normal person being sent to rehab (it's inconvenient but not a big deal) we are talking about Chicago so this is realvant. Chicago has some of the most strict gun laws , but Yett they have very high gun crime. Why? You would think with tough laws it would keep the guns out of the hands of criminals. Wrong. You see what these liberal idiots like fly don't realize is people like this operate under a different set of laws, they speak a different language, they have a completely different set of values.

You want gun Gun crime to stop we'll then get tough on gun crime and don't pussy foot around like we have. First build more "Human Storage" lots more or as fly would know them as "Jails." Pass laws that say "Use a gun in the commission of a crime Go to jail for life By By. Have a gun when your not supposed to By By. And so on. With in a year or 2 these types will get the message that Gun crime= By By. Most of these people doing crime like this are 3 and 4 times repeaters. WTF is that all about. 3 strikes you out LOL I say 1 strike your Gone. If your the type of people that shoves a gun in someone's face to rape, rob, you don't deserve a 2nd chance you have failed society and you need to be gone.

I say we make a state build and wall all the way around it. We put all the SJW's that support all these compassionate laws in this "utopia" You want open borders and no immagration laws Fine you live in SJWU (social justice warrior utopia) and of course you get to live with all these victimized people that society has been so bad to (people that deserve a 2nd and 3rd and 4th chance ) you can show them compassion and let them play wit your play dough and therapy dogs in your safe zones. I'm sure this Utpoia will be a glorious place. Think about it No one judging you. No rules or laws just complete harmony. And here is the real kicker You get to pay for it all!!!!! I'm sure this place would work out fabulous
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-06-2017, 10:01 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
Fly: you think these people care very much about going to jail? You seem to be very out of touch ( or not from this planet) on many issues so it does not supprise me in the least you have no clue what motives people like this. You think Jail is punishment, for people that torture and kidnap and then Brag about it.
Yes, I totally agree when crime like this happens the purps need to be separated from the general population, ie locked up. But that is just the start, the conditions which cause people to behave like this need to be analyzed so they can be eliminated.

When you look at the drivers of crime there are 3 factors:
Genetic
Enviromental
Situational.

It seems society takes the simple view that it is solely genetic which can't be changed and therefore the solution is just to lock them up and move on. You can call that racist but i just see it as wrong. There is so much more which can be done to improve the system we have and live together peacefully.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       01-06-2017, 10:12 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
Fly: you think these people care very much about going to jail? You seem to be very out of touch
I'm definitely out of touch with your point. If sending these people to prison doesn't fit your definition of a suitable solution, please go on. Apparently Cliff is in your camp, so he can tell us more too.
Old     (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       01-06-2017, 12:16 PM Reply   
Not entirely John.
Grant, you kind of lost me with your last post. I understand the anger, but extreme points from both sides, is why nothing gets done.

I'm glad that this is labeled a hate crime. They need to prosecuted to the fullest extent.
Old     (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       01-06-2017, 12:17 PM Reply   
BTW, I was agreeing with Grants post that begins with....wow this story
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-06-2017, 12:25 PM Reply   
Darren hit the nail right on the head. Locking someone up and throwing away the key is a instant solution. But it's not a long-term solution. And it's certainly not sustainable. And I'm sure it's not economically reasonable.
We have Democrats screaming that the justice system is geared towards locking up blacks. And how unfair it is. Yet we are unable to address and tackle very things that Darin pointed out.
These kids are bringing brought up in a culture that has no family values at all. I can almost guarantee that all four of the perpetrators above don't come from a traditional family where mom and dad live as husband and wife. Women having children from multiple different fathers. Kids growing up not even knowing who their dad is. Like Tupac said "expecting a rose to grow from between the cracks in the cement in the ghetto" is never gonna happen
Old     (stanfield)      Join Date: Mar 2004       01-06-2017, 12:42 PM Reply   
There's plenty of good ole, god fearing, Trump supportin' fools out there assaulting gays on the regular. Hate is hate and crime is crime, it has absolutely zero to do with left / right, liberal / conservative.
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       01-06-2017, 1:16 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo8290 View Post
This has nothing to do with race.... Just like ISIS has nothing to do with Islam
Just like the KKK has nothing to do with Christianity
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       01-06-2017, 1:28 PM Reply   
This is a hate crime beyond words. It's even more serious than a hate crime to be exact. Read the linked article for the details on why I believe that as well. However it will not leave the state level. This is precisely a federal level hate crime not just a local level one......you don't see the don or the Feds stepping up and speaking out do you ? Where is all the coverage calling for these monsters heads to roll ? You can bet if the colors were reversed we'd never hear the end.

Sure Obama called it dispicable, But did you watch his entire interviews with the news. He followed that statement up with the same rhetoric that blacks have been experiencing this their entire lives. Made excuse for the 4 savages that did this and blamed it on years of oppression . Same bull crap narrative he spewed his entire 8 yrs in office. He single handedly has brought more discord in our country in his tenure than every president before him combined.

What's even truly worse is the Chicago Police brass and top echelon of bosses are spewing the same bull crap narrative trying to downplay this entire situation as "young adults making Poor choices ". "Kids saying words they don't truly know meaning of". Our detective Commander Duffin, and The Supeeeintendent of Polive giving Interviews about a handicapped white kid who was jidnapped and tortured for 24hrs by 4 blacks 18-23 . They Facebook live'd the entire thing and are now in custody. Making the kid say he loves blacks , yelling we hate trump , white people must pay, burning, beating, and cutting the handicapped KIDNAPPED victim. Rather then calling these pieces of garbage what they are and calling for the federal hate crime charges to be sought (let alone the felonies involved in it just being a mentallly handicapped individual" both stand up at the conference and refer to the offenders as kids. Make excuses They "didn't understand their words". Etc etc. This is the two of the highest ranking police brass talking.

Police are investigating whether the attack was a hate crime, though they have not yet said that it is one. Commander Kevin Duffin told reporters that it may have been people "ranting about something they think might make a headline."

When asked if the attack was politically motivated, Johnson said "at this point we don't have anything concrete to point in that direction."

Chicago Police Department Commander Kevin Duffin said, “Kids make stupid decisions — I shouldn’t call them kids, they’re legally adults. But they’re young adults and they make stupid decisions.”



Really???? Those are just a few quotes from the press conferences from those whose lead the city with over 4300 shootings and 795 homicides respectively 83% black on black , and 77 percent black on black. But the white police are the racist devils. Appalling by the left politicos to still tote the line and blame others to say the least. Here is a great article by the blaze. Again this crime is being downplayed at every angle .

http://www.theblaze.com/contribution...as-much-worse/
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       01-06-2017, 1:32 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
Did you just move to this planet? They are criminals and should be sent to prison. There is no need to protest something that is already clearly illegal and can be handled with procedures already in place.
No they should be put to death end of story
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-06-2017, 1:34 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
Then you are part of the problem.
We are all part of the problem, just not everyone is smart enough to recognise it. If the problem gets bad enough the system will collapse and the have nots will go to war with the haves.
Old     (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-06-2017, 1:34 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhorn View Post
Just like the KKK has nothing to do with Christianity

Not a bad assumption. Only problem is that the KKK is disobeying what the bible says while ISIS is obeying what the Qur'an says. This is all up to interpretation of course.
Old     (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-06-2017, 1:36 PM Reply   
Can you feel the love on wakeworld lately?
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       01-06-2017, 1:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Yes, I totally agree when crime like this happens the purps need to be separated from the general population, ie locked up. But that is just the start, the conditions which cause people to behave like this need to be analyzed so they can be eliminated.

When you look at the drivers of crime there are 3 factors:
Genetic
Enviromental
Situational.

It seems society takes the simple view that it is solely genetic which can't be changed and therefore the solution is just to lock them up and move on. You can call that racist but i just see it as wrong. There is so much more which can be done to improve the system we have and live together peacefully.

You know what feeds come and lawlessness. Democratic policy's and generations of sucking on the governments *** with no accountability for being unproductive
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-06-2017, 1:49 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
Really???? Those are just a few quotes from the press conferences from those whose lead the city with over 4300 shootings and 795 homicides respectively 83% black on black , and 77 percent black on black. But the white police are the racist devils. Appalling by the left politicos to still tote the line and blame others to say the least.
I used to think exactly like this, they are scum, they are all the same, there is something wrong with them, lock them all up. As i have got older i have become less confident i am any different from these people. If you brought me up the same way, put me in there position would i behave any differently? I can't say 100% I would. Life has driven that arrogance from me and i am a little more humble now. Once you lose that bravado it becomes easier to excersize some compassion.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-06-2017, 1:50 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
You know what feeds come and lawlessness. Democratic policy's and generations of sucking on the governments *** with no accountability for being unproductive
I agree, the entire system is broken, it doesn't matter which side you are on
Old     (stanfield)      Join Date: Mar 2004       01-06-2017, 4:34 PM Reply   
What are you guys arguing about? Deplorable crimes committed by deplorable individuals. Looks like swift action is being taken and they will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. What else can be done at this point in this case? Hate and blame it on somebody who doesn't vote the way you do? LOL
Old     (bcd)      Join Date: Jun 2012       01-06-2017, 5:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Yes, I totally agree when crime like this happens the purps need to be separated from the general population, ie locked up. But that is just the start, the conditions which cause people to behave like this need to be analyzed so they can be eliminated.

When you look at the drivers of crime there are 3 factors:
Genetic
Enviromental
Situational.

It seems society takes the simple view that it is solely genetic which can't be changed and therefore the solution is just to lock them up and move on. You can call that racist but i just see it as wrong. There is so much more which can be done to improve the system we have and live together peacefully.
I think it is a very small minority of society that would say it is genetic, but the media tries to skew reality and pass it off as a lot more than that.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-06-2017, 6:13 PM Reply   
Quote:
stanfield: "it has absolutely zero to do with left / right, liberal / conservative".
Well my friend in this particular case it does. When they are saying Fu*k TRUMP & Fu*k White People, I think that pretty much throws a wrench in your argument.
Old     (stanfield)      Join Date: Mar 2004       01-06-2017, 7:39 PM Reply   
You're right, this deplorable act was clearly politically motivated put forth by the left.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       01-06-2017, 7:45 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanfield View Post
What are you guys arguing about? Deplorable crimes committed by deplorable individuals. Looks like swift action is being taken and they will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. What else can be done at this point in this case? Hate and blame it on somebody who doesn't vote the way you do? LOL
That's where you are wrong. It's not being prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Its being prosecuted at a much lower level than it should . Anyone familiar with the Cook County , Chicago , Illinois court system can vouch for that. This is a text book federal case that will ultimately be plead out at the lowest court possible. A court that has consistently handed out the weakest sentences of any circuit court in the country. No I am not just making that up. The lack or sentencing and prosecutions by Cook County courts have been written about and beaten to death plenty of places. This belongs at the federal level where truth in sentencing is still upheld. Not in Cook County where truth in senticening is on average 30-40% of the actual time given
Old     (stanfield)      Join Date: Mar 2004       01-06-2017, 8:38 PM Reply   
Thread started, hate crime or not? Just a couple hours later, charges upgraded to hate. Everyone seems to agree unanimously, but now that's not good enough. Ok I'm on board, they should be charged on the federal level. Are we happy then? Should we try them in World Court? My point being that this early in the process, everything seems to point to that justice will be served. Would we all like to just skin them alive with no due process? Probably, but that isn't our process.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-06-2017, 10:47 PM Reply   
Stanfield: let's think about this for a second. No one has protested. No one has blocked a freeway. No one has shot a cop, No one has looted or Rioted, in the name of this case.

Please Answer honestly. Do you think if the Victim was Black and the Perps were white we would have peace right now?


And what's wrong with discussion here on this thread. You seem un nerved that people are asking for more or trying to push the charger's higher up the ladder.
I see nothing wrong with people expressing their ideas and thoughts here in a peaceful manner. You seem upset that people are asking for heads to roll.
Old     (stanfield)      Join Date: Mar 2004       01-07-2017, 3:28 AM Reply   
I agree wholeheartedly that if the races were flipped that there would be pandemonium in the streets right now. I guess I just don't understand what there is to be upset about with how this situation is being handled after they were taken into custody. It's very early and it all seems to be going in the right direction. Some of the posts above make it sound like a foregone conclusion that these dirtbags are getting off with a slap on the wrist and probation. A lot of our systems are broken right now, but it's the system we have and the only one that the authorities have to work under. Want to fix it? Stop trying to blame your neighbor for it and let's all try working together instead.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       01-07-2017, 7:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
for them is like a normal person being sent to rehab (it's inconvenient but not a big deal)
I guess what's "normal," is all relative then G, cuz in my circles getting sent to rehab would be a very big deal.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-07-2017, 8:00 AM Reply   
Shawn: the point I was trying to make. Between the 2
Rehab I would think for most of us here would be a walk in the park. Prision for most of us here would be a living Hell.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-07-2017, 10:16 AM Reply   
Stanfield: thanks for acknowledging reality. That blacks would be tearing $hit up if the shoe was on the other foot. The frustration comes from the communities inability to recognize reality and in my opinion Shift Blame! That community is doomed unless THEY change unless THEY choose another path. THEY have to realize and be willing to talk about it, subjects like having multiple kids by multiple fathers being raised by uneducated parents in a community that's violent, and accepts low standards, these types of crimes will always continue. Folks like myself will avoid and make other choices because why take a risk? Plenty of other fish in the sea when it comes to employment and where to spend my dollars/energy. Come to the table, act like normal citizen of the USA, talk like a American. Pull your pants up. No I don't think a Tattoo across your face will work for me and my customers. Recognize these realitys and educate "the community". If these simple facts can become common knowledge I think we can make huge strides towards mending fences and bridging the gap.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       01-07-2017, 11:00 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanfield View Post
I agree wholeheartedly that if the races were flipped that there would be pandemonium in the streets right now.
I don't wholeheartedly agree. Protests usually occur when the perpetrators of the alleged crime are let off. This predominately happens when cops are involved. Or for example the Zimmerman/Martin case.

Has anyone been following the protests that occurred as a result of the Dylann Roof case? It's white on black crime, but I haven't seen any protests in the news. So there is your evidence.... the tables were turned and there was zero pandemonium.

Hate crime is a totally misguided concept. You should have a category for "terrorizing". I.E. making someone fear that there life is in danger and something could happen when they least expect it. And a category for torture. I.E. kidnapping and terrorizing with physical abuse. But hate crime is just stupid.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-07-2017, 11:27 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
Hate crime is a totally misguided concept. You should have a category for "terrorizing". I.E. making someone fear that there life is in danger and something could happen when they least expect it. And a category for torture. I.E. kidnapping and terrorizing with physical abuse. But hate crime is just stupid.
Agree 100%. "Hate crime" is about as sensible as "war on terror" or "weapons of mass destruction", retail packaging of complex issues so the herd can be outraged and easily controlled. It's all bs, we are being manipulated.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-07-2017, 11:39 AM Reply   
Fly: In this case of Dylan Roof, your correct. But let's digress as you like to do. Just like in a game of poker. I see your Dylan's Roof case & I Raise you Michale Brown. (the gentle giant) riots started that night, as well as the false narrative "hands up don't shoot" the BLM's war cry.

Did you see the video of the 3 Black people that hauled a old man out of his car and took turns beating him because he had a TURMP sticker on his car. This was right after the election. And as long as we are going Backwards as you liberal cry baby's like to do let's go back to the LA riots. Remember a guy Reginal Denny. He happend to be unlucky enough to be White in a black hood during the LA riots. He was the recipient of a brick across the head and a fire extinguisher across the face after he was pulled from his cement truck in LA right after the Rodney king verdict. Rodney King (Another Great Champion of the Human Race). All caught on live TV. No hate crime charges against these POS individuals and No protest for whites not a peep.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-07-2017, 11:50 AM Reply   
G, why do you always set these events up identifying the players as either black or white?
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-07-2017, 1:47 PM Reply   
Darren: no disrespect to you, but you live in a part of the world where you don't have real time experience in these matters. That Dosent mean your opinion Dosent count but, The worst parts of New Zeland are a utopia Vs the places we are talking about. When you live and work in around these places and have real time experience then post "Why the Black Vs White" In these places IT IS Black Vs White. I did not make these conditions I only recognize them and work around them. I would love to live in a world in that you don't have to watch your 6 or lock your doors but unfortunately that's not the world we live in.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-07-2017, 2:04 PM Reply   
Dear Snowflakes the kind of savagery this kid faced is nothing new. For those of you that "Forgot" let's got back to 1992. Enjoy


https://youtu.be/UymAKaUquzs
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       01-07-2017, 2:11 PM Reply   
Grant, I already addressed everything that you posted when I said this....

"Protests usually occur when the perpetrators of the alleged crime are let off. This predominately happens when cops are involved. Or for example the Zimmerman/Martin case."

You don't see protests targeted at bank robbers, home invaders, drug dealers, etc... because these acts are against the law and the idea of protesting these criminals makes no sense. You see protests when people, who generally have some kind of power, commit what is apparently a crime and are able to get off from being prosecuted.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-07-2017, 2:25 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
Darren: no disrespect to you, but you live in a part of the world where you don't have real time experience in these matters. That Dosent mean your opinion Dosent count but, The worst parts of New Zeland are a utopia Vs the places we are talking about. When you live and work in around these places and have real time experience then post "Why the Black Vs White" In these places IT IS Black Vs White. I did not make these conditions I only recognize them and work around them. I would love to live in a world in that you don't have to watch your 6 or lock your doors but unfortunately that's not the world we live in.
Don't worry G, I'm not offended by anything you say. Yes it's true, i don't have the experiences you guys do and things are different here, so are our attitudes about people. Maybe those two things are linked. The only point i would make is, is it really Black vs White or is it Rich vs Poor, haves vs have nots. It's easy to see it as a color issue because on average blacks has less than whites and it is always headlined as black man does this in the media rather than poor man with terrible parents and zero chance in life does this so immediately all you see is he is black which is not the real driver to his behavior. We are never going to cure his blackness but we can help with his education and social skills.

Why does the media do this? People are not equipped to deal with complexity and uncertainty, they like things simple. Black bad, white good makes everybody happier. Its way easier to discount the terrible things somebody does to something they have no control over ie their color, rather than see there is alot of reasons some of which we can influence. Nobody wants that responsibility.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       01-07-2017, 2:37 PM Reply   
For those of you who (a) don't like hate crime legislation or (b) mock the concept of a hate crime or (c) just don't understand what hate crime means, a little reading:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/92-515.ZO.html

(please note opinion was authored by Rehnquist, who delivered the opinion of the unanimous court (which included Scalia and Thomas))

And for the record, there's no question based on what I've seen that the conduct in question here is racially motivated (and thus subject to hate crime enhancement).
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       01-07-2017, 3:06 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
For those of you who (a) don't like hate crime legislation or (b) mock the concept of a hate crime or (c) just don't understand what hate crime means, a little reading:
Can you narrow all that down to the section that's supposed to make us think that having a hate crime law is beneficial? All I really got was an explanation as to how it doesn't infringe on the 1st amendment.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-07-2017, 3:31 PM Reply   
Darren: I get where your going. Rich Vs Poor Have's Vs Have Nots. You have a point. I have been to some pretty white trash hillbilly low income towns here in California, and not sure of the numbers as far as Crime & Violence go's compaired to Black hood's but I can tell you with utmost certainty what Hood you could walk threw with a better chance of comming out of, without a few more ventilation holes!
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-07-2017, 4:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
For those of you who (a) don't like hate crime legislation or (b) mock the concept of a hate crime or (c) just don't understand what hate crime means, a little reading:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/92-515.ZO.html

(please note opinion was authored by Rehnquist, who delivered the opinion of the unanimous court (which included Scalia and Thomas))

And for the record, there's no question based on what I've seen that the conduct in question here is racially motivated (and thus subject to hate crime enhancement).
Ok, put me in cat A.

TBH I don't know if kicking the crap out of someone they hate or someone completely random is any better or worse. But at the end of the day the motivation to do something horrid only really matters to me in terms of the likelyhood they will reoffend when released and hence the length of sentence. I don't think sending someone to jail is likely to make them any less racist/hateful.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       01-07-2017, 5:52 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Ok, put me in cat A.

TBH I don't know if kicking the crap out of someone they hate or someone completely random is any better or worse. But at the end of the day the motivation to do something horrid only really matters to me in terms of the likelyhood they will reoffend when released and hence the length of sentence. I don't think sending someone to jail is likely to make them any less racist/hateful.
Are you against sentencing enhancements generally, or just protected-class (race/gender) based enhancements? What about crimes against the elderly or children? Or in this case (apparently) crime against a mentally disabled person?

I mean I feel like we'd all agree that someone who rapes a child deserves more punishment than your "regular" rapist.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-07-2017, 7:54 PM Reply   
No just protected class. I think the sentencing judge should have the ability to up size the sentence to match the severity of the crime and the vulnerability of the victim for all crime.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       01-07-2017, 9:00 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
Grant, I already addressed everything that you posted when I said this....

"Protests usually occur when the perpetrators of the alleged crime are let off. This predominately happens when cops are involved. Or for example the Zimmerman/Martin case."




You don't see protests targeted at bank robbers, home invaders, drug dealers, etc... because these acts are against the law and the idea of protesting these criminals makes no sense. You see protests when people, who generally have some kind of power, commit what is apparently a crime and are able to get off from being prosecuted.
A) can you give me 3 examples of "protests that usually occur when the perpetrators of an alleged crime are let off .........." that fall under this umbrella once all the facts and evidence were exposed in which the riots looting and "protests " were legitimate ?

B) can you give me 3 examples that fit this following quote? "You see protests when people, who generally have some kind of power, commit what is apparently a crime and are able to get off from being prosecuted"

Apparently you don't live in the real world. Riots , looting , protests happen in these communities when they don't get what they want. It has nothing to do with actual right and wrong. They aren't "protests". Can you point me to one BLM poster boy who wasn't committtng a felony while he was shot or killed by police that led to riots and looting ? The way your post reads it's should be a justifiable excuse for people to act that way. Unfortunately the facts don't lie and in every single case so far that went to trial involving every high profile BLM poster boy the officers have been cleared of any wrong doing in the courts once all the facts came out. Much like the evidence in the case that proved Trayvon was the major aggressor . Your examples and your language are truly flawed and you have bought in to the false narrative that police and the white community are at war with the poor black community. The simple statement you made using the words"let off". Not one them were "let off" . A fair and impartial trial was had in which the evidence presented itself and all the evidence pointed to the fact there was nothing criminal involved with from those individuals railroaded by the media and activists alike, including the railroad job by the terrorist that was seated in the white house. Feel free to point out 3 cases in the past 8 yrs that were front and center in the headlines of racial bias that either the white police were involved in that resulted in convictions once "THE ACTUAL FACTS" were presented. This even goes way back to the Caimbrodge officers accused by Obama of mistreating a black wealthy individual in which Obama vonducted his beer summit. The facts came out and proved the man of color in this instance was the one in the wrong. Again another false accusation pushed forward in the headlines by the white house and the bs DOJ that turned out to be made up.

The only war in these communities is the internal one of them killing each other and that being acceptable . No responsibility and accountability at all for them No harsh sentencing , and exery excuse in the book used by uneducated individuals that it's somehow the fault of others and those successful in America that attribute to the fact these individuals are poor have no respect for life. the fa tbof the matter this false narrative generates money for their so called "community activists" to line their pockets with all the cash thrown and dumped into these communities. Without the false narrative and made up bs spewed all over the tv of successful guilt they would have no way of increasing the cash flow into the activists pockets and the community to get votes. End of story

Last edited by xstarrider; 01-07-2017 at 9:05 PM.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       01-08-2017, 9:35 AM Reply   
Sorry to get you upset swatguy, but I intended to convey none of those things you are concerned about. I should have put "perceived as let off" to more accurately state my point. I'm simply saying that people don't protest the crime, they protest a perceived lack of justice.

I do remember people protesting Casey Anthony when she was out on bail. So there are exceptions. But I think at the time there was concern she would get off.
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       01-08-2017, 10:05 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo8290 View Post
Not a bad assumption. Only problem is that the KKK is disobeying what the bible says while ISIS is obeying what the Qur'an says. This is all up to interpretation of course.
So which part of the bible are they disobeying?examples:
Titus 2:9-10
"Slaves are to be submissive to their own masters in everything; they are to be well-pleasing, not argumentative, not pilfering, but showing all good faith, so that in everything they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior. "

Colossians 4:1
"Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven."

Leviticus 25:44-46
"As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly. "

Exodus 21:20-21
“When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money. "

or are you just obeying the parts of the bible that agree with what you already believe and the Clan obeys the parts of the bible that agree with what they already believe?
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       01-08-2017, 10:08 AM Reply   
Some one has to explain to me why killing someone because they are black/white/gay/etc is worse than killing them because you want to take their wallet /want to watch them die/other?
The victim is just as dead. Don't misinterpret me, I'm totally fine with putting them in the ground today. I just don't understand why the reason behind the crime makes it worse.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-08-2017, 10:08 AM Reply   
Just because it's deemed Illegal or a Crime and we throw the book at them and throw away the key. It Dosent fix THE PROBLEM. (Look at Ralph's post to see a list of possible issues) It Dosent heal the distrust in the community. Example. The 9/11 terroists & its mastermind OBL are either all dead or have been killed or brought to justice. Don't your feel better now? Yea I didn't think so. It's a temporary fix.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-08-2017, 10:27 AM Reply   
In my opinion we need to attack, protest, reject. The Lifestyle that these community's seem to be ok with. Example it's NOT ok that Chicago has a murder rate consistant with a war zone. I'm my opinion we have created a environment that shelters protects and even nurtures the bad element. These communities are a living hell for the hard working honest people that can't afford to move out. Imagine having these 4 individuals above as your neighbors. Just imagine living in a Aera where gunfire and murder happen right outside your front door. What kind of kids do you think are gonna come out of that environment.
Thug Life and all that encompass it needs to be dismantled. Starting with people calling it what it is GHETTO
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-08-2017, 10:58 AM Reply   
Did G just become liberal? Ha ha, no, just looked beyond left/right to works/doesn't work.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-08-2017, 11:29 AM Reply   
Ralph: going with your (What works VS what Dosent work) liberal comment. Do you think the liberal policies we have in place, here in the US. Policy's like "Affirmative Action" Are.,,,
A. Are they fair to all Americans?
B. Are working?
C. Should be Left the way they are Or need to be done away with.
Old     (flight007)      Join Date: Mar 2016       01-08-2017, 3:18 PM Reply   
Just had to respond to the comment that "Isis has nothing to do with Islam" Are you freaking kidding me? Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi the leader of Isis has a PHD in Islamic studies. If there were anyone who understands the Quran and can interpret the scriptures it's him. On the the 4 black youths who terrorized the special needs kid. I'm with Darren as far as the labeling goes. I have never liked the definition "hate crime" because at the end of the day regardless if someone killed someone out of anger, emotion, greed or any other motive it does not matter. A crime has been committed and the punishment should be universal. But imagine if you would if this were 4 whites who did this to a special needs black person.- We would have pandemonium on the streets in every major city in the US with Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton leading the way. It's hypocrisy in the highest degree.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-08-2017, 5:13 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
Ralph: going with your (What works VS what Dosent work) liberal comment. Do you think the liberal policies we have in place, here in the US. Policy's like "Affirmative Action" Are.,,,
A. Are they fair to all Americans?
B. Are working?
C. Should be Left the way they are Or need to be done away with.
A. NO
B. NO
C. Done away with.

That's why i say I'm not a liberal, just nobody seems to listen.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-08-2017, 10:44 PM Reply   
^ Ok Ralph well I knew I liked you BTW the liberal party has called and they said you have been kicked off the bus for your above post. Jessi Jackson sent me a email and said your post above is Hate Speech. The NAACP is looking into a law suit againt you. And Al Sharpton says he is going to hold a press conference in the morning for your racist post.
Old     (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-09-2017, 7:24 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhorn View Post
So which part of the bible are they disobeying?examples:
Titus 2:9-10
"Slaves are to be submissive to their own masters in everything; they are to be well-pleasing, not argumentative, not pilfering, but showing all good faith, so that in everything they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior. "

Colossians 4:1
"Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven."

Leviticus 25:44-46
"As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly. "

Exodus 21:20-21
“When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money. "

or are you just obeying the parts of the bible that agree with what you already believe and the Clan obeys the parts of the bible that agree with what they already believe?

No where in there did it say make slaves of non believers, and don't forget to cut their heads off and load it on the internet to intimidate the other non believers to obey.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-09-2017, 10:00 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo8290 View Post
No where in there did it say make slaves of non believers, and don't forget to cut their heads off and load it on the internet to intimidate the other non believers to obey.
Nobody suggested it said that. But it does quite clearly imply slavery is ok and is cool to beat someone to death as long as they survive for a few days after the beating. If you are comparing to Islam then yes, well done, gold star for Christianity, it is slightly less morally **** than Islam.
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       01-09-2017, 3:29 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo8290 View Post
No where in there did it say make slaves of non believers, and don't forget to cut their heads off and load it on the internet to intimidate the other non believers to obey.
Never said it did, but if you are going to say that ISIS is the result of people following the Koran then the KKK is the result of people following the bible.
Old     (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-09-2017, 3:57 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhorn View Post
Never said it did, but if you are going to say that ISIS is the result of people following the Koran then the KKK is the result of people following the bible.

On that note I'm done with this argument and thread all together.
Old     (flight007)      Join Date: Mar 2016       01-09-2017, 9:39 PM Reply   
Here is some truth you won't here in the mainstream media. The majority of Muslims in the world most of them don't read their Koran just like most Christians so called don't read their Bible. To them it's more a preference but not a commitment. That being said, the real Muslims, the ones that are true to Islam....They are aware that the only way you can get into paradise is by becoming a martyr. How does one do that? You die killing the infidel thats how it's done. And if you do, not only will you inherit paradise but your family and extended family will also be ushered into paradise because of your amazing act for Allah. Thats a fact. So tell me again that Isis, Hamas, Boko haram and other Islamic militant groups who are simply living our Islam exactly as their prophet Muhammad did aren't the real Muslims. The media has it backwards, Isis is in fact true Islam right down to the be-headings while shouting Allahu akbar. Sorry for the hi-jack this is simply a subject I am passionate about and have spend quite a bit of time looking into.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       01-10-2017, 6:46 AM Reply   
God works in mysterious ways. God obviously created Islam for a reason. But I've been schooled by xtians many times that we are not capable of comprehending God's logic.
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       01-10-2017, 10:56 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo8290 View Post
On that note I'm done with this argument and thread all together.
I guess you don't hold your belief too strongly if you can't debate about them.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-10-2017, 11:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by flight007 View Post
The majority of Muslims in the world most of them don't read their Koran just like most Christians so called don't read their Bible. To them it's more a preference but not a commitment. That being said, the real Muslims, the ones that are true to Islam....They are aware that the only way you can get into paradise is by becoming a martyr. How does one do that? You die killing the infidel thats how it's done. And if you do, not only will you inherit paradise but your family and extended family will also be ushered into paradise because of your amazing act for Allah. Thats a fact. So tell me again that Isis, Hamas, Boko haram and other Islamic militant groups who are simply living our Islam exactly as their prophet Muhammad did aren't the real Muslims. The media has it backwards, Isis is in fact true Islam right down to the be-headings while shouting Allahu akbar. Sorry for the hi-jack this is simply a subject I am passionate about and have spend quite a bit of time looking into.
Oh well, we can be happy the isn't a lot of real Christians left who read the bible and follow it literally then. Just got to get the Muslims there too. Another 1,000 years should do it. Maybe quicker now we have the internet. Took Christians far too long to start ignoring the inhuman bits of their manual for life.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-09-2017, 5:49 PM Reply   
No Jail Time
Juge sentenced Brittany Covington to PROBATION!

https://www.themaven.net/bluelivesma...lW0d4Gg?full=1

http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...-chicago-teen/
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Old     (wakeslash)      Join Date: Sep 2017       12-09-2017, 7:05 PM Reply   
Welcome to black privilege.

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